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loquacius posted:Like Vriska, to use an example I'm 100% sure everyone in this thread is familiar with. Remember when she challenged Jack even though she had no chance of winning and thereby doomed everyone else? Technically, Vriska did have a chance of winning that fight. Scratch implied that she very well could have won. The problem is her fairy dust left a trail for Jack to follow and kill everyone else, which happened before the fight.
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Jun 26, 2012 22:13
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| # ? May 24, 2024 07:11 |
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Hi uu!
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Jun 26, 2012 22:16
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Occupation posted:I just went with "die" because that seems to be the only way for a homestuck character to stay gone, and not even then. (Maybe Aradia realised that the only way she was going to fulfil her amibtion of staying alive was to get the heck out of the story?  )
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Jun 26, 2012 22:38
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The main problem I have with Jane and Jake is not their desisions, it's their voices. They speak/type in a very contrived way that is hard to read, and less fun then the more natural voices of John and Jade.
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Jun 26, 2012 22:41
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Paul.Power posted:I dunno, Aradia and Sollux seem to be out of the story, at least for the forseeable future.
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Jun 26, 2012 22:44
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Hey people I made more music: I'm going for a kind of desert or ruins theme. Think WV or PM wandering the landscape.
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Jun 26, 2012 22:59
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NLTM, does that use a melody from something else? It sounds vaguely familiar. Perhaps some Touhou tune.Occupation posted:It's a web comic. Hating a character and wishing they'd disappear doesn't make you a crazy sociopath, and I just went with "die" because that seems to be the only way for a homestuck character to stay gone, and not even then. Jesus Christ Jane and Jake aren't Dave but they aren't Aranea either, they are hardly as bad as you describe them to be. Others have said it before, but John wasn't much better on Act 1, and given the cast at that time it was easier to concentrate character development on him. As Things Happen Jane and Jake will also be more interesting, instead of right now that they're just fumbling around having no idea what is going on.
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Jun 26, 2012 23:39
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YF-23 posted:NLTM, does that use a melody from something else? It sounds vaguely familiar. Perhaps some Touhou tune. Maybe I did it by accident! I'm a touhou fan so I wouldn't be surprised if something snuck in there. Now that I listen to it some Bad Apple or Ame-no-torifune Shrine may have worked itself in, specifically during the slow part with just the piano and bass.
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Jun 26, 2012 23:51
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I'd be pretty cool with the Alpha Session being the "all the players hosed up so badly that they are now dead, dead forever, let's never speak of them again and edit 90% of their panels out of the book release" session. But that's just a foolish dream.
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Jun 27, 2012 00:43
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You know, for me, it's not even the characterizations of Jane and Jake that bother me, even though they are unusually dull. It's the fact that they have NO agency. What purposes do they serve? There were many times in acts 1-4 where it felt like the original kids were subject to the whims of circumstance and forces beyond their comprehension - it was basically john's designated theme in his session - but we learned about them as they (well rose and jade) did, and each big reveal, like the trolls, scratch, etc. was meaningful. Now we know more or less exactly what's going on AND, what's more, 1/2 of the kids are totally loving inept. So that's what I think is going on that makes this act so subpar. In acts 1-4 we saw the kids stand up to threats and succeed just as much as they failed. John fought his way to the first gate, Rose took down a huge golem in an incredibly badass way, etc. and now we have characters that exclusively gently caress up and it's just not fun waaaaaaah.
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Jun 27, 2012 00:54
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starfish prime posted:You know, for me, it's not even the characterizations of Jane and Jake that bother me, even though they are unusually dull. It's the fact that they have NO agency. What purposes do they serve? There were many times in acts 1-4 where it felt like the original kids were subject to the whims of circumstance and forces beyond their comprehension - it was basically john's designated theme in his session - but we learned about them as they (well rose and jade) did, and each big reveal, like the trolls, scratch, etc. was meaningful. Now we know more or less exactly what's going on AND, what's more, 1/2 of the kids are totally loving inept. Most of these kids haven't entered yet to prove their worth. You just gave examples of all the kids after they entered. John fought his way to the first gate, Rose took down a huge golem in an incredibly badass way, and Jane managed to solve the clever puzzles of her land and uncover secrets.
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Jun 27, 2012 00:58
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I'm pretty sure nobody in this story has any agency, considering the entire thing is one giant predestination paradox donut.
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Jun 27, 2012 01:36
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Homestuck without Jake would be horrible, Who would bring the guns and bravado that the group needs to win?
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Jun 27, 2012 01:43
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Plom Bar posted:Fact: stories in which the characters always do the most intelligent thing in any given situation and the heroes' plans go off without a hitch are The Most Interesting Stories In The World. So, yeah, good fact.
