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That's an interesting question, and the answer to it partially depends on what I was talking about there. Spawners absorbing pollution (an entirely separate mechanic from the evolution factor) gives them more points with which to spawn more and stronger units, so a spawner deep in your cloud will require an enormous amount of ammunition to defend, while one outside it requires basically nothing. With default settings, destroying one spawner affects evolution the same as creating 2,222 pollution. Obviously, that means that eventually killing the biters will increase evolution more than destroying the spawner would have, but how long that takes depends on how you're killing them, what upgrades you're using, what bonuses your different buildings have, basically everything that can occur in the game.
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Jul 30, 2019 11:28
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K8.0 posted:I'm playing a game like a brand new player would right now and it's so loving brutal. At least half my resources are going into ammo to hold off the absurd waves of biters. It's definitely a hosed up and backwards difficulty curve where biters are literally orders of magnitude more difficult for new players than experienced ones. What does "play like a new player" mean for you? Because the reactions to the 0.17 release showed that there's a big difference between 'veteran player pretending to be bad' and actual new players.
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Jul 30, 2019 11:37
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K8.0 posted:I'm playing a game like a brand new player would right now and it's so loving brutal. At least half my resources are going into ammo to hold off the absurd waves of biters. It's definitely a hosed up and backwards difficulty curve where biters are literally orders of magnitude more difficult for new players than experienced ones. Biters are also generally more difficult in the early game than the mid or late game. I'd love it if the game had some sort of 'peninsula' start, where there was only a small area you needed to fortify to be safe at the start. Setting cliff-continuity to its highest setting gets part-way to this, but still leaves at least a handful of gaps all around your perimeter. And it takes forever to walk from one side of your perimeter to the other, too. Generally, the early-mid biter game feels really bad. There are a couple of mods which (claim to) help with this progression : Loss Prevention and Next Gen Evolution. I say 'claim to' because I haven't used them enough to really tell if they actually work. I really hope they do - the base game needs them. The game could really do with a "don't turn on biter expansion until X technology" option (X is probably Blue Science?) which would give a new player a better chance of having produced enough walls, turrets & red bullets to defend themselves decently. OR change biter behaviour so that they withdraw once they've destroyed Y amount of stuff, where Y is a percentage of resources you've consumed or something. Edit : holy hell,  My new/newer player experience was roughly: 1) This 3rd campaign mission is weird - there's no base and it wants me to kill a load of biters and spawners with these capsule things. OK, let's try... Nope! Wow, those things are useless. Maybe I should just do this 'Freeplay' thing instead. 2) (my 3rd or 4th game) I remember playing about and gradually getting through Green techs, but it turned out that I was so far behind the biter-mil-sci curve that I could, for all intents and purposes, not meaningfully break out of my starting area. With a lot of effort I could make a tiny amount of headway but it was taking my entire factory's output to not lose that ground. (I put the game down for a few weeks before I tried again) 3) Maybe I tried one on peaceful mode? I honestly don't know - if I did then I stopped pretty sharpish because it just felt wrong. 4) My next real game I made more effort to expand earlier and capture some oil, more iron and copper, before biters claimed all the land. So I had more resources - and played around with flame turrets for the first time - but still managed to get into the same stalemate position where defence was easy-ish but offence was much, much more difficult. It was doable, but it was such an insanely tedious miserable slog that I quit. This was all in earlier versions, 0.14 or 0.15 I think. But I don't think recent versions have improved this part of the game in any real way, so overall I think this tale of woe is still a valid observation. Looking back at it, I don't think there was one key thing that I was missing that could have gotten me out of that position. It was too late - I'd gradually sunken into a failure state (or what felt like one) without realising. Every game I played since then, I prioritised red ammo & turrets above everything, and then nuclear & lasers after that. Now, I won't play without some sort of mod that gives a long-ranged turret. The funny thing is, I actually like the pressure, the impetus that biters provide. But the game doesn't present/teach it well, and the fact that it lets the player get into a gradually-unrecoverable failure state feels like a severe blemish on an otherwise well-designed game. FnF fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Jul 30, 2019 |
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Jul 30, 2019 15:20
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Agreed. We're doing Krastorio with Bob's Enemies, and we're just barely cracking into Yellow and Purple science (and there are many many more colored sciences to unlock still) and our evolution factor is up to something like .98, but all we have is red ammo and laser turrets. Trying to go up against Leviathan Biters with red ammo is a stupid prospect. It's to the point where we're loading a tank up with extra engines and shields, then luring crowds of biters back to a wall of 20+ laser turrets, then doing drive-bys of the nests to try and wipe them out. But then you add the Giant Worms into the equation and it just feels dumb. We've definitely hit that stalemate point where our weapons are simply insufficient to meaningfully fight the biters, so every inch we claim is tooth and nail. Then, maybe a few dozen hours from now, we'll eventually unlock a technology that'll make the combat trivial again. But currently it feels incredibly frustrating.
