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BUUNNI posted:You didn’t mention Argentina at all in your original post. The original post was about how Hezbollah operates throughout South America. Argentina is a country in South America. quote:Why does a terrorist attack committed by an Iranian political group 30 years ago have to do with Israel committing a genocide in 2023? Why conflate the two? That attack is widely understood to have been assisted by Hezbollah, though Hezbollah denies it. quote:And who is responsible for more deaths in South America- the USA or Iran? This question has no relevance to whether Hezbollah is active in South America. Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Nov 9, 2023 |
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Nov 9, 2023 22:31
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Civilized Fishbot posted:The original post was about how Hezbollah operates throughout South America. Argentina is a country in South America. What relevance does an Iranian political group actions in South America 30 years ago have to do with Palestinians being genocided today in Gaza
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Nov 9, 2023 22:39
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Gaza is operating as efficiently as a Nazi extermination camp. Gaza is about 10,000 month. I can't speak to the accuracy of the chart as I believe the average murder rate at Auschwitz was ~20,000/month per wikipedia. Does anyone ITT know better sources than those two I can research?
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Nov 9, 2023 22:40
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I'm personally skeptical that Hezbollah is performing terror attacks in one of the largest countries supportive of Palestine, at a time where they are escalating on the border with Israel, at a time where Israel has been trying to push deranged "Hamas and Hezbollah are going to invade America across the border!!" talking points. I mean sure, it could happen, but it comes off along the lines of the fake recordings or captured hamas soldiers saying "yes I am to be bombing own hospital from own ambulance, am tacfical genius that will be making israel look bad to allies that they respect and cherish greatly"; comes off as too conveniently timed.
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Nov 9, 2023 22:40
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BUUNNI posted:What relevance does an Iranian political group actions in South America 30 years ago have to do with Palestinians being genocided today in Gaza Israel is publicly accusing Hezbollah (who keeps threatening to actually fight on behalf of Palestine) of planning an attack in Brazil (a government that Israel hates, because of its pro-Palestinian politics, so much that they won't let Brazilian-Palestinians leave Gaza). Israel is also claiming responsibility for foiling the alleged attack. It's clearly relevant to Israel/Palestine, whether Israel is bullshitting or not (and there's plenty of precedent for it to go either way) Neurolimal posted:I'm personally skeptical that Hezbollah is performing terror attacks in one of the largest countries supportive of Palestine, at a time where they are escalating on the border with Israel, at a time where Israel has been trying to push deranged "Hamas and Hezbollah are going to invade America across the border!!" talking points. Yeah it's theoretically plausible but it would be so convenient for the Israeli state right now, and the Israeli state has been producing so much bullshit "intelligence," that it's the boy who cried wolf. Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Nov 9, 2023 |
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Nov 9, 2023 22:42
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Neurolimal posted:I'm personally skeptical that Hezbollah is performing terror attacks in one of the largest countries supportive of Palestine, at a time where they are escalating on the border with Israel, at a time where Israel has been trying to push deranged "Hamas and Hezbollah are going to invade America across the border!!" talking points. You don't have to believe Israel, Brazil has confirmed that "On Wednesday, Brazil arrested two people on terrorism charges as part of an operation to take down a suspected Hezbollah cell planning attacks on Brazilian soil." https://www.reuters.com/world/brazil-minister-angered-by-israeli-statement-foiled-hezbollah-attack-2023-11-09/ The actual pushback seems to be Brazil downplaying any Mossad involvement.
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Nov 9, 2023 22:58
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7c Nickel posted:You don't have to believe Israel, Brazil has confirmed that "On Wednesday, Brazil arrested two people on terrorism charges as part of an operation to take down a suspected Hezbollah cell planning attacks on Brazilian soil." Someone who knows Brazil's political landscape better can comment, but it doesn't look like Brazil's Ministry of Justice is in the pocket of Bolsonaro or otherwise would make an explicitly pro-Israeli arrest on trumped-up charges. There must be at least some credibility to claims of a possible Hezbollah terrorist attack. Paladinus fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Nov 10, 2023 |
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Nov 9, 2023 23:09
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Civilized Fishbot posted:Israel is publicly accusing Hezbollah Wow, and has there been a period of time in recent history that Israel’s credibility been good enough to not immediately question the legitimacy of these accusations? quote:Hezbollah and Iran have both denied any involvement. Seems sus, it’s baffling why would anyone believe the words of an intelligence agency belonging to a genocidal state. BUUNNI fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Nov 9, 2023 |
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Nov 9, 2023 23:49
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BUUNNI posted:Wow, and has there been a period of time in recent history that Israel’s credibility been good enough to not immediately question the legitimacy of these accusations? The sarcasm is unwarranted, everyone in this thread is treating the allegation with appropriate skepticism. It's worth discussing even if, I'd say especially if, it's complete bullshit. The accusation alone has very serious diplomatic implications that go directly to each country's efforts to enact/facilitate/disrupt the destruction of Gaza. And now the Brazilian state is validating that it's not complete bullshit.