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Jun 27, 2012 01:47
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DaveKap posted:I know it's ~anime~ but did you ever watch Death Note? It's literally a genius vs genius "each side doing the most intelligent thing" "plans going off without a hitch" show and it's one of the most interesting shows I've ever seen. Gonna counter this. Death Note has the same tone in storytelling as when you are listening to a little kid come up with a story off the top his head. It's awful.
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Jun 27, 2012 01:59
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DaveKap posted:I know it's ~anime~ but did you ever watch Death Note? It's literally a genius vs genius "each side doing the most intelligent thing" "plans going off without a hitch" show and it's one of the most interesting shows I've ever seen. Also, I haven't watched Death Note, but it's my understanding that one of the geniuses in question goes off the deep end into batshit crazytown and the other one dies, which builds tension in its own way. There are exceptions to every trope, it's true, but the existence of those exceptions does not negate the usefulness of the trope.
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Jun 27, 2012 02:02
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So that's it? Everybody dies, end of act 6? Why even bother with introducing four new, interesting characters when they all die anticlimactically before the stories' over? Such a waste of time, Andrew should have just skipped act 6 entirely and have act 7 be the B1 kids and trolls showing up in the B2 session and noticing all their players died before they could even finish the chain and be like "Oh, oh well", then drop the frog in skaia, create the universe, and it's The End. It's official, this story should be over by now.
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Jun 27, 2012 02:08
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DaveKap posted:I know it's ~anime~ but did you ever watch Death Note? It's literally a genius vs genius "each side doing the most intelligent thing" "plans going off without a hitch" show and it's one of the most interesting shows I've ever seen. See, I enjoyed it but at the same time stories like that have a tendency to become so contrived and ridiculous that I can no longer suspend my disbelief. And, again, how did Light lose in the end? He started making really stupid, out-of-character mistakes. Two other stories that are kind of comparable are Akagi and Kaiji. Akagi is a genius mahjong player and the entertainment comes from him outwitting other genius players in games where the stakes are incredibly high. Kaiji, on the other hand, is about a complete gambling failure who nevertheless manages to come up with some clever strategies when his back is totally against the wall, but his plans often backfire on him due to unforeseen circumstances and him often making stupid decisions that sabotage his plans because his doing so is the only way he can save other people. I would say Kaiji is definitely the more interesting show, but they're both highly entertaining. I can't speak for everyone, but I like when characters act like humans.
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Jun 27, 2012 02:09
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Silva posted:So that's it? Everybody dies, end of act 6? Why even bother with introducing four new, interesting characters when they all die anticlimactically before the stories' over? Such a waste of time, Andrew should have just skipped act 6 entirely and have act 7 be the B1 kids and trolls showing up in the B2 session and noticing all their players died before they could even finish the chain and be like "Oh, oh well", then drop the frog in skaia, create the universe, and it's The End. This is probably a trollpost but I just feel the need to confirm that you are an honest-to-God moron if you think any of these "deaths" are genuine, especially considering that two of them are explicitly called KO's instead
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Jun 27, 2012 02:12
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Silva posted:So that's it? Everybody dies, end of act 6? Why even bother with introducing four new, interesting characters when they all die anticlimactically before the stories' over? Such a waste of time, Andrew should have just skipped act 6 entirely and have act 7 be the B1 kids and trolls showing up in the B2 session and noticing all their players died before they could even finish the chain and be like "Oh, oh well", then drop the frog in skaia, create the universe, and it's The End. Boy, it's a good thing death has always been completely final, and the end-all-be-all of a character huh? I mean just look at John!  Seriously, what the gently caress?
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Jun 27, 2012 02:14
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Cabbit posted:I'm pretty sure nobody in this story has any agency, considering the entire thing is one giant predestination paradox donut. I guess agency wasnt the right word. I suppose I meant that the old kids really felt like they were accomplishing SOMETHING, even though most of it turned out to be peanuts compared to killing a time traveling demon or whatever. Plus they actually, you know, entered the medium within an appropriate timeframe. For gently caress's sake, this act started LAST YEAR and Jane is still the only one in the game yet. I don't know exactly how the page numbers compare but considering that the entire universe had to be established in the early acts, the original kids entered blazingly fast.
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Jun 27, 2012 02:16
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starfish prime posted:I guess agency wasnt the right word. I suppose I meant that the old kids really felt like they were accomplishing SOMETHING, even though most of it turned out to be peanuts compared to killing a time traveling demon or whatever. Plus they actually, you know, entered the medium within an appropriate timeframe. For gently caress's sake, this act started LAST YEAR and Jane is still the only one in the game yet. We're on Act 6 Act 3, near the end, and Roxy is just about to enter the medium (and maybe she does?). Guess when Rose entered the medium? End of Act 3, which was almost a year after the comic started. Sooooooo
Color Printer fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Jun 27, 2012 |
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Jun 27, 2012 02:18
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The second half of Death Note was just bad and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. The first half was alright though. I'm curious what the next few pages will be.
