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I'm channeling my inner LogicNinja  code:
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Dec 24, 2015 05:09
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 14:19 |
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Its nice when the game just hands you a free win.  http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/InternetKraken/morgue-InternetKraken-20151224-055016.txt You can't really tell but that character got handed tons of manuals in a bunch of skills I wanted to raise. As a result, I had a glut of exp to spend. I also got the regeneration demonspawn perk. Now combine that with an executioner's axe and Qazlal storms and the result is a blender of death that never needs to stop. I chopped my way through the game and barely ever needed to rest, because killing more stuff to get more HP from regen was faster. I was able to cut through everything so quickly that I beat my previous high score, and that was set during the double damage melee bug. First time I've gotten over 20 million points and it almost put my win percentage at 10%, so I feel pretty good right now! 
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Dec 24, 2015 06:58
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Well, was going to do a gargoyle hybrid after starting as an EE, but I found Vehumet early and decided to go conjurer. Anyway, Never seen this one before and I got it on D7. It feels pretty crazy right now on a Gargoyle. Edit: This robe is absurd. Must remind myself to play this slow, but I have 21 AC in this thing and haven't hit Lair. Matlock Birthmark fucked around with this message at 07:49 on Dec 24, 2015 |
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Dec 24, 2015 07:23
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Since when can Swamp Worms leave the water??!?
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Dec 24, 2015 09:26
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Superterranean posted:Since when can Swamp Worms leave the water??!? About a day, maybe two.
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Dec 24, 2015 10:07
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I think it's a good change, but boy was it scary when I opened the Lair vault with the worms and swamp worms and whatnot. Especially since I am a DECj. It's been an interesting DECj run - found Fencer's Gloves and a +8 flaming longsword, so I've been doing more melee than I would feel at all comfortable with normally - except that I also have an amulet of regeneration. Regen is so much more than just downtime elimination. The effective increase in HP, during a fight when you need it most, is amazing.
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Dec 24, 2015 10:53
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Internet Kraken posted:Oh cool, potions of flight are even more rare to make that pointless change more annoying. Why are potions of degeneration even a thing anyways? Instead of these bandaid measures to counteract the removal of the old bandaid "rMut they really should just scrap malmut as a monster spell and replace it with tempmut or another thematic spell on a monster by monster basis. Give neqox and shining eyes tempmut, cacodemons something else besides dig to screw with player positioning (resistible blink player spell?) and Orbs of Fire the effect of Cerebovs sword as a spell or concentrated negative rF muts similar to demonspawn corruptors.
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Dec 24, 2015 13:41
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Darox posted:and Orbs of Fire the effect of Cerebovs sword as a spell or concentrated negative rF muts similar to demonspawn corruptors. You are a monster.
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Dec 24, 2015 15:03
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So I've ascended a few melee'rs, but haven't had any luck with casters yet. I've recently fired up a DsFE of Veh after splatting a series of DE's and MF's. So far, he's picked up claws 2 and mana shield muts. My question is - do the claws mean that it would be worth my while to focus unarmed for a little bit so I have a fallback when I run out of mana? Also, does getting the mana shield mut early mean I'm more likely to get the 2nd or 3rd tier of that mutation, which sound like they would be great on a blaster?
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Dec 24, 2015 15:11
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If the devs are going to change malmute maybe change it so it is a mixture of temporary and permanent mutations? Something like 10 to 30% permanent based on what monster it is - so higher for orbs of fire and lower for neqoxecs. That way you still get the possibility of mutations that impact your gameplay in interesting ways, but it is not quite as ridiculous as it is currently with no rmut. rj - yeah I'd say claws makes UC a solid backup plan. I don't really know the rules for ds mutations, except that you tend to get the T3 muts later. You'll get them eventually though. ThermosAquaticus fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Dec 24, 2015 |
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Dec 24, 2015 15:17
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Just make it all temporary mutations. Otherwise a mutation-heavy character isn't really viable going through postgame without Zin, because it seems like they're making cure mut potions the current answer to malmutate.
