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PlasticAutomaton posted:Man after doing the snoozefests that were Magic DPS and Tank, the Ranged DPS role quest is real fuckin' good. I think the role quests very much come down to if you're into the story they tell, because I actually found the caster role quests great, while ranged DPS was kind of a whiff. I think my main problem with ranged DPS was that the person bringing up issues about Hien's leadership turning out to be a con artist means that they kinda just throw out the fact that she's totally right. I love both sides of that story, and I think it's great that you can put a hot-reading spirit medium into a fantasy setting and there's genuine uncertainty about if she's legit, because 'spirit medium' is far from the weirdest thing around. But put them both in one story in the way they did and they just eat each other.
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Feb 14, 2022 02:55
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Late to this but Hades is such a Dark knight part of his personal storyline you go through involves him creating hosed up shadows of the ones he loved, some of which do not actively work towards his personal goals because of his emotional trauma and connections to them and he dies serving out his at least 15k year long oath to save them all by slaying us, no matter his mixed feelings about it at that point because he is a slave to that goal. He's the most DRK you can be.
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Feb 14, 2022 03:24
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Jetrauben posted:Actually, now that I think about it, logically familiars in "present day" Etheirys are generally extensions of their creators, right? They're Stands. They may sometimes have a degree of autonomy and independent awareness but their creators generally treat them like tools because they are just forks of their maker's will. Some fey even indicate they have a psychic link until it's severed. the ancients didn't have to pay for retainers but our sundered asses got no choice
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Feb 14, 2022 05:33
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The Caster role quests annoyed me for one very petty reason: Mr Priest, when told the invalid mentioned him by name, says "I don't know why he would talk about me or Pope Thordan", I was all set for the beautiful detective moment of pointing out we never said he mentioned the Elfpope, and instead we immediately get an Echo vision of his guilt instead.
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Feb 14, 2022 06:09
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Bruceski posted:The Caster role quests annoyed me for one very petty reason: Mr Priest, when told the invalid mentioned him by name, says "I don't know why he would talk about me or Pope Thordan", I was all set for the beautiful detective moment of pointing out we never said he mentioned the Elfpope, and instead we immediately get an Echo vision of his guilt instead. My problem with them was that I think they had the least sympathetic victims. And that includes vs. the collaborationists!
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Feb 14, 2022 06:30
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OddObserver posted:My problem with them was that I think they had the least sympathetic victims. And that includes vs. the collaborationists! That too. And the collaborators were pretty dang sympathetic, that's why Fordola's been an interesting character this whole time. Thought the idea of freedom was so hopeless that they did what they felt they had to to survive.
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Feb 14, 2022 06:40
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OddObserver posted:My problem with them was that I think they had the least sympathetic victims. And that includes vs. the collaborationists! It would have helped if we actually saw innocent priests get discriminated against.
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Feb 14, 2022 06:45
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Hellioning posted:It would have helped if we actually saw innocent priests get discriminated against. If you haven't, you should do the Scholasticate quests. A lot of the stuff the caster role quests dealt with is a continuation of stuff introduced there.
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Feb 14, 2022 07:00
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The central problem of the Caster quests is we've seen enough treatment of Ishgard in-depth that the amount of time allowed for a single role questline just does not add up, and as a result its developments feel decidedly hollow and barebones. We don't even actually learn much about the doctrinal issues in play, especially since we largely haven't actually seen any evidence of an Ishgardian crisis of faith or a sympathetic core to the Church's doctrines. We're just told there is one, even though most of our experiences with Ishgardian theocracy are decidedly negative.
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Feb 14, 2022 07:23
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sweet geek swag posted:If you haven't, you should do the Scholasticate quests. A lot of the stuff the caster role quests dealt with is a continuation of stuff introduced there. It also has my favorite use of the Echo in the game, where you don't get a vision at all, but bluff that you already have to get someone to confess.
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Feb 14, 2022 07:28
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Cleretic posted:It also has my favorite use of the Echo in the game, where you don't get a vision at all, but bluff that you already have to get someone to confess. Ah yes, the Krile Maneuver.
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Feb 14, 2022 08:30
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sweet geek swag posted:If you haven't, you should do the Scholasticate quests. A lot of the stuff the caster role quests dealt with is a continuation of stuff introduced there. This is why I disliked the caster role quests. They felt like they covered the exact same material as the Scholasticate quests without really adding anything new. Just more ‘Ishgard being Ishgard’.
