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Okay so, potentially dumb Scion Hero 2e question, but given the phrasing in the book, I need to ask: Does getting access to a Purview via Relics or Guides also grant access to the Innate ability of that purview, or is that only granted when you select it as an Innate Purview at chargen? I ask because: p278 posted:A Scion gains power merely by claiming mastery over a Purview, awakening an innate divine power and the ability to command their domain through freeform marvels. p278 again posted:All Scions gain intrinsic access to one of their divine parent’s Purviews, chosen at character creation, as well as the Signature Purview of their pantheon. In order to gain access to other Purviews, they must either channel it through a suitable Relic (p. XX) or the blessings of a Guide (p. XX). If you lose access to the Relic or falls out of favor with a Guide, you cannot use any powers of the Purview they provide, including their innate powers. Makes it sound like both: - You gain the Innate power when you claim that Purview at chargen; this is how you gain the Innate power - Losing access to a Relic/Guide takes away access to the Innate power, implying you get that just for having the Purview So I'm inclined to believe that the resolution is "access to a Purview via Relic, Guide, or chargen selection gives you the Innate power of the Purview, for as long as you have said access" and I'm just overthinking things here. Also doesn't help that chargen is where you select your "Innate" Purview, and each Purview has an "Innate" power, so it feels like it would line up that way.
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Mar 18, 2018 17:07
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My impression is that having a Purview through a Birthright works just like having it innately, except you have to maintain access to the Birthright.
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Mar 18, 2018 17:21
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Correct. Just having a Purview by any means gives its innate power and the means to use it for marvels, either via your pantheon motif or your relic's motif.
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Mar 18, 2018 17:25
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Ok cool. Follow-up: So the second Fire Boon is just an Attacking Marvel except in Boon form. The only reason you'd want to take it would be so exercising that ability doesn't eat your 1/scene Marvel use, or without having to mess with justifying how it fits into a Motif, right? Since it gives you a Ranged (0), Aggravated (+2), Pushing (+1) attack for the scene, for expending Legend, which is exactly within Marvel guidelines.
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Mar 18, 2018 17:46
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:Ok cool. That, and Attacking Marvels require spending Legend while the Heaven's Fire boon only requires imbuing Legend, which is a straight upgrade. I really like the Spend vs. Imbue differentiation for the various powers. It's a little confusing at first, but as soon as you get the distinction it's very intuitive. It's probably easy to teach too.
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Mar 18, 2018 18:17
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EQFiddleCastrol posted:This may have been (and probably was) covered at length on numerous other occasions, but with the recent release of the Beast PG I gotta ask: what's the deal with the Advanced Merits? I think based on how David described them (and his wanting to put them in books but not being able to) they're being held off until the Crossover book.
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Mar 18, 2018 18:45
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Bendigeidfran posted:Kyzaghan's section stands out the most to me, with the WRESTLING RIVALRY against Takemikazuchi and his dislike for the Greco-Roman style. Like the Mongolian Yokozuna thing? More of that would be great. Made some shifts, and wrote up the Other Pantheons and Relations sections.
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Mar 18, 2018 20:33
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nofather posted:I think based on how David described them (and his wanting to put them in books but not being able to) they're being held off until the Crossover book. If the Contagion Chronicle contains even half of what I commonly see people saying they think will be in it, it'll be the size of Exalted 3rd ed. Which is to say, don't hold your breath on that one. Advanced Merits don't make it into other gamelines because they take up too much wordcount. Mage had room for one of them - Advanced Library.
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Mar 18, 2018 20:46
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Another thing I like about imbuing Legend is the way that increasing Legend allows your power to increase exponentially. Not only do you have more Boons to play with and can spend Legend more often, you can have more and more imbued powers active at a time, letting you throw around more effects at once.
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Mar 18, 2018 21:30
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So here's a Scion question: What the hell does the Armored tag do? There's a Warrior knack that grants it, but it doesn't appear anywhere in the section on Armor (or anywhere else that ctrl-F can find.)
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Mar 18, 2018 21:43
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ZiegeDame posted:So here's a Scion question: What the hell does the Armored tag do? There's a Warrior knack that grants it, but it doesn't appear anywhere in the section on Armor (or anywhere else that ctrl-F can find.) p145-Origin posted:Sample Armors Also, the Well Tempered Knack states: p130-Origin posted:Well Tempered: When you wear no armor, you are considered to have the Armored Tag. This benefit stacks with the increased difficulty of the inflict damage Stunt granted by any other armor you wear when you fight lesser foes (minor characters, or anyone a Tier lower than you).
