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greatn posted:Getting a lot of Obama payroll tax hike stuff today. Nobody wanted to extend it because it was threatening to put Social Security on the road to insolvency. It should have never passed in the first place but the common man needed some type of concession after the Republicans held the country hostage to extend Bush's tax cuts.
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Jan 15, 2013 21:03
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zeroprime posted:Not that an originalist argument necessarily means much anyways. The Bill of Rights was arguably more about protecting the states from the federal government than it was about protecting individuals from The State. I've heard people advocate this reading. But I'm not sure how seriously they take it. If we accept the logic that the 2nd amendment is there to give states (rather than the federal government) the power to regulate firearm access, then federal bans become unconstitutional. But I don't think I've seen the proponents of this reading identify any potential laws that would be made unconstitutional by the amendment. Instead, the argument seems like a way of seeming to address the 2nd, without actually giving it any effect.
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Jan 15, 2013 21:09
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*sigh* Another email from my grandma about 'dem niggers. Sometimes I wish I could man up and tell her to cram it, but my mom is sick and that would probably kill her
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Jan 15, 2013 21:10
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Sarion posted:I think a better tactic maybe to point out that such protections are now meaningless given the massive difference between home owned weapons and what the American Military is capable of. And when they claim that obviously the military will side with citizens, you can just post this: A guy I know was just talking about how the military would obviously side with the people in the event of a civil war. Personally, I can't see it, because the generals will side with the government, which means >90% of officers down to maybe 1LTs will all side with the government, which means >90% of NCOs down to probably SGT will all side with the government.... His response was something about how "soldiers [and sailors and airmen and marines] know that their paycheck ultimately comes from the people", but in my experience most soldiers only know that they get paid by Uncle Sam. He also makes the mistake of thinking that a civil war will be 100% of the people versus the government, when in reality it's probably going to be a bunch of idiots that compose no more than 10% of the populace declaring for the new Confederacy or some poo poo (and of that 10%, 3% of them will be able-bodied people who can fight and the rest will be retired Baby Boomers that weigh 300+ pounds and need a motorized cart to get around). It's interesting that you post that picture, because we (me and this guy) had a discussion a while back about why being college-educated seems to make you a liberal, and he specifically pointed to the Kent State incident as an event that was skewed by liberals into the massacre we know it as. He believes that the National Guardsmen were perfectly justified in opening fire on a group of unarmed students because some one person fired a shot at them first (which is an account that is still debated). Even if one person or even multiple people had fired at them, I believe that does not excuse responding by firing at people who are clearly unarmed.
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Jan 15, 2013 21:51
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Hey want to know the result of people posting conspiracy videos of the Sandy Hook shooting? Howabout a guy that is constantly being harassed for bringing the kids in to the safety of his home and contact their parents. http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/gene-rosen-sandy-hook-conspiracy-155033813.html Here's an example of the emails he's been getting, along with harassing phone calls, hang-ups, etc: quote:How are all those little students doing? You know, the ones that showed up at your house after the ‘shooting’. What is the going rate for getting involved in a gov’t sponsored hoax anyway?
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Jan 15, 2013 22:47
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Eulogistics posted:A guy I know was just talking about how the military would obviously side with the people in the event of a civil war. Personally, I can't see it, because the generals will side with the government, which means >90% of officers down to maybe 1LTs will all side with the government, which means >90% of NCOs down to probably SGT will all side with the government.... His response was something about how "soldiers [and sailors and airmen and marines] know that their paycheck ultimately comes from the people", but in my experience most soldiers only know that they get paid by Uncle Sam. He also makes the mistake of thinking that a civil war will be 100% of the people versus the government, when in reality it's probably going to be a bunch of idiots that compose no more than 10% of the populace declaring for the new Confederacy or some poo poo (and of that 10%, 3% of them will be able-bodied people who can fight and the rest will be retired Baby Boomers that weigh 300+ pounds and need a motorized cart to get around). I like this post because your first paragraph raises an interesting question and then your second one answers it. Q: In a civil war, who is part of "the people" and who is the other side? A: "The people" always seems to refer to everyone who thinks just like the speaker, and is always assumed to be more than a tiny minority. Anyone who disagrees isn't a person/American/etc and we needn't concern ourselves with their ideas or well-being.
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Jan 15, 2013 22:49
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Ringo Star Get posted:Hey want to know the result of people posting conspiracy videos of the Sandy Hook shooting? Howabout a guy that is constantly being harassed for bringing the kids in to the safety of his home and contact their parents. ^^ Here is a better question in a Civil War who wins guns or drones? Since that is the way it will be. Well that has caused me to hate humanity a little more today.