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Dec 24, 2015 17:11
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Playing more Hubris Man this Christmas Eve if you want to come watch me lose half my health to a bolt of draining! Floodkiller fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Dec 25, 2015 |
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Dec 24, 2015 18:14
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IronicDongz posted:Just make it all temporary mutations. Otherwise a mutation-heavy character isn't really viable going through postgame without Zin, because it seems like they're making cure mut potions the current answer to malmutate. Yeah, these changes basically kill mutated characters once you get into extended/Zot. Cause throw around whatever bullshit you want about LOS managment, you are not going to kill an orb of fire fast enough to keep it from malmutating you. If cure mutation is going to be common enough that malmutate isn't much of an issue, what's the point of it existing in the first place??? This whole thing reeks of poor planning.
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Dec 24, 2015 18:48
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Just go Gozag and hire those OOFs to mutate your enemies.
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Dec 24, 2015 18:52
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By the way, bringing back my whole "tomb blows" avenue of discussion: If you by random chance get one stat drained over and over again there's not really any way you can prevent getting a stat drained down real low! It's not like there's a potion that cures this anymore. Like now I basically have to leave tomb and just do something else for a while(but not a branch with enemies that can drain int) if I don't want to become brainless.
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Dec 24, 2015 19:01
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Hey maybe I'll finally get another 3 game streak going!quote:676 InternetKraken the Magician (level 7, -5/45 HPs) Oh well nevermind 
Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Dec 24, 2015 |
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Dec 24, 2015 19:05
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Replace Malmutate with Contaminate, imo.
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Dec 24, 2015 19:48
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Has any thought been given to shuffling around some of the skills between Arcane Marksman and Warper? I ask because I'm killing off a bunch of Ogre Warpers, and the presence of Portal Projectile in the Warper starting book doesn't make any sense to me. Warpers don't start with any ranged weapons (not counting five single-use tomahawks), but one of their unique starting spells is only usable in conjunction with ranged weapons. It seems like it would make sense to take Portal Projectile out of the Warper starting book and move it where it makes sense, the Arcane Marksman starting book. AM is such a poo poo background that you could probably do this without any changes to the starting book, but if you want to balance it drop out Gell's Gravitas (fits better elsewhere) or Leda's Liquefaction (does anybody make good use of this). Then adjust Warper to be less random collection of translocation spells and more translocations damage dealer and escape specialist. Swap out Portal Projectile for Gell's Gravitas (which I understand is now fairly good damage). I'd also like to find a way to get Force Lance in there, probably by dropping Shroud of Golubria (already available as a Skald, and fits with moving toward keeping distance and casting damage spells) . You'd end up with something like: Warper Apportation (Lvl 1) Blink (Lvl 2) Gell's Gravitas (Lvl 3) Teleport Other (Lvl 3) Passage of Golubria (Lvl 4) Force Lance (Lvl 5) Arcane Marksman Corona (Lvl 1) Slow (Lvl 2) Portal Projectile (Lvl 2) Inner Flame (Lvl 3) Cause Fear (Lvl 4) Leda's Liquefaction (Lvl 4) This would have the effect of bumping the Warper spellbook up to 18 total spell levels, which puts it right at the top of the starting books (I think it exactly matches the level progression of the Book of Flames), but I don't think it would unbalance anything because the spells are fairly situational. It also lowers the total spell levels of the AM book by one, but I think AM actually comes out better with Portal Projectile than with Gell's. I'm sure I've overlooked something, and this would totally unbalance two classes nobody plays, but whatever. It's all actually motivated by wanting to guarantee my Ogre has early Portal Projectile and Large Rocks.
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Dec 24, 2015 20:28
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Also playing today, off and on with my Goblin Hunter of Pewpew. https://crawl.s-z.org/#watch-Shinino Of course, I IMMEDIATELY die. 
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Dec 24, 2015 20:49
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Won't more cure mutation potions lead to more mutation roulette in a given game? I'm much more likely to roll the dice if I know i can hit the reset button more often, and later on the malmute makes it so people can't just sit on a huge pile of ridiculous mutations forever. I personally like this and think it will inject more randomness into the game; why are people treating malmute like the end of the world near the end of the game? If you're that concerned just horde your potions until you need them, and if you prefer to gamble eat all the purple and cross your fingers!
