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Sephyr posted:So, I was browsing a friend's Necron book. Is it me, or is it an army with no downsides? Great shooting, amazing resiliency, speedy strong transports, amazing anti-vehicle and anti-horde weapon options spread over several units and slots, and even great CC (T5 3++ wraiths hititng like daemon prices for a fraction of the cost, S7 AP2 weaponry hititng before I1). They also have all those great weapon options spread over several units and slots, most of which are fairly pricey and restrictive in capabilities. For AV 14, for instance, you either take a Flyer that can't shoot other Flyers and can't really Jink and hope to fight, a vehicle that needs to sit perfectly still to deliver its payload (and costs a cool 170 points,) take BS4 Lascannons at 50 points a pop (though on pretty good bodies,) or to hope that you roll enough sixes from your Gauss to rattle the thing apart. That's a lot of Gauss shots to reliably do, unless you're banking on turn 2 and 3 dropping enough Warriors from your transports to carve it apart close range. That's generally Necrons. You either tank specific counters that are overpriced and often not so great outside of blowing up a tank or whatever, or you take a bunch of the cheaper, more reliable units and try to brute force things to death because it's a battle you will generally win. Both have weakness and strengths. I beat one of our local Necron guys (really strong player, regularly places or wins) running his top list a few months back with DA, because it turns out Annihilation Barges and Night Scythes can't do much to walls of 2+ besides trying to force a bunch of saves and hoping for the best. (I also got lucky and popped both his CCBs early on.) Naramyth posted:They have morale problems, aren't super mobile with their troops, there best mid strength shooting options got more expensive as did there transport flier. They can't bring MSU troops now that warriors are in blocks of 10 which also changed the dynamic of ghost arks. Command barges are good but losing mindshackle really put a dent in them and knights still cut them in half very quickly. And I2 is a big hindrance They're a good army, no doubt, but they got draw backs.
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Feb 9, 2015 20:41
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How would you exploit morale problems for an army like Necrons? serious gaylord posted:So you're mad that they're showing things that are in the pipeline for other armies in book 3 and new things that could be 6-12 months in the future? Nah, I'm just disappointed that I was so naive. It's clear HH is getting prioritized just like the flagship product, so I'm not going to treat it any differently. That means avoiding giving them money and not holding out for any future releases.
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Feb 9, 2015 20:48
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BULBASAUR posted:How would you exploit morale problems for an army like Necrons? Beat their asses in close combat and sweeping advance them because I2 is a noose. Of course if they have fearless in a big block that can be hard.
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Feb 9, 2015 21:02
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BULBASAUR posted:How would you exploit morale problems for an army like Necrons? Don't rely on shooting to push 9% chances of falling back but also don't be super surprised when it happens and shuts down shooting for a turn or they fall off an objective. Tank shock is totally a thing that can help and since they don't have hidden special weapons for death or glory your tank will probably get them to move and maybe break. Also get them in combat with stuff like scouts or whatever and just wait to sweep them.
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Feb 9, 2015 21:06
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BULBASAUR posted:Nah, I'm just disappointed that I was so naive. It's clear HH is getting prioritized just like the flagship product, so I'm not going to treat it any differently. That means avoiding giving them money and not holding out for any future releases. What exactly were you 'naive' about? It'd be one thing if they were done with book 3 and Iron Warriors were still waiting but you just got your vehicle upgrades and your Contemptor is less than six months old. Look at Raven Guard. They have a singular release that was for 30k. You're making mountains out of molehills. You're making up a reason to be disenfranchised about release schedules that you're convinced you're being consciously ignored about. Meanwhile, I have like five hundred dollars of Solar Auxilia in my closet I can't even use because I don't even have an HQ I can use,
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Feb 9, 2015 21:12
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BULBASAUR posted:How would you exploit morale problems for an army like Necrons? How dare you be upset or disappointed about anything Von Humboldt posted:Barring a few specific units, they're not so great in Close Combat. So they are just not so great at doing a thing that is pretty terrible in 7th edition. Seems like a good deal to me.
