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Phil Moscowitz posted:Adar is talking about gambling law, casinos, online poker, horse racing, etc. Not easy to break in though as it is an insular market.
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Apr 22, 2012 00:24
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Phil Moscowitz posted:Adar is talking about gambling law, casinos, online poker, horse racing, etc. That makes much more sense.
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Apr 22, 2012 01:11
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On Friday, I'm done. My 3Litis has been acting up so bad... One of my classes gave an option at the beginning of the semester: write a long paper (15 pages, 20 for advanced writing requirement), or write a short 5-7 page paper for a midterm and do a final exam. Now, I know at least 4 fellow 3Ls here who were very proud about how they have no finals this semester but they have 4 papers to write...which, of course, they have barely begun, because they are 3Ls, and they don't care. Now, they hate life. I'll just do a stupid final exam, I figure, have it take a few hours, and move on with my life, right? Imagine my disgust when the final exam turned out to be a paper.
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Apr 23, 2012 00:47
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buzzsaw.gif posted:On Friday, I'm done. My 3Litis has been acting up so bad... It seems like your professor flat out lied to you, then. That's pretty hosed up.
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Apr 23, 2012 04:07
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Your professor has his/her trollface on.
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Apr 23, 2012 06:28
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When U.S. students talk about length of papers in pages, is there some universal formatting standard which translates into an average of so many words per page? Papers are always measured by wordcount in Australia.
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Apr 23, 2012 08:32
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Cwapface posted:When U.S. students talk about length of papers in pages, is there some universal formatting standard which translates into an average of so many words per page? Papers are always measured by wordcount in Australia.
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Apr 23, 2012 08:35
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Linguica posted:12 point double spaced Times New Roman with inch-or-so margins is pretty standard, which comes out to like, 300 or 350 words a page, I think.
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Apr 23, 2012 09:00
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Cwapface posted:When U.S. students talk about length of papers in pages, is there some universal formatting standard which translates into an average of so many words per page? Papers are always measured by wordcount in Australia.
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Apr 23, 2012 10:31
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Yes...I, too, was amazed at how many pages you can write in an hour when you use Courier New 12.
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Apr 23, 2012 14:04
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Cwapface posted:Thanks, you make a lot of sense. You're right, I really don't know if employment opportunities abound in legal academia. Though I can't imagine they're worse than in philosophy. There's a small market outside academia for ethicists, which is what I am. But then I'm not really the right kind of ethicist. Hi Cwapface. I'm an Australian QUT law student studying my final subject right now. I can tell you that legal academia certainly is a lot easier to get a foothold into than humanities, there is no question about that. As for your prospects outside academia, that really depends a lot on your undergraduate GPA. I guess it really depends what you want out of the program. I've got an academic at QUT encouraging me to consider law academia. In order to get into academia at an Australian law school you would need at least a very good GPA in a Masters by coursework or research program. You have to really consider whether that is what you want to do. At QUT here contract lecturer positions start at approx 70k and Professor level gets you up to about 160k. This is all public information available. If you want to be an academic UQ is actually very good at teaching you to be an academic; it's a very theoretical abstract law school. I always wanted to practise so am quite happy with QUT but certainly if someone wanted to be an academic UQ would be a good start. There is no question however you'd need a Masters with a good grade average before youd be considered and ideally honours in your undergrad law. If you don't already know that, honours in a law degree is really really hard to do. The kind of law schools that you're talking about going to in Australia (and mine included) don't hand out High Distinctions that easily. That being said, if you're prepared to make a commitment to legal academia and don't mind further study to get a masters level qualification I suppose it could work. Outside that, private practice is really flooded with law graduates. It's not quite as bad as the US by any means, but competition for law graduates in private practice is cut-throat and undergraduate GPA is a major criterion. I'm looking at graduating in July and am unsure about my prospects, but I'm more than willing to look outside the private legal profession and consider things like state/federal government work (a law degree is almost always a plus in the public service). Sorry i hope this is of some help. I've recently been thinking about legal academia myself, as long as I make the cut in the Master of Laws by coursework program here at QUT. If you can get a tutoring job or two once you have the degree that will also be looked on highly. I hope this was of some assistance as it was typed out at incredible haste (i dont keep up much with this thread any more).
