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Lord Yod posted:So this is kind of an edge case, but the X55 has (if my math is correct) 32 buttons, a three way switch, on top of the 6 axes, all on the throttle. Is this gonna be a hard limit on inputs, meaning I'll need to bind keyboard commands using Saitek's software, or is this something you can bump up? Unity goes up to 20 buttons per joystick, across 4 joysticks right now (I think it technically accepts 8, I can look at that). The game can read/bind from any joystick/button input or specific ones in the binding screen (ex: anyaxis1 vs joy3axis1). It's pretty dumb, meaning if you switch your joystick order around and you're relying on a specific device axis, it will have trouble. The testers I am working with say that joystick order problems are pretty normal, and as long as it supports all the inputs, they're used to dealing with it. Gamepads are significantly easier to deal with because I just read from any axis/button in the configs. So if you (un)plug it, and it somehow ends up on another joystick device, it's fine. I am guessing this is what other programs do that annoys some users, so hopefully it's fine. I'm waiting on testers to give me some more feedback on it. You can also choose simple response curves for pitch/yaw (basically gamepad and raw, the latter meaning it relies on your software). deck posted:Are you using Unity's built-in Input Manager or something else? Sort of, but it's not the awful binding menu in the launcher. I still read my data from Unity's input manager, I just map the actions to buttons/axes after the fact using my own code.
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Mar 18, 2015 00:01
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Have you checked out any of the other input managers? The guys on the gamedev threads seen to like InControl
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Mar 18, 2015 01:26
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Kairo posted:This is the first iteration of the new bindings menu. Lord Yod posted:So this is kind of an edge case, but the X55 has (if my math is correct) 32 buttons, a three way switch, on top of the 6 axes, all on the throttle. Is this gonna be a hard limit on inputs, meaning I'll need to bind keyboard commands using Saitek's software, or is this something you can bump up? (Also there's stuff like the three way switches that I struggle to even think how they'd be useful without the software to change them to single inputs rather than continuous signals. Buying a big HOTAS is kinda accepting that you're good to fiddle with a lot of remapping for simple game, in exchange for excellent native support in complex simulation games. The people who bought x55s or warthogs for Star Citizen are gonna live in permanent frustration.)
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Mar 18, 2015 03:08
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Klyith posted:(Also there's stuff like the three way switches that I struggle to even think how they'd be useful without the software to change them to single inputs rather than continuous signals. Buying a big HOTAS is kinda accepting that you're good to fiddle with a lot of remapping for simple game, in exchange for excellent native support in complex simulation games. The people who bought x55s or warthogs for Star Citizen are gonna live in permanent frustration.) If you mean the toggles, they're all momentary.
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Mar 18, 2015 03:16
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dupersaurus posted:Have you checked out any of the other input managers? The guys on the gamedev threads seen to like InControl I keep up with them, they're pretty cool. I'd totally use InControl if I didn't have to support anything other than gamepads. Last I checked, you can make new device classes, but it also doesn't do config style rebinding (IIRC this was proposed on their source depot, but denied). I'm not going to sign up for hand-coding joysticks and updating Starfighter just to support new ones. That sounds awful.  I am pretty confident this will all work OK, so I'm not intending to do much more work on the controls/bindings other than bug fixing and the adding the occasional bind command. There's WAY more important gameplay stuff to be doing, especially when KBAM and gamepads already work fine.
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Mar 18, 2015 16:59
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DatonKallandor posted:X-Wing and TIE are fairly hardcore - they have manual power management, multiple energy systems with different gameplay effects and a decently complex damage model that lets individual systems be knocked out. Later X-Wing games even have ships that lack the automatic convergence gimbals and require the player to manually toggle between different convergence points. Not trying to drift the thread, but I wanted to point out Rogue System - this failed to kickstart, but the dev kept going. It's a _deep_ spaceflight sim that he intends to be along the same lines as IL-2 level simulators. http://imagespaceinc.com/rogsys/
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Mar 18, 2015 17:26
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Klyith posted:x55 also registers as two devices, so you'll get 40 inputs and all the axis available -- from the looks of the game that probably covers almost everything. My point was that all the inputs I listed are on the throttle - the stick is a reasonably accurate repro of an F16 or A10 stick with the major difference being a single stage on the trigger. This isn't a huge issue, especially if the game winds up being like Elite. I've bound every single control to the HOTAS and still only use like half the buttons. I just thought I'd mention it as it seems likely that a number of people who bought sticks like this or a warthog or something will be interested in this game. (I bought mine for BMS/DCS and knew what I was getting into)
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Mar 18, 2015 21:33
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Hav posted:Not trying to drift the thread, but I wanted to point out Rogue System - this failed to kickstart, but the dev kept going. It's a _deep_ spaceflight sim that he intends to be along the same lines as IL-2 level simulators. I'm glad he did, even if I feel that the end result will be unplayable. I can handle IL-2, but IIRC, this was going to be more analogous to a modern fighter jet simulator.
