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Popete posted:Just finishing the first Eisenhorn book, already ordered the next one. I remember that feeling. I started with the Eisnehorn omnibus, the moved on to the Ravenor, followed by all the Ciaphas Cain omnibuses available at the time. Picked up Inquisition War because of how highly regarded and unique it was, never finished. Ending up reading the ADB Night Lords trilogy when it was released, finished it in one day. The Horus Heresy I listened to on audiotape the first few books and then just dropped off.
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Aug 17, 2018 05:08
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pentyne posted:I remember that feeling. Yeah this all started because I read the first Horus Heresy book and was completely drawn in. Then I started the next book but didn't get very far. Then I found this thread and figured I'd give Eisenhorn a shot and it's even better than Horus Heresy was.
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Aug 17, 2018 07:35
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HH is not a good series - BL went for quantity over quality, and it shows. There are a handful of decent books, but, for the most part, it answers all the questions you didn't know you didn't give a poo poo about.
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Aug 17, 2018 13:10
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Cooked Auto posted:Mitchell did write a pair of books linked to the first edition of the Dark Heresy RPG that were pretty decent and a step way from Flashman in space in terms of tone. Innocence Proves Nothing came out in 2009 and Mitchell was putting out Cain books through 2013. Seems more likely that Black Library pulled the plug, like they did with Gordon Rennie's Gothic War books. Presumably they either weren't selling very well, or the BL guys got the word to quit supporting Dark Heresy they way they had BFG before it. jng2058 fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Aug 17, 2018 |
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Aug 17, 2018 14:25
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jng2058 posted:Innocence Proves Nothing came out in 2009 and Mitchell was putting out Cain books through 2013. Seems more likely that Black Library pulled the plug, like they did with Gordon Rennie's Gothic War books. Presumably they either weren't selling very well, or the BL guys got the word to quit supporting Dark Heresy they way they had BFG before it. Gothic War was also p.deece. I read an interview he did with some BFG fansite and he was like "just wait until the third book comes out!" in response to some plot arc question and I'm just like  .
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Aug 17, 2018 14:49
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Schadenboner posted:Oh poo poo that's right: Scourge the Heretic and Innocence Proves Nothing I think? Yup, that's them. I even got one of them signed by Mitchell.  jng2058 posted:Innocence Proves Nothing came out in 2009 and Mitchell was putting out Cain books through 2013. Seems more likely that Black Library pulled the plug, like they did with Gordon Rennie's Gothic War books. Presumably they either weren't selling very well, or the BL guys got the word to quit supporting Dark Heresy they way they had BFG before it. That might've been it. It could've probably had something to do with the DH's switch from Black Industries to FFG or something and GW being weird about not wanting to give that much backing officially because it was handled by an Outsider. berzerkmonkey posted:HH is not a good series - BL went for quantity over quality, and it shows. There are a handful of decent books, but, for the most part, it answers all the questions you didn't know you didn't give a poo poo about. I think the HH series was a victim of its own popularity during the Kirby era of GW where the higher ups saw an opportunity and the authors just had to deal with it and keep going. The fact they're actually getting close towards the Siege of Terra now in just a couple of books points towards the attitude among the higher ups changing. Cooked Auto fucked around with this message at 14:58 on Aug 17, 2018 |
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Aug 17, 2018 14:55
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Cooked Auto posted:I think the HH series was a victim of its own popularity during the Kirby era of GW where the higher ups saw an opportunity and the authors just had to deal with it and keep going.
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Aug 17, 2018 15:14
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Thanks all for recommendations. I’ve gone with Spear of Shadows by Josh Reynolds - got a relative in hospital and I’m spending a lot of time by the bedside so some good old -adventurous escapism is needed and the AoS setting sounds p cool.
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Aug 17, 2018 16:29
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There are some REALLY good HH books, but most are middling-to-terrible. Most of the bad ones are just retreads and unnecessary to understanding the Heresy arc. This threads super helpful for telling you which ones to read. The dumb 40something book series is actually a really good 15 book series.
