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Having briefly used a mechanical keyboard the other day, I realized how lovely my current keyboard is in comparison. Based on a video that I watched, I am interested in something with Cherry Browns. I guess I have two questions: 1. Is there some place where I can try out a keyboard with cherry browns (or any mechanical keyboards, for that matter)? Alternatively, a brand with a good return policy. All these mechanical boards are really expensive, I don't really want to get browns and wish I had gotten blues a week later. 2. I like to game, so I'd need something with NKRO or at least good enough to, for example, rocket jump in TF2. WASD Keyboard looks nice and within my price range. Are they NKRO though? I couldn't find it on the website.
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Aug 18, 2011 07:34
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Magic Underwear posted:1. Is there some place where I can try out a keyboard with cherry browns (or any mechanical keyboards, for that matter)? Alternatively, a brand with a good return policy. All these mechanical boards are really expensive, I don't really want to get browns and wish I had gotten blues a week later. You can try out best buy/fry's/microcenter and see if they have razer blackwidows (blues) and steelseries (blacks). I don't know of any retailer that carries browns though. WASD keyboards have NKRO over PS/2, 6KRO with usb.
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Aug 18, 2011 07:40
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Looks like a lot of praise for the Leopold with the browns. I think I'll get that one next time I get paid. I will post a trip report when it arrives.
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Aug 18, 2011 07:53
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Is anything beyond 6KRO impossible with USB? Just curious why there's always a discrepancy between the two.
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Aug 18, 2011 15:55
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DarkJC posted:Is anything beyond 6KRO impossible with USB? Just curious why there's always a discrepancy between the two. I believe it's a limit of the USB interface.
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Aug 18, 2011 16:06
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AlphaDog posted:I believe it's a limit of the USB interface. Its a limit with the physical circuitry of keyboards, technically this can be changed but its often not worth the cost.
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Aug 18, 2011 16:15
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Tab8715 posted:Its a limit with the physical circuitry of keyboards, technically this can be changed but its often not worth the cost. Nah, it's a limit of the USB Human Interface Device standard. Something like the Noppoo Choc Mini gets around it by presenting itself as many devices, and as thus works loving weirdly when the OS isn't aware of it. Device Class Definition for Human Interface Devices (HID) Version 1.11 posted:The Boot Keyboard shall report “Keyboard ErrorRollOver” in all array fields HalloKitty fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Aug 18, 2011 |
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Aug 18, 2011 17:46
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HalloKitty posted:Nah, it's a limit of the USB Human Interface Device standard. Sadly, from what I've read, the USB HID standard allows for NKRO, but the BIOS+OS must work together to turn it on. Since the BIOS guys don't care (6KRO is enough for any normal person), this flag never gets turned on, so the USB keyboard works in the primitive "boot mode" all the time, which is where the 6KRO limit comes from. At least, that's what this crazy keyboard guy says. Of course, I've never heard of anyone hitting the 6KRO limit in practice...even stories of 2KRO problems are pretty rare (unless you have a dumb board that ghosts W+A+Space or something). When I got my Filco, I hooked it up via PS/2, just so I could see all the keys light up in the keyboard tester when I mashed the board. I've since gone back to USB without issue.
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Aug 18, 2011 19:28
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With my old keyboard (plugged in via USB) I ran into issues with key rollover, but I'm not sure how many keys it supported at a time. The only time I ran into the issues were in games though. I'm sure if it was 6KRO it would've been fine even for games.
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Aug 18, 2011 19:34
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HalloKitty posted:Nah, it's a limit of the USB Human Interface Device standard. The even more  thing is that the reports on geekhack are kind of varied on how many devices it actually shows up as. It shows up as three on Windows 7 right now.I frequently unplug it and move it from workstation to workstation and see zero problems using it on Windows 7, Linux Mint(Ubuntu) and Debian Linux, so it works perfectly for me.