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Mar 18, 2018 22:04
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Dave Brookshaw posted:If the Contagion Chronicle contains even half of what I commonly see people saying they think will be in it, it'll be the size of Exalted 3rd ed. if dark eras can be 600 pages why come not all books? lol that's still 60 pages less than EX3 christ what a brick
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Mar 19, 2018 00:27
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EQFiddleCastrol posted:This may have been (and probably was) covered at length on numerous other occasions, but with the recent release of the Beast PG I gotta ask: what's the deal with the Advanced Merits? In addition to all the other answers, the fact is most supernatural groups already had 'Advanced Merits', they just had splat specific names. Beasts are, among other things, weirdly powered. Some of the things they can do are crazy bullshit strong, and others are incredibly weak. Like it's entirely possible for Beast to just lose all their supernatural powers. Feeding is actually way more important for them than most other splats, because if they accidentally fill up they are effectively now human. And it's not entirely trivial for them to shake that condition off. You either need to completely fill your health with lethal, or you need to enter your Lair and do some stuff. The first one is obviously deadly, and the second one is as deadly as the Lair traits you picked and are no longer immune to. Bet you feel like a real rear end in a top hat about your pitch black, acid filled maze right about now. Their innate template gives them a lot of powers in very specific fields. They are primed to make friends with other supernaturals and jump dimensions....which is great, and situationally crazy bullshit powerful, but it's also not really very distinct. Advanced Merits get more of a focus because they are a relatively cheap way to differentiate your towering cyclops from a creature made of shadows and echoes, which just being a Beast and grabbing an Atavism or two doesn't quite manage. e: Of all the things that can be said about Beast, Advanced Merits aren't that big a deal. Mulva fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Mar 19, 2018 |
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Mar 19, 2018 02:02
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Mulva posted:In addition to all the other answers, the fact is most supernatural groups already had 'Advanced Merits', they just had splat specific names. It's really just this. There is no difference between an Advanced Iron Skin Merit and an Inhuman Resilience Merit that requires Iron Skin and has the same effects, and it's not ideal that Beast names its prerequisite Merits by this generic format regardless of whether it's something other supernatural beings could conceivably have (Advanced Library) or something specific to being a Beast (Advanced Giant). That, and it contributes to a sort of prerequisite bloat for Merit dots that you have to distribute among a long, long list of options, whereas most other Merits have prerequisites in Attributes or Skills.
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Mar 19, 2018 02:57
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So the 'Beasts are every splats buddy' thing - is that ever given validation beyond 'because.' 'Cause I'm sitting here reading the F&F on the books and think about the Uratha and how Beasts just by existing probably wreak all kinds of havoc on the spiritual landscape and increase the werewolves' workload by an order of magnitude. Like, kinda how Prometheans do it but for the Beasts it's premeditated.
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Mar 19, 2018 04:09
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Dawgstar posted:So the 'Beasts are every splats buddy' thing - is that ever given validation beyond 'because.' 'Cause I'm sitting here reading the F&F on the books and think about the Uratha and how Beasts just by existing probably wreak all kinds of havoc on the spiritual landscape and increase the werewolves' workload by an order of magnitude. Like, kinda how Prometheans do it but for the Beasts it's premeditated. Beasts explicitly have a sort of emotional resonance with other splats, I believe, due to 'all being children of the Dark Mother'. If one must treat Beasts as things in a setting rather than a series of bad writing decisions, it's more likely to be because they're entities with mental powers who specifically want monsters to be their friends so they can leech off of those monsters' real monstrosity to get high off terror and cruelty. Which is to say, no splat whatsoever would ever want a Beast around, as far as I can tell, unless they basically need psychic trauma muscle to harm people with. Maybe some Pure would find a nexus of toxic resonance useful?
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Mar 19, 2018 04:16
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Dawgstar posted:Not to disagree with your point, as it's valid, but don't Demons sort of have that already? The thing is, they don't; that's the weird part. The Demon Eidetic Memory Merit works mechanically exactly as the blue line Merit does, while the Advanced Merit Beasts get is a straight upgrade to both. This makes Beasts potentially better at perfect recalling than Demons, which considering their whole mind-body quantum entanglement deal seems... strange? Mulva posted:e: Of all the things that can be said about Beast, Advanced Merits aren't that big a deal. Certainly not. And again, as ST I just remove the Beast prereq and nobody cares. I'm just wondering why, as an author, you wouldn't remove the Beast prerequisite tag and make a book that is at least a little more valuable to other splats. If, you know, one of the nine different things you want your book to be is the cross-splat splat.