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Aug 17, 2018 17:47
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I wonder how long it will be after the Horus Heresy series ends before they start doing Horus Heresy Kai
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Aug 17, 2018 17:57
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What I'd like are some Unity books. I mean, any generic post- or peri-apoc fiction would do for the age of strife but I'd like to hear more about what they talk about in that one Thunder Warriors short story (which I liked and thought it was well-written but apparently it was bad and by a bad author?  ). The actual process of unifying Terra.
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Aug 17, 2018 18:01
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Owlkill posted:Thanks all for recommendations. I’ve gone with Spear of Shadows by Josh Reynolds - got a relative in hospital and I’m spending a lot of time by the bedside so some good old -adventurous escapism is needed and the AoS setting sounds p cool. I still can't ever see myself reading a Age of Sigmar novel. Not to cast shade on your tastes, it's just a combination of loving the Old World/total disinterest in Trademark World.
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Aug 18, 2018 01:52
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Moose-Alini posted:There are some REALLY good HH books, but most are middling-to-terrible. Most of the bad ones are just retreads and unnecessary to understanding the Heresy arc. This threads super helpful for telling you which ones to read. The dumb 40something book series is actually a really good 15 book series. Isn't the typical recommendation something like "Read the first 3 books, then skip around and only read the ones by certain authors"
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Aug 18, 2018 02:32
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Goddamit, if I had to suffer through the Battle for the Abyss and all those Salamander/Dark Angel books, so should everyone else.
Deptfordx fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Aug 18, 2018 |
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Aug 18, 2018 14:47
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Looks like they are finally going to begin the siege. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/08/18/18th-aug-warhammer-fest-europe-live-bloggw-homepage-post-1fw-homepage-post-1/ quote:The Buried Dagger
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Aug 18, 2018 14:50
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Gibfender posted:Looks like they are finally going to begin the siege. They gave it to James Swallow, he of the terrible original Blood Angels books. 
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Aug 18, 2018 14:56
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quote:a new set of books that will follow the greatest conflict mankind has ever known in more detail than ever before. There is absolutely no good reason* that the Siege of Terra should be any longer than a trilogy. Anyone care to guess how many books they're actually going to drag this out for? I'm going to guess 6. Old BL management it would have been at least 10, but I'm feeling optimistic. *I know. Money
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Aug 18, 2018 15:04
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ADB said that the end isn't as far away as people might think. He said it's more than 3 novels but not by a lot.
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Aug 18, 2018 15:08
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Senjuro posted:ADB said that the end isn't as far away as people might think. He said it's more than 3 novels but not by a lot. Yeah I assumed they said “set” rather than “series” deliberately
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Aug 18, 2018 15:10
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Pendent posted:They gave it to James Swallow, he of the terrible original Blood Angels books. Fucks sake, it was my forlorn hope than when it finally got to the home stretch of the series BL would've realised it was best left in the hands of their a tier writers Abnett, ADB, Wraight, even McNeil has his moments. Nothing good jumps to mind when I think of books written by Swallow  Next they'll announce gav Thorpe's writing the next one 
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Aug 18, 2018 15:39
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Here at GW we realised we needed the best to give The Siege of Terra! the climax it deserves. That's why we've spared no expense and hired Kevin J Anderson and Brian Herbert to give the Horus Heresy the ending it deserves.
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Aug 18, 2018 20:21
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Speaking of, I realized I had a bunch of the early Heresy titles lying around on my reader and randomly (checking later on Google apparently very wrongly) thought Horus Rising would be a good place to start, but I just wanted to voice my appreciation for the fact that literally the third chapter is about "Oh by the way, the Imperium? Space Nazis as fuuuuuuuuck."
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Aug 19, 2018 00:39
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I was there, the day horus slew the emperor. What a great loving opening line
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Aug 19, 2018 01:47
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Wait, why is the first book in the series not the best place to start? That was written back when the series was supposed to be... What, 9 or 10 books in length?
