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I decided not to sign with the company in the end. No way am I restricting myself like that.
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Sep 8, 2017 22:13
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Thermopyle posted:Oh, I also thought you were trolling because thats like the exact opposite of everything thats been said on the subject ITT and I see you in this thread a lot... Yeah, they can put a lot of pressure on you. I've even gotten threats that they want to make an offer, but can't without knowing my current salary. If someone is worried about this, they should really, really read the negotiation thread, or at the very least the OP. As a teaser, if this makes sense, definitely read the rest: quote:Whoever states a hard and fast number first will anchor the further discussion in the context of that number. If you state a number out the gate, then the employer will either accept that offer, or try to push down from that point. If the employer states a number out the gate, then you will either accept that number, or try to push it higher. Establishing a floor and going up has better outcomes than establishing a ceiling and going down!
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Sep 9, 2017 03:43
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Yeah i checked out the negotiation thread and it does make a lot of sense. The only reason i asked the question was based on my vague remembrance of what was previously discussed in this thread
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Sep 9, 2017 05:31
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Ither posted:I decided not to sign with the company in the end. Did you tell them it was because of the restrictions?
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Sep 9, 2017 07:42
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Keetron posted:Did you tell them it was because of the restrictions? Yup.
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Sep 9, 2017 12:59
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Ither posted:Yup. Did they try to negotiate it with you at all or was it just "OK, door's over there"?
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Sep 9, 2017 17:18
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kitten smoothie posted:Did they try to negotiate it with you at all or was it just "OK, door's over there"? "This is a standard contract that everyone who works here has signed. We don't make changes to it."
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Sep 9, 2017 19:18
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Ither posted:"This is a standard contract that everyone who works here has signed. We don't make changes to it." The "this is standard for everyone working here" line is right up there with "every company does this" when it comes to things management likes to lean on to avoid having to make an effort. They like to use this for negotiating PTO and other non-salary benefits too; it's not that they can't change it, they don't want to bother. In a sane company, your potential future boss will be able to find a way to satisfy your requirements even if they aren't the norm (you know, as long as they're reasonable, which "No you don't own everything in my brain" certainly qualifies as). They should be able and eager to go to HR and say, "I want this person to work for me, make these changes to the contract, sign it, and stop getting in the loving way of real work." If the HR department has too much power, or if your future boss is too milquetoast to take these actions, those are reasons enough in my mind to pass on the job all on their own. Depending on what other red flags I've seen at the company my response would either be some variation of "Why don't you look over the changes I've made and get back to me, I think they're pretty reasonable" or "Talk to me when you're ready to hire a professional." This isn't advice, I know you've made the choice. I just, I hate that kind of line that they trotted out. Just make a goddamned effort, hiring person.
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Sep 9, 2017 20:30
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Where is this Negotiation thread? I am going to need it - I transferred from Support to a QA job in April, with no prior development or QA experience. I had already verbally accepted the position from my would-be manager, with a verbal "contingent on if HR makes me a good offer". Nine weeks of anxious waiting later, HR informed me via email that I officially have the position but with zero raise (due in large part to the no QA/Dev experience). I replied with "I viewed a move to QA as a promotion, especially because of the huge leap in responsibility a QA has compared to level 1 support. If there is no pay increase then I will stay in my current position", so they offered me a 10% raise immediately and a 6 month out-of-cycle review to see if I merit earning what a QA actually earns. With the 10% they gave me I am still at least 10% underpaid for being a QA where I live and I have a sneaking suspicion that they are going to try to dick me over again. edit: p.s. I got the email that I officially had the position but with no pay increase an hour before I was to clock out for the last time before I left town to go on my honeymoon, which seemed a little conspicuous.
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Sep 10, 2017 00:46
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It's in the Business, Finance, and Careers subforum. This is the link: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3768531
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Sep 10, 2017 03:10
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fantastic in plastic posted:It's in the Business, Finance, and Careers subforum. This is the link: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3768531
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Sep 10, 2017 04:47
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Take the 10%, learn all you can and  if they try to screw you over in 6 months.
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Sep 10, 2017 09:14
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Keetron posted:Take the 10%, learn all you can and AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Sep 10, 2017 |
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Sep 10, 2017 15:22
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Keetron posted:Take the 10%, learn all you can and I just about guarantee you that you will get a better deal elsewhere in six months time than what they will offer you.
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Sep 10, 2017 17:13
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I'd like to officially offer to run versions of my company's online coding interview / tech screen for people who want some practice. If you are interested in doing practice coding interviews please DM me. I'm in the process of benchmarking some new coding interview questions. I'm the hiring manager for our data science role, but these questions would also be appropriate for a traditional software engineer. If you'd like to practice a coding tech screen, I'd be happy to run one. We'll code share and use skype or a google hangout. Plan on it taking 45 minutes to an hour. I'll use the time, we'd normally reserve for selling you on the role and answering questions about the company to provide feedback on how you did.