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Jul 30, 2019 17:57
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Tamba posted:What does "play like a new player" mean for you? Mostly not going around attacking biter nests, because TBH as of 0.17 that's really the only thing that matters. I also tried a bunch of other stuff, but it turns out not to matter much because there's just no getting around the fact that if you let a significant amount of your pollution be absorbed by spawners, you get swarmed by increasingly absurd numbers of of biters. You either start mining and producing reasonably efficiently or you wipe. Thinking about it, I'm actually coming to the conclusion that the new tutorial is in fact really bad in the current state of the game. It teaches you to run away from biters and turtle up, which is exactly the opposite of how the game as it currently exists wants you to deal with them.
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Jul 30, 2019 19:18
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IIRC the new tutorials were written before that pollution absorption bug was found and fixed, which drastically changed how fervant biters get. Hopefully they do another pass on that tutorial, you really can't ignore bases in your cloud anymore.
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Jul 30, 2019 19:38
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K8.0 posted:Thinking about it, I'm actually coming to the conclusion that the new tutorial is in fact really bad in the current state of the game. It teaches you to run away from biters and turtle up, which is exactly the opposite of how the game as it currently exists wants you to deal with them. As a new player, I have zero idea how you would even go about attacking a nest early on and be successful. I don't think that's a viable option for a new player. The way the game is presented I think a wipe / game over is something that needs to be very much avoided at all costs by the devs. I've been playing for a week or 2, and 60 hours or so. I had just got my plastic production in vanilla 0.16 done and decided to add some mods and make the jump to 0.17. New player experience they are pretty much identical. Is the oil change even in? I still have to deal with 3 outputs though I'm doing much better now that I'm doing 99% underground and using different distances for piping it's become fairly trivial. I don't like the biters re-expanding into areas I cleared it makes it tedious and I end up covering my entire base in a perimeter of guns. I do like this look but I also know I will miss a power pole going out so I also send bullets with the power and add guns since any depot is going to need guns as well. I could / should probably look at lasers solar and capacitors. A lot of early game is getting ammo up and running, I did a few starts on 0.16 and 0.17 to get a feel for how I wanted to generate my map (I've opted to turn off biter expansion but leave them hostile so they send attacks, I like the military look of a ring of guns and a secure area. The switch to AP rounds is pretty expensive at first but it's honestly not that hard to mass produce them either. It's the first major use of steel and copper but the use rate of bullets is low enough that it generally takes a few hours before the first shots with AP are fired (I just run them along the same line, and also start using both sides of the belt so there's an immediate large demand. I then upgrade my copper and steel production so they can produce an entire red belt worth and go gently caress off and do trains / blue science. The main problem I have is biters with expansion enabled means they will surround my base entirely while I'm learning and overwhelm me. (Well keep me from moving beyond them until I in theory run out of resources in my base). Turning it off means I can take them out for good but they get pretty strong, they seem like must larger nests with expansion disabled so I have to assume they can grow or expand and if they can't make a new base they just always grow. This provides a good balance but I'm still at a point where they send attacks take out a section of wall then I have to run 20 minutes to fix the damage and the busted up machined add a few more guns to prevent it and suddenly same problem at the opposite side of the base. It just feels like I'm bailing out a sinking ship in shark infested water with land in sight. Biters could stand a bit of a slow down on how fast they expand, how fast they evolve seems pretty decent up to the start of blue science. This weekend I can hopefully go through most of the blue tech and let you know how that works, I'm sure it solves all my problems but trying to figure out the optimal way to lay out pipes for the first time while base attack alerts are going off is just frustrating. Yes I could probably just do my work go AFK for 6 hours and still have most of a base, but that's not the point I don't want to have to rebuild poo poo. I can't wait for these robots to repair my poo poo, that's my goal for tonight. So I'm basically at the same point in 0.17 as I was in 0.16 now, 0.17 feels more intuitive and like you are controlling a character. 0.16 felt like a 90s RTS engine with a directly controller character bolt on top.