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Aug 19, 2018 02:10
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Being an awful nerd I would prefer to read them chronologically, but at the same time I'd also like to not read the impossibly poo poo ones. Since it's 40K I figure 1 of 2 ain't bad, I haven't dipped my brain in schlock in a bit and boy does HH have that in spades. Orv fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Aug 19, 2018 |
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Aug 19, 2018 02:19
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dont treat horus heresy as a series 50 books ain't a series its just a different milieu where things happen you read 30k the same way you read 40k, which is to say that you read the abnett, ADB and wraight books, provisionally maybe some McNeill, and otherwise skip it until or unless you get a good recommendation
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Aug 19, 2018 02:27
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Nah gently caress th-PupsOfWar posted:50 books ain't a series Come again? I think last time I checked there were like 15 which I was down with, jesus loving christ. So noted, thanks. E: Also unfamiliar with Wraight, is he the new ADB "oh poo poo they hired an actual writer" sort of deal? Orv fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Aug 19, 2018 |
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Aug 19, 2018 03:28
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Waroduce posted:I was there, the day horus slew the emperor. That caught my attention the first time around as well, but to be fair, if you know nothing about 40k, that line isn't a spoiler because of the following development with the fake Emperor that killed Sejanus (?). It's just hamfisted foreshadowing
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Aug 19, 2018 04:19
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I really enjoyed it espc because I was familiar with lore. I was like oh poo poo this is after the heresy? Are we working backwards? Wow what POV is this that the speaker was there. I was pretty stoked and I didn't mind the ham-fisted part. Plus I gotta imagine anyone reading the heresy is familiar with the story
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Aug 19, 2018 08:04
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Yeah, I enjoyed it because the mournival also joked about it, iirc What annoyed me was the RAPID plot descent of horus and even faster ostracizing of Loken over the course of only a couple of chapters that really could have used a lot more foundation. Hell, they could have easily spent two more books on that, and instead, it was just some quick "Chaplain Erebus had the ear of the warmaster and became a trusted advisor, lol RIP warmaster" inside a single book
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Aug 19, 2018 10:59
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Ian Watson's Inquisition Wars: good, actually?
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Aug 19, 2018 13:30
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Schadenboner posted:Ian Watson's Inquisition Wars: good, actually? I enjoyed it but might be rose colored goggles. His depiction of the Emperor is one of my favorite though
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Aug 19, 2018 13:57
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I'm currently rereading it (after 15+ years) and loving it. There's a lot of stuff I missed the first time. It's from the wild west of 40k before everything was rigidly defined, but that's part of the charm. Interestingly, here is a Blanche illustration of Jaq, Obspital, and the Harlequin Man:  Sean Connery from Red October isn't the look I imagined for Jaq, but it works.
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Aug 19, 2018 14:24
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moths posted:I'm currently rereading it (after 15+ years) and loving it. wasnt their some inquisitor named Sherlock obi-wan or something.
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Aug 19, 2018 16:21
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That was the inquisitor from the RT book. It was kind of dumb. Ian Watson is much better at doing cool things.
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Aug 19, 2018 16:26
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Dapper_Swindler posted:wasnt their some inquisitor named Sherlock obi-wan or something. Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau - the brightest star in the imperium’s constellation of heroes 
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Aug 19, 2018 17:14
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Orv posted:Speaking of, I realized I had a bunch of the early Heresy titles lying around on my reader and randomly (checking later on Google apparently very wrongly) thought Horus Rising would be a good place to start, but I just wanted to voice my appreciation for the fact that literally the third chapter is about "Oh by the way, the Imperium? Space Nazis as fuuuuuuuuck." But Horus Rising is one of the good books? I thought the consensus was Dan Abnett books were always worth reading.