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Feb 14, 2022 09:14
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Lord_Magmar posted:I'm pretty sure Venat literally just supercharged the crystal, not that it changed the magic spell it does. So the Scions came back because you called them back, Venat's supercharge maybe lasted that long. But you can probably call them say, from anywhere on Ethierys if you yourself are there. I think Venat specifically gave the crystal the ability to create matter - i.e. turn the Scions from bodyless spirits back to people with bodies (and same with Emet Selch/Hythlodaeus). The crystal on its own can just summon people to you (but people who already physically exist somewhere). So that's the distinction. ImpAtom posted:No, Hades in his own twisted way was doing exactly that. That's the entire point. His viewpoint was that he was doing the exact same things they were doing in Elpis, destorying the malformed so they could be created in a better way. He genuinely believed it was the only path available to rescuing his people and was willing to do anything and stand against anyone to do it. The fact that you eventually broke his resolve and proved him wrong didn't change that was who he was. Someone willing to do anything and everything from what they thought was right, even if other people (correctly) considered them a monster for it. Hades realized pretty early that the new sundered people had value, though. He was in denial about it (largely because of what it implied about his own actions), but he definitely didn't just have unfaltering conviction until you came along. Long before the events of Shadowbringers, he had already reached a point where he was having doubts (and on some level probably realized that the sundered people were people with value), but there was just too big of a sunk cost (plus the fact that admitting this would reframe his past actions as atrocities). Gaius is better in some ways and worse in others. He has less of an excuse for not realizing that killing a bunch of people is bad (since he's a person himself of the same nature of those he hurt), but the magnitude of his actual actions (and the importance of his role in them) is significant less than Emet Selch's. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Feb 15, 2022 |
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Feb 14, 2022 23:41
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Cleretic posted:I think the role quests very much come down to if you're into the story they tell, because I actually found the caster role quests great, while ranged DPS was kind of a whiff. How is she right? Her basic pitch was a mix of "gently caress you for having your families come back alive" and "how come you didn't summarily execute Yotsuyu when she was an amnesiac?"
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Feb 15, 2022 08:51
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sweet geek swag posted:If you haven't, you should do the Scholasticate quests. A lot of the stuff the caster role quests dealt with is a continuation of stuff introduced there. didn't the scholasticate quest reveal that the church kept children in secret lightless basements where their only purpose was to be living mycrimes.txt, only to kill them when it's time to get new children to carry on the oral history of their atrocities?
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Feb 15, 2022 22:52
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a cartoon duck posted:didn't the scholasticate quest reveal that the church kept children in secret lightless basements where their only purpose was to be living mycrimes.txt, only to kill them when it's time to get new children to carry on the oral history of their atrocities? Orphaned lowborn, specifically, but yes. The only person that has any comeuppance from this is the person who was one of them and tried to expose this to the greater public.
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Feb 15, 2022 23:36
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Cleretic posted:I think the role quests very much come down to if you're into the story they tell, because I actually found the caster role quests great, while ranged DPS was kind of a whiff. I know Something Awful hates Hien for being a cosmic plaything, but saying that he should have let her and her mob ritually sacrifice the conscripted domans that he spent his political capital to save to the blasphemy is a little silly
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Feb 15, 2022 23:46
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People can have legitimate anger that deserves examination and fair consideration but if you start pulling some dumb bad poo poo due to that anger all bets are off.
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Feb 15, 2022 23:50
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pulled up to that gremlin at the beginning of the ranged dps role quests and "boss you killed a child" resonates in my head
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Feb 15, 2022 23:57
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Argas posted:People can have legitimate anger that deserves examination and fair consideration but if you start pulling some dumb bad poo poo due to that anger all bets are off. yeah it's pretty explicit that what the antagonist of the Ranged DPS questline wants is monstrous and selfish. It's one thing to go "it's unjust my family didn't come back from the war and yours did," it is very much another to go "therefore the gods demand we murder the people who did come back so everyone can be miserable equally."
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Feb 16, 2022 00:10
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Kyrosiris posted:Orphaned lowborn, specifically, but yes. It's those orphaned lowborn students who get harrassed by the common citizens in that quest
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Feb 16, 2022 00:31
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Jetrauben posted:yeah it's pretty explicit that what the antagonist of the Ranged DPS questline wants is monstrous and selfish. I didn't think I needed to clarify that I wasn't standing by her wanting to murder innocent people, but here we go: I do not stand by her wanting to murder innocent people. I was saying that her criticisms of Hien had a point, and the fact that she's also a charlatan shouldn't delegitimize those criticisms, and yet in the context of the story it does.