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Jul 30, 2019 20:19
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Fwiw, the Bio Industries mod allows you to plant trees, either via slow terraforming, or later via tree seed rockets, and it's an excellent way of walling biters against your poison while also putting up walls against the biters.
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Jul 30, 2019 20:49
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One thing I just thought of: How about biter evolution based on pollution rate rather than just pollution generated. This way if you were learning the ropes you'd mostly just have to deal with swarms of small biters hours in, rather than being overwhelmed by mediums and larges. To prevent people from dragging their feet to the nth degree the time evolution factor would still play into it very slowly. An time based evolution cap could also be implemented, where for example no matter how much you polluted you couldn't reach 0.95 until the 8 hour mark. So your final evolution factor would be the pollution rate + nest kill + v. slow time rate, and capped by total time. If you ever reduce your pollution rate with solar/efficincy modules than the pollution rate wouldn't be increasing the evolution factor anymore and it would just be time + nests until your factory was big enough to be polluting more than before.
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Jul 30, 2019 21:03
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Mithaldu posted:Fwiw, the Bio Industries mod allows you to plant trees, either via slow terraforming, or later via tree seed rockets, and it's an excellent way of walling biters against your poison while also putting up walls against the biters. This is something I might look at if I try any of the harder enemy mods to combine it with. They are mostly just a problem while learning. When you are messing around with the best way to lay something out in the game for a few hours watching belts move and trying to see where bottlenecks are (all things that become automatic and easy with a glance as you play, I don't need to do these things anymore) but all of this takes up time during a first play. I've never really felt like it was impossible to progress just really really tedious to clear out all the nests with my current tech level. I think biters being tied more closely to your tech level could smooth things out with new players, or even capped based on the highest science tier created. The way the game is it just feels like something you aren't supposed to start over at least not frequently once you get into. Maybe someone with more playtime can turn this into an actual idea in game terms and get it to the devs. I'd also like to have a reason to have a battle train, I was a bit disappointed when I read they are mostly worthless.
