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Sandman McMahon posted:Pretty sure Sable was gone well before Chyna started actually wrestling as well. Sable was Women's Champion when Chyna was in the Rumble.
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Nov 14, 2022 22:35
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rare Magic card l00k posted:Sable was Women's Champion when Chyna was in the Rumble. Yeah but that was the very start of her actually working matches (against guys all the way up until the end of 2000 no less) and Sable was gone by May so if you look closely I believe you’ll find that Sandman from ECW fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Nov 14, 2022 |
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Nov 14, 2022 23:27
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IIRC, Chyna didn't even have a proper singles match against another woman until the 2001 Rumble or thereabouts. The only match prior that involved another woman was the mixed tag at SummerSlam 2000 where she won the IC title for the second time off of Val Venis, who was tagging with Trish Stratus.
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Nov 15, 2022 19:02
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Chyna thought the women's division was below her at that time so there was no chance of a match with Sable. Also probably wouldn't have made sense since Chyna was a face for most of Sable's run as a wrestler, right? She turned right before Sable left the company but there was no way that match would work then.
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Nov 15, 2022 19:05
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I mean, considering the state of the women's division in the WWF at the time, it's hard not to see where she was coming from.
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Nov 15, 2022 19:28
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edogawa rando posted:I mean, considering the state of the women's division in the WWF at the time, it's hard not to see where she was coming from. As per Wikipedia: quote:Sable continued to hold the championship for almost six months, but on May 10, 1999, Debra won the Women's Championship from Sable in an Evening Gown match. Normally in an Evening Gown match, the winner is the woman who forcibly removes her opponent's dress, which Sable did. As part of the storyline, WWF Commissioner Shawn Michaels, however, ruled that the woman who had lost her dress was the winner, making Debra the new Women's Champion. Off-screen, Sable was in a dispute with the WWF, which is why she was stripped of the title on-screen.[23] Sable at this time was also very unpopular backstage, to the extent that Sean Waltman has since admitted to playing a nasty practical joke on her last day with the WWF.[24] Pretty sure this says it all lol
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Nov 15, 2022 19:44
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Yeah I recently looked at an old 2006 thread and the first thing I saw was like a "bra and panties gauntlet match" and I just stared at it for a minute, like, I remember women's wrestling being a pure misogynist spectacle and all but I forgot how long it went on
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Nov 15, 2022 23:06
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Yeah, even when they did have Chyna win the woman's title the crux of the match iirc was basically that she was going in to it highly injured so ivory actually stood a chance against her. Having her compete in the woman's division of that time was basically a lose lose situation.
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Nov 15, 2022 23:17
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Dr. Quarex posted:Yeah I recently looked at an old 2006 thread and the first thing I saw was like a "bra and panties gauntlet match" and I just stared at it for a minute, like, I remember women's wrestling being a pure misogynist spectacle and all but I forgot how long it went on THE PUPPIES! THE PUPPIES! THE PUPPIES JAY ARE!!!
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Nov 15, 2022 23:24
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There's some great American/Canadian women workers that I feel bad didn't get to start in this era instead of the early 2000s. Ivory, Gail Kim, etc. Even Trish and Lita.
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Nov 15, 2022 23:29
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RenegadeStyle1 posted:There's some great American/Canadian women workers that I feel bad didn't get to start in this era instead of the early 2000s. Ivory, Gail Kim, etc. Even Trish and Lita. Molly Holly immediately comes to mind as someone who would've been a huge deal 10-15 years later instead of a comedy sidekick.
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Nov 16, 2022 00:21
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The funny things is while not perfect the run with the Women's title with Medusa and Bull Nakano feuding was a pretty good starting point for a Women's division and could of been built into something good
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Nov 16, 2022 00:38
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SatoshiMiwa posted:The funny things is while not perfect the run with the Women's title with Medusa and Bull Nakano feuding was a pretty good starting point for a Women's division and could of been built into something good Apparently the joshi stuff freaked Vince out and is why he shitcanned the entire division for a while.
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Nov 16, 2022 00:50
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Maxwell Lord posted:Apparently the joshi stuff freaked Vince out and is why he shitcanned the entire division for a while. Freaked him out in what way? I am watching through late 95 raws now and the matches are good but I don't think the audience would have been primed to take it seriously without a lot of work. They didn't even have their commentators take it seriously besides JR and Vince.
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Nov 16, 2022 00:58
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RenegadeStyle1 posted:Freaked him out in what way? I am watching through late 95 raws now and the matches are good but I don't think the audience would have been primed to take it seriously without a lot of work. They didn't even have their commentators take it seriously besides JR and Vince. This is supposedly the match that did it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgt1ayddrLI The reasons people cite are too stiff and upstaged the men. People discuss it in the comments.
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Nov 16, 2022 01:03
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god it is maddening to watch that, see good, well executed wrestling poo poo and hear the announcers talking about how aja kong is ugly over it. they could have HAD something!!! also aja kong is a loving sick looking woman. i know there's no point in getting mad over 27 year old misogyny but christ almighty. aja kong is so loving incredibly cool and i haven't heard of this other lady but she's doing great poo poo in this match! Care about the match! please!
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Nov 16, 2022 01:06
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Hell a lot of the comments about one or another woman wrestler in AEW being “unsafe” on Twitter seem to come down to them working a Joshi influenced style, which is naturally a bit more stiff and snug than what you usually see. (The men sometimes get this but perceptions of gender definitely factor into this.) This kinda makes it remarkable that WWE’s women’s division was able to find a style that makes for good matches without raising similar hackles.