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Feb 9, 2015 21:25
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BULBASAUR posted:Nah, I'm just disappointed that I was so naive. It's clear HH is getting prioritized just like the flagship product, so I'm not going to treat it any differently. That means avoiding giving them money and not holding out for any future releases. you are taking the first steps on the road to not giving GW money ever my son
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Feb 9, 2015 21:32
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Scrunt Father be praised
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Feb 9, 2015 21:33
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TheChirurgeon posted:So they are just not so great at doing a thing that is pretty terrible in 7th edition. Seems like a good deal to me.  Moola posted:you are taking the first steps on the road to not giving GW money ever my son
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Feb 9, 2015 21:36
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Von Humboldt posted:Does buying models second-hand count as giving GW money? I mean, you're buying them from some mook, but he had to buy them from GW in the first. I need to make important moral decisions here - do I go for recycled and refurbished models, or free range premium non-GMO models from a third party company as the most ethical choice? Only if you want to live in eternal fear of a GW employee sneakily using a fingernail to scratch your models to check for authenticity, uncovering your dark, dark secret in the process which will lead to Resinageddon: the smashing of your entire collection on the floor and eternal public shaming. Hail Scrunt.
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Feb 9, 2015 21:40
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Naramyth posted:Don't rely on shooting to push 9% chances of falling back but also don't be super surprised when it happens and shuts down shooting for a turn or they fall off an objective. Tank shock is totally a thing that can help and since they don't have hidden special weapons for death or glory your tank will probably get them to move and maybe break. Also get them in combat with stuff like scouts or whatever and just wait to sweep them. I only got a brief glance of the codex the other day but I don't think they have any reliable way of dealing with flyer's other than bringing their own. Take this with a grain of salt as I dont play necrons myself.
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Feb 9, 2015 21:45
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BULBASAUR posted:Nah, I'm just disappointed that I was so naive. It's clear HH is getting prioritized just like the flagship product, so I'm not going to treat it any differently. That means avoiding giving them money and not holding out for any future releases. What does this even mean?
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Feb 9, 2015 21:46
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Necrons still don't have any really good answers to Monstrous Creatures. A Riptide is basically invulnerable unless you can catch it in assault and get lucky enough that you kill him before he smashes your command barge. Good combat units will also demolish anything outside of a Canoptek Harvest or a ridiculous Lychguard unit. AA is also a huge problem.
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Feb 9, 2015 21:47
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serious gaylord posted:What does this even mean? I'm not convinced it actually means anything.
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Feb 9, 2015 21:49
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:I'm not convinced it actually means anything. Forging the narrative using an Unbound English language.
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Feb 9, 2015 21:51
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In honesty most armies are beatable ... well asides from Tau or Eldar.
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Feb 9, 2015 21:51
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Mango Polo posted:Forging the narrative using an Unbound English language. No Unbound, No Allied languages, you're only allowed to use official GW sanctioned Word Formations. Even then, most of those have been heavily comped.
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Feb 9, 2015 21:55
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Naramyth posted:Also get them in combat with stuff like scouts or whatever and just wait to sweep them. How are scouts going to do that with near-equivalent combat capability in CC, no bonus for the scout sergeant carrying a power weapon and necrons getting 2 back to back saves vs. scouts getting one 4+? I'm not at "the sky is falling" levels of concern, but I raised an eyebrow at necrons because for an edition that favors volume of fire from massed infantry as a winning strategy, necrons have very little by way of downsides or counters for most armies. Sure, space wolves and orks and blood angels should be fine (if the latter aren't too preoccupied high fiving their best-xeno-bros), I'm no even too worried about my dark eldar vs. necrons. I do, however acknowledge that people are justifiably concerned until we see a few battle reports with the new codex and start to understand how it plays out. Also you are very unlikely to sweep warriors using scouts. That was probably a bad example and you're welcome to take a free chance at making another.
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Feb 9, 2015 22:03
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MasterSlowPoke posted:Necrons still don't have any really good answers to Monstrous Creatures. A Riptide is basically invulnerable unless you can catch it in assault and get lucky enough that you kill him before he smashes your command barge. Good combat units will also demolish anything outside of a Canoptek Harvest or a ridiculous Lychguard unit. Actually there's one formation that someone did point out provides pretty good Anti Air , the Judicator Battalion is really good at killing Monstrous Creatures and Flyers because of the target designated rule. Target Designated: At the start of each of the controlling player’s Shooting phases, nominate one enemy unit within line of sight of a Triarch Stalker from this Formation. All units from this Formation can re-roll failed To Hit, To Wound and armour penetration rolls against the nominated unit until the end of the phase. The Praetorians can purchase Nightscythes as dedicated Transports, which means they'll get the bonus. Two Nightscythes shooting at a FMC, MC, or Flyer, that reroll all to hit and reroll all to wounds. That's pretty good. Praetorians also have ST6 weapons that have a 12" range, the Particle Casters. I know I know but.. they can't get transported inside them. Who cares when they come on the board place them near a Immortal or any other squad and let them embark. That's not counting the whole, Triarchs can come in squads of 3 with twin linked h. Gauss or a 2 shot St8 Melta weapon. Also, the Praetorians are fearless, so you know enjoy that I guess. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Feb 9, 2015 |
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Feb 9, 2015 22:06
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:I'm not convinced it actually means anything. I'm legitimately confused because hes saying that they're treating it like a flagship product and dedicating all their resources to it, but that it is a bad thing? I don't get it.