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Aug 19, 2018 17:27
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Popete posted:But Horus Rising is one of the good books? I thought the consensus was Dan Abnett books were always worth reading. Horus Rising is good but exemplifies Abnett's issues with pacing. And in a 50 book series that is otherwise incredibly slow and overbaked, it's quite clear that the book skims over a time period that deserves more attention. In retrospect, it's obvious that Horus Rising was written as the beginning of perhaps a trilogy. It's unfortunate that we see so little of the Great Crusade or Horus' fall, especially when later authors spend multiple books rehashing the beginning of the betrayal over and over from the perspectives of different chapters. Abnett sort of remedies this later with books that are set far enough away from the uprising that they're able to show more of Great Crusade and explore different ideas, but he's already trapped into that framework. And Horus going from frustrated do-gooder to evil despot in the course of a single fever dream is absurd and forever taints a crucial character. Kaal fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Aug 19, 2018 |
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Aug 19, 2018 20:03
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Popete posted:But Horus Rising is one of the good books? I thought the consensus was Dan Abnett books were always worth reading. Kaal posted:Horus Rising is good but exemplifies Abnett's issues with pacing. And in a 50 book series that is otherwise incredibly slow and overbaked, it's quite clear that the book skims over a time period that deserves more attention. In retrospect, it's obvious that Horus Rising was written as the beginning of perhaps a trilogy. It's unfortunate that we see so little of the Great Crusade or Horus' fall, especially when later authors spend multiple books rehashing the beginning of the betrayal over and over from the perspectives of different chapters. Abnett sort of remedies this later with books that are set far enough away from the uprising that they're able to show more of Great Crusade and explore different ideas, but he's already trapped into that framework. And Horus going from frustrated do-gooder to evil despot in the course of a single fever dream is absurd and forever taints a crucial character. Having finished it last night Kaal is pretty much spot on on its issues. It's a cool book as an intro to 30K, characters I've nominally only seen as bad guys being viewed through the lens of Abnett's (generally pretty good) SM writing. That said, it falls apart in a couple critical places, and has some not quite questionable but definitely unpleasantly stupid character bits. At some point though the reality is that all 30/40K/WHF novels are some level of schlock, and as long as it's not aggressively, offensively bad (hello Gav) then I'm probably going to enjoy just reading about more Space Marine poo poo. I'm easy.Orv fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Aug 19, 2018 |
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Aug 19, 2018 20:14
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imho Horus Rising does a good job of putting Horus on the path toward rebellion, while the next two books do a bad job of transitioning him from rebellious to Evil. At the end of Horus Rising, Horus is...I don't want to say a good guy, but about as good as a guy can be when he has spent most of his life yoked to the sinister ambitions of the Emperor. By the end of False Gods, he's massacring civilians, destroying whole civilizations for the sake of political maneuver, and commanding the assassination of loyalist Army commanders. By the end of Galaxy in Flames, he's butchering his own sons and plotting the Drop Site Massacre. The Interex incident is cool because it breaks down Horus's sense of martial loyalty. You see Horus attempting to defy his father's doctrinal evil and break the cycle of violence represented by the Compliance process. You see him fail at this, largely as a result of his father's refusal to share vital information or prepare the Primarchs for any non-warlike existence. This produces immense self-doubt and doubt in the institutions that created him. Great recipe for violence, there. Horus, being a freer thinker than most of his brothers, would naturally start thinking of rebellion once liberated from the myth of the Emperor's infallibility. The way this could have worked is that Horus should have initiated a well-intentioned, secular, and justified rebellion against his father, then turned to the Chaos Gods in desperation as war broke out and he suffered some initial setbacks at the hands of the loyalist Primarchs. Especially if some of those setbacks involved particularly brutal loyalist forces like the Rout or the Iron Hands escalating the conflict. Horus could have started out with some more limited rebellious goal (forming a breakaway state maybe?) and then been forced into total war when it became clear that the Emperor's megalomania would never allow this. He should not have immediately jumped to "I hate my father, therefor I will kill him, become the new Emperor, and kill any of my brothers who support him". I understand one issue is that the Drop Site Massacre is a definitive heel-turn moment, and was preestablished in canon. But they could have retconned that to happen later, or had it arranged by Lorgar and maybe Kurze without Horus's involvement. Popete posted:But Horus Rising is one of the good books? I thought the consensus was Dan Abnett books were always worth reading. its good the guy you quoted is saying it's good PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Aug 19, 2018 |
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Aug 19, 2018 21:00
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