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Jul 30, 2019 21:35
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pixaal posted:As a new player, I have zero idea how you would even go about attacking a nest early on and be successful. I don't think that's a viable option for a new player. The way the game is presented I think a wipe 4-6 turrets and 50-100 magazines per turret is enough to kill early nests. Get closer to the worms until they're in turret range, then plop drag a row of turrets down, then swap to your ammo stack and control right click and drag across the turrets to load them. Switch to repair packs and help the turrets tank the damage until they've killed all the worms/spawners in range, then pick them up, back out of range, drop them down and repair, repeat as necessary. It's important to note that worms and larger spitters are not hitscan. They aim where you will be if you maintain your current trajectory, so by stutter stepping and/or changing direction you can avoid the damage and the puddles. Once you tech up a bit, you can start using grenades to clear nests - drop a turret farm just out of worm range to kill the biters, then run in and throw grenades at the worms. Once you get a car, use it as a grenade platform, and once you get defender capsules, use those as well. Leave a couple turrets with walls around them behind to keep biters from re-expanding in the same area. The way expansion works is that the biters send out a group to a spot, and then if nothing aggros them for a bit, they die and turn into a new nest. Having turrets randomly scattered around will prevent that from happening pretty drat well. Maintaining radar coverage of your pollution cloud will let you know if any nests have snuck in, plus you can just pay attention to where attacks are coming from and figure out if there's one hiding in your cloud pretty well. As long as you don't have giant waves crashing into your base, it's easy enough to stay ahead of them on tech and have biters be a fun distraction rather than an existential crisis. K8.0 fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Jul 30, 2019 |
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Jul 30, 2019 23:06
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Tbh, the combat has, particularly since the changes to the spitters, become really poo poo. The vehicle controls are complete rear end because it is absolute 100% and entirely necessary to keep moving, otherwise you'll melt in an acid puddle / biter swarm immediately, and if you just hold the throttle down all the time you have to zoom out a LOT to see what you're doing (or you have to go tap pause tap pause tap pause tap the entire time, which just lol), but if you're zoomed out you can't recognize the obstacles anymore that will stop both cars and tanks 100% dead in their tracks and require a lot of time to wiggle away from the obstacle and get moving again if you haven't melted/been eaten yet. Worst of all though, the combat skills are completely divorced from the factory building skills you're learning. It doesn't even feel like actually learning to fight, but more like you're learning how to abuse the clunky mess of a pre-release game that is the combat. Stutter-stepping is a great example. It works, but you don't feel like you're fighting well, you are just abusing a bug. There's also issues in that nominally the game appears to want you to build some tower defense kind of poo poo with windy paths for the biters to work through, but i have literally never been able to actually build any sort of even smaller zig zag wall arrangement that didn't cause the biters to just start and eat the walls instead.
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Jul 30, 2019 23:23
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Mithaldu posted:Tbh, the combat has, particularly since the changes to the spitters, become really poo poo. I'm glad they at least reverted the lag hiding in combat. Those were an awful couple of play sessions when pressing the button to fire my weapon meant suddenly all of my controls were delayed by half a second! Edit: But I agree with all of your points. Combat in this game is a chore.
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Jul 30, 2019 23:40
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I'm simultaneously excited for a streamlined oil process and paralyzed with anxiety at the thought of loading my 200+ hour megabase and having to retool my distributed blue science and rocket fuel plants, in addition to having to hugely expand my sulfur production and slash my solid fuel. 
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Jul 30, 2019 23:48
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I really dislike time based evolution as a concept. It punishes people who are learning the ropes harder than experienced players.
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Jul 31, 2019 00:58
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You don’t really have to hugely expand sulfur, it’s an incredibly efficient recipe. On the new map I’m working on with the new oil, one chemical plant making sulfur is considerably more than enough for 1.5 sci/sec. I’m away from home and don’t know the numbers exactly but it’s considerably cheaper than solid fuel was.
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Jul 31, 2019 01:12
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RyokoTK posted:You don’t really have to hugely expand sulfur, it’s an incredibly efficient recipe. Until this patch I haven't needed sulfur alone on the scales to feed something like a 1600/s blue science plant, so other than some surplus floating around my starting base, my net sulfur production is more or less zero.
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Jul 31, 2019 01:26
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ymgve posted:I really dislike time based evolution as a concept. It punishes people who are learning the ropes harder than experienced players. Set it to 0 when creating a new map
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Jul 31, 2019 17:46
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concise posted:Set it to 0 when creating a new map Yeah, it's easy to fix, but the same players that get punished by it would not know that they should set it to 0 at the start. Having it enabled by default is bad IMO.