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Jan 15, 2013 22:49
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The most mind boggling stupid part of the whole Sandy Hook conspiracy theory is the belief that it was the same women involved with that and the movie theater massacre. I mean... why? Jesus loving christ they don't even look that similar.  Its willing stupidity on a level that Ive previously never experienced and its driving me nuts.
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Jan 16, 2013 00:08
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Okay, Now, I've sure we've seen all the pro-gun meme's but I haven't seen anything countering them. Anti-Gun Philosoraptor It's currently spreading like wildfire on my facebook and getting some really nasty comments - does anyone else have some better ideas?
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Jan 16, 2013 00:19
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What is it about the Sandy Hook shooting conspiracy that is giving it so much traction across the internet? There have always been crazy convoluted conspiracy theories for everything but for some reason this one is actually breaking into mainstream discourse. Even 911 truthers never got this far. I have NEVER seen a conspiracy rant on my Facebook before this, suddenly tons of "friends" are posting that god drat video and commenting how it makes them think. This has got to be symptomatic of the general terribleness of American culture but hell if I know enough to get into it.
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Jan 16, 2013 01:27
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Why do the gun control=Hitler memes get around, but not this one?
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Jan 16, 2013 01:32
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:What is it about the Sandy Hook shooting conspiracy that is giving it so much traction across the internet? There have always been crazy convoluted conspiracy theories for everything but for some reason this one is actually breaking into mainstream discourse. Even 911 truthers never got this far. I have NEVER seen a conspiracy rant on my Facebook before this, suddenly tons of "friends" are posting that god drat video and commenting how it makes them think. This has got to be symptomatic of the general terribleness of American culture but hell if I know enough to get into it. Because 9/11 happened under Republican watch and you know the GOP is all about telling the truth! Sandy Hook happened under Obummer and THE LIEBRAL MEDIA is not telling you the truth so Barry and the libs can take your guns. The same person that told me that I was crazy for even questioning the official story of 9/11 is a Sandy Hook is a false flag conspiracy theorist. I want to choke him.
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Jan 16, 2013 01:35
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:What is it about the Sandy Hook shooting conspiracy that is giving it so much traction across the internet? There have always been crazy convoluted conspiracy theories for everything but for some reason this one is actually breaking into mainstream discourse. Even 911 truthers never got this far. I have NEVER seen a conspiracy rant on my Facebook before this, suddenly tons of "friends" are posting that god drat video and commenting how it makes them think. This has got to be symptomatic of the general terribleness of American culture but hell if I know enough to get into it. I think it's people who get to a point that they would have to make a conscious decision that they value their penis-extension guns more than the life of children. At this point they either have to admit that they're terrible people, or escape to a fantasy world where the shooting never happened and everybody is an actor.
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Jan 16, 2013 01:35
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Tab8715 posted:Okay, For some reason I can't link the images, but these were the best I could do: meaning - not very good. http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3skycb/ http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3sky6s/ But I tend to find that memes work better for things that are simple, and portrayed as "black or white". Nuance and complexity are not the hallmarks of catchy viral messages, but they're pretty much required for good legislation.
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Jan 16, 2013 02:25
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My family's in NY. As I've mentioned in other threads, they live about 30 minutes south from Webster, the place where the Christmas Eve Day shooting happened. I just talked to my mom and mentioned the Sandy Hook/Aurora conspiracy theories. She hadn't heard about them before. She was so appalled I thought she was going to cry. She manages a housing complex, where some of the residents are quite interesting to say the least. One resident was chatting with her today about how Andrew Cuomo clearly wants to be president - "if he lives long enough to run, that is." My mom just smiled and nodded because she knows this guy has a mini arsenal in his apartment. I really wish she could find a different job. 
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Jan 16, 2013 02:50
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Regarding the conspiracy stuff; I really think Sandy Hook (and Benghazi for that matter) have really taken off to new levels because of social media, and nothing more. If facebook, twitter, tumblr, etc had been around and popular during 9/11 the Truther poo poo would probably have been just as bad. e: At least that's what I tell myself so I can sleep at night 
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Jan 16, 2013 03:46
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Sarion posted:Regarding the conspiracy stuff; I really think Sandy Hook (and Benghazi for that matter) have really taken off to new levels because of social media, and nothing more. If facebook, twitter, tumblr, etc had been around and popular during 9/11 the Truther poo poo would probably have been just as bad. And the complete unwillingness of the news to call them out officially as just batshit insane.
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Jan 16, 2013 03:48
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I somehow think an attempted media takedown of the conspiracy would only feed into their paranoid fantasies.