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Apr 23, 2012 14:13
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Most of that information I'm relying on from what I myself was told by an academic here at QUT who is encouraging me to consider it. I'm still not sure. The idea of getting a law PhD is flat out ridiculous to me considering the amount of effort that would involve but given you're nearly done with a philosophy PhD perhaps you would find that career track okay. Law PhDs are becoming increasingly common in Australian legal academia but it isn't impossible to make your way through purely with a Masters. I would think it almost impossible purely with an undergraduate LLB however. Outside of that, a law degree certainly wouldn't do your career any prospects of harm. This thread isn't great for comparisons as US law students study as a postgraduate. This rules out a lot of the generalist graduate programs Australian law graduates can go with (Eg Federal APS) and government and public sector jobs usually always look highly on legal qualifications. If you'd be thinking about private legal practice it would be more cut-throat but not impossible if your marks are good. We also have nowhere near the debt load of US law students. I would say practising as a barrister straight out of law school is almost impossible unless you are the son of a judge or have networked extremely well. That's because barristers really have to hustle for work when they're new and if you havent got the existing connections among solicitors (from whom you will get work) it would be a very difficult experience to make it.
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Apr 23, 2012 14:32
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Millennial posted:Hi Cwapface. I'm an Australian QUT law student studying my final subject right now. I can tell you that legal academia certainly is a lot easier to get a foothold into than humanities, there is no question about that. As for your prospects outside academia, that really depends a lot on your undergraduate GPA. I guess it really depends what you want out of the program. For reference's sake, this post is two pages in double-spaced Courier New 12pt with 1" margins
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Apr 23, 2012 14:35
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TL;DR: What I am trying to convey is that the world of law does not care about metaethics or similar, at all, and a preoccupation with such will harm your chances of success in that world. This excludes legal academia, however. Cwapface posted:Ha. Can you elaborate? What makes you say that? It might have been the "relationship between science and religion thread" but I couldn't find your posts in there - but in the process, I re-read some of your posts in the "what is good" thread. As someone who studied philosophy in undergrad, including several seminars on contemporary philosophers of the "postmodern" bent, I found the world of law to be wholly disconnected from the sort of intellectual discussions that we see among philosophy people. I know you love metaethics, and you really seem to dig it, but law is, for the most part, about business and economics. (With a few exceptions, like crimlaw or the rare First Amendment practice.) Coming from a philosophy background, I found law school to be alien and completely intolerant of the sort of thinking that I was used to. The sort of thinking that you show in your posts about ethics and philosophy is perfectly fine for the world of philosophy, including some areas of legal academia, but is completely useless in legal practice (and, in fact, it actually gets in your way). I'm not saying that you are stupid or wrong, I'm just saying that philosophy people have to make a tectonic shift in their brains to really connect with legal thinking. There are some exceptions to this: analytic philosophers have an easier time, what with their fetish on logic and the truth values of statements and blah bla blah. Another exception is those rare philosophers who end up in legal academia, where philosophical circle-jerking is expected and rewarded. But for people, like yourself, who focus on ethics or contemporary continental philosophy, the shift to law can be jarring and unpleasant. So if you want to remain the person you are today, then you need to stay in legal academia once you get out of law school - and here in the U.S., that is all but impossible unless you go to a top 5 school or so. I don't know how it is in Australia. Maybe with a joint degree it is easier to stay in academia over there? I dunno. If you don't mind refocusing your intellectual energies, and you don't mind giving up a lot of your current intellectual pursuits, then you can go to law school with the intention of finding a job in legal practice. also, to elaborate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57vCBMqnC1Y In that video, the practice of law is the black dude, and you are the red-headed philosophy dude. entris fucked around with this message at 15:17 on Apr 23, 2012 |
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Apr 23, 2012 14:38
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Just wanted to thank the people who sent me Secured Transactions stuff again; it really helped and I feel pretty good about the exam. The Q&A was particularly helpful. Also nm, thanks for your responses in the death penalty thread. You're like one of three people arguing in a non-pedantic fashion. entris posted:TL;DR: What I am trying to convey is that the world of law does not care about metaethics or similar, at all, and a preoccupation with such will harm your chances of success in that world. This excludes legal academia, however. During cocktails after a callback, one of my interviewers pretty much openly mocked a kid who talked about legal philosophy and jurisprudence for the bulk of his interview.
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Apr 23, 2012 15:54
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entris posted:There are some exceptions to this: analytic philosophers have an easier time, what with their fetish on logic and the truth values of statements and blah bla blah. Guess all of my History and Public Admin friends are feeling pretty silly about deriding my Computer Science degree  The OP is pretty gloomy so I'd like someone to give a frank assessment of my current plan. I am graduating with a degree in computer science and taking a year off to work. At the end of that year I'll have two years as a Software Engineer and 4 years total in the software industry. I'll attend Minnesota or UW, as I am a Wisconsin resident and apply for reciprocity in Minnesota. The plan is to get into IP ~somewhere~. Is this reasonable or is IP not actually a thing and more like "international law"? Is the market for people with science backgrounds a little better than the rest of the (apparently dismal) job market right now?