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Jul 31, 2019 17:58
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On the other hand, increasing amounts of biters is the only thing pushing the player to expand rather than go AFK for an hour or so while their one assembler each of science slowly churns out the next tech. I think central to the problem with biters is the focus on making the attacks organic. Your pollution hits nests which spawn biters to attack. So until your pollution cloud is big enough to reach a nest you have no idea what kind of threat you'll face or from where. And later you have a visible radius to destroy every nest in to be completely secure from biters. If I were designing I'd have the biters as a whole attack you in a gradual curve triggered by the pollution you generated anywhere, spawned from the nearest nest(s), regardless of whether they're in your cloud or not. Measure it out to gradually test your defences (the first wave or two could be fended off with your initial pistol and ammo before they do real damage, gradually require bigger defences). Having it triggered by total pollution generated rather than absorbed means that newer players taking it slow will be less pressured than experienced ones going all-out from the start, but the pressure will still ramp up over time proportionately. It would also pull the focus away from aggressive combat, which to me clashes with the whole factory game in the way automatable defensive combat is not. Yoy would destroy nests to claim territory but it wouldn't slow down the invasions.
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Jul 31, 2019 18:18
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I'm having trouble understanding some of this. Tenebrais posted:On the other hand, increasing amounts of biters is the only thing pushing the player to expand rather than go AFK for an hour or so while their one assembler each of science slowly churns out the next tech. Tenebrais posted:I think central to the problem with biters is the focus on making the attacks organic. Your pollution hits nests which spawn biters to attack. So until your pollution cloud is big enough to reach a nest you have no idea what kind of threat you'll face or from where. And later you have a visible radius to destroy every nest in to be completely secure from biters. Tenebrais posted:If I were designing I'd have the biters as a whole attack you in a gradual curve triggered by the pollution you generated anywhere, spawned from the nearest nest(s), regardless of whether they're in your cloud or not. Measure it out to gradually test your defences (the first wave or two could be fended off with your initial pistol and ammo before they do real damage, gradually require bigger defences). Having it triggered by total pollution generated rather than absorbed means that newer players taking it slow will be less pressured than experienced ones going all-out from the start, but the pressure will still ramp up over time proportionately. If the goal was to have a single fixed location and to make the strength of attack waves more or less predictable and consistent across games (based on similar production levels and growth), this would make more sense to me. This works as long as you can assume the base is roughly in the same central spot. However, there's a number of ways Factorio demands that the player expand, focused around acquiring additional resources. What with the need to continually acquire resource patches further and further away, it becomes harder to make a consistent (and efficient!) determination of which biter bases are "closest". This is one of the ways the "organic" pollution cloud system excels - when the pollution cloud is spread over biter nests, those nests start absorbing pollution to fund attacks. This is also subject to abuse, however - if attacks always originate from the closest bases, then the optimal strategy to trivialize biter attacks is to "claim" the closest biter nests, leaving them intact but ringing them with static defenses, leaving you free to expand, "claiming" additional bases as necessary. A strategy similar to this already exists - if you surround a spawner with a sufficiently thick barrier of pipes/walls, you can block it from actually spawning anything while it still absorbs pollution. Under your proposed changes, destroying biter bases becomes less appealing in general because if you destroy one of the "close" bases that's sending attacks, you aren't reducing the amount of biters coming in - instead, you've simply redirected the incoming attack waves to start coming from a new direction where you may or may not have any static defenses built. This creates an incentive to not destroy any biter bases unless absolutely necessary - if you go out and clear biter bases, suddenly you don't really know where the next attack waves will come from until they appear, which seems to be the opposite of what you intended.
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Jul 31, 2019 19:59
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Olesh posted:A strategy similar to this already exists - if you surround a spawner with a sufficiently thick barrier of pipes/walls, you can block it from actually spawning anything while it still absorbs pollution.