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Mar 19, 2018 05:16
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Not really having a need for them is something I had issue with during the Kickstarter. I think they fit what was once changeling's thing, where you can be any monster, without all that monster's drawbacks (like you could be a leechfinger or beast or some sort of wizened to simulate a vampire, werewolf, or mage). Thing was that changelings had their own baggage and were better off with each other. So now if you're playing Mage and someone says they want to be a Dragon or a murderous clown demon or that thing from that popular movie/anime/book/whatever, they can be a Beast and your baggage is minimal (heroes can be big threats, but they can just be people who get stomped, too). The big thing seems to be their ability to grant a blessing, in Mother's Kiss, which gives you a dicepool for any supernatural power usage. Though obviously you can do something similar in mage or focused in werewolf and probably in some other games. Some people have talked up using the Lair as a base of operations. And sure, some Advanced Merits can be easily justified as just higher dot versions of existing Merits (like Iron Skin) but people have been wanting more since they came out. nofather fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Mar 19, 2018 |
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Mar 19, 2018 05:53
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Joe Slowboat posted:Beasts explicitly have a sort of emotional resonance with other splats, I believe, due to 'all being children of the Dark Mother'. If one must treat Beasts as things in a setting rather than a series of bad writing decisions, it's more likely to be because they're entities with mental powers who specifically want monsters to be their friends so they can leech off of those monsters' real monstrosity to get high off terror and cruelty. Mages would very much be interested in having Beasts around, they would have them around to dissect of course but they'd have them around nonetheless.
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Mar 19, 2018 05:59
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nofather posted:The big thing seems to be their ability to grant a blessing, in Mother's Kiss, which gives you a dicepool for any supernatural power usage. Though obviously you can do something similar in mage or focused in werewolf and probably in some other games. Some people have talked up using the Lair as a base of operations. Why would you want to operate out of some dude's stank-rear end murder hotel?
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Mar 19, 2018 06:48
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Nessus posted:Ah, the ol' Sidereal trick: "My utility is that I make your TN 4 on your melee rolls." You can't put a price on ambiance.
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Mar 19, 2018 06:53
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Attorney at Funk posted:You can't put a price on ambiance. My Mage game recently had the cabal finally make a shared Sanctum; it's an elaborately color-coded mansion shoved into the space of a graduate student housing studio, with a secret inner chamber and accessible only through cabal-member-keyed doorway in an alley. Due to the original room only having windows that face one way, every window in the mansion technically faces the same direction, so sunshine multiple reflects through itself over the course of the day. And they adopted a local stray cat too. Werewolves meanwhile can have anything they can get spirits to cough up for a safe place Vampires have the best power of all: lots of money. Also, goth.
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Mar 19, 2018 07:16
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Nessus posted:Why would you want to operate out of some dude's stank-rear end murder hotel? Plus there's the invasiveness of it. "Hi guys, welcome to my Lair, don't mind the hideous monstrosity it's just my soul, if you need to use the bathroom just go in the corner." But I figure people were imagining more of a fantasy-ish headquarters, like a Verge but without the possibility of random encounters. And it's just as I hear, along with the Kiss thing. Most people I figure are preferring to play 'the other.' I seem to hear about more and more games with mixed gamelines lately. nofather fucked around with this message at 07:22 on Mar 19, 2018 |
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Mar 19, 2018 07:17
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Dawgstar posted:So the 'Beasts are every splats buddy' thing - is that ever given validation beyond 'because.' EQFiddleCastrol posted:The thing is, they don't; that's the weird part. The Demon Eidetic Memory Merit works mechanically exactly as the blue line Merit does, while the Advanced Merit Beasts get is a straight upgrade to both. This makes Beasts potentially better at perfect recalling than Demons, which considering their whole mind-body quantum entanglement deal seems... strange? Nessus posted:Why would you want to operate out of some dude's stank-rear end murder hotel? Congratulations! You have put more thought into this then the maker of Beast did! Everyone loves Beasts because they're obviously the best friends of everyone, and they're just so good at everything because gosh, Beasts are just that loving rad, and everyone loves them, and they're SUPER powerful, and everyone really just wants to be one, and nobody ever gets mad at them for - Yeah. Welcome to Beast, the book line that looks like a lovely fansplat made like ten years ago.