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Aug 18, 2011 19:59
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Stabby McDamage posted:Sadly, from what I've read, the USB HID standard allows for NKRO, but the BIOS+OS must work together to turn it on. Since the BIOS guys don't care (6KRO is enough for any normal person), this flag never gets turned on, so the USB keyboard works in the primitive "boot mode" all the time, which is where the 6KRO limit comes from. That's not quite the issue. The default mode is the standard report protocol, in which the keyboard explains what it's going to be sending (which can be as many keys as desired). The BIOS is supposed to either implement a full USB HID stack, or tell the keyboard that it's a simpleton, please use the simple mode laid out in the boot protocol. Once the OS starts, it resets all USB devices, so they go back to the report protocol, so the OS always has access to that. The problem is that not all BIOSes do tell the keyboard to use the boot protocol. Which means that if your report protocol doesn't happen to be the same as the boot protocol, your keyboard won't work in some BIOSes at all (and despite the fact that it's the fault of the BIOS, which party do you think consumers will blame?). There are basically three options for working around it. First, do what the noppoo choc mini is doing and pretend to be three keyboards (doesn't work with OSX). Second, pretend to be two keyboard - one that's marked as a boot device and does the boot protocol, but some flags to make an OS HID drive ignore everything it says, and a second keyboard that does full USB NKRO that's ignored by the OS (better than the three keyboard version, but still risks some issues). Three, use a report protocol that just happens to also conform to the boot protocol, which will allow non-compliant BIOSes to read it as well (as long as they can handle the larger packet size... some might crash, which sounds worse, but the consumer will probably blame the true culprit). #3 seems like the best option, and a few keyboards are likely using it (most notably, the MS Sidewinder X4). It's probably been limited in use in practice because before Windows 7 SP1, issues with the USB HID driver could cause problems if you exceeded 6KRO anyway.
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Aug 18, 2011 23:31
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Can anyone recommend a keyboard where they keys are sealed? I'm a smoker, more so when I game and it would nice just have having to wipe the keyboard instead vacuuming it.
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Aug 19, 2011 11:12
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zelah posted:thanks to this last page I just ordered a red ESC, space bar, and numpad 5 for my g6v2 Didn't totally work 
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Aug 19, 2011 22:18
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I've seen some complaints in the past about the wire key puller scratching keys. Well, WASD has recently added a plastic key puller. I want to order a WASD keyboard but I'm afraid I won't like whatever custom color scheme I decide to go with... or if I just go all black then I'm not really taking advantage of it...
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Aug 19, 2011 22:39
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Zhentar posted:I've seen some complaints in the past about the wire key puller scratching keys. Well, WASD has recently added a plastic key puller. I ended up wrapping tape around my wire key puller, and it worked pretty well. (No visible scratches on *any* of the keys.
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Aug 19, 2011 22:45
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Zhentar posted:I've seen some complaints in the past about the wire key puller scratching keys. Well, WASD has recently added a plastic key puller. I have that WASD plastic key puller (they give you one with a keyboard) and it kind of makes visible markings on the keys since its very tight and not that flexible. Just make your own wire puller.
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Aug 20, 2011 01:19
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Now I'm a little paranoid. In what way are the wire puller scratching the keys? As far as I can tell, it should just slip around the bottom of the key and pull it upward without any sharp edges or whatever. Is the wire itself digging into the bottom edge of the keycaps?
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Aug 20, 2011 01:22
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404notfound posted:Now I'm a little paranoid. In what way are the wire puller scratching the keys? As far as I can tell, it should just slip around the bottom of the key and pull it upward without any sharp edges or whatever. Is the wire itself digging into the bottom edge of the keycaps? I think people are scratching adjacent key-faces while inserting the puller.
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Aug 20, 2011 03:07
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Has anyone done the O-Ring mod on some Browns yet? Well, I just did it and it's awesome, pretty much eliminated my only peeve from moving to mechanical: plastic hitting plastic is kind of unpleasant in games, especially in the space bar's case. Incidentally I also ordered 2 blank 1.25x keys to replace the ugly windows keys that came with the Filco, looks much more streamlined now, bought all this from WASD and that poo poo came in 2 loving days and I live in Virginia, I really want an excuse to buy a custom with blues now.
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Aug 20, 2011 05:00
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4000 Dollar Suit posted:Has anyone done the O-Ring mod on some Browns yet? I've been hesitant to mainly because of the possibility of scratching. What o-rings and key puller did you use?
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Aug 20, 2011 07:40
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I used the O-Rings from WASD, and I pulled the keys out with my fingers  The WASD keys I put on the Filco are really difficult to remove, I'm assuming it's the same way times 144 on a WASD keyboard. If you can get just 1 key out the others shouldn't be a problem with just your fingers.zelah posted:Didn't totally work The Steelseries' space-bar has 3 switches? Wouldn't this have you double tapping space key all the time? runaway dog fucked around with this message at 10:00 on Aug 20, 2011 |
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Aug 20, 2011 09:31
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I couldn't find any suitable O-Rings from the local hardware store so I ordered some from WASD. The shipping was $1,48. I live in Finland so that's pretty drat nice. It's through the USPS so I'm expecting them somewhere around December 2012.