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Feb 9, 2015 22:12
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Applying transfers to marine pads without Micro Sol is an exercise in frustration and futility. That is all.
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Feb 9, 2015 22:19
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koreban posted:How are scouts going to do that with near-equivalent combat capability in CC, no bonus for the scout sergeant carrying a power weapon and necrons getting 2 back to back saves vs. scouts getting one 4+? I am being more dismissive then I should be but if you throw 5 close combat scouts at a block of 10 warriors (possibly less since pistols+krak grenade will be used coming in) causes ~2 unsaved wounds after reanimation and whatnot while the warriors cause ~1 wound back. Sure you will stick in and probably not run on a 9 but that's ok. The scouts have traded very well by grinding down the warriors 1-2 at a time waiting for a sweep to break out and, more importantly, tied up a more expensive unit of 10 rapid fire gauss guns until one side or the other dies. If it goes the other way and the scouts run that's ok. They will stay in if swept and if I break out on his turn I can shoot and come in again. If those warriors shoot my scouts that means those versatile guns that can hurt anything in the game are not shooting my knights, bikes, chapter master, or whatever. poo poo I played on Saturday and threw a bolter scout (his buddies died in overwatch) into some immortals and killed one the charge then swept the unit. Those immortals were shooting and fighting my scouts which means they were not shooting my airplanes or grav cents. Naramyth fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Feb 9, 2015 |
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Feb 9, 2015 22:27
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Von Humboldt posted:Does buying models second-hand count as giving GW money? I mean, you're buying them from some mook, but he had to buy them from GW in the first. I need to make important moral decisions here - do I go for recycled and refurbished models, or free range premium non-GMO models from a third party company as the most ethical choice? this is good, because theres nothing you can do to undo the mook giving GW money in the first place, but you are then getting GW miniatures without giving GW money which is good
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Feb 9, 2015 22:29
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adamantium|wang posted:Applying transfers to marine pads without Micro Sol is an exercise in frustration and futility. I made the mistake of trying to put transfers on my Imperial Knight that I'd just finished without using micro set/sol. I will never do that again.
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Feb 9, 2015 22:31
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serious gaylord posted:What does this even mean? "This company did not do exactly what I wanted so they are a bad company full of bad people and I hope they die."
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Feb 9, 2015 22:38
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Feb 9, 2015 22:43
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Mange Mite posted:"This company did not do exactly what I wanted so they are a bad company full of bad people and I hope they die." Really seems like this is way overstating his opinion on the issue, but it's also true so w/e
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Feb 9, 2015 22:48
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hey so how about those solar auxilia huh This is what I think I'll be working towards. I want to run Household Retinue, but if FW can't be assed to make models I'm not going through the trouble of figuring out how to make the Veletaris carry axes and pistols. Other than that, this is pretty much it. HQ Lord Marshal + archaeotech pistol + cyber familiar + iron halo 120 points Auxilia Tactical Command Squad + 2 grenade launchers + 5 Veteran Auxilia 110 points Elites Auxilia Rapier Battery + 2 Rapier teams 105 points Auxilia Rapier Battery + 1 Rapier teams + 2 quad mortars 120 points Auxilia Ogryn Charonite Squad + Ogryn Charonite 240 points Troops Veletaris Storm Section + melta bombs + power fist + shroud bombs 160 points Veletaris Storm Section + melta bombs + power fist + shroud bombs 160 points Dedicated Transports Dracosan Armored Transport + Flare shield + pintle-mounted multi laser + demolisher cannon 200 points Dracosan Armored Transport + Flare shield + pintle-mounted multi laser + demolisher cannon 200 points Fast Attack Tarantula Sentry Gun Battery (3) + 3 Hyperios air-defence missile launcher 150 points Auxilia Leman Russ Strike Squadron (2 Annihilators) + 2 lascannons + 2 pintle-mounted multi lasers 380 points Heavy Support Auxilia Artillery Tank Battery (2 Basilisks) 320 points Auxilia Artillery Tank Battery (2 Basilisks) 320 points Auxilia Malcador Heavy Tank + twin-linked lascannon + lascannon + multi lasers + pintle-mounted multi lasers + Flare shield + Siege Armor 290 points This is just under 3k points. Man, the tanks add up fast.