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Mar 19, 2018 07:28
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Milhouse slams his fist on the floor. "When are they gonna stop being aimless and pointless abuse monsters?!" he cries, then begins to weep. On the television, a Beast is beating up a homeless vet while a Mage and a Werewolf wait in a car, up the road from the last remnant of Pangaea.
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Mar 19, 2018 07:48
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nofather posted:But I figure people were imagining more of a fantasy-ish headquarters, like a Verge but without the possibility of random encounters. And it's just as I hear, along with the Kiss thing. Most people I figure are preferring to play 'the other.' I seem to hear about more and more games with mixed gamelines lately. One of the merits in the BPG lets you basically turn your lair into a Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion for your party.
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Mar 19, 2018 08:18
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Joe Slowboat posted:Vampires have the best power of all: lots of money. Also, goth. I'm pretty sure any sufficiently determined Mage has as much money as they feel like having and the only thing holding them back is that some Seers or Guardians might not take kindly to it. My default assumption is that a lot of, or even most, mages live solely off some magical gimmick they can pull off, and it's only an issue if somebody notices or in hardline or Guardian-dominant Consilia. Like oh, there's Damascus, he makes big bucks by smithing mage-stuff for other mages like "a dagger of purest silver" or "a perfectly spherical giant mirror" but it's turning water into vodka for four hours and selling jugs of it on the street for cheap that really keeps the lights on and the bills paid. If I ever get my local game off the ground and off the planning stages, then "we give every Pentacle Mage, and sleepwalkers we like, infinite free public transport on their transport passes" is just gonna be a thing the Free Council does as a gesture of goodwill. bewilderment fucked around with this message at 09:20 on Mar 19, 2018 |
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Mar 19, 2018 09:16
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Kurieg posted:One of the merits in the BPG lets you basically turn your lair into a Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion for your party. And of course you can make it out of any given part of their multiverse. Want to hop from the Astral to the Underworld to the Hedge to the Shadow in snap? It's trivial. Sure there are plenty of Mages that can instantly pop around the entirety of existence in a jiff, but for most other creatures it's not that easy. It's also about as far off the maps as you can get, which keeps you pretty safe. Lot of creatures wouldn't mind a multidimensional fortress on the edge of existence with it's own wait staff and catering. And hey, free wifi. If that Horror wandering around gives you trouble, well, your gracious host can always nail it to the floor of his Heart and keep it out of your way. Forever. Dawgstar posted:So the 'Beasts are every splats buddy' thing - is that ever given validation beyond 'because.' 'Cause I'm sitting here reading the F&F on the books and think about the Uratha and how Beasts just by existing probably wreak all kinds of havoc on the spiritual landscape and increase the werewolves' workload by an order of magnitude. Like, kinda how Prometheans do it but for the Beasts it's premeditated. They are monstrous fear spirits, and they resonate with other monsters because of it. Vampires and werewolves and fireballing slinging assholes are all the part of the monster that they are built from. They really are family, but it's more that Beasts are their children. You had unprotected horror with existence, and now that psychic resonance has crawled up from the depths and come looking for you. It's also why they can take on aspects of other monsters, they are undifferentiated fear. They have to develop into specific monsters, and that's a process that continues even after the Devouring. Buddy up with vampires and you can drink blood, buddy up with changelings and you can make deals, buddy up with werewolves and you can hunt by sense, buddy up with a Mage to scour your pattern. It's sketchy, but it's internal consistent with the fluff and the rules. Which is worth something I guess. I don't know what, but something.
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Mar 19, 2018 09:20
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Mulva posted:They are monstrous fear spirits, and they resonate with other monsters because of it. Vampires and werewolves and fireballing slinging assholes are all the part of the monster that they are built from. They really are family, but it's more that Beasts are their children. You had unprotected horror with existence, and now that psychic resonance has crawled up from the depths and come looking for you. It's also why they can take on aspects of other monsters, they are undifferentiated fear. They have to develop into specific monsters, and that's a process that continues even after the Devouring. Buddy up with vampires and you can drink blood, buddy up with changelings and you can make deals, buddy up with werewolves and you can hunt by sense, buddy up with a Mage to scour your pattern. Okay, that's fair, it's just what got me thinking is there's this bit in the Chicago book about how the former site of serial killer H. H. Holmes' house is turning into a Bad Place. And that would happen with Beasts around like all the time. I think I'm clearly into 'forget it Dawgstar, it's Beasttown' territory now, though.