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Nov 16, 2022 01:13
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Can a non-wrestler even reliably tell if a move is stiff or not, I thought the point of pro-wrestling is to make things look real enough, so a move that appears stiff but doesn't cause injury would be ideal
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Nov 16, 2022 01:27
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Breetai posted:Yeah, even when they did have Chyna win the woman's title the crux of the match iirc was basically that she was going in to it highly injured so ivory actually stood a chance against her. Having her compete in the woman's division of that time was basically a lose lose situation. Even once she got healed up the entire story surrounding her was 'no one in this division can touch me I'm invincible and not taking any of you seriously.' Presumably her feud with Lita would have continued and Lita would have eventually beat her for the title but then...yeah. We all know what happened after that 
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Nov 16, 2022 01:35
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fez_machine posted:This is supposedly the match that did it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgt1ayddrLI Funny that's the match I just watched last night. It did look snug but I assume they work eachother a lot so they would be comfortable with it. Yeah the commentary is terrible, it was never gonna get a fair shake.
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Nov 16, 2022 01:36
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Vince never knew how to process top flight female workers. I don't think he even learned the Jumping Bomb Angels' names.
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Nov 16, 2022 05:35
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He was too busy giving identical blond women with implants millions of dollars. And also pushed Sunny and Sable 
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Nov 16, 2022 05:55
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Alundra Blaze vs Bull Nakano from either SummerSlam or Survivor Series 94 is a brilliant match. I was surprised that Vince allowed something so cool on his crappy programming.
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Nov 16, 2022 08:53
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Can't look past how womens wrestling was crippled in the west by The Fabulous Moolah for decades, and that was the least damage she did during her horrible life that has lead to her effectively being written out of history.
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Nov 16, 2022 09:26
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what is the attempt to look past that about? What's going on? what happens next?
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Nov 16, 2022 09:54
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You can look at things in the past. Not so much the future. Now? Look at it happening all around you.
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Nov 16, 2022 15:54
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Kosmo Gallion posted:Alundra Blaze vs Bull Nakano from either SummerSlam or Survivor Series 94 is a brilliant match. I was surprised that Vince allowed something so cool on his crappy programming. And isn't that match not as good as their match on Raw?
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Nov 16, 2022 16:07
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And then Madusa went to WCW, they basically had the same issues. Their women's title tournament had people like Akira Hokuto, Chigusa Nagayo and Meiko Satomura, which would be a heck of a grounding for a division alongside Madusa. But nope, the second Hokuto left to go back to Japan they just ditched the belt.
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Nov 16, 2022 18:34
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They even made an angle out of Madusa getting pissed at the lack of a women's division in WCW. I'm pretty sure it didn't have a pay-off either. Well, nothing satisfying anyway, but WCW.txt. Also, MATE, IF YOU ARE AWARE ENOUGH OF THE PROBLEM THAT YOU'RE ACKNOWLEDGING IT ON TV, loving DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
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Nov 16, 2022 19:14
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Why did Eric even poach her in the first place?
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Nov 16, 2022 20:56
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Gaz-L posted:Why did Eric even poach her in the first place? Because she got fired. In the middle of a war if you can hire an opposition's champion you do it. In the end even if he was going to be serious about a women's division Medusa was not the person to build it around but I can see why he did it.
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Nov 16, 2022 20:58
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Gaz-L posted:Why did Eric even poach her in the first place? Probably so she could dump the WWF in the trash. After that ???
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Nov 16, 2022 20:59
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Eric's favourite thing was anything he imagined would one up Vince, especially if he could do it on Nitro and make no money off it
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Nov 16, 2022 23:52
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MassRafTer posted:Because she got fired. In the middle of a war if you can hire an opposition's champion you do it. In the end even if he was going to be serious about a women's division Medusa was not the person to build it around but I can see why he did it. I don’t think I’ve ever watched a Medusa match. Was she not a good worker? Or just kind of meh in the heat department?
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Nov 17, 2022 01:53
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She worked better as a heel character wise but her WWF character as Alundra was just boring white meat babyface. In ring she could hang with the Joshi talent okay but when paired with US/Canada talent she couldn't really elevate them.
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Nov 17, 2022 01:58
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Nystral posted:I don’t think I’ve ever watched a Medusa match. Was she not a good worker? Or just kind of meh in the heat department? She was average in the ring and never struck me as a really compelling character. She had some charisma, but not enough to overcome not being interested in her matches.
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Nov 17, 2022 02:11
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Remember when WCW hired a female wrestler named ASYA? Because ASYA is bigger than CHYNA? Get it? Do you?! 
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Nov 17, 2022 02:15
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Nea posted:god it is maddening to watch that, see good, well executed wrestling poo poo and hear the announcers talking about how aja kong is ugly over it. they could have HAD something!!! The commentary in that match is notable because Lawler is trying to tell some stupid fat joke and was floundering so hard Vince told him to focus on the action.
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Nov 17, 2022 02:17
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Do wrestlers cut weight before shows?
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Nov 17, 2022 05:37
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I doubt it, dehydrating your self to look better would be absolutely miserable and possibly dangerous to do when your expected to do a fifteen minute athletic event. If I had to guess everyone is using their walking around weight.
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Nov 17, 2022 05:58
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