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Dec 24, 2015 21:18
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What's the fun in playing mutation roulette if you can't actually keep the results from it? All it takes is one really bad mutation to make you want to reroll, so its hard enough to justify keeping them. The permanence of mutations makes them a more significant part of your character. Making it so they are both gained and lost incredibly easily takes all that away. It also opens up the avenue for a player to be RNG screwed in yet another way because the game just decided to not spawn any cure mutation potions. That could happen before, but you weren't supposed to need them because mutations could usually be avoided. Now its just dumb luck.
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Dec 24, 2015 21:24
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 did this loving shard shrike summoned on me by the powers of hell really just do 50 loving damage through 34 AC, 38 EV, repel missile and rC+. right as I was running away from Antaeus because he did like half my HP in one attack even though I had maxed out fighting
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Dec 24, 2015 21:35
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IronicDongz posted:
Throw Icicle is only 40% resistable, 60% of the damage ignores resistance! Having rC+ means you take 80% of the 3d30 damage from a shard shrike's icicle instead of the 50% you'd expect. The more you know! Edit: and since AC and EV are random rolls, and repel missiles will sometimes do nothing, and Shard Shrikes move at ludicrous speed, sometimes they'll just throw 100+ damage at you if the dice fall against your favor and there's nothing you can do about it. Shrikes are serious business. They also have as much Hit Dice as Cerebov because gently caress you. Dee Ehm fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Dec 24, 2015 |
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Dec 24, 2015 21:47
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Internet Kraken posted:What's the fun in playing mutation roulette if you can't actually keep the results from it? All it takes is one really bad mutation to make you want to reroll, so its hard enough to justify keeping them. The permanence of mutations makes them a more significant part of your character. Making it so they are both gained and lost incredibly easily takes all that away. It also opens up the avenue for a player to be RNG screwed in yet another way because the game just decided to not spawn any cure mutation potions. That could happen before, but you weren't supposed to need them because mutations could usually be avoided. Now its just dumb luck. This seems a bit extreme. Early/mid game there is 0 threat of malmute; the only way a character is going to be mutated is if they choose to be by getting down with the purple or encounter a really unlucky hostile summon. Previously, the most reliable way to avoid a crippling early mutation was to not play with the purple at all, which is silly. Purple is in the early/mid game to add a bit of craziness for players who want to roll the dice and spice things up. There is currently very little incentive roll these dice; perhaps you'll get a ridiculous mutation set that allows you to face roll the game until branch ends, or perhaps you'll get teleportitis and your game is over. As it stands now, the chance of getting +2 int and a single level of a random scale color isn't worth risking death by beserkitis because you don't see your first cure mut potion until Elf 3. Now, you can roll those dice and even if you get a nasty malmute, you're much more likely to either have or be able to find a cure mot potion before it ends you. This seems more interesting to me than 'Lol, you touched the purple and now you die because you probably can't get rid of it before it kills you." Late game when malmute actually becomes an issue it's the same deal. If malmute scares the piss out of you then you can just stock up on cure mut potions before heading into it. In a normal 3 rune game, an unlucky character might encounter 10 orbs of fire, so between cure mut potions and random mutation potions the effects of those should be easy to mitigate. Same with extended; the only serious threat of malmute is cacodemons and if you think a single bad mutation could end you just see above and horde potions. By the time you encounter them, shining eyes are jokes and die to a single hound(you do have a thousand ways to access summons for a reason), nequoxes are nearly the same deal, and regardless a normal 3 rune game is not going to throw these things at except via an unlucky hostile summon(also rare in early/mid game, as mentioned above). However, if a player wants to gamble they can do so more freely now and it's their choice if they risk extended without cure mut potions. Want to try and get a crazy set of awesome mutations? Go for it; you can always fix it if it goes poorly. Just be sure that by the time you really needs those potions you still have them. Unless you're upset that you can no longer get crazy lucky and carry around a pile of 15 good mutations and -2 int and never have to worry about that changing, in which case I really can't feel bad about this. Characters get crazy-powerful enough as it is; without the threat of permanent loss of good mutations there is no reason to ever have to worry about doing more than mashing tab through extended. But that said I think this will still overall result in more characters ascending as people will be more likely to roll the dice, and therefor be more likely to acquire a crazy mutation set when it matters the most, the early/mid game.