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Sep 10, 2017 18:52
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KernelSlanders posted:I'd like to officially offer to run versions of my company's online coding interview / tech screen for people who want some practice. If you are interested in doing practice coding interviews please DM me. I'd likely be up for that but I don't have PMs. I've been working as a junior asp.net developer for 4 months, hoping to get an intermediate position after 1-2 years. Let me know if that might be appropriate for your questions and I can give my email in the thread. Thanks for the offer!
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Sep 11, 2017 03:34
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KernelSlanders posted:I'd like to officially offer to run versions of my company's online coding interview / tech screen for people who want some practice. If you are interested in doing practice coding interviews please DM me. I would also be interested in something like this. Would the test be applicable to a Javascript developer?
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Sep 11, 2017 20:36
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Ither posted:This discussion raise a question. I sat on a plane next to a guy who was doing programming, figuring we'd have something to talk about.
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Sep 11, 2017 20:57
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Keetron posted:I'd expect from what little information you gave it to be a laid back, low pay, high hours tech focused environment. Ask about development process, version control in place, techstack, CI/CD in place and their testing practises. For your first job, you cannot be to harsh but lack of process, no version control or very crappy, all deployments by hand and complete absence of testing (unit, system, functional, interface) are pretty red flags in my book. This is after I ensure the techstack is a fit. On the other hand, I have been asked to improve the company on these points, then I need to find out if it is management that wants to change or the workers as well. You were insanely right about your take on this. Only differences was they are very focused on testing and version control. The team was awesome, the work seemed really interesting, and has a ton of potential for growth. They are also fast about decisions. I had an awesome interview/technical interview back to back, they had be an offer letter the same day, I signed it today. So! I'm officially going to be a junior web developer as of next month!
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Sep 11, 2017 21:12
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Has anyone ever heard of Pega?Shirec posted:You were insanely right about your take on this. Only differences was they are very focused on testing and version control. The team was awesome, the work seemed really interesting, and has a ton of potential for growth. Congrats!
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Sep 11, 2017 23:02
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What's it like working at a company that is just one app? I have an interview with a startup tomorrow and i can't really wrap my brain around what a developer would do day-to-day besides support if the app is pushed to the public already teen phone cutie fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Sep 11, 2017 |
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Sep 11, 2017 23:31
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Grump posted:What's it like working at a company that is just one app? An "app" can be literally thousands of pieces of functionality. Developers are working on improving each of any of those thousands of pieces, or adding brand new things. If it's a startup, they probably pushed a minimum viable product out as quickly as possible and are now working on iterating on it to improve weak spots and add "nice-to-have"s that didn't make the MVP.
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Sep 11, 2017 23:53
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Grump posted:What's it like working at a company that is just one app? Adding new features on the roadmap, fixing bugs, clearing tech debt. My company has 19 people on my team and we are tasked with one app (although three platforms, iOS, Android, and web). We have absolutely no shortage of work to do.
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Sep 11, 2017 23:59
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Grump posted:What's it like working at a company that is just one app? You won't have a shortage of work. Do you think Facebook, a complete product, has a shortage of work?
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Sep 12, 2017 01:27
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Would it be weird if a company hired a junior developer without ever doing an in-person interview, but a Skype interview in its stead? I've got a larger Skype interview coming up with a company based in Colorado, and I'm on the East Coast currently. Not sure if there will be more interviews after this, judging by what the hiring manager told me about their process it seems like I'm nearing the finish line.
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Sep 12, 2017 03:32
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The Dark Wind posted:Would it be weird if a company hired a junior developer without ever doing an in-person interview, but a Skype interview in its stead? I've got a larger Skype interview coming up with a company based in Colorado, and I'm on the East Coast currently. Not sure if there will be more interviews after this, judging by what the hiring manager told me about their process it seems like I'm nearing the finish line. I got my current job after just a skype interview (ok it was zoom, but same deal), I don't think its that strange if both parties are satisfied.
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Sep 12, 2017 03:38
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The Dark Wind posted:Would it be weird if a company hired a junior developer without ever doing an in-person interview, but a Skype interview in its stead? I've got a larger Skype interview coming up with a company based in Colorado, and I'm on the East Coast currently. Not sure if there will be more interviews after this, judging by what the hiring manager told me about their process it seems like I'm nearing the finish line. I am on Job 4 now and not one has had an in person, only skypes or phone calls. Only 1 has been a switch to another local place, all others out of state or out of country.
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Sep 12, 2017 03:51
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Ornithology posted:I'd likely be up for that but I don't have PMs. I've been working as a junior asp.net developer for 4 months, hoping to get an intermediate position after 1-2 years. Let me know if that might be appropriate for your questions and I can give my email in the thread. Thanks for the offer! Grump posted:I would also be interested in something like this. Yes, both are fine. Just remember it's a pure coding test, not specifically web/frontend. Either DM or get me your email some other way.