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Aug 20, 2011 09:58
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I finally have a bit of money I can spend on my PC & I'm thinking about getting a mechanical keyboard. I don't really care about use for gaming since I'll also have a Logitech G13, but I'm also a student so I'll be doing a fair bit of writing most likely. I'd rather get a blue switch keyboard, but I'm afraid the 5 other people in my house would beat me to death with it in my sleep, so I'd probably have to go with browns. Is WASD keyboards a good way to go? Das Keyboard? What has a good return policy, just in case?
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Aug 20, 2011 13:06
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Arcsech posted:I finally have a bit of money I can spend on my PC & I'm thinking about getting a mechanical keyboard. I don't really care about use for gaming since I'll also have a Logitech G13, but I'm also a student so I'll be doing a fair bit of writing most likely. I'd rather get a blue switch keyboard, but I'm afraid the 5 other people in my house would beat me to death with it in my sleep, so I'd probably have to go with browns. Is WASD keyboards a good way to go? Das Keyboard? What has a good return policy, just in case? Blues aren't THAT loud, my girlfriend can be sleeping in the same room as I type on them. Das has a 30-day money back policy and student discounts, not sure about WASD's though
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Aug 20, 2011 16:48
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I've done a bit of poking around and can only fine one legit chiclet style keyboard beside apple's, the Azio KB503U. Are there any others out there that are good that I haven't been able to find? I have no problem getting the wired apple one if I settle on getting a chiclet but curious if I'm somehow missing one made by logitech or a company along those lines?
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Aug 21, 2011 14:09
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ClosedBSD posted:Blues aren't THAT loud, my girlfriend can be sleeping in the same room as I type on them. I went & tried a Razer Blackwidow at Best Buy & I think you're right, it wouldn't be too bad. How's the build quality on those? I see people talking about occasional oversized keys in reviews, but Amazon has them for $60, and it's hard to justify doubling that for WASD or Das if the Razed is any good.
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Aug 21, 2011 21:15
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Arcsech posted:I went & tried a Razer Blackwidow at Best Buy & I think you're right, it wouldn't be too bad. My mate has the Razer Blackwidow with all the lighting, and his fiancee has the one without. They're both pretty drat nice keyboards, although I hate the illuminated one in the dark. Also, being in their study with them while they're both gaming sounds like "clickclickclickclickclickclickclick", but it's not that annoying.
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Aug 22, 2011 05:30
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4000 Dollar Suit posted:I used the O-Rings from WASD, and I pulled the keys out with my fingers 2 of those are stabilizers. I'm getting key chatter on my r key graaaaaaah
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Aug 22, 2011 13:15
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Quick question. Will a wireless mouse/keyboard be reliable for gaming? My current set up will have me sitting about 6-7 feet from the tower (Connected to the TV). I've heard theres input lag problems. I dont want lag.
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Aug 23, 2011 01:02
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Depends on the mouse and how sensitive you are to such things, I have a 3 year old Logitech GX wireless (this months iteration of which is named "Logitech Marathon Mouse M705") and I can definitely feel it. The cheaper but newer Logitech M305 laptop mouse I would say feels more responsive, but it's still slightly there. The former atleast seems to have gone through changes to its wireless - it went from using a bespoke wedge-shaped receiver (that can slide into the front to turn it off), to using the nano-receiver and now uses the unifying-receiver. As far as keyboards I dare and say you might not notice the lag at all - there's much fewer input's that need to be sent (and maybe buffered at some point) than with a mouse.
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Aug 23, 2011 06:04
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codo27 posted:Quick question. Will a wireless mouse/keyboard be reliable for gaming? My current set up will have me sitting about 6-7 feet from the tower (Connected to the TV). I've heard theres input lag problems. I dont want lag. Depends depends depends. On lots of stuff including distance, brand, usage, and so on. I've never actually had a lag problem with wireless keyboards or mice but since I do all my computer usage at a desk and only use wireless stuff at other people's places, I probably haven't used it enough to make a call. When I used to raid in WoW (yeah yeah) the guild had a rule about telling you to gently caress yourself (and then excluding you from stuff) if you ever went "I gotta replace my keyboard/mouse batteries" in the middle of a fight and ruined the attempt. So that's a concern if you play super serious nerd games with super serious nerds.
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Aug 23, 2011 06:23
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Those that have WASD keyboards. How long did the free shipping take for ya? I swear I read people say it only took a couple days. I ordered Friday night, and it says its still sitting at the UPS store in San Jose. I know how inaccurate the tracking stuff can be, though. It says the expected delivery date is by the end of the day next Monday.