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Jul 31, 2019 21:31
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Olesh posted:It sounds like you're arguing that you don't know which nests will send attacks until your pollution cloud grows enough to start overlapping the nests, which I disagree with. Your pollution cloud grows gradually as you pollute more; if you're regularly paying attention to your pollution cloud you should have a very good idea which nests will be triggered by pollution first, and thus you can anticipate where attacks will originate in advance of pollution reaching those nests. In my experience the first attack tends to come before I've had any motivation to explore the map and find nests. And not knowing when the attack comes means I often don't prepare well enough for it and lose a fair chunk of my factory. And that's with me knowing how biters work and roughly what to expect; it'd be worse for a new player. Mostly my experience with the first biter attack in a game generally gets me reflecting that the initial difficulty curve with them could do with being smoother - like having four or five small biters charge you while you're still at the burner stage, and your factory is small enough that they're going to run into you personally pretty much immediately, rather than not getting any until you've got your industry well set up and the factory is already several screens large and you can easily be in the wrong part of it to respond to a new threat. Olesh posted:Just so we're clear - under the system you propose, the pollution cloud mechanic would be irrelevant because the determiner of biter attacks would have nothing to do with whether or not nests are being polluted or which nests are being affected. Total pollution generated would be the determining factor for attacks (with the nearest base(s) being the origin of attacks), with increasing amount of pollution ramping up the number/strength of attack waves? More or less - I'd imagine the pollution cloud to still affect which parts of your factory biters target, but that's more about "where my pollution cloud is at its highest density" rather than "where my pollution cloud is at the border of 0". Olesh posted:Under your proposed changes, destroying biter bases becomes less appealing in general because if you destroy one of the "close" bases that's sending attacks, you aren't reducing the amount of biters coming in - instead, you've simply redirected the incoming attack waves to start coming from a new direction where you may or may not have any static defenses built. This creates an incentive to not destroy any biter bases unless absolutely necessary - if you go out and clear biter bases, suddenly you don't really know where the next attack waves will come from until they appear, which seems to be the opposite of what you intended. Exactly. I think the game benefits from combat being predictable and defensive, as it's a design and engineering challenge rather than one of reflexes and personal tactics. You're not wrong about the flaws in my suggestion, but I think those problems are something that could be refined if Wube (or I guess a sufficiently determined modder) wanted to actually implemented. It doesn't have to be specifically the closest nests, for instance; you could just have them come from all nests that have been loaded into the map, or something. I'm not deep-diving game design here, just brainstorming ways the current biter system could be improved. Tenebrais fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Jul 31, 2019 |
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Jul 31, 2019 21:39
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Peaceful mode and no expansion is the way I play. I like to turn them all into little zoos along the road. The combat is anti-fun to me at this point. I know I could kill them all, but I'd rather just build something else.
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Aug 1, 2019 16:42
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Having jumped in to a fresh map a few days ago my initial impression of the oil refining change is very positive. It makes the step from green to blue science a straightforward incremental task, it feels to me like they have moved blue science from being the start of the mid-game to being the end of the early-game in a way that makes a lot of sense.
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Aug 2, 2019 18:44
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Ambaire posted:A fuckton of trains and a solid rail infrastructure. If you'd like an example, here's my save from AssemblyStorm's gigafactory server from early March. 0.17.x experimental version, ~170MB. Each of the modular science setups on the map is capable of 1000SPM, fed by a network of trains. That save also has a lot of other neat stuff, like a pseudo logistics train setup for building new bases and a crazy defensive arty wall thing. I finally got enough free time to play this map and it's amazing. It seems that instead of building many thousands of furnaces the answer is lots and lots of beacons.
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Aug 2, 2019 18:58
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More beacons and modules than you think you'll need. The module build up is one of the slower parts of getting into a megabase.
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Aug 2, 2019 20:19
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I was gonna ask you guys what changed recently about oil processing, but then I realized I hadn't opted into betas for the game, so I hadn't seen the changes yet. After reading through the change log, I wanna see how things have changed. Do I have to start a new map to see them, or will the changes be there when I load in my current one?
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Aug 2, 2019 22:56
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neogeo0823 posted:I was gonna ask you guys what changed recently about oil processing, but then I realized I hadn't opted into betas for the game, so I hadn't seen the changes yet. After reading through the change log, I wanna see how things have changed. Do I have to start a new map to see them, or will the changes be there when I load in my current one? It's the basic recipe, its petro only now, and I didnt use advanced before the change since I set oil up the night before the parch but it's basically the same output but better as the old basic, but it does require water. If you can hook water up to the other line in your processors and switch them to adv you shouldn't notice much of a difference. The point of the change was to make it easier to learn for a new player.