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Sep 12, 2017 04:21
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The Dark Wind posted:Would it be weird if a company hired a junior developer without ever doing an in-person interview, but a Skype interview in its stead? I've got a larger Skype interview coming up with a company based in Colorado, and I'm on the East Coast currently. Not sure if there will be more interviews after this, judging by what the hiring manager told me about their process it seems like I'm nearing the finish line. Not really, especially if it's a purely remote position. If it isn't though, I would personally be wary about signing on to a place that I didn't have a chance to see the office where I'd be working, what my desk/work area looks like, and what my co-workers sound and smell like. I've also been in the industry a while though, so if it's a first job or otherwise entry level and the compensation and work is attractive to you, you might want to roll those dice.
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Sep 12, 2017 06:57
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Ither posted:Has anyone ever heard of Pega? Yeah I heared of it, what about it?
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Sep 12, 2017 07:18
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Keetron posted:Yeah I heared of it, what about it? I did a little research on it, and it seems to be a way to build enterprise applications without coding. Is that correct?
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Sep 12, 2017 10:26
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Ither posted:I did a little research on it, and it seems to be a way to build enterprise applications without coding. Is that correct? Ah, I just know it from the context of testing, where I found it is some horrible beast that needs tons of closed source stuff to be able to test on and then still one can only pray it is as expected. But yeah, any tool that promises "application without coding" is shady in my book.
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Sep 12, 2017 10:45
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Keetron posted:Ah, I just know it from the context of testing, where I found it is some horrible beast that needs tons of closed source stuff to be able to test on and then still one can only pray it is as expected. Huh, I've seen openings for an Automated Tester for a Pega Team. Maybe I should ignore them.
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Sep 12, 2017 12:35
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Ither posted:Huh, I've seen openings for an Automated Tester for a Pega Team. Maybe I should ignore them. Well, it depends. It is like SAP tester. There is this one application that is a massive behemoth that is used mostly in the government and corporate world and you specialize in testing just that one application in a variety of implementations. The testing of it is done with specialized tools, you are not expected to venture outside of the provided toolset. There is absolutely a market for jobs that will lock you into a technology until it is obsolete and your experience is outdated, so the only thing left is suck dick for money. Personally I find the insular nature to be very restrictive, I prefer my tooling to be open source so I can expand it where I want and can review the internals for predictability reasons. If you are looking at QA roles, dive into Java or Python, learn how to use IntelliJ, Selenium, JUnit, Restassured and how to design and implement CI/CD using Jenkins and Docker. You will be like a software janitor but for much better pay than computer janitor.
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Sep 12, 2017 14:06
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Specializing in PEGA is a great way to pidgeonhole yourself.
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Sep 12, 2017 14:09
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Grump posted:What's it like working at a company that is just one app? Try building some sort of non-trivial personal project on the side. There are various reasons to do this, but in this context you'll see that you could basically spend forever on it even after you've reached some arbitrary "done" point. (no, I don't know how to quantify "trivial" here)
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Sep 12, 2017 14:16
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Thanks for the replies guys!Che Delilas posted:Not really, especially if it's a purely remote position. If it isn't though, I would personally be wary about signing on to a place that I didn't have a chance to see the office where I'd be working, what my desk/work area looks like, and what my co-workers sound and smell like. I've also been in the industry a while though, so if it's a first job or otherwise entry level and the compensation and work is attractive to you, you might want to roll those dice. This is my first position, so I'm trying not to be too picky. So far the whole process itself has been pretty smooth and the work sounds appealing and involves digging into a couple of different tech that I'm interested in, which is a plus. However, I was looking at some recent glassdoor reviews for this particular office and they don't seem to be too hot. Mainly lots of complaints about management creating obstacles, lack of raises, work-life balance starting to drop towards the negative, etc. There's only 3 or 4 of these though, so I'll hold out on making any kind of solid opinion until I ask them some follow up questions about the office and culture.
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Sep 12, 2017 21:01
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Okay, just so I don't gently caress it up again: when a recruiter says something like "we need to provide a target salary range for this company, can you give that to me", the response is "my target salary range is market value for a software engineer in my area"? I really have no idea what I'm supposed to say here.
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Sep 13, 2017 18:53
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Pollyanna posted:Okay, just so I don't gently caress it up again: when a recruiter says something like "we need to provide a target salary range for this company, can you give that to me", the response is "my target salary range is market value for a software engineer in my area"? I really have no idea what I'm supposed to say here. "I'm looking for a salary that's competitive for the position" was my go to
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Sep 13, 2017 18:55
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If you can't fob them off at least know what you should be making. http://app.web.roberthalf.com/e/er?s=489322457&lid=21737
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Sep 13, 2017 18:55
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