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Jan 16, 2013 03:52
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Poizen Jam posted:I somehow think an attempted media takedown of the conspiracy would only feed into their paranoid fantasies. I just mean in general. For the past 10 years we've cultivated an environment where everyone's opinion is sane and valid and now it's too late to turn back.
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Jan 16, 2013 03:55
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Sarion posted:Regarding the conspiracy stuff; I really think Sandy Hook (and Benghazi for that matter) have really taken off to new levels because of social media, and nothing more. If facebook, twitter, tumblr, etc had been around and popular during 9/11 the Truther poo poo would probably have been just as bad. My fiancee watched that video I posted earlier (sandy hook conspiracy) and said it was making good points, and that because they were showing (some) stuff from TV it must be true but hard to believe. She goes on the internet for Facebook and email so her bullshit detector  ". Just saying "the InfoWars tag is at the bottom of the video so you can safely ignore it because jesus christ infowars is the site the bottom of the barrel thinks is purestrain bullshit" wouldn't be effective.
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Jan 16, 2013 03:55
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:What is it about the Sandy Hook shooting conspiracy that is giving it so much traction across the internet? There have always been crazy convoluted conspiracy theories for everything but for some reason this one is actually breaking into mainstream discourse. Even 911 truthers never got this far. I have NEVER seen a conspiracy rant on my Facebook before this, suddenly tons of "friends" are posting that god drat video and commenting how it makes them think. This has got to be symptomatic of the general terribleness of American culture but hell if I know enough to get into it. Maybe it makes them feel better, to pretend it didn't happen. Because the alternative is that they are giving their hobby, more importance than dead kids. eta: peak dept said the same thing only better! Kat R. Waulin fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Jan 16, 2013 |
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Jan 16, 2013 04:32
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A relative keeps trying to get my husband to join the NRA. He posted this link, to the membership page, on my husband's fb wall. http://membership.nrahq.org/ The video is so cheesy, it reminds me of the intro to The Colbert Report.
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Jan 16, 2013 05:11
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Kat R. Waulin posted:A relative keeps trying to get my husband to join the NRA. He posted this link, to the membership page, on my husband's fb wall. http://membership.nrahq.org/ With the number of posters in TFR talking about how they became lifetime members of the NRA today they probably don't need his money.
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Jan 16, 2013 05:28
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MC Nietzche posted:With the number of posters in TFR talking about how they became lifetime members of the NRA today they probably don't need his money. Holy poo poo, that thread. I read the whole thing and I'm not sure if my sanity came out along with me. So much of that thread could be posted here or in the Freep thread and not even be distinguished as different. For content: I've managed to avoid Facebook political drama pretty well so far, but now some is brewing in response to me posting this about the Hurricane Sandy Relief bill that passed: Me: House Republicans just voted 49-179 against passing of Hurricane Sandy relief funding. Luckily it passed because House Democrats 192-1 for it (the shitheel holdout is Jim Cooper from TN). Please consider this the next time "Both parties are really just the same!" is uttered. Friend's Dad (Who is a "middle of the road but actually kinda terrible" type political person): The $17bn immediate aid was passed easily in a bipartisan effort--thankfully. It was the supplemental $34bn (long-term aid and prevention investment) that caused some concern. I agree with the $17bn immediate aid (this should have been the original bill weeks ago,) but I believe state sovereignty should require NJ and NY taxpayers pony up the funds rather than blanket it across all taxpayers. I responded saying that disaster relief is something that the federal government should do, because all areas of the country are affected by disaster at some point. I also corrected his numbers. Thoughts on how to respond if he goes further down the rabbit hole?
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Jan 16, 2013 05:37
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WampaLord posted:Thoughts on how to respond if he goes further down the rabbit hole? Just ask him if he thinks we're one nation or fifty-states. If we're one nation than sometimes we have to give each other a hand, that's how it works. If he says fifty-states, then respond the states are like brothers, they're supposed to stand shoulder-to-shoulder, stronger together than we are apart. Would he tell his family to go screw if they needed his help? edit: also yes, that TFR thread makes me want to weep. So many single-issue Democrats it's painful.
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Jan 16, 2013 05:41
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WampaLord posted:Holy poo poo, that thread. I read the whole thing and I'm not sure if my sanity came out along with me. Ask him what happens when dirt poor states like Mississippi get devastated (ala Katrina)... how on earth would they pony up and pay that?
