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I support and agree with probably everything police /prison abolitionists say and am not even really opposed to the utopian thinking behind it, but when literally the first question everyone asks is 'but what about the serial killers!' leading to a huge sidetracked derail, maybe there's a messaging problem
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May 12, 2018 14:34
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no you see. we're abolishing police, by changing how they act. thats what abolish means because ive read 700 books on Socialist Economic Dialectic Philoso-Science but not the dictionary
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May 12, 2018 15:25
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"Police reform" means loving nothing. That's Liberal speak for "Uh well, police are bad but what are ya gonna do about it?" Why would you use language that's been used to protect police and allow them to keep terrorizing people? Do y'all really want a loving movement that echoes Democratic Party speak?
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May 12, 2018 15:39
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https://twitter.com/doghousedano/status/995192046364299265?s=21
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May 12, 2018 15:42
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No lack of context in that tweet at all, no siree.
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May 12, 2018 15:43
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Frijolero posted:"Police reform" means loving nothing. That's Liberal speak for "Uh well, police are bad but what are ya gonna do about it?" nothing means anything
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May 12, 2018 15:48
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Frijolero posted:"Police reform" means loving nothing. That's Liberal speak for "Uh well, police are bad but what are ya gonna do about it?" If you're using the words as normal people people use them and not using your super secret definition, police reform is exactly what you want. You wouldn't think socialists would be prescriptivists wrt to language but for some reason when it comes to police and prison reform they are 100%.
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May 12, 2018 15:51
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"Nothing means nothing." – International Superstar "Macho Man" Randy Savage
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May 12, 2018 15:51
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Nitrousoxide posted:If you're using the words as normal people people use them and not using your super secret definition, police reform is exactly what you want. Who in the everliving gently caress are "normal people?" Who are you trying to appeal to with "police reform?" You think young POC are going to support your rear end if you push "reform?" You think working class people are going to support you if you delicately bounce around transforming our criminal justice system? Y'all are thinking like Liberal pundits instead of like people trying to build a long-lasting movement.
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May 12, 2018 15:55
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for gently caress's sake, if people think you're proposing "The Purge except every day" maybe the messaging and word choice should be changed
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May 12, 2018 16:06
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In this country the massive bias towards the police means that "police reform" is a unconscionably radical position and police abolition is something a mental patient would say. If you want to shock people, even something as mild as accountability is shocking. Stop playing the messaging game and start thinking about specific policies you can put forward.
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May 12, 2018 16:09
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Or maybe try a variety of approaches and prepare for the possibility that it’ll take more than sloganeering to win people over? And maybe that’s OK?!
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May 12, 2018 16:11
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large adult son posted:for gently caress's sake, if people think you're proposing "The Purge except every day" maybe the messaging and word choice should be changed Ah yes, the nationally easily recognized movie that came out god knows when and everyone constantly talks about.
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May 12, 2018 16:16
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Kobayashi posted:Or maybe try a variety of approaches and prepare for the possibility that it’ll take more than sloganeering to win people over? And maybe that’s OK?! A variety of approaches is fine but if people focus on arguing over the differences 
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May 12, 2018 16:16
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What's wrong with police abolition? It's the term everybody uses
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May 12, 2018 16:34
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A Gnarlacious Bro posted:What's wrong with police abolition? It's the term everybody uses Middle class whites might not like it so we better not use it.
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May 12, 2018 16:36
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A Gnarlacious Bro posted:What's wrong with police abolition? It's the term everybody uses please do not troll me
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May 12, 2018 16:40
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Frijolero posted:"Police reform" means loving nothing. That's Liberal speak for "Uh well, police are bad but what are ya gonna do about it?" Radical Police Reform. I did it guys. I solved the police abolition messaging crisis and saved socialism.
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May 12, 2018 16:49
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Frijolero posted:Ah yes, the nationally easily recognized movie that came out god knows when and everyone constantly talks about. it wasn't meant literally but metaphorically you know, something like "abolition of police"
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May 12, 2018 16:50
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"Abolition of police" is not a metaphor though?