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Aug 23, 2011 07:00
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Gazaar posted:I've done a bit of poking around and can only fine one legit chiclet style keyboard beside apple's, the Azio KB503U. Are there any others out there that are good that I haven't been able to find? I have no problem getting the wired apple one if I settle on getting a chiclet but curious if I'm somehow missing one made by logitech or a company along those lines?
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Aug 23, 2011 12:32
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codo27 posted:Quick question. Will a wireless mouse/keyboard be reliable for gaming? My current set up will have me sitting about 6-7 feet from the tower (Connected to the TV). I've heard theres input lag problems. I dont want lag. I haven't used any "gAm1nG gRaD3" wireless devices, but on my good logitech officey stuff the lag is definitely noticeable. I never really did notice it until starting Starcraft, though. I played WoW with it just fine. Here's a test: plug up both a wireless and wired keyboard. Spam 134134134 or something. You will notice the difference.
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Aug 23, 2011 13:39
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CancerStick posted:Those that have WASD keyboards. How long did the free shipping take for ya? I swear I read people say it only took a couple days. I ordered Friday night, and it says its still sitting at the UPS store in San Jose. I know how inaccurate the tracking stuff can be, though. It says the expected delivery date is by the end of the day next Monday. Mine did this and the delivery date has been the same since they started the shipping United States 08/16/2011 9:01 P.M. Order Processed: Ready for UPS San Jose, CA, United States 08/16/2011 6:37 P.M. The shipment has been dropped off and is now at The UPS Store®. San Jose, CA, United States 08/17/2011 8:13 A.M. The shipment has been dropped off and is now at The UPS Store®. San Pablo, CA, United States 08/18/2011 4:27 A.M. Departure Scan NJ, United States 08/23/2011 10:11 A.M. Arrival Scan Scheduled Delivery Updated To: Wednesday, 08/24/2011, By End of Day
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Aug 23, 2011 15:59
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Yea. I think I've been spoiled by Amazon's free shipping. Now I know when it comes to UPS, to pay for shipping. The original delivery date in my email was 8/26. Scheduled Delivery Updated To: Monday, 08/29/2011, By End of Day Last Location: Departed - San Pablo, CA, United States, Tuesday, 08/23/2011 Shipped/Billed On: 08/19/2011 Type: Package Weight: 5.00 lbs Shipment Progress What's This? Location Date Local Time Activity San Pablo, CA, United States 08/23/2011 3:07 A.M. Departure Scan 08/23/2011 3:02 A.M. Arrival Scan San Jose, CA, United States 08/22/2011 11:34 P.M. Departure Scan San Jose, CA, United States 08/20/2011 11:55 A.M. The shipment has been dropped off and is now at The UPS Store®. United States 08/19/2011 7:57 P.M. Order Processed: Ready for UPS
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Aug 23, 2011 19:33
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Gaming on these Browns with the O Ring mod is so dreamy. I can't imagine why anyone would chose to use Blacks they sound lame.
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Aug 24, 2011 00:45
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Got my rubber rings, and I don't like using them on my Filco browns letters. I use them for my volume keys and will find some other keys to augment, but I don't like the decreased depth of the depression the ring gives on some of the keys, which makes it a lot easier to "bottom out", albeit with rubber dampening. I'm sure it would be perfect for all blacks, though. In other words, it's not for everyone and all purposes, but definitely try it out. They're so cheap from WASD Keyboards with their $2 international shipping.
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Aug 30, 2011 20:11
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ufarn posted:Got my rubber rings, and I don't like using them on my Filco browns letters. I use them for my volume keys and will find some other keys to augment, but I don't like the decreased depth of the depression the ring gives on some of the keys, which makes it a lot easier to "bottom out", albeit with rubber dampening. I got my set of rubbers today too and actually really like them. I didn't like how hard it felt when the keys bottomed out and the rubber rings make it a bit softer so typing is now quite a bit more comfortable. I guess it's a matter of preference and style of typing. I pretty much always bottom out so the decreased depth doesn't matter. I have a Filco with blues.
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Aug 30, 2011 20:22
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General Emergency posted:I got my set of rubbers today too and actually really like them. I didn't like how hard it felt when the keys bottomed out and the rubber rings make it a bit softer so typing is now quite a bit more comfortable. I guess it's a matter of preference and style of typing. I pretty much always bottom out so the decreased depth doesn't matter.
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Aug 30, 2011 20:28
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