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Nov 10, 2023 00:11
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Neurolimal posted:At this point the term "cope cage" is a monument to hubris. Similar cages were also the norm in the occupation of Iraq. It was always a term of hubris and ignorance by a particular strain of online war footage enthusiasts.
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Nov 10, 2023 00:12
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Civilized Fishbot posted:The sarcasm is unwarranted, everyone in this thread is treating the allegation with appropriate skepticism. It's worth discussing even if, I'd say especially if, it's complete bullshit. Brazil has definitely not validated Mossad's claims, and you'd know this if you actually read the statements Brazilian authorities have released. Not sure why Israel's claims that were presented without evidence should be taken at face value and discussed at length. They are clearly and shamelessly simply taking advantage of a foreign law enforcement operation to further their genocidal goals. quote:A Polícia Federal repudia as declarações feitas por autoridades estrangeiras a respeito da Operação Trapiche. "The Federal Police repudiates the statements made by foreign authorities regarding Operation Trapiche." Seems like the guys they arrested had $5k dollars cash and were apparently of Lebanese origin. Hardly evidence of transnational islamic terrorist cells masterminded by Iranians. BUUNNI fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Nov 10, 2023 |
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Nov 10, 2023 00:24
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BUUNNI posted:Brazil has definitely not validated Mossad's claims, and you'd know this if you actually read the statements Brazilian authorities have released. I didn't say they validated Mossad's claims period, I said they validated that they're not complete bullshit. There is some actual crime that was planned out, resulting on the Brazilian state arresting these people. I'm sure the Israeli state is exaggerating, if not fabricating, most, if not every, element of everything that happened. They have no incentive not to. quote:Not sure why Israel's claims that were presented without evidence should be taken at face value and discussed at length. They are clearly and shamelessly simply taking advantage of a foreign law enforcement operation to further their genocidal goals. Taken at face value, no. Discussed, yes. It is obviously a big deal for Israel to accuse Hezbollah of plotting an attack in Brazil, at the very least it's a massive event in the diplomatic crisis right now between Brazil and Israel. If you don't want to discuss it, that's fine, you don't even have to tell us why. Or you can keep discussing it and continue to share your thoughts and opinions about it. Either way, it's obviously extremely relevant to the horrors that the Israeli state is wreaking on Gaza. Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Nov 10, 2023 |
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Nov 10, 2023 00:31
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Israel said they would take some territory from Gaza at the end of this. I wonder if they mean they're going to annex Gaza City itself. What would be the point of annexing territory in Gaza without Gaza City?
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Nov 10, 2023 00:37
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Paladinus posted:Someone who know Brazil's political landscape better can comment, but it doesn't look like Brazil's Ministry of Justice is in the pocket of Bolsonaro or otherwise would make an explicitly pro-Israeli arrest on trumped-up charges. There must be at least some credibility to claims of a possible Hezbollah terrorist attack. for one thing, Bolsonaro is no longer in power and the security state was completely unenthusiastic when he floated "maybe we could coup Lula and keep me in charge in minecraft, haha" I'm willing to buy that Hezbollah agents had something planned (whack the ambassador?) but I'm also going to listen a whole lot more to Brazil than to Israel about it e: thanks BUUNNI, phoneposting so I can't dig through the primary sources easily Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Nov 10, 2023 |
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Nov 10, 2023 00:37
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HonorableTB posted:What would be the point of annexing territory in Gaza without Gaza City? The same point as annexing Gaza City - satisfies national revanchists, satisfies "we won't be safe until they're dead" psychopaths, makes long-term increase to Israeli GDP. They just want the land, not the people or the buildings.