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Jun 27, 2012 02:22
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A random thought I had (which I hope isn't the case): what is the possibility of what we're seeing be beta timelines? Primarily basing off the fact that we see Cal fall into water instead of fire -- maybe that's a splinter point into a beta timeline? It makes no sense for Jane's viewport to cut out, and we know that Trollian has no capacity to interact with beta timelines.
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Jun 27, 2012 02:25
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Color Printer posted:We're on Act 6 Act 3, near the end, and Roxy is just about to enter the medium (and maybe she does?). Guess when Rose entered the medium? End of Act 3, which was almost a year after the comic started. Yeah but like I said everything was new to the reader then. There was actual worldbuilding going on instead of characters like Aranea droning on and on about stuff that an attentive reader should already know. But I dunno. Everything about Uu is positive for the story and I do suspect that it's going to pick up pretty soon. I just think that Hussie could use an editor.
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Jun 27, 2012 02:40
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Oxxidation posted:This is probably a trollpost but I just feel the need to confirm that you are an honest-to-God moron if you think any of these "deaths" are genuine, especially considering that two of them are explicitly called KO's instead Jane is dead. D E A D dead. Dirk is knocked out and can't kiss her back to life in time, and will die to the miles. Roxy is DEAD. No one is around to save her. This sucks way too much, she was my favorite. And now Jake has no way to enter the medium and will get lava'd to death. If the characters aren't dead already, they will die in the next few updates. And if Hussie pulls one more bullshitty deus ex machina out of his rear end I will poo poo in a bin and mail it to him.
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Jun 27, 2012 02:44
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Silva posted:Jane is dead. D E A D dead. Dirk is knocked out and can't kiss her back to life in time, and will die to the miles.
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Jun 27, 2012 02:45
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starfish prime posted:Yeah but like I said everything was new to the reader then. There was actual worldbuilding going on instead of characters like Aranea droning on and on about stuff that an attentive reader should already know. True. Act 6 does seem to be a parallel to the previous acts in many ways; Acts 1-3 had a lot of world and character-building. So does Act 6 but less world-building because we already know a bunch of poo poo. Act 6 Acts 1-3 may be meandering around, but so did the first 3 acts. Especially Act 1. Good lord, when I starting reading Homestuck, I quit several times during Act 1 because nothing loving happened and it drove me bonkers. But yeah, aside from world and character building nothing really happened in them, up until near the end of Act 3. But thankfully near the end of Act 3 is where poo poo started to get real, and poo poo got very real in Act 4, so Act 6 Act 4 should be filled with more things actually happening.
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Jun 27, 2012 02:45
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The old kids had like, four acts to acquire clout and agency and a real feeling of accomplishment. By comparison, John spent the first act running around trying to get a single goddamn computer disc into his computer. The alpha kids have done well enough for one act.
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Jun 27, 2012 02:47
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Silva posted:Jane is dead. D E A D dead. Dirk is knocked out and can't kiss her back to life in time, and will die to the miles. It was implied by the lighthouse puzzle at the beginning of 6.3 that Jane's dreamself survived somehow, possibly by doing some Lifey Thing. There are plenty of things hanging around to interact with Roxy's corpse, maybe one of them will try to bite her mouth and that will count as a kiss. And like...seriously, it's like you haven't been reading the story up to this point. Death is far from a permanent construct in Homestuck.
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Jun 27, 2012 02:48
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Cabbit posted:The old kids had like, four acts to acquire clout and agency and a real feeling of accomplishment. By comparison, John spent the first act running around trying to get a single goddamn computer disc into his computer. The alpha kids have done well enough for one act. The original kids didn't spend the equivalent of an entire act mooning over who wanted to bone who. The alpha kids have been spinning their wheels so bad that they've churned out little graves for themselves by now. Here's to hoping they rot in them.
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Jun 27, 2012 02:49
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I hope we get an awkward argument between Dave and Rose about who has to kiss Roxy's dying dreamself. She's still snorin' it up in the exposition bubble, right?
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Jun 27, 2012 02:50
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Plom Bar posted:It was implied by the lighthouse puzzle at the beginning of 6.3 that Jane's dreamself survived somehow, possibly by doing some Lifey Thing. There are plenty of things hanging around to interact with Roxy's corpse, maybe one of them will try to bite her mouth and that will count as a kiss. I know death is not permanent. It just makes you a useless character, unless that character is Meenah.
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Jun 27, 2012 02:54
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Plom Bar posted:It was implied by the lighthouse puzzle at the beginning of 6.3 that Jane's dreamself survived somehow, possibly by doing some Lifey Thing. There are plenty of things hanging around to interact with Roxy's corpse, maybe one of them will try to bite her mouth and that will count as a kiss. We KNOW Jane's dreamself survived. Remember when Jack came in to finish the job and kill her for good, then got clocked and stuck in jail on Prospit? That whole thing? Jane is made of life. Nothing can escape the miles, but nothing can kill Crocker. n o t h i n g. She'll probably life herself back to life yet again without even losing her dreamself. And I still bet anything that Roxy didn't actually die and uu is just making a hopeful guess.