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Mar 18, 2015 21:48
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Kairo posted:I keep up with them, they're pretty cool. I'd totally use InControl if I didn't have to support anything other than gamepads. Last I checked, you can make new device classes, but it also doesn't do config style rebinding (IIRC this was proposed on their source depot, but denied). I'm not going to sign up for hand-coding joysticks and updating Starfighter just to support new ones. That sounds awful. Yeah, at that point you're just writing another input manager on an input manager. Screw that. Lord Yod posted:My point was that all the inputs I listed are on the throttle - the stick is a reasonably accurate repro of an F16 or A10 stick with the major difference being a single stage on the trigger. Unity's notoriously futzy about joysticks, though, so it may not be painless.
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Mar 18, 2015 22:02
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Lots of work this week. Interdiction changes, camera transition polish, fleet roster updates. Now there's the idea of fleet flagships, and separate groups like interdictors have their own AI and will move ahead of the leader, sort of like secret service. Fleet AI also knows when to fall back to outposts, depending on how each fleet template is set up. It makes your own interdictors way more useful. http://gfycat.com/BrilliantWarmCusimanse http://gfycat.com/FlimsyFrayedHorsechestnutleafminer I pause the game now when transitioning into the cockpit. Stops VR barf-mode when the target fighter is rolling to evade during the transition.
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Mar 21, 2015 19:47
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Kairo posted:Lots of work this week. Interdiction changes, camera transition polish, fleet roster updates. Now there's the idea of fleet flagships, and separate groups like interdictors have their own AI and will move ahead of the leader, sort of like secret service. Fleet AI also knows when to fall back to outposts, depending on how each fleet template is set up. It makes your own interdictors way more useful. Does the fleet retreat as a whole (of whatever is left) or do they do it piecemeal? Or is that dependent on the fleet.
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Mar 21, 2015 19:51
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Stormgale posted:Does the fleet retreat as a whole (of whatever is left) or do they do it piecemeal? Or is that dependent on the fleet. It depends on the flagship, as each has its own thresholds for how much damage they'll sustain. Some flagships are total cowards, so they'll run from you no matter what (coward trait). Many get jittery if you start taking out their escorts. Others give no fucks. EDIT: Each type of subfleet moves independently -- escorts/interdictors/leader. Escorts won't leave until the leader gets out safely, and then they'll follow them into warp. Interdictors will always fight if they can. Kairo fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Mar 21, 2015 |
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Mar 21, 2015 19:57
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Kairo posted:I pause the game now when transitioning into the cockpit. Stops VR barf-mode when the target fighter is rolling to evade during the transition. Void Destroyer does a Slow-Mo (on a curve) when switching from strategy mode to cockpit (and switching between ships) and that works pretty well too. Might be less stop and go. Of course it's got a Bullet Time toggle too so the game already had code for slowing down time.
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Mar 21, 2015 20:59
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Kairo posted:Others give no fucks.  trait.
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Mar 21, 2015 21:03
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Kairo posted:It depends on the flagship, as each has its own thresholds for how much damage they'll sustain. Some flagships are total cowards, so they'll run from you no matter what (coward trait). Many get jittery if you start taking out their escorts. Others give no fucks. So basically by learning the position of the bases in a sector and positioning a main fleet with interdiction i can make a flagship flee by hammering it's flee condition and trap it's fleet piece by piece and crush it?
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Mar 21, 2015 21:13
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DatonKallandor posted:Void Destroyer does a Slow-Mo (on a curve) when switching from strategy mode to cockpit (and switching between ships) and that works pretty well too. Might be less stop and go. Of course it's got a Bullet Time toggle too so the game already had code for slowing down time. That's a good idea. I will look at that if this feels bad. I lerp the timescale when you lose a fighter and are inside it, so I can probably use that code. ^^^ EDIT: If I understand you correctly, I think so. I am working on all this higher-level movement at the moment -- it's a pretty cool problem. The elite fleets that roam around will retreat to the homeworld, dragging you through higher and higher security systems if you keep chasing. There are still bugs with the stealth-lite stuff though, but that's getting there. I've also managed to time my jumps into a landmark as a fleet was leaving, so the interdictors were already gone and I could more easily handle whoever was left. It was pretty hard to time though. Kairo fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Mar 21, 2015 |
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Mar 21, 2015 21:14
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Kairo posted:^^^ EDIT: Basically the idea I was trying to convey assumes the player can know the following facts (either cause the game tells them or there are trends they can intuit) A) Where A fleet is likely to Jump to B) What will cause the flagship/fleet to trigger a retreat (let's say if the Flagship reaches 50% health) Then I as a player: 1) Take the majority of my forces and position them to interdict 2) Move in a small group to exploit this weakness (in this case let's say a flight of heavy bombers to do maximum damage) 3) Rush in and alpha strike the flagship to trigger the retreat, fleet starts warping out and my forces interdict and kill them as they are caught. You can replace the specific trigger state but the ideas is leveraging my forces the best way I can to force an ambush ambush (instead of simply waiting for timing I force/goad the enemy to move a certain way that creates the ambush).