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Mar 19, 2018 13:14
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Ironslave posted:Milhouse slams his fist on the floor. "When are they gonna stop being aimless and pointless abuse monsters?!" he cries, then begins to weep. On the television, a Beast is beating up a homeless vet while a Mage and a Werewolf wait in a car, up the road from the last remnant of Pangaea. 
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Mar 19, 2018 14:38
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bewilderment posted:I'm pretty sure any sufficiently determined Mage has as much money as they feel like having and the only thing holding them back is that some Seers or Guardians might not take kindly to it. there's a great bit on the show The Magicians where a character is finally getting a practical handle on using magic and one of the first things she does is use a spell to make an ATM spit a few thousand bucks into her hands
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Mar 19, 2018 14:53
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Dawgstar posted:Okay, that's fair, it's just what got me thinking is there's this bit in the Chicago book about how the former site of serial killer H. H. Holmes' house is turning into a Bad Place. And that would happen with Beasts around like all the time. I think I'm clearly into 'forget it Dawgstar, it's Beasttown' territory now, though. Oh no, Beasts and Werewolves shouldn't get along. On top of everything else Beasts do to contribute to an unhealthy spiritual landscape. If a Beast somehow manages to get into the Shadow they act as a Locus for Fear and Pain resonance.
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Mar 19, 2018 15:21
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Kurieg posted:One of the merits in the BPG lets you basically turn your lair into a Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion for your party. Do you ever wonder your disgusted morbid fascination with Beast might run so deep you might accidentally start serving as advertisement for it? Or are those fighting words?
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Mar 19, 2018 15:48
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I Am Just a Box posted:Do you ever wonder your disgusted morbid fascination with Beast might run so deep you might accidentally start serving as advertisement for it? The.. second half of the BPG Is almost a completely different game than the first half/Core Book. It's less "OH WE ARE SO PUT UPON TO BE MONSTERS NO ONE UNDERSTANDS OUR PAIN BUT WE'RE BEST FRIENDS WITH EVERYONE!" and more "Yes. You're a horrific Monster, teaching lessons is a lie that weaker Beasts use to try and excuse their monstrosity. Here's some cool poo poo to be a better monster."
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Mar 19, 2018 15:59
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If you took like 40 pages from the BPG and put them in the Core to start with I feel like half the complaints about the game would have never really came about. I don't know that it would have saved it, but it'd have been a very different conversation to start with.
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Mar 19, 2018 17:06
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Mulva posted:If you took like 40 pages from the BPG and put them in the Core to start with I feel like half the complaints about the game would have never really came about. Matt wrote the story at the front of the book (Even if he didn't sign his name to it it's obvious he wrote it) and I'm reasonably certain that the new families and hungers at least originated from him. But his authorial voice is gone from a lot of the later chapters and it's more "Yeah let's just gloss over the whole feeding thing as focusing on that feels disgusting. Here's cool powers and a way for you to feed in the background(but I'll still bring it up if it creates interesting story complications)"
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Mar 19, 2018 17:39
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There's also a long and extremely brutally honest section that goes into how 'teaching a lesson' is wholly self-deception to make the Beast feel better about themselves and barely ever actually works to teach a lesson to anyone.
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Mar 19, 2018 17:43
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I also love the brutally honest sidebar about players performing human sacrifice "Isn't this evil?" "You're playing Beast, gently caress that you're playing a Chronicles of Darkness game." "So." "Yes."
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Mar 19, 2018 17:51
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Mors Rattus posted:Made some shifts, and wrote up the Other Pantheons and Relations sections. "In practice, the entire Yuan debacle has not really been sorted out." It's shaping up really nicely! You've got a real good eye for translating history through the personalities of each pantheon.
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Mar 19, 2018 18:24
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The BPG is at an inherit disadvantage to similar supplements from other lines because it has so much to walk back and redefine, but I have to say I'm really impressed with the job they've done. The designers and writers should be proud, there are a lot of cool things included (like the Lair library and the Kinship Merits) and, as Kureig said, the Matt's "Voice from the Mount" feel has largely been excised. I would actually consider playing or running a Beast PC now. I mean, not a whole Brood, but one in a mixed company game? Might have its place.
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Mar 19, 2018 22:34
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