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Jun 27, 2012 02:56
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Roxy's dreamself is fine, Jane's dreamself is fine. At a MINIMUM, Gamzee is floating about, and certainly willing to make out with any corpses he finds. The other players are probably accessible. The rest of the A2/B1 crew is almost certainly arriving just about now.
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Jun 27, 2012 02:57
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Jane will do the lifey thing and then make out with Roxy as was foreshadowed. Then Jake will eat a baby.
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Jun 27, 2012 02:57
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As a proxy for the very worst sort of fans, these updates were clearly what uu has been waiting on for a long time now. Also, it looks like he already has his roboleg prepared for when cuts off his own.
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Jun 27, 2012 02:58
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Some of the posts in this thread are kind of boggling to me and smell of the same kind of attitudes hipsters get when something has become too mainstream. Maybe because uu's behavior and commentary are too meta and people have selective memory about how this has all gone down so far but it seems really silly to me. Especially since this whole batch of updates seems to have AH telegraphing "UNRELIABLE NARRATOR" all over the place.
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Jun 27, 2012 02:58
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RuanGacho posted:Especially since this whole batch of updates seems to have AH telegraphing "UNRELIABLE NARRATOR" all over the place. One thing we all need to keep in mind is the that Hussie (the self-insert character) isn't at the helm anymore ever since Lord English killed him in 6.I2. It was implied in the conversation between deadVriska and deadTavros that the story's being written by a madman specifically to screw with a potential observer's head and mess things up as to his own whims. So at this point, even if something happens, it doesn't necessarily mean that it happens. Kind of like during the Scratch intersession when he spun a yarn about Jack killing Karkat and Terezi, only to reveal within a few days that this was all just something that Terezi was using her Mind powers to see.
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Jun 27, 2012 03:07
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| # ? May 24, 2024 07:11 |
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Cabbit posted:The old kids had like, four acts to acquire clout and agency and a real feeling of accomplishment. By comparison, John spent the first act running around trying to get a single goddamn computer disc into his computer. The alpha kids have done well enough for one act. While this is true, following John around as he derped about didn't have any kind of context behind it. It was all new, nobody knew what was going on, and there weren't a whole bunch of characters we already really liked and had grown to know over the course of a couple years put on the backburner so we could watch him fumble around with his sylladex. He was the one we were interested in because it was the start of the story and we wanted to see what happened next, especially once the house-resizing shenanigans began (that was what got me hooked). Meanwhile, Act 6 has been just the opposite. Right after a huge climax where all sorts of pieces are lined up, we go back to square one and spend a lot of time following new people we had never seen before (save for their pre-scratch adult selves, which had barely any characterization, and were mostly sidelined the whole time). Comparing Act 6 to Act 1 from a reader perspective just because they share thematic similarities isn't really fair. I think Act 6 has been OK. Not great, not bad, just OK, and sorta draggy and boring at times. I haven't really found much interest in the new people because I want to see what happens to the other main characters. I stopped reading for a few weeks while Jane was flipping out about her romantic fuckup because I just didn't care. Funnily enough, it got good again right after I quit, so I had a nice buffer of interesting stuff to read when I came back. I can understand why people don't particularly like the new kids or want them to get out of the way, narrative-wise. When Jane "blew up" from the mailbox bomb, I was genuinely stunned, and I thought for sure poo poo had just gotten super real in an instant. I was really invested, suddenly, in what happened to the other (new) kids, and seeing where Act 6 was going. But it was just a fake-out, as we learned later. I found that really disappointing, and it killed a lot of the suspense and interest I had in Act 6. Not because I wanted to see a poor innocent kid die horribly, but because that would have been an enormous curveball and really thrown all my expectations off balance, creating lots of interest and tension. Instead, we just got Act 1 MKII for a long time and for me, it took all the wind out of the sails. Also, I don't think the people wishing Character X would "just die already" are sick-minded sociopaths or anything like that. The "I hope X dies!" reaction in stories generally shows up from two things: 1) a character who is designed to be hated by the audience and developed so well that everyone becomes invested in seeing their demise, a deserving villain, or 2) a character who is seen as a hindrance to the plot/other characters they are already invested in/entertainment value of the work, and getting them out of the story usually means dying. In Homestuck, it's a bit different, since even dead players come back frequently, but the people glad about someone dying just want them off-screen, not necessarily suffering or killed. Death is just the most expedient way to remove these characters from the plot, at least temporarily, given the way the story has progressed up to this point.
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Jun 27, 2012 03:08
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