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This is kind of a broad topic, but I've been getting the urge to get into some historical naval gaming. More specifically I guess it's either Napoleonics or Russo-Japanese era stuff. Is naval stuff trickier to get into? What kind of rules/systems do you guys use?
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Oct 19, 2011 03:21
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CNN Sports Ticker posted:This is kind of a broad topic, but I've been getting the urge to get into some historical naval gaming. I've tried two systems for naval combat, and that's the Axis & Allies collectible WW2 naval game and Trafalgar from Warhammer Historicals. Ruleswise these are both pretty simple games, as in "grognards to no approve". But they are both fun. Personally, I prefer Trafalgar, maybe because it is more centered on one thing; ships-of-the-line battling it out, and because it is even more clear that manouvers and planning where to be in a turn or three is everything in naval combat. I wrote a short round-up of Trafalgar earlier in this thread (and I have to leave for work soon), so I won't do it here. But it is pretty much a game where movement is simple yet punishing if you do stupid things, and the shooting is typical GW "4+ to hit, saving throws" so it is really intuitive to people who have ever played a GW game. The plus side of naval gaming is that you can usually have an exciting game with as little as 6-8 ships on the table. Total. For Trafalgar we only bought a starter set in scale 1:1200 from Langton each which is four ships, and that was plenty. Of course you can get more and play big battles that lasts days, but for us it is enough with a quick game of 1-1.5 hours, so four-five ships each is all it takes. There are more historically accurate games than Trafalgar, but I think it is a great entry point for a beginner, straddling the middle ground between 40K and spreadsheets. You need to plan movement a lot more carefully than in most games, but it is still clearly beer & pretzels. I have a list of home rules that makes it a much better game, if you decide to get it, as some rules do get in the way a bit. For example, the weather rules are very exaggerated and there are some parts when it comes to damage resolution for collisions that doesn't make sense for the Napoleonic period. But it's not a difficult system to tweak.
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Oct 19, 2011 05:27
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I have Trafalgar, and one of these days I'll finish these ships up, but the rules seem great. I do wish they'd come out with some more fleet lists (The US, especially), but that's okay. I've heard good things about Master & Commander, and it's free: http://www.capitan-games.com/master-commander/ And of course there's Too Fat Lardies' Kiss Me, Hardy: http://toofatlardies.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9&products_id=52&zenid=f15ef26c36dc317a08bfd0856b79df67 You really can never go wrong with a Too Fat Lardies game. lilljonas posted:I wrote a short round-up of Trafalgar earlier in this thread Second post in the thread, part of the OP on purpose. 
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Oct 19, 2011 13:03
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Colonial Air Force posted:I have Trafalgar, and one of these days I'll finish these ships up, but the rules seem great. I do wish they'd come out with some more fleet lists (The US, especially), but that's okay. Do you mean alternative fleet lists? The US are covered in the core rules. Granted they only have frigates... It shouldn't be too difficult to make your own lists. Pretty much all normal ships have similar points and the same rules, and the lists mostly differ in what is available and if you have Britain's "yes we are that broken" special rule or not.
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Oct 19, 2011 17:20
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More like, there are no commanders for the Americans, and no rules for Old Ironsides.
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Oct 19, 2011 19:32
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Colonial Air Force posted:More like, there are no commanders for the Americans, and no rules for Old Ironsides. Ah, I see. Well, it's not like we've ever considered using the special characters/ships anyway. (Sweden doesn't get poo poo either, and our fleet is woefully feeble compared to any other fleet than the Russian  )
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Oct 19, 2011 20:02
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But I want Preble and Bainbridge to attack Tripoli 
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Oct 19, 2011 20:05
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Numlock posted:Have many of you guys into Flames of war played Axis and Allies miniatures? I picked up the starter and a couple of the booster packs (random contents) on a whim and its great. Can get a game set up and done in an hour since most armies are 2-4 tanks and a handful of infantry. I played for probably 4 or 5 years. It's pretty easy and fast, not a lot of really complicated rules or tactics. Some of the stuff about hero units and paratroopers is kinda silly though. I have a fishing tackle box full of infantry. I would sell it to you cheap - It would be a great way for you to fill in the basics, like infantry, commanders, mortars, MG teams, etc. I tried sending a PM but I guess you don't have any. email me at pmglasser at gmail dot com if you are interested. Arquinsiel posted:The quality is pretty much what you'd expect from soft-plastic prepaints, and the scale is random throughout the early sets. Apparently the later sets are true 15mil armour, but the infantry I have no clue about. I think there's a unit limit now, but it's been several years since I played. I think it's 15 units per 100 point army so you can't spam infantry any more.