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Jan 16, 2013 05:46
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Has a point by point deconstruction of the Sandy Hook conspiracy theories been assembled yet? Because I could seriously use one so I don't have to continue getting into mind boggling arguments with people I know on Facebook. This whole thing is seriously starting to unnerve me, far too many normally sensible people are starting to buy into this kind of crazed stuff. Theres not an ounce of critical thinking to be seen. And unlike many usual anti-intellectual attitudes we see everyday I strongly believe that this is actively dangerous. Shimrra Jamaane fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Jan 16, 2013 |
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Jan 16, 2013 05:54
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Has a point by point deconstruction of the Sandy Hook conspiracy theories been assembled yet? Because I could seriously use one so I don't have to continue getting into mind boggling arguments with people I know on Facebook. Good old snopes usually has the debunks. http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/newtown.asp
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Jan 16, 2013 06:13
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BonoMan posted:And the complete unwillingness of the news to call them out officially as just batshit insane. Anderson Cooper did a couple days ago: http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/bestoftv/2013/01/12/ac-kth-newtown-conspiracies.cnn myron cope posted:My fiancee watched that video I posted earlier (sandy hook conspiracy) and said it was making good points, and that because they were showing (some) stuff from TV it must be true but hard to believe. I had to have a similar conversation with my brother today. He watched that same video and is of the jaundiced opinion that "given everything that's happened in the past few years," he "wouldn't be surprised by anything." I introduced him to the concept of Occam's Razor and reminded him of basically the same thing you said about breaking news and media. I think he got it, but I'll send him some links to make sure. swiss_army_chainsaw fucked around with this message at 06:58 on Jan 16, 2013 |
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Jan 16, 2013 06:53
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L-O-N posted:Good old snopes usually has the debunks. I can't use snopes to refute arguments because the site gets accused of "liberal media bias". Furthermore someone posted a link called "Snopes got snopes'd" which is full of bullshit thats been refuted on multiple sites. This same person also takes the site "regancoaltion" and "newsmax" as the word of God. Is there even a way to talk to this level of crazy? 
SalTheBard fucked around with this message at 07:35 on Jan 16, 2013 |
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Jan 16, 2013 07:20
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SalTheBard posted:I can't use snopes to refute arguments because the site gets accused of "liberal media bias". Furthermore someone posted a link called "Snopes got snopes'd" which is full of bullshit thats been refuted on multiple sites. This same person also takes the site "regancoaltion" and "newsmax" as the word of God. My solution to people who think Snopes is biased is to stop talking to them in any fashion.
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Jan 16, 2013 07:27
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Goatman Sacks posted:My solution to people who think Snopes is biased is to stop talking to them in any fashion. This is sadly the best action, either they're idiot XKCD followers or just insane. If you want to do a bit more work, you can try to find what Snopes links to with citations.
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Jan 16, 2013 07:33
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Never just link to Snopes. Read the Snopes page and explain it yourself.
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Jan 16, 2013 08:35
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LP97S posted:This is sadly the best action, either they're idiot XKCD followers or just insane. XKCD, the webcomic with math and stick figures? Does it have an anti-Snopes history I'm not aware of?
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Jan 16, 2013 08:55
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Leospeare posted:XKCD, the webcomic with math and stick figures? Does it have an anti-Snopes history I'm not aware of? Some people didn't think this was a joke, I guess.
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Jan 16, 2013 09:08
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His list of Executive Actions to take include things like: "enforcing laws passed by Congress that are often ignored" and "nominate someone to head the ATF after 6 years of the position being empty". You know, unconstitutional stuff!
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Jan 16, 2013 14:38
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I can top that:  I also see the Sandy Hook conspiracy theory video being passed around every white SAHM on my friends list with multiple kids under five.
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Jan 16, 2013 15:58
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Remember this when you see anyone with a dog: Hitler owned a German Sheppard. That would probably be my only retort. I guess since the whole 'Hitler was for gun control!' thing didn't stick they're seeking new and interesting ways to associate Obama with Hitler.
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Jan 16, 2013 16:08
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I decided to catch up on this thread and a lot of it made me really quite sad. Not just because of the things that get spread around, the conspiracy theories and the lies and so on. It's all the people saying that their brother, father, spouse, aunt, whoever is the one spreading this around and that they won't say anything to avoid upsetting family. Because that's why these things continue, because people won't stand up to the bullshit. C'mon, people! A little more  and maybe we can make the world just the tiniest bit better  fakeedit: I love the "If you think the children are the most important, REMEMBER HITLER" image. Doesn't the message behind that just scream 'gently caress You, Got Mine'?
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Jan 16, 2013 16:55
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I think it's official, they have won. They have reached the point where they're arguing "doing things to protect children is bad because Hitler was in favor of doing things to help children". And they're arguing this point unironically.
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Jan 16, 2013 17:25
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