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May 12, 2018 16:53
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Dmitri-9 posted:In this country the massive bias towards the police means that "police reform" is a unconscionably radical position and police abolition is something a mental patient would say. If you want to shock people, even something as mild as accountability is shocking. Stop playing the messaging game and start thinking about specific policies you can put forward. I think you'll find that every Democrat does the song and dance about "We need to change our police so that things like X don't happen again" before taking a huge sip from the police union fund mug. Police reform means next to nothing.
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May 12, 2018 16:54
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At this point I'm more interested in what police aboliton actually means considering whenever it comes up we tell about vocab without ever talking about solutions beyond "read a book lol"
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May 12, 2018 17:00
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reform my rear end(i will not abolish my rear end)
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May 12, 2018 17:04
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It means abolishing the police and establishing a new system of law enforcement that's not the police
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May 12, 2018 17:04
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A Gnarlacious Bro posted:It means abolishing the police and establishing a new system of law enforcement that's not the police So we want people who enforce the law. Will they be empowered by the state?
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May 12, 2018 17:07
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this is a trick question because of you say yes then the response is "grats we just invented the police'
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May 12, 2018 17:08
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Those arn't the only defining features of the police though
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May 12, 2018 17:09
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I don't know what level of irony or troll this account is, but I genuinely love it: https://twitter.com/DSA_Hit_By_Car/status/995109877449220096?s=20
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May 12, 2018 17:16
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cops are cops
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May 12, 2018 17:16
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There's a group called Cure Violence that does unarmed community based meditation and intervention, areas they focus on see a pretty decent drop in shootings and homicides. In Richmond, CA they give a monthly stipend to violent offenders if they're good boys and offer them additional support networks. "Neighborhood change agents", who are all ex-cons themselves, can and are called when crimes happen because people know they'll actually help. Richmond has had a 76% drop in homicides since they implemented these changes (of course its not ina vacuum). There are so many actual police alternatives already in place and working that it almost requires purposely not paying attention to think that is not possible.
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May 12, 2018 17:20
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Marxalot posted:this is a trick question because of you say yes then the response is "grats we just invented the police' Oh wow you mean people will have bad faith replies to socialist ideas? Dang well it's been a good run guys.
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May 12, 2018 17:21
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Vhak lord of hate posted:There's a group called Cure Violence that does unarmed community based meditation and intervention, areas they focus on see a pretty decent drop in shootings and homicides. cool so you want these guys + cops, right?
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May 12, 2018 17:22
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I want those guys and a Necron based law system whereyou keep what you kill, the only true justice in this galaxy
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May 12, 2018 17:24
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Galaxy Brain: Fully automated gay space communism but with police intact because it's too hard to think of alternatives.
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May 12, 2018 17:30
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As a side note I think disarming the police would be almost an acceptable alternative but they'd dissolve themselves before that happened
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May 12, 2018 17:33
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what about when you have no cops who use force but an ubercriminal from the 1980s is thawed out to wreak havoc in san angeles???? what about then????
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May 12, 2018 17:33
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Slanderer posted:cool so you want these guys + cops, right? We're calling them Communal Law Enforcers. Because seriously, gently caress the god drat Democrats. fakeedit: Cure Violence sounds like a neighborhood watch that isn't full of a bunch of suckass old people posting on nextdoor because some swarthy minorities (from the crossfit gym 2 blocks away) are running in packs up and down the street fakeedit2: this actually happened
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May 12, 2018 17:33
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A Gnarlacious Bro posted:"Abolition of police" is not a metaphor though? of course it is, no one wants to actually abolish the police, they want to abolish the current form of policing, from the way cops are trained to the way they work etc. and yes, people who say "oh well, the other side twists everything we say anyway so why not just go all the way" are technically right but IMO practically there's a big PR difference between "healthcare is a right" and "abolish police", both of which would be examples of going all the way
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May 12, 2018 17:35
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i thought sharing your black people sighting reports was the entire point of nextdoor
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May 12, 2018 17:35
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Shear Modulus posted:what about when you have no cops who use force but an ubercriminal from the 1980s is thawed out to wreak havoc in san angeles???? what about then???? in all the movies, the good guy would already be a cop suspended from the force for going too far. police abolition will create the maximum number of fired cops, so is the best way to ensure that we have a suitible number of movie protagonists to take on the growing supervillain menace.
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May 12, 2018 17:38
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