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Oct 20, 2011 20:38
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I think I'm going to start using FOW models instead of buying more AAM models as they look better and the more I read about FOW the more I like it. Seems simple enough to buy single FOW models and use them for AAM games.space pope posted:I tried sending a PM but I guess you don't have any. email me at pmglasser at gmail dot com if you are interested. Thanks for the offer but my nemesis picked up a few more boosters earlier this week and it roughly restored the balance of forces. Got a king tiger and a grab-bag of tank destroyers. I doubt we will be picking up more since the only thing I want that I don't have is a Panther of some sort, and I can just buy a FOW model.
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Oct 21, 2011 02:43
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Next month's Wargames Illustrated has an article about Black Powder: Last Argument of Kings and, as I suspected, a supplement that's just for AWI is coming soon.
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Oct 24, 2011 17:51
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Sounds good. Must not get into AWI. Ive just pre-ordered the new Hail Caesar supplement, and tomorrow we start our gaming groups gladiator campaign. Tomorrow is the slave auction- togas optional!
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Oct 24, 2011 17:52
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Serotonin posted:Sounds good. Must not get into AWI. The biblical one? I'm not interested in the time period itself, but the book certainly looks promising.
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Oct 24, 2011 18:13
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After playing a few games of AAM my friend and I are already talking about rules changes and scenario making. Seems the Flames of war campaign books would be a good guide as nether of us are huge WWII nerds so we need a starting point. So If I was interested in Flames of War and wanted to play various American and German forces in Northern France I would pick up the Turning Tide and Earth and Steel books? "Why not just play FOW?" My friend and I are interested in keeping things small as we have limited space in which to play and both of us are wary of dropping a huge amount of money in the game. We already have a lot more AAM units than I ever intended to buy (made the mistake of giving my friend a blank check with "Sure just pick up some stuff and I'll re-inverse you 50%... OH GOD YOU BOUGHT HOW MUCH???) We also like AAM rule set (and hexes). Also both of us played WH40k years ago and that kind of burned us out on huge battles were we have to argue about whether some guy has LOS on some tank through some tiny crack in some bit of terrain we can't agree should have been there or 1 inch to the left because somebody is a hamfisted moron who.... In any case I'm planning on picking up Open Fire as our interests are American and German tanks. Battle Arts and crafts  150 points of Germans trying to hold a defensive line vs every goddamn Russian (~300 points) we could muster. Did not end well for the Huns.
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Oct 25, 2011 01:29
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Limited space gaming is an artform in and of itself. I can't remember if the hexes in Memoir 44 or Tide of Iron would be big enough to use for AAM but they would give you some good variety of terrain if you wanted to invest. I'd recomend skipping the FoW army list books entirely TBH, if you're going for just ideas for the Das Book scenario and special rules book. Should set you back around  new IIRC.
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Oct 25, 2011 02:47
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If your not actually going to play FOW but want the books for inspiration then try to find the old books 2nd hand cheap. They have more history written in them as Turning Tide and Earth and Steel are army list collections.
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Oct 25, 2011 07:34
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Last platoon I needed to paint for the Tournament this weekend.  
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Oct 26, 2011 07:52
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My copy of DBA arrived in the mail. Thus begins the slippery slope. On that note, is DBA Online any good?
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Oct 28, 2011 06:47
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CNN Sports Ticker posted:My copy of DBA arrived in the mail. Thus begins the slippery slope. I have no idea, but the army lists on the site are an older version. Still a nifty resource with the pictures and easy links to historical opponents.
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Oct 28, 2011 16:51
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My copy of the new Hail Caesar Biblical and Classical army lists book arrived today and what a lovely book it is. 60 odd lists with a bit of fluff on each and even point values (which Im a bit surprised about). Lots of nice pics and tips. Best thing was inside the package was a 10% voucher off my next order to apologise for the delay in the release of the book. Funny thing is that I only got round to pre-ordering it just over a week ago!
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Oct 29, 2011 11:52
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Hey guys been a while since I posted as real life caught up with me. I've just finished my first stand of the Crusaders and I'm pretty happy with the way the base came out as its my first go of doing a desert attempt. Sorry for the crappy pictures camera and lighting are pap. They are also quite close up shots when I'm hoping for more of a good tied together finished 15mm Army as a whole. What do you guys reckon?   And started the second stand which will be Knights of the Kingdom of Jerusalem.  
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Oct 31, 2011 22:32
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Just updating with a nearly finished Infantry stand. (Just needs the base finishing.) And generally better quality photos than the crap above.    
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Nov 1, 2011 22:52
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Those all look really great.
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Nov 1, 2011 23:49
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Really nice. I keep having the urge to do the Crusades. Maybe using Hail Caesar.