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Feb 9, 2015 22:51
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If you dont like the way GW do a thing, you basically wish death upon them grim. dark.
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Feb 9, 2015 22:52
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Awwww poo poo, new Vraks book might finally make me start a traitor guard force.
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Feb 9, 2015 22:52
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Mange Mite posted:"This company did not do exactly what I wanted so they are a bad company full of bad people and I hope they die." I hope their crops will wither, their children die piteous deaths, and that their families suffer the cleaning of a 1000 mold lines. REAL MUSCLE MILK posted:What exactly were you 'naive' about? It'd be one thing if they were done with book 3 and Iron Warriors were still waiting but you just got your vehicle upgrades and your Contemptor is less than six months old. Look at Raven Guard. They have a singular release that was for 30k. You're making mountains out of molehills. You're making up a reason to be disenfranchised about release schedules that you're convinced you're being consciously ignored about. Bitching about waiting for bits is really silly, I agree, but it's what made me realize I'm not the only person getting sidelined to make money. There are armies missing important models or rules. Others have them printed, but keep getting pushed back. There are editing errors, rules conundrums, and little support for FAQs. Despite this they're full steam ahead on the next line of models and $100 expansion. Instead of consolidating things into a single place they're spreading them out more and more. This should sound familiar since its how GW runs 40k. We have a whole thread about why this upsets people. For some reason I figured FW was going to do things differently and I feel really dumb for thinking otherwise.
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Feb 9, 2015 22:54
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Forgeworlds the cool hip uncle when GWs your dad, and you think he's all cool and hip but then he forgets to pick you up from school that one time and you can never trust him again.
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Feb 9, 2015 22:58
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New plastic Shadowseer and Death Jester pics have leaked, plus some crappy shots of the Starweaver. Unless there's a 4th wave, the army has no Hq.
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Feb 9, 2015 23:19
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now you will all share my pain
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Feb 9, 2015 23:22
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Post pics you silly goon. 
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Feb 9, 2015 23:22
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BULBASAUR posted:Bitching about waiting for bits is really silly, I agree, but it's what made me realize I'm not the only person getting sidelined to make money. There are armies missing important models or rules. Others have them printed, but keep getting pushed back. There are editing errors, rules conundrums, and little support for FAQs. Despite this they're full steam ahead on the next line of models and $100 expansion. Instead of consolidating things into a single place they're spreading them out more and more. There are 6 Legions without a single model, upgrade pack or so much as a sniff of rules outside of a single relic. You're mad because they've not done what you wanted and instead adopted the mindset of 'give everyone something and flesh out the rest later'. This is despite the fact they could release an Iron Warriors upgrade set in a month or two. Theres loads of things that never get shown at the Weekender yet appear shortly after. Amazing.
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Feb 9, 2015 23:22
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If it can at least you some hope, FW said that all book 3 legions should have their poo poo before the Prospero book, which itself should be coming out before the end of 2016. Okay that doesn't mean much because that's more than a year away, but still.
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Feb 9, 2015 23:25
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Mango Polo posted:If it can at least you some hope, FW said that all book 3 legions should have their poo poo before the Prospero book, which itself should be coming out before the end of 2016. Also, I think they were specifically talking about Primarchs on that front since it sounds like Egan is doing Corax and either Perterabo or Dorn (but that wasn't clear).
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Feb 9, 2015 23:39
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Mango Polo posted:Post pics you silly goon. Sorry, I'm browsing on my phone and it was a huge pain to sort images. Starweaver is rather disappointing. Shadowseer is almost identical to the resin one.
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Feb 9, 2015 23:41
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Based on that image the shadowseer actually looks way worse than the old model. Maybe it's just poorly assembled or something.
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Feb 10, 2015 00:07
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