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Dec 24, 2015 22:18
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That's a whole lot of words for something you don't know much about apparently. I eat the purple in literally every game I can, without cMut, because its fun. I can count the number of times this has actually killed me on one hand. It can make the game easier, or it can make it harder. The really bad mutations usually are only going to kill you in the end game areas anyways. Most of the time it doesn't change much but its a fun gamble. The fun comes from the fact that the results can't be easily undone. Why should I risk gambling when my mutations are gonna inevitably be lost anyways? If I wanted to have constantly changing mutations, I'd worship Xom of Jiyva. Now the only way to enjoy having mutations permanently is to eat a bunch of purple until you get something good and then join Zin, which is pretty ridiculous from a thematic standpoint. I don't see why you draw issue with the player having good mutations in the first place since its no more broken than randomly finding a cool piece of gear with great properties. VVV This is what I mean about not knowing what you're talking about. Orbs of fire are huge damage tanks with malmutate that regularly spawn in Zot. You cannot avoid being mutated by them through anything other than dumb luck. You're going to pick up bad mutations from them now. Summoners can bog them down with powerful summons, but most characters aren't summoners. Spectral weapon always positions itself to the side of you since it can't attack without you attacking, so saying you blocked malmutate with it makes zero sense. And then there's hell effects giving you red glow which can't be avoided by anything no matter what. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Dec 24, 2015 |
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Dec 24, 2015 22:51
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That seems awfully angry, especially since I don't take issue with having a pile of good mutations...pretty sure that is the only reason I have ever won the game. But you are making malmute out to be some insane end game effect that ruins you the moment you encounter it, but to be honest even before the amulets were removed I barely ever used them. Usually they were one of the first things I would toss end game because los and summons greatly reduce its threat. To be fair I use spectral weapon on almost all my characters who find it so malmute is even less of a threat, but even then I never really feared it and it has, to my knowledge, NEVER killed me in postgame. But if your argument boils down to, "I am upset with how things are changing because I can no longer stack 15 good mutations with near 0 threat of ever losing them", then I guess you are right, this change sucks. But otherwise it seems like a good thing and I look forward to it.
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Dec 24, 2015 23:04
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I sorta feel like removing rMut and then making cMut more common misses the point for everyone. It removes some of the increased danger from malmutate but also makes mutation roulette less interesting when its easier to reset a bad mut list... and more transient since you're going to lose all your good muts in extended anyways, if not directly from malmutate, then from having to quaff cure mute to get rid of the crippling ones. Purple roulette isn't about getting some stacked deck with really lucky good mutations anyways, its about playing until you know when to quit, because you've got something really neat to play around like innate clarity or fire resist or claws 3, and stopping before you ruin it and managing the bad side effects you picked up on the way. Either way, this current compromise doesn't make mutation any more tactical and it still seems like such an awkward mechanic to still have in the game. Everywhere else we've moved away from monsters with these sorts of strategic damage, like item destruction / corrosion. Why is mutation still around?
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Dec 24, 2015 23:34
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Quit... eating purple? I don't get it.
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Dec 24, 2015 23:39
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I still truly think that strategic benefits or drawbacks should only be tied to strategic decisions, not tactical ones(ex: you can no longer get the permanent strategic drawback of having your items corroded via tactical misplays with oozes), and as such permanent mutations both good and bad should only come from eating/quaffing the purple. Enemy malmutators can be changed to either provide temporary malmutations, or other unrelated debuffs.
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Dec 24, 2015 23:43
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SirSamVimes posted:Quit... eating purple? I don't get it. Mutation roulette is a fun risk though which is why I play it even when it doesn't benefit me much. The recent mutation changes just make it less interesting, along with making the whole game more annoying. IronicDongz posted:I still truly think that strategic benefits or drawbacks should only be tied to strategic decisions, not tactical ones(ex: you can no longer get the permanent strategic drawback of having your items corroded via tactical misplays with oozes), and as such permanent mutations both good and bad should only come from eating/quaffing the purple. Enemy malmutators can be changed to either provide temporary malmutations, or other unrelated debuffs. I agree with this. Alternatively, do what was suggested earlier and make malmutators stack contamination instead. This would still lead to mutations with bad play and also is nerf too contamination stacking spells like haste, which I know a lot of devs don't like being so strong. Right now we're just going from one bad system to another.