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Apr 23, 2012 16:19
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AgentSythe posted:Guess all of my History and Public Admin friends are feeling pretty silly about deriding my Computer Science degree Get a job at the USPTO. If you like what you're doing, consider going to law school.
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Apr 23, 2012 16:29
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AgentSythe posted:I am graduating with a degree in computer science and taking a year off to work. At the end of that year I'll have two years as a Software Engineer and 4 years total in the software industry. I'll attend Minnesota or UW, as I am a Wisconsin resident and apply for reciprocity in Minnesota. The plan is to get into IP ~somewhere~. Is this reasonable or is IP not actually a thing and more like "international law"? I keep seeing openings both for patent prosecutors and for patent litigators with computer science degrees, for what that's worth.
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Apr 23, 2012 16:33
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AgentSythe posted:The OP is pretty gloomy so I'd like someone to give a frank assessment of my current plan. As gloomy as it sounds, the OP pretty much IS a frank assessment of any law school plan that has "going to law school" as an element.
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Apr 23, 2012 16:41
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ulmont posted:I keep seeing openings both for patent prosecutors and for patent litigators with computer science degrees, for what that's worth. They're all looking for laterals right now it seems.
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Apr 23, 2012 16:42
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Baruch Obamawitz posted:Get a job at the USPTO. If you like what you're doing, consider going to law school. This not only has the advantage of getting you some direct experience with patent prosecution (which is important on top of your relevant industry experience), it will also get you into the DC market, which is where a lot of the patent work is gravitating these days. More and more clients are requesting in-person interviews at the USPTO, which means firms in the DC metro area have an advantage for bringing in business, and consequently the market there is booming for IP attorneys. Also consider trying to find a job as a patent agent after you have a few years of software development experience. This will at least expose you to the prosecution side of things, and teach you how to draft a patent and argue with an examiner effectively. If you like it, you can even try to get your firm to foot the bill for law school. However, these jobs are somewhat harder to come by than attorney positions, because many firms flat-out do not hire practitioners without JDs. Being able to draft a patent will give you an important leg up with firms looking to hire for patent practices during on-campus interviewing. Most IP boutiques will also want to see your undergraduate transcript in addition to your law school grades, so hopefully you have a decent GPA.
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Apr 23, 2012 17:00
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Last night marked the end of an era and the beginning of a new one. My wife complained, for the first time, that "all you care about is billing your hours." (Nevermind that I set aside Friday night and my entire Saturday as wife+child time, and nevermind that I have set aside an hour each Monday and Wednesday night to go running with her!)
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Apr 23, 2012 17:25
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NJ Deac posted:This not only has the advantage of getting you some direct experience with patent prosecution (which is important on top of your relevant industry experience), it will also get you into the DC market, which is where a lot of the patent work is gravitating these days. More and more clients are requesting in-person interviews at the USPTO, which means firms in the DC metro area have an advantage for bringing in business, and consequently the market there is booming for IP attorneys. As mentioned earlier, I'm doing this same thing; but I wanted to point out that I directly asked during my interview with the USPTO about funding for law school. With the current budget cuts, they aren't doing that right now; so, don't expect law school tuition funding if you decide to work for the USPTO. Also, what is the difference between a Patent Agent and an Attorney? I assume the difference between Agent and Examiner is that Agent has to pass the Patent Bar, but the institution I went to for grad school is offering a year long (or maybe summer-long, I forget) Patent Agent program. I looked at that and scoffed, as I figured it was probably just another grab for my money.
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Apr 23, 2012 17:36
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entris posted:Since I started this job six months ago, my weekly alcohol consumption has gradually increased from 1 to 2 drinks a week to my current status, where I have the urge to drink every night but I only let myself drink 3 or 4 times a week (so far!). So the cycle continues.
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Apr 23, 2012 17:41
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crankdatbatman posted:Also, what is the difference between a Patent Agent and an Attorney? I assume the difference between Agent and Examiner is that Agent has to pass the Patent Bar, but the institution I went to for grad school is offering a year long (or maybe summer-long, I forget) Patent Agent program. I looked at that and scoffed, as I figured it was probably just another grab for my money. As far as prosecution is concerned, nothing except billable rate.
