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Capsaicin posted:Yeah i hope cirie's son plays on the show soon. He's shown more personality than Aubry, Sierra, or Troyzan this season already. If you think Aubry, Sierra, or Troyzan lack personality this season than I don't know that you're really paying attention. Aubry and Troyzan definitely are losing screentime due to not being the most important strategists but all three have still been getting their moments of personality.
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May 12, 2017 04:52
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Sadly Troyzan's personality makes him feel like a low-rent Terry Richardson
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May 12, 2017 06:29
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i think sarah wins this game if i'm going to play 'edit reader' which i don't fully subscribe to. at least i personally think she's probably playing the best overall game at this point. i think she learned some good lessons after her blunder in cagayan and i admire people who can rein themselves in and learn from their mistakes.
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May 12, 2017 06:43
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Yeah I'm sure Troyzan's a very nice guy but from a game standpoint it's frustrating that he's basically a Koah Rong Joe who has some power but refuses to use it. It's extra disappointing because the devs and Probst have been trying to hype him to come back for years - he was in the Second Chances ballot and didn't make it, so they just wheeled him back in for this, and... it's just blah. I think Hali has shown more actual gameplay than he has been.
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May 12, 2017 07:25
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What impresses me about Sarah's game is that for the last four votes now she's been voting off close allies and yet nobody has been mad at her. It reminds me of Tony's game in Cagayan except she's doing it with a lot more subtlety.
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May 12, 2017 07:28
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Rewatch that final tribal. I included the best clip I could find in the OP, but that was a ridiculously bitter jury. Sarah's game is miles above Tony's in that regard.
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May 12, 2017 09:59
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Rarity posted:What impresses me about Sarah's game is that for the last four votes now she's been voting off close allies and yet nobody has been mad at her. It reminds me of Tony's game in Cagayan except she's doing it with a lot more subtlety.
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May 12, 2017 10:47
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ApplesandOranges posted:I think Hali has shown more actual gameplay than he has been. Let's not go crazy here. Troyzan won an immunity and found an idol, did Hali do anything at all?
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May 12, 2017 16:45
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Binary Logic posted:Sarah's problem is going to be when people at Ponderosa start comparing notes. Ie, the next one voted out is going to inform Sierra that Sarah wrote down her name. Sierra might consider that a good, strategic 'gamechanger' move - or she could feel betrayed. http://www.tv.com/news/survivor-sierra-regrets-giving-her-advantage-to-sarah-14945259920009980/
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May 12, 2017 17:02
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Even from that I have no idea how Sierra will feel about it in Jury. She says she felt played when she found out but she also says Sarah did a great job and seems to respect the play. Its going to come down to when Sierra made that turn and a lot of that is Sarah's social game and final jury performance. Assuming she can get to the end, because its still a long way away.
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May 12, 2017 17:08
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I'm definitely not a Troyzan fan, but you guys are being way too hard on him for not using the idol. He had no way to know the votes were going on Sierra this round, since the people that were telling his side that Cirie's group were putting votes on Sierra (Michaela, Tai, and Sarah) were ALSO telling his side they were voting with him. The only way he would know to play the idol on Sierra is if he knew they were lying about one thing and not the other. And if he had tried to use the idol last round he would have wasted it since his side had absolutely no idea that Zeke was getting votes. You could maybe argue that he should have been leveraging the idol without actually playing it, but what specific scenario are you thinking of? If he takes it out at the Final 10 Tribal last week, no one in the majority besides Zeke would have cared because they were blindsiding their own anyway. And if he did that this round he risks scaring away the votes of Sarah, Michaela, and Tai who he thought he already had. I think Troyzan correctly sees that he is the least threatening member of his alliance at the moment, so he can afford to be a bit selfish with the idol and sit on it for a few more rounds and hope the majority breaks apart on its own. He could probably be doing more to stir up trouble and/or make connections with the other side, but I'm not too bothered by his conservative playing with the idol. I think if you want to blame someone for not using their idols properly, it's probably Tai. Unlike Troyzan, he DID know that Sierra was getting voted out for sure and could have stopped it. Then next week he's in, at worst, a 4-4 situation where he only has to flip back either Michaela or Sarah to regain the majority. Are Michaela and Sarah really going to rocks at Final 8 to protect Andrea? And if Tai is worried the votes might then turn on *him* at Final 8, he can just play the second idol. I get that, from Tai's perspective, it's hard to go back to Brad Troyzan and Sierra after they voted for him, but I don't think he's necessarily in a better situation with the majority.