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Nov 2, 2011 08:44
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Serotonin posted:Really nice. I keep having the urge to do the Crusades. Maybe using Hail Caesar. Between the awesome painting and having just watched Kingdom of Heaven this week, I'm feeling a similar urge.
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Nov 2, 2011 09:16
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That's some really nice crusaders. The Knights of Jerusalem looks great. The Templars too, although they might be a little bit too dirty/dark for my personal taste. You don't need any painting advice from me though, so the only thing I'd recommend is to assemble the models before painting. I assume you left the lances off the Jerusalem knights to make it easier to give them flags? Just take care about gluing them on. You don't want to glue paint to paint for a weak joint, particularly not on 15mm weapons. Meanwhile, in my little dungeon, I just assembled the last of my next batch of DBA models that should keep me occupied for a while. A Sung Chinese army and some european spearmen. Plus some Fatimid cavalry by Essex, that are rather bad models and I hate them already and am gonna try to get them killed and lose every battle I play with them just because.
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Nov 2, 2011 18:53
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Thanks for the advice. I'm still learning with these. I have been leaving the lances off the knights and them adding them after, although I am fully assembling and basing the infantry stands before painting as they look a bit sturdier. As luck would have it I have loving lost or thrown out the lab bag that I had them stored in so now I Have knights with no pointy sticks. I have heard anyway that its a good idea to use brass rods as replacements, anyone with any experience of doing this swap? Here's a quick update on my FoW Soviet Assualt Gun Company. Again they are quite roughed up, but it seems to be how I like things although I keep promising myself I am going to do one of these exagerated comic looking styles at some point so that someone can tell me how much they "pop" or something.     
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Nov 2, 2011 21:23
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big_g posted:As luck would have it I have loving lost or thrown out the lab bag that I had them stored in so now I Have knights with no pointy sticks. I have heard anyway that its a good idea to use brass rods as replacements, anyone with any experience of doing this swap? Well, I have used brass spears here and there. It's worth it sometimes, like on pikemen. I much prefer the occasional stab wound to banana pikes any time I accidentally put my hand down on one. And on standard bearers and models with really soft/flimsy weapons. Anything by Xyston (well, of course that's because they come without weapons). There's ready-made ones available, but they're also easy to make. Some thin brass rod, hammer one end flat, dremel it into a spear tip. Lances, much the same I assume, though I think it'd be enough just to rounding off the end rather than shaping it into a spear tip. I'll admit though, haven't had to replace any lances yet (although I'm tempted to, particularly on my Roman cavalry with their soft as hell weaponry). With manufacturers like Mirliton who use white metal or similar it's usually not a big problem. In cases where the weapons come separately, replacing them is easy though and makes the models easier to handle, so it might be worth it for that reason sometimes. Also, those tanks look bloody gorgeous. I just love the look of russian tank destroyers, and that worn roughed up look make them "pop" like a BT-7 at Kursk. Stop tempting me, man!
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Nov 2, 2011 22:38
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big_g posted: )
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Nov 2, 2011 23:14
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Any time a figure is supplied with separate weapons, I always use brass rod to arm them. For 15mm, you don't need to really shape a point on them, as spears at that scale look fine with painted silver tips. For 25mm, I would hammer out and trim spear heads on them. I have even used brass rods to fab up swords and maces for Sassanid cavalry. For swords, hammer out the rod into a flat blade, then trim the brass to shape. For maces, a lump of green stuff can shape into a mace-head. With knights, you can try using greenstuff to fashion the conical lance thing. I prefer to use straight rods and then make flags for them, especially in 15mm.  These are some of my Spaniards that have brass lances and homemade flags. The spearmen in the background are also brass armed.
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Nov 3, 2011 20:14
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So I did this thing, then took a cellphone photo of it. The green looks much more muted in person, I textured the base before I glued down the truck, and chestnut ink should never be photographed - but am I doing anything historically terrible here? I've seen crew in softcaps, but my guy has a helmet. And I haven't got any unit markings at all. 
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Nov 5, 2011 02:19
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Looks fine to me. I might be wrong, but I am sure I have read that unit markings/red stars etc on Soviet equipment is a bit of a wargaming vanity and other than a few units in a few theatres at particular times, most Soviet stuff had no markings at all.
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Nov 5, 2011 08:30
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Where would you guys recommend looking for 28mm 1450-1500 year range Italian mercenaries, looking to double for a counts-as-Empire/Dogs of War WFB army? Also, I've been looking at Old Glory's 25-28mm range and some on Perry Miniatures but I can't really get a good feel for their quality or size comparisons to GW models.