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Nov 10, 2023 00:44
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Civilized Fishbot posted:I didn't say they validated Mossad's claims period, I said they validated that they're not complete bullshit. There is some actual crime that was planned out, resulting on the Brazilian state arresting these people. I'm sure the Israeli state is exaggerating, if not fabricating, most, if not every, element of everything that happened. They have no incentive not to. I'm sorry but the statement "validating that it's not complete bullshit" is one of the worst weasel-wordings I have ever encountered. That's not what the word "validate" means. And it certainly is not a "massive event", it's two guys who have been caught up in a law-enforcement operation and they were apparently Lebanese. Let's maybe wait and see the results of Brazil's judicial proceedings before we start claiming there are shocking geopolitical machinations happening around the world that give any credence to the Zionist's current genocide against the people of Gaza. BUUNNI fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Nov 10, 2023 |
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Nov 10, 2023 00:52
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Civilized Fishbot posted:The same point as annexing Gaza City - satisfies national revanchists, satisfies "we won't be safe until they're dead" psychopaths, makes long-term increase to Israeli GDP. They just want the land, not the people or the buildings. This makes a depressing amount of sense, ugh.
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Nov 10, 2023 00:58
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https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...61976#151361976 Israel's Arrow 3 makes first operational missile interception Yaniv Kubovich 1:46 AM The IDF and the Defense Ministry announced early Friday that the Arrow 3 missile defense system conducted its first operational interception on Thursday, shooting down a surface-to-surface missile that was fired at Eilat. The statement went on to say that the interception took place in the Red Sea area, some distance from Israeli territory. The Arrow 3 is the third layer of defense of Israel's air defense system, alongside Iron Dome and David's Sling, and is used to intercept ballistic missiles outside the earth's atmosphere. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 10, 2023 00:59
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BUUNNI posted:I'm sorry but the statement "validating that it's not complete bullshit" is one of the worst weasel-wordings I have ever encountered... I just mean it's not some poo poo they made up from scratch like the fake phone calls. There was some actual incident, some actual "grain of truth" here that they are blowing up into propaganda. Which indicates that it's more likely to be Israel taking advantage of an opportunity more than forcing an opportunity that originally didn't exist whatsoever. The accusation itself is a shocking geopolitical machination, that's why we're discussing it. Except you keep, while discussing it, insisting that it's not worth discussing, and chastising people here for accepting the Israeli state at its word, which nobody is doing. I don't get it, I'm sorry, I just don't get what you're trying to do here. Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Nov 10, 2023 |
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Nov 10, 2023 01:00
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BUUNNI posted:I'm sorry but the statement "validating that it's not complete bullshit" is one of the worst weasel-wordings I have ever encountered. That's not what the word "validate" means. And it certainly is not a "massive event", it's two guys who have been caught up in a law-enforcement operation and they were apparently Lebanese. Let's maybe wait and see the results of Brazil's judicial proceedings before we start claiming there are shocking geopolitical machinations happening around the world that give any credence to the Zionist's current genocide against the people of Gaza. What do you mean by 'and they were apparently Lebanese'?
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Nov 10, 2023 01:04
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Civilized Fishbot posted:I just mean it's not some poo poo they made up from scratch like the fake phone calls. How could you possibly know that before any judicial proceedings have taken place? You haven't even analyzed any of the Brazilian government's press releases nor any reports from any Brazilian journalists. Please provide your sources for your claims.
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Nov 10, 2023 01:05
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guidoanselmi posted:Gaza is operating as efficiently as a Nazi extermination camp. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6314819/ This may help. From figure 1, it appears the peak of the Holocaust was about 500,000 in a month. quote:More broadly, in this 3-month (92 day) period, the data in the graphs indicate that a minimum of 1.32 million victims were murdered by the Nazis, of which 292,000 were murdered by bullets [
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Nov 10, 2023 01:08
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BUUNNI posted:How could you possibly know that before any judicial proceedings have taken place? You haven't even analyzed any of the Brazilian government's press releases nor any reports from any Brazilian journalists. Please provide your sources for your claims. The fact that the Brazilian police arrested people and didn't release a statement saying "we don't know what this is about, it's a complete fabrication" indicates to me that they - the Brazilian state, no friend to Israel - believe that there is some underlying reality that Israel is exploiting, not a purely fictional narrative that Israel is trying to make Brazil treat as true. Here is a source for two people being arrested by Brazil in relation to the Israeli allegations against Hezbollah: https://apnews.com/article/brazil-hezbollah-terrorist-attack-federal-police-b5fe3e7c3ad296bdeaaca7cc1cf62a23 quote:RIO DE JANEIRO (AP) — Authorities in Brazil arrested two people on Wednesday to foil an alleged attack, which the Israeli Prime Minister’s office said was planned by the Lebanese militia Hezbollah. ... Of course I don't know anything, I'm just a jackass on my computer making guesses and getting angry like everyone here. Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Nov 10, 2023 |
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Nov 10, 2023 01:11
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https://www.barrons.com/articles/brazil-angry-as-israel-touts-foiling-of-hezbollah-cell-b9a0701c not a Brazilian outlet because I'm not good at googling in Portuguese but seems consistent with other paywalled reporting: Israel is jumping the gun for a propaganda win and Brazil is very annoyed that they're saying unsubstantiated things about an ongoing investigation
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Nov 10, 2023 01:14
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Google Jeb Bush posted:https://www.barrons.com/articles/brazil-angry-as-israel-touts-foiling-of-hezbollah-cell-b9a0701c It seems to me like there isn't a single "best practice"/"common courtesy" in international diplomacy that Israel won't readily forego, not even out of necessity but even just out of convenience or out of spite. If America stopped being 110% behind Israel at all times then the state might not collapse but it would at least stop pulling poo poo like this!