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Aug 2, 2019 23:02
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pixaal posted:It's the basic recipe, its petro only now, and I didnt use advanced before the change since I set oil up the night before the parch but it's basically the same output but better as the old basic, but it does require water. I guess what I'm getting at is, I had literally just set up basic oil and gotten to red circuits as of last night. When I next load in, I'll be like 2 minutes away from having advanced oil processing researched. I have yet to set up a proper refinery, since I was waiting for advanced to unlock to do so. If I load the game up now, on that map, will everything that changed update and break poo poo horribly, or will it apply next time I make a new map?
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Aug 2, 2019 23:06
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neogeo0823 posted:I guess what I'm getting at is, I had literally just set up basic oil and gotten to red circuits as of last night. When I next load in, I'll be like 2 minutes away from having advanced oil processing researched. I have yet to set up a proper refinery, since I was waiting for advanced to unlock to do so. If I load the game up now, on that map, will everything that changed update and break poo poo horribly, or will it apply next time I make a new map? If past accounts are anything to go by, your refineries will still be there, but they'll look goofie and won't be running. If it is as small as you describe, it'll be like 4 minutes of right clicking on your pipes to move them.
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Aug 2, 2019 23:11
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Ok, so just take down the 3 oil buildings I had set up to do basic processing, and look for any other weird looking poo poo and remake that as well? That I can do. EDIT: SO... apparently I was on version 0.16.5-something, and just updated to 0.17.56. The changelog was... kinda huge. Guess I should get started on a new map though, cause, gently caress. I didn't even realize I never updated after I last played way last year. neogeo0823 fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Aug 2, 2019 |
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Aug 2, 2019 23:15
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neogeo0823 posted:Ok, so just take down the 3 oil buildings I had set up to do basic processing, and look for any other weird looking poo poo and remake that as well? That I can do. Don't take them down, switch them to advanced and pipe water to the back of them, set up a train to move the water if you need to. Advanced is the same recipe with more output as the old basic only you have to add water too.
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Aug 2, 2019 23:26
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Luckily Factorio is very backwards compatible so it’s much faster to just deal with the migration and changes in your base than start over.
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Aug 2, 2019 23:36
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pixaal posted:Don't take them down, switch them to advanced and pipe water to the back of them, set up a train to move the water if you need to. Advanced is the same recipe with more output as the old basic only you have to add water too. Yo, this dude jumped from .16 to current beta. Yo man, all your science is hosed! Any engines, hosed. Welcome to the present day. Don't start over, it is like weeding a garden. Edit: dude has heavy oil and light oil pipes and tanks to deal with, they need to come down if he is revamping that oil space.
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Aug 2, 2019 23:52
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My gaming machine is a windows box with no wifi card, and in my new living arrangement, no internet. Factorio is installed on it, but is a few versions behind. Is there any way for me to download updates on my mac, and USB them over to the desktop? Its installed through Steam, unfortunately.
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Aug 3, 2019 00:01
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if you go to factorio.com and log in you can download the zip straight from there e: https://www.factorio.com/download/experimental for latest
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Aug 3, 2019 00:03
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There's also no drm on the steam version iirc, so you can just grab the files from some place with free wifi and play offline fine. I don't think that's changed?
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Aug 3, 2019 00:08
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utamaru posted:if you go to factorio.com and log in you can download the zip straight from there I tried twice to login with my steam credentials (which work) but get the error: Could not log in, no connected account found. Do I have to link my Steam account with Factorio account somehow? DelphiAegis posted:There's also no drm on the steam version iirc, so you can just grab the files from some place with free wifi and play offline fine. I don't know how to download a windows version of the game on my mac, is the issue.
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Aug 3, 2019 00:19
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You do not log into their website with your steam account. You have (or can create) a Factorio account and link it to your Steam account.
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Aug 3, 2019 00:26
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