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Feb 16, 2022 00:48
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Cleretic posted:I didn't think I needed to clarify that I wasn't standing by her wanting to murder innocent people, but here we go: I do not stand by her wanting to murder innocent people. They're completely inextricable. Her base criticism is that they should have murdered an amnesiac.
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Feb 16, 2022 00:51
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Cleretic posted:I didn't think I needed to clarify that I wasn't standing by her wanting to murder innocent people, but here we go: I do not stand by her wanting to murder innocent people. No, what I mean is there's really no concrete, valid criticisms of Hien other than those. She doesn't criticize Hien's refusal to hold Yotsuyu's trafficker accountable, nor does she criticize his general resistance to rocking the boat. Even her condemnation of Hien about Yotsuyu is that he didn't murder her when she was amnesiac and defenseless. Her entire condemnation is of Hien's better nature, not his mistakes as a leader - she's mad that he showed mercy to a defeated and helpless woman. She's the voice of traditional Doma, the purity ethics and patriarchy and desire to bury unpleasant truths, not the criticism of Hien's culpability with it. Any discussion of The Yotsuyu Plot keeps hitting the fundamental problem of her entire plot being built on a bad evocation of sex trafficking that the story uses to justify a character being borderline genocidally tyrannical that always leaves a moral bad taste in one's mouth. It's not good to set up a situation of "justice for a sex trafficking victim or justice for her victims?" because, generally speaking, trafficking victims do not rise to the highest positions of government authority. Creating such a moral dilemma is highly artificial and exists largely for pathos. Hell, she pretty explicitly conflates the returning conscripts with Yotsuyu herself. Both are viewed by her as impure offenses to the kami for having been allowed to live. Hien is Allowing Corruption into Doma, in her view, and he needs to violently purge it by summary execution. Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Feb 16, 2022 |
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Feb 16, 2022 00:59
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a cartoon duck posted:didn't the scholasticate quest reveal that the church kept children in secret lightless basements where their only purpose was to be living mycrimes.txt, only to kill them when it's time to get new children to carry on the oral history of their atrocities?  I can’t believe I put those quests off.
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Feb 16, 2022 03:46
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I never really understood that reveal since it seems like entrusting your darkest secrets to a forsaken child who hates you and spent the last twenty years in an oubliette seems like a great way for the new pope to find out that the Church's hidden secret is either "your mother is a whore" or "all rats are secretly very small dragons; I know because my friend Mr. Mixies who lives in the walls tells me so."
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Feb 16, 2022 03:49
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I went in to the Scholasticate quests expecting comedy, since they have that investigator introduced in the first Hildibrand arc, and oh boy were they not comedy
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Feb 16, 2022 04:07
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FuturePastNow posted:I went in to the Scholasticate quests expecting comedy, since they have that investigator introduced in the first Hildibrand arc, and oh boy were they not comedy The Scholasticate quests are essentially FFXIV's take on an Ace Attorney case. Specifically one of the final cases, where there are funny things happening at times but the overall tone is serious. I believe the original plan was that every expansion would have a different kind of offbeat 'comedy side-story', and the Scholasticate was going to be Heavensward's, but then tons of people started asking 'where's Hildibrand'. And I do want to see the stories that would've eventuated from that; maybe a heist in Kugane, a farce in Eulmore, and political satire in Sharlayan.
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Feb 16, 2022 04:31
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People say Urianger is a huge dork but so is Zenos. He just wants to show you a good time at the end but phrases it all weird. "Hey I know something fun we could do but it's kind of dangerous and you might die. Now, endangering myself is how I have fun but I know that's not quite your thing. But I think you also know how good it feels to feel the thrill of danger."
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Feb 16, 2022 08:35
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Pollyanna posted:
The Scholasticate questline is extremely important to do because it gives you the /spectacles emote that lets you adjust your glasses if you're wearing them.
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Feb 16, 2022 08:39
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Khizan posted:The Scholasticate questline is extremely important to do because it gives you the /spectacles emote that lets you adjust your glasses if you're wearing them.