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Nov 10, 2023 01:23
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HonorableTB posted:Israel said they would take some territory from Gaza at the end of this. I wonder if they mean they're going to annex Gaza City itself. What would be the point of annexing territory in Gaza without Gaza City? When did the Israeli government say they were going to take some territory from Gaza? I can't find anything about that with a quick google, and it doesn't match with the Israeli MO at all. I would not at all expect Israel to actually annex any part of Gaza. There's been a lot of talk of Israel "taking security responsibility" (i.e., a military occupation) over part of the Gaza Strip for an indefinite period, but the political leadership has so far been pretty cagey about any specific plans they might have (assuming, of course, that they actually have any).
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Nov 10, 2023 01:24
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Main Paineframe posted:When did the Israeli government say they were going to take some territory from Gaza? I can't find anything about that with a quick google, and it doesn't match with the Israeli MO at all. They definitely put it out there through government sources. They will take the North as a buffer if the US lets them.
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Nov 10, 2023 01:27
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Yeah I remember it being said by government figures. Can't remember the sources though so take that for whatever it's worth.
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Nov 10, 2023 01:31
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Main Paineframe posted:When did the Israeli government say they were going to take some territory from Gaza? I can't find anything about that with a quick google, and it doesn't match with the Israeli MO at all. “At the end of this war, not only will Hamas no longer be in Gaza, but the territory of Gaza will also decrease.” seems plenty straight forward
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Nov 10, 2023 01:31
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More strikes on hospitals tonight it looks like. https://twitter.com/AJEnglish/status/1722773566494740848 Also video coming out of bombings at Al-Awda and Al-Shifa
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Nov 10, 2023 02:17
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TGLT posted:More strikes on hospitals tonight it looks like. There's horrific footage of a non-exploding bomb being dropped. Some are claiming it's an R9X bladed bomb because people in the vicinity had their limbs hacked off (though maybe this was just the effect of shrapnel in general). The "warning" landed right in the middle of a group of people sleeping in the hospital. Now, people might think that there's some "command and control" centre underneath the hospital. But dropping a bomb like that, preceding a later massive strike does not strike me as wanting to take out any particular individual nor does it strike me as a military necessity or anything remotely proportionate. It joins the massive list of war crimes Israel has perpetrated in the last few weeks. I've marched against the US and the UK at times of unnecessary war for over 20 years and I can't think of a single period where either of those countries has operated with such savagery and impunity in such a short space of time. The accidental bombing of a wedding was big news. I just can't fathom the level of war crimes Israel is perpetrating as an apparent democracy. e: Speaking of democracy: https://x.com/ItaiAknin/status/1722734575527358531?s=20 Ben Gvir created a "militia" and armed them. These people are now stopping Arabs in the street and aggressively questioning them and demanding to see their phones. In the video the people with beer are asking on what authority they're doing this. Hong XiuQuan fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Nov 10, 2023 |
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Nov 10, 2023 02:32
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Hong XiuQuan posted:There's horrific footage of a non-exploding bomb being dropped. Some are claiming it's an R9X bladed bomb because people in the vicinity had their limbs hacked off (though maybe this was just the effect of shrapnel in general). The "warning" landed right in the middle of a group of people sleeping in the hospital. the cleansing of ISIS was an absolutely massive human rights shitshow on a not dissimilar scale and most of the world kind of collectively agreed to just close the book on that whole chapter. I bring this up because that (along with simpler rhetorical purposes) is why Israel is so intent on equating Hamas with ISIS. Like the world will still protest if you go too crazy butchering Palestinians as Israel is aware, but exactly zero people will ever speak up for ISIS.