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Apr 23, 2012 17:42
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entris posted:Last night marked the end of an era and the beginning of a new one. My wife complained, for the first time, that "all you care about is billing your hours." You didn't ask for relationship advice so ignore if you don't care, but what she's more than likely really saying is that she is unable to connect/converse with you about things because she feels like your mind is on your work most of the time. Time spent together is only quality time if you can disconnect from the work context and connect to her on the basis of what is important to her and to your family. Disclaimer - you may be doing this, your wife may be crazy, she might have said something that she didn't mean. That said if you think she might be right or you're confused where she's coming from this is probably it.
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Apr 23, 2012 17:44
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crankdatbatman posted:As mentioned earlier, I'm doing this same thing; but I wanted to point out that I directly asked during my interview with the USPTO about funding for law school. With the current budget cuts, they aren't doing that right now; so, don't expect law school tuition funding if you decide to work for the USPTO. Patent agents work for law firms in more or less the same capacity as patent attorneys (with respect to patent prosecution), they just don't have a law degree. They generally aren't involved in litigation at all (since they're not members of the bar). Patent examiners work for the USPTO. While the government isn't going to foot the bill for a JD, a law firm that has hired you as a patent agent might, since they can then up your billing rate accordingly.
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Apr 23, 2012 17:57
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Feces Starship posted:You didn't ask for relationship advice so ignore if you don't care... I would lead off with: when we first started this relationship, my understanding -- as one of the creators of this said relationship -- of "quality time" was.... Therefore, I believe as applied to the current, changed circumstances, my then-expectations only require from contemporary me that.... If she starts raving about how a change in circumstances requires modifying your expectations, tell her that she should have made such a shift in understanding explicit at the time when the expectations actually shifted. Therefore, you would be able to accurately apply those modified expectations to future situations. Without such pegged intervals to refer to, the constantly-shifting expectations might require unforeseen expectations; getting angry about such failures is neither rational nor appropriate. Also, she should stop Breyering you. It's unbecoming.
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Apr 23, 2012 18:00
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entris posted:Last night marked the end of an era and the beginning of a new one. My wife complained, for the first time, that "all you care about is billing your hours." Spend an hour with her this week. At the end of that hour, pull out a $100 bill. Light it on fire. Say, "I hope that time we spent together was worth the 1/3 of the billable hour that comes back to me." Alternatively, spend a full weekend day with her and then throw $1,000 of kitchen appliances in the trash. She'll get the point.
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Apr 23, 2012 18:13
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Going with several other attorneys tonight to see Rammstein from a corporate box far above the unwashed masses. This should be a rewarding experience. I invited one of the lawgoons but he refused to go because he has a trial.
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Apr 23, 2012 18:13
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SlyFrog posted:Spend an hour with her this week. At the end of that hour, pull out a $100 bill. Light it on fire. Say, "I hope that time we spent together was worth the 1/3 of the billable hour that comes back to me." Hahahaha this is misogynistic as gently caress. Thanks for the relationship advice, but I got it handled. My wife and I actually have a great relationship, but we just moved in with my mother-in-law and boy howdy does that push some buttons.
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Apr 23, 2012 18:22
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HiddenReplaced posted:Going with several other attorneys tonight to see Rammstein from a corporate box far above the unwashed masses. This should be a rewarding experience. You get your rear end in that pit young man. Going to see Rammstein from box seats is like going to see Rush sober.
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Apr 23, 2012 18:41
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entris posted:Last night marked the end of an era and the beginning of a new one. My wife complained, for the first time, that "all you care about is billing your hours." Fortunately, animes don't complain if you spend 16 hours at the office 
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Apr 23, 2012 20:16
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HiddenReplaced posted:Going with several other attorneys tonight to see Rammstein from a corporate box A box seat for Rammstein? Boo. Boo. Rubbish. Filth. Slime. Muck. Boo. Boo. Boo. / 
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Apr 23, 2012 20:42
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I'm surprised to hear that there are corporate boxes for Rammstein concerts.
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Apr 23, 2012 20:54
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entris posted:I'm surprised to hear that there are corporate boxes for Rammstein concerts.
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Apr 23, 2012 20:59
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Bro Enlai posted:Fortunately, animes don't complain if you spend 16 hours at the office 
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Apr 23, 2012 21:06
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Haha, I just watched that episode last night. Why did it take me so long to start the second season of this show.
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Apr 23, 2012 21:10
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They decided "gently caress it, let's go full absurdist" the second season.
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Apr 23, 2012 21:27
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gvibes posted:Haha, I just watched that episode last night. Why did it take me so long to start the second season of this show. "El Sequestro" is particularly fantastic. How has the third season been? I haven't watched any of it yet.
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