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Feb 16, 2022 09:24
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So, an idea that just struck me, that I'd like to see what other people can think of for this: What 'NPC jobs' are out there in the game's stories for us to see and recognize as legit, codified and presumably not unique fighting styles in the world, but never get to use? I'm wondering if there might be enough to do a video on at some point. The ones I can immediately think of are... -The various Trust job renames (Y'shtola's Sorceress, Alphinaud's Academician) -Musketeer (used by Merlwyb) -Garlean Gunbladeer (used by multiple people, most notably Gaius) -Geomancer (in the AST job quests, used by Kyohuko) -Thief (in the Heroes' Gauntlet) -Necromancer (in a few places, but 'legitimized' by the Heroes' Gauntlet) -Berserker (in the Heroes' Gauntlet) -Ascetic (in the ranged role quest, used by Gosetsu) -Ran'jit's fighting style, maybe? Hard to tell
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Feb 17, 2022 14:28
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Ink Mage
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Feb 17, 2022 15:09
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Cleretic posted:So, an idea that just struck me, that I'd like to see what other people can think of for this: What 'NPC jobs' are out there in the game's stories for us to see and recognize as legit, codified and presumably not unique fighting styles in the world, but never get to use? I'm wondering if there might be enough to do a video on at some point. Ran’jit definitely is using a maiming class. Soul Dragon instead of Voidsent Avatar but has an enshroud and everything. Uses a weapon on a stick. High mobility.
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Feb 17, 2022 15:52
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https://twitter.com/valarynn/status/1493917209063743489?s=20&t=Upp5i3Cjn_Sb4OBp38Pykw
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Feb 17, 2022 15:56
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Beastmaster All-Rounder (joke)
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Feb 17, 2022 15:57
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kitten emergency posted:Ink Mage I do really like this one, it's a cool name for what seems like an evolution of Arcanist that didn't have Primals to jumpstart a shift in focus. I'd like to meet one properly and see what wild Magic Math they pull out.
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Feb 17, 2022 16:56
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Cleretic posted:So, an idea that just struck me, that I'd like to see what other people can think of for this: What 'NPC jobs' are out there in the game's stories for us to see and recognize as legit, codified and presumably not unique fighting styles in the world, but never get to use? I'm wondering if there might be enough to do a video on at some point. Back before his left arm was cut off, Raubahn utilized a variant of Gladiator that dual-wielded swords instead the sword-and-board style used by everyone else in the game.
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Feb 17, 2022 18:10
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Cleretic posted:So, an idea that just struck me, that I'd like to see what other people can think of for this: What 'NPC jobs' are out there in the game's stories for us to see and recognize as legit, codified and presumably not unique fighting styles in the world, but never get to use? I'm wondering if there might be enough to do a video on at some point. -trickster (alpha)
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Feb 17, 2022 19:54
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| # ? Jun 12, 2024 21:49 |
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Cleretic posted:So, an idea that just struck me, that I'd like to see what other people can think of for this: What 'NPC jobs' are out there in the game's stories for us to see and recognize as legit, codified and presumably not unique fighting styles in the world, but never get to use? I'm wondering if there might be enough to do a video on at some point. countblanc already mentioned beastmaster, but Bozja content in general has plenty of npcs that come from Ilsabardian and Othardian schools of combat due to its setting: -Sartauvoir is a mage-knight from Landis whose style can be described as "what if thaumaturges decided umbral ice is for suckers", plus the ability to temporarily transform into a giant made of fire -the Verdant Path in Bozja was a school teaching swordsmanship, spearmanship and unarmed combat, but we only Velibor as a great sword user and Aggie as a tonfa user. the school's signature attack is Three As One, which is effective three practitioners syncing up for a shared lb3 -Isolde uses a Bozjan take on Bard/Dancer, since traditional Bozjan dance uses bows as a rythm-keeping tool, and aspiring dancers are required to master the bow as a hunting tool first -unsure if these are personal fighting styles or actual schools, but Atori and Kosyu are a spear user and axe user respectively from Nagxia whose attack particle effects involve a lot of flower petals to differentiate their style from other spear and axe fighters in the game -similar Garlean gunblade users, Garlean gunspear users seem to have their own distinct school, since Menenius in Zadnor and the IIIrd Legate during the excursion into Garlemald share a lot of attack names, most notably their Giga Tempest raidwide and Spiral Scourge tankbuster -this isn't Bozja content related, but Ishgardian knights are generally portrayed to have a style distinct from Ul'dahn gladiators and paladins. both the first boss of the Vault and Artoriel in the paladin Stormblood questline share a lot of moves, including that "dashing across the arena leaving energy balls" pattern as a signature of their style
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Feb 17, 2022 20:04
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