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May 12, 2017 17:45
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I don't think we were being especially harsh on Troyzan, but since you made the comparison... As hugely critical as I am of Tai he's in a much better position than Troyzan from what we can see by virtue of his relationship with Michaela and the Cirie has talked about pull him over. Not to mention he just got betrayed by his entire alliance as Brad, Sierra, and Troyzan all voted for him and even they said they didn't think they had him anymore. So him using his idols to save them just doesn't seem as useful when he's in a better position to survive past them and has two idols to get him further. Criticism of Troyzan comes down to the fact that one idol can only do so much for you when you're in as a weak a position as he seems to be. This is the sort of situation where you have to consider using the idol proactively to try and do more than just buy you 1 week, because 1 week when you're in a minority of 2 at F8 is THAT useful. Plus I for one can't ignore that Troyzan is from One World which suffered from everyone stupidly playing selfishly to but themselves 1 week when they very clearly had to work together to overthrow the power or else they'd all lose (as they did). And from what I remember the only reason Troyzan is even remembered is because he was the one player KIND of playing against Kim and recognizing the need to do something big, so when you consider that he MIGHT have had an opportunity to make a big move that could have turned the game over its a little frustrating to see no sign that he considered it. And yes, he might have been blindsided but that's part of the game and knowing you can't trust Michaela just because she's upset about stupid stuff us part of the game. In the end we don't really know enough to drat Troyzan for it, which is why I don't think the criticism has been too harsh. It would be harsher if he had clearly considered it or clearly knew they were hosed. But regardless of whether he considered it or not, or should have seen it or not, it ends up being a missed opportunity to be a "game changer." Lone Goat posted:Let's not go crazy here. Troyzan won an immunity and found an idol, did Hali do anything at all? Eh. I could see an argument that Troyzan has played a better game by getting himself in a better position at some point than Hali has ever been in, but I could also argue that while Troyzan missed an opportunity to use what he had to turn the game around Hali was pretty aggressive when she was on the bottom about trying to flip poo poo around even though she had nothing to work with. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 18:03 on May 12, 2017 |
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May 12, 2017 17:57
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I'm giving Hali more props because she was stuck in a crummy position pretty much her whole game but never really stopped fighting. Fighting against Caleb, pushing to get Brad voted out, offering a pat-down to prove that she didn't have an idol. Whereas Troyzan... found an idol (great!) but then just sat back and got lucky that both Sarah and Brad talked to him. I think she should have done more outside of TC (which is the only real time we saw her arguing), but I think she's done more than Troyzan. And while I think Tai is in a better position to use the idol, he knew the vote going in. He weighed the pros and cons of Andrea versus Sierra with Michaela, and they both decided to vote for Sierra. That's different, since he's now in a swing alliance with Michaela. Troyzan has been shackled to Brad ever since the second swap and has shown no sign of budging.
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May 13, 2017 00:09
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Uh, I got weepy during Cirie's bad challenge scene two weeks ago, but I'm kind of a weepy baby anyway. I just like Cirie a lot and it sucked to see her like that. I hope Sarah doesn't win. I just don't care for her I guess. Strategically she's fine, but I think she can be hella condescending in her confessionals and I'm not about it.
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May 13, 2017 00:58
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DaisyDanger posted:Uh, I got weepy during Cirie's bad challenge scene two weeks ago, but I'm kind of a weepy baby anyway. I just like Cirie a lot and it sucked to see her like that. Based on  EDITING I don't see the winner being anybody outside Sarah/Cirie/Andrea and it feels like Sarah's being telegraphed so heavily that I'm hoping it's a red herring and we get a beautiful Cirie victory. They showed a lot of her interactions with her son at camp and I can't remember anything with Sarah's husband after the challenge, so I hope that bodes well. I dunno if I can deal with the end of her arc being yet another "her kids are going to be so proud of her pre-FTC exit" story. She's too good for that.
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May 13, 2017 01:51
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I could see Brad winning.
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May 13, 2017 07:35
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Zesty posted:I could see Brad winning. me too considering how strong his first few episodes were.
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May 13, 2017 09:58
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gif Probst posted:me too considering how strong his first few episodes were. I can see that being because Jeff felt that Brad got done in by the edit last go around, and wanted to make viewers like him more. Doesn't have to have anything to do with how far he goes.
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May 13, 2017 14:47
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That said, I hope that crappy edit of Candice being a spoiled, petulant child is the last we ever have to see of her. Today on why do I remember this: In the CI/Fiji era, the Survivor website had a dumb minigame where the contestants told two lies and a truth. Candice's truth was that her parents bought her a Cadillac Escalade when she aced the SAT.
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May 13, 2017 17:35
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A weird part of me wants to see them do Heroes vs Villains 2 and bring back Candice as a Hero again just for the "WTF?" of it. I don't even really think Brad got that as much of a "bad edit" as he just played a bad game, but Candice has always sucked and Survivor's desire to push her as a favorite has always been weird.
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May 13, 2017 18:35
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Some insider type on Reddit had a great breakdown of why the Game Changers cast was so puzzling, and part of it comes down to CBS taking charge of casting much like they do with Big Brother. They weren't happy with how Kaoh Rong went so apparently they seized about half of the casting slots and shoveled in people like Ozzy and Caleb, and also nixed people like Danni Boatright, leaving production to fill in archetypes like young hot girl with strategy brains (Hali). It's essentially the same criticism as we had with Candice getting on HvV and BvW, and Amanda Kimmel getting cast like 15 times. CBS has decided that they're who people want to see, and regarding casuals, they probably have the data to back it up. but just lol if we see Candice again
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May 13, 2017 18:52
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Zesty posted:I could see Brad winning. This is what I'm hoping for. Or Cirie would be good, too.
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May 13, 2017 19:06
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See I'll defend Amanda to the death because if someone gets to the final tribal 2 seasons in a row as a legitimate player who just freezes up in the Final Tribal and can't stand a chance against two of the best winners of all time then I want to bring that person back for a 3rd time to see if she can pull it out this time. gently caress, I'd be all for a 4th Amanda appearance to see if she can pull it off since she basically got taken down by Russell in her third go. She's got a hell of a resume for a 3-time loser. The same with Ozzy. For all his flaws Ozzy made the finals in his first season and narrowly lost a Final Vote to one of the best winners of all time, fell victim to one of the greatest alliances in Survivor history in his second season, and somehow managed to pull off a completely crazy play in his third season and came 1 Tribal away from probably winning the season. I'm all for bringing back players who genuinely came close to winning to see