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Mar 21, 2015 21:54
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Interdict behaves more like EVE's warp scramblers than something like Elite. There's also no concept of allied ships outside of the loaded area for technical reasons (mostly because I don't want to terribly LOD-simulate combat). You can force retreats by alpha striking the leader, but waiting somewhere else for them with another group is not possible.
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Mar 22, 2015 20:04
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So all ships are ghosts that only exist inside your own reality bubble? I've played stuff like Escape Velocity that has that going on, but I do appreciate when ships have some kind of presence. Even if it were only a probabilistic thing within an area or along a route, that would be kind of nice.
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Mar 22, 2015 20:26
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I don't think that's what he's saying. My understanding is that ships exist at other locations within the system, even in other systems, and that they can make decisions like 'let's respond to that distress call' or 'let's flee to that more heavily guarded system'. They can fly trade routes or patrols, chase after your fleet, so on. They have persistent traits like 'this is a group of 3 fighters and 1 corvette with an interdiction system'. But they aren't simulated with the full physics necessary for combat, because that'd be insane.
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Mar 22, 2015 20:37
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General Battuta posted:But they aren't simulated with the full physics necessary for combat, because that'd be insane. Well it'd make it Homeworld. Simulating lots of spaceships fighting in space is not exactly unheard of.
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Mar 22, 2015 21:17
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Homeworld is great but it keeps everything bound up in a nice contiguous space.
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Mar 22, 2015 21:26
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Hegemonia then. Or SoaSE, Conquest, Void Destroyer, etc.
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Mar 22, 2015 21:54
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I see your point but I don't think Starfighter's design is particularly in need of real time simulated battles where the player's not present.
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Mar 22, 2015 23:50
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I'm picturing some sort of race to berlin scenario, or jumping into a system in the middle of a civil war. Better to keep things lean and mean though, imo
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Mar 23, 2015 00:09
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This looks insanely cool/promising is there any sort of early access going on right now?
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Mar 23, 2015 08:11
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RentACop posted:I'm picturing some sort of race to berlin scenario, or jumping into a system in the middle of a civil war. Better to keep things lean and mean though, imo Sounds like great expansion fodder once Kairo gets the game to RC stage
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Mar 23, 2015 08:48
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cl_gibcount 9999 posted:This looks insanely cool/promising No, it'll be released when it's done if I remember correctly
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Mar 23, 2015 15:05
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mad.radhu posted:No, it'll be released when it's done if I remember correctly Speaking of which, you still owe us a gameplay video for us to freak out about, Kairo....
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Mar 24, 2015 00:16
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Not that we are owed anything in particular, but yes, even a three minute cutting room floor video would be nice at this point!
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Mar 27, 2015 00:48
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doctorfrog posted:Not that we are owed anything in particular, but yes, even a three minute cutting room floor video would be nice at this point! For the record I'm throwing around the "Kairo owes us a video" totally facetiously. While I would love a video, sure, I'm happy he's doing this the right way. I am fairly confident the finished product will be very high quality.
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Mar 29, 2015 01:16
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I think your intent was pretty clear, hope my reply didn't come across as taking it literally. Oh hell I just want this video game. If someone could make a video of all the gifs strung together haphazardly and do all the sound effects with their mouths (pew pew! zoooooooommmmm, booooom!!!!), that'd be pretty peachy.
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Mar 29, 2015 02:37
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Fine since you're all pussyfooting around the Bush like reasonable people: Kairo give us a legit new trailer ffs
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Mar 29, 2015 05:17
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Fart Car '97 posted:Fine since you're all pussyfooting around the Bush like reasonable people:
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Mar 29, 2015 05:21
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Maybe he's waiting on some material from the new composer he hired.
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Mar 29, 2015 08:22
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I clicked on that, half-expecting Bear McCreary.
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Mar 29, 2015 18:32
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doctorfrog posted:I clicked on that, half-expecting Bear McCreary. http://www.olivierzuccaro.com/#/discography/diaspora-ost Edit: Olivier is a composer who really gets this style and he's a huge space sim fan (clearly, having worked on BtRL and Diaspora). Starfighter's OST is spartan except for the drums, and doesn't veer into BSG territory since it has it's own signature textures/instruments. It's much more sinister. Kairo fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Mar 29, 2015 |
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Mar 29, 2015 19:27
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He should hire me as a proofreader for his website.
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Mar 30, 2015 15:40
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TychoCelchuuu posted:He should hire me as a proofreader for his website. E.Y.E. had a really good soundtrack
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Mar 30, 2015 22:39
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Hey guys, you have been awesome and super patient so later today I'll stream a small debug/playtest session of the latest build. Thanks for hanging in there. It'll probably be around 2:00pm PST but I'll post here before I fire it up. Just giving you a heads up now. I'm debating setting up my mic so you can hear this crazy person explain stuff as it's happening but oh god. 
Kairo fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Apr 3, 2015 |
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Apr 3, 2015 18:08
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