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Nov 10, 2023 02:46
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Herstory Begins Now posted:the cleansing of ISIS was an absolutely massive human rights shitshow on a not dissimilar scale and most of the world kind of collectively agreed to just close the book on that whole chapter. I bring this up because that (along with simpler rhetorical purposes) is why Israel is so intent on equating Hamas with ISIS. Like the world will still protest if you go too crazy butchering Palestinians as Israel is aware, but exactly zero people will ever speak up for ISIS. Is there any good online reading material on ISIS and the cleanup? I just remember the early days of when they became an international news topic for a bit because of their absolutely brutal killings, so much so that other terror organizations in the region wanted to distance themselves.
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Nov 10, 2023 02:52
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I said come in! posted:Is there any good online reading material on ISIS and the cleanup? I just remember the early days of when they became an international news topic for a bit because of their absolutely brutal killings, so much so that other terror organizations in the region wanted to distance themselves. I do recall one of the dark jokes being made during those times in the Arab world was that Daesh would harass/torture/kill other Muslims, but would just ignore Israel.
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Nov 10, 2023 02:57
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I said come in! posted:Is there any good online reading material on ISIS and the cleanup? I just remember the early days of when they became an international news topic for a bit because of their absolutely brutal killings, so much so that other terror organizations in the region wanted to distance themselves. Guardian in particular did a bunch of good reporting on it and I believe still has it up with no paywall. A lot of it is really patchwork wrt the overall picture, but you basically had an unresolved question about what to do with all of the wives and kids and civilian supporters of ISIS, particularly in and around Raqqa and then two years later that was a mostly 'solved' issue, a couple of large refugee camps of them aside. Much of the brutality was outsourced to Iraqi SF units and PMFs and Syrian SDF/FSA, but much of it also wasn't. Mosul was also a huge shitshow. imo israel equating gazans to hamas to isis is exceptionally gross Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Nov 10, 2023 |
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Nov 10, 2023 03:04
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Herstory Begins Now posted:imo israel equating gazans to hamas to isis is exceptionally gross My thoughts exactly, hamas has not shown themselves to be the brutal butchers that Israel wants us to believe they are. Setting aside western super power racism, and propaganda, they are a freedom fighter group trying to secure independence for Palestinians, their actions come out of desperation, and because no other avenues are available. How Israel chose to respond to that, is entirely on Israel, and no one else and now Israel has to deal with the consequences of that hit to their reputation. But they are going to try to fix that with the most pathetic propaganda imaginable.
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Nov 10, 2023 03:26
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I said come in! posted:My thoughts exactly, hamas has not shown themselves to be the brutal butchers that Israel wants us to believe they are. Setting aside western super power racism, and propaganda, they are a freedom fighter group trying to secure independence for Palestinians, their actions come out of desperation, and because no other avenues are available. How Israel chose to respond to that, is entirely on Israel, and no one else and now Israel has to deal with the consequences of that hit to their reputation. But they are going to try to fix that with the most pathetic propaganda imaginable. due to the aforementioned racism, it doesn't really need to be sophisticated propaganda. ~~~~~ Separate from that, why is this thread not pinned but the Ukraine thread is? Both are current conflicts
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Nov 10, 2023 03:28
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Jaxyon posted:due to the aforementioned racism, it doesn't really need to be sophisticated propaganda. That's the Ukraine charity thread. edit: before you ask the Palestine charity thread is pinned in CSPAM fez_machine fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Nov 10, 2023 |
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Nov 10, 2023 04:28
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lol, I got instantly suspended on Twitter.  The best way to leave that garbage fire hellsite full of people endlessly cheering on genocide. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 10, 2023 09:16
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Herstory Begins Now posted:the cleansing of ISIS was an absolutely massive human rights shitshow on a not dissimilar scale and most of the world kind of collectively agreed to just close the book on that whole chapter. I bring this up because that (along with simpler rhetorical purposes) is why Israel is so intent on equating Hamas with ISIS. Like the world will still protest if you go too crazy butchering Palestinians as Israel is aware, but exactly zero people will ever speak up for ISIS. For sure it was a human rights shitshow. But you look at the time scale, the corridors and waiting for evacuation, the scale of bombing and I'm afraid it's not touching the sides of what Israel is doing to the population it's occupied for >50 years. People did speak up for civilians in those areas btw. It's one of the main reasons why the US went at least to some lengths to genuinely preserve life.
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Nov 10, 2023 09:38
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