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Dec 24, 2015 23:46
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SirSamVimes posted:Quit... eating purple? I don't get it. code:
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Dec 25, 2015 00:03
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But if you change malmutate to be temporarily negative or glow, it's even easier to mitigate it and then you're even kore likely to end up with a permanent stack of good mutations. If the only danger of malmutate is, "This might temporarily reduce your good mutation count from 15 to 6", then how is it even a threat? You gain exp so fast late game that even the crazy stars are barely an annoyance to most characters. If you hate it so much don't eat purple and always have a stack of cure mut for end game? Guess I just know nothing about the game though and have only lucked my way to never having it gently caress me over end game. I am sad when I get teleportitis and have to sac good muts to remove it, but it doesn't make me froth at the mouth in anger. Guess it is just different styles though.
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Dec 25, 2015 00:11
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Internet Kraken posted:
So don't do Zot until you've completed the rest of the game and come prepared with cure mutation? I wasn't aware there was a mutation that inflicted instant death before cure could be quaffed, but like you said I must not know anything about the game. And I use spears near exclusively with spectral weapon so yeah, it's easy to dodge it that way. Person Dyslexic fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Dec 25, 2015 |
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Dec 25, 2015 00:17
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Hey, how do I actually use footv? Every time I've looked at it I've just gotten confused e: figured it out, but man am I not a fan of console crawl Person Dyslexic posted:But if you change malmutate to be temporarily negative or glow, it's even easier to mitigate it and then you're even kore likely to end up with a permanent stack of good mutations. Also "even more" implies that it's easy to get a bunch of good mutations and no meaningful bad ones, which is not my experience. LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Dec 25, 2015 |
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Dec 25, 2015 00:55
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Malmutate should be changed to a permanent small stacking increase in the butts language. Too much Malbuttate and butt hard butt read
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Dec 25, 2015 02:49
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Finished the Hubris Archmage!code:Tl;dr wear harm you babies.
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Dec 25, 2015 03:10
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Floodkiller posted:Harm is the best amulet, because I was able to Shatter/Firestorm away all the mutators through Hell/Pan in one shot before they could even touch me (though getting the Mutation Resistance mutation helped lock them in). Once I got Necromutation up, I waltzed through Tomb and two zigs before I got bored and went to win (and almost died to Tiamat, who I saw for the first time in a long while, because I sat channeling next to her for 30 turns). Wearing harm in extended, I'd be more concerned about Hellfire / Torment damage than mutations. Does it increase damage from Torment too? Terrifying.
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Dec 25, 2015 03:34
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Dee Ehm posted:Wearing harm in extended, I'd be more concerned about Hellfire / Torment damage than mutations. Does it increase damage from Torment too? Terrifying. Nope, Torment is unaffected by Harm. Honestly, the only thing that caused me hassle was flying enemies, because Shatter didn't kill them fast enough. However, they still died to LCS/Firestorm in those cases, or I just reset the fight with some Controlled Blinks.
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Dec 25, 2015 03:50
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So I've sacrificed evocations to Ru. How am I supposed to get through the translucent rock walls of Slime? They removed Ctele, blink doesnt work. I have -Wiz from Ru, too. it seems like my only options are... LRD? Shatter? Orb of destruction? I am not even sure. I trained earth up a bit and used a potion of brilliance, and LRD does not destroy the walls. I don't see getting shatter or OOD up as a reality. I suppose I could go spend infinite time in Abyss or Pand to level them but that sounds incredibly lame just to get through a wall. e: after clearing all of slime to level earth, with a potion of brilliance, my spell power for LRD is only ## mitztronic fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Dec 25, 2015 |
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Dec 25, 2015 04:16
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 14:19 |
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Drag a deep troll earth mage or Jorgrun all the way down there.
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