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Nov 5, 2011 10:13
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Mr Burglar Man posted:Where would you guys recommend looking for 28mm 1450-1500 year range Italian mercenaries, looking to double for a counts-as-Empire/Dogs of War WFB army? Perry Miniatures are just slightly smaller than GW models, but not so much that you notice it. After all, most Fantasy miniatures are not humans, so it doesn't matter so much that your average humans are like 0.5mm shorter than other average humans. The horses are much more noticable, since the GW horses are so gigantic. If I was thinking about doing anything around 1450-1500 I would probably take a very long and careful look at the Perry plastic kits, as they are dirt cheap compared to everything else, and plastic miniatures are easy to carry around. They are also of a high quality, though I admit that I am a biased Perry fanboy. I have only bought a single pack from Old Glory, but my impression was that it was cheap, but far lower quality than Perry Miniatures. The size of the OG samurai I bought and my Perry samurai are not so big that I don't plan to include them in the same collection, but then I'm of the "hey people wary in size in real life too, so what?" school of thought. If it was me, I'd probably make the bulk of the army with Perry plastics and then look outside the Perry range when you want things that you can't easily convert.
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Nov 5, 2011 10:30
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lilljonas posted:Perry Miniatures are just slightly smaller than GW models, but not so much that you notice it. After all, most Fantasy miniatures are not humans, so it doesn't matter so much that your average humans are like 0.5mm shorter than other average humans. The horses are much more noticable, since the GW horses are so gigantic. If I was thinking about doing anything around 1450-1500 I would probably take a very long and careful look at the Perry plastic kits, as they are dirt cheap compared to everything else, and plastic miniatures are easy to carry around. They are also of a high quality, though I admit that I am a biased Perry fanboy. Thanks! I was looking at this in particular, for less than $30US it's a steal. Other than OG, what else would you happen to recommend?
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Nov 5, 2011 10:57
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Serotonin posted:Looks fine to me. I might be wrong, but I am sure I have read that unit markings/red stars etc on Soviet equipment is a bit of a wargaming vanity and other than a few units in a few theatres at particular times, most Soviet stuff had no markings at all. A cursory Google Image Search seems to agree with you.
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Nov 5, 2011 14:08
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Here's some stuff for DBA that I thought I'd share. Started working on some Sung Chinese, and as usual I start with the cool units, which for the Sung means artillery. The army pack I bought came with two ballistas, which are quite boring, and through my very superficial research not the weapon you'd associate with the Sung. I threw them in the bitz box, and instead opted to make my own artillery, going for a couple of "crouching tiger" catapults. They turned out nice enough, so now I'm considering making a couple of european style counterweight trebuchets too.   I giggled at this Osprey illustration, apparently drawn by MC Escher. Later Sung armies used a much cooler form of artillery though. Rockets! I couldn't resist making some rocket batteries to kick some Mongol rear end with.  Now I'm halfway through 4 stands of crossbows.
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Nov 5, 2011 14:45
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Thanks, I'd been looking at reference photos but it was very confusing: The WWII photos don't show markings, but every scale models and museum piece does. I was suspicious that it was Stalin-era censorship of identifying marks in photos to conceal troop movements or something.
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Nov 5, 2011 16:42
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I think most Soviet AFVs and vehicles came straight out of the factory, had a rushed spray of some form of green paint, drove out, turned left towards the front line and then had a life expectancy of about three weeks.
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Nov 5, 2011 20:25
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Yeah big_g has it. Plus scale modellers and wargamers love decals. Russians are my next project and you can bet I will be sticking stars and slogans all over them even though I know its not really that accurrate.
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Nov 5, 2011 20:47
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Mr Burglar Man posted:Thanks! I was looking at this in particular, for less than $30US it's a steal. Other than OG, what else would you happen to recommend? Exactly, with the two boxes and some elbow grease you can make halbierds, pikes, bows and crossbows, probably swordsmen too without too much hassle. If you are lucky and some of the speculations are correct, there will be a cavalry set somewhere in the future. I'm not that well suited to help you with the rest of the army, as it is somewhere in the end of Medieval period and before the Renaissance really kicks in. I'm really not an expert in that period, and I haven't researched the availability of miniatures, especially 28mm, that well. If you think Italian Wars and early Renaissance, there's Eureka Miniatures for gendarmes, though they are a bit pricey, and The Assault Group have an extensive Renaissance range as well. Artizan Designs have late medieval/early Renaissance Swiss and Landsknechts. Venexia have some Condottieri miniatures. Foundry has everything as usual but is also very pricy as usual. Exactly how historical do you want your army to be? For example, are you bothered if the helmet types are a few decades off? A good idea is to browse around with google and on TMP and such places, find painted armies that look nice, and see what they have used.
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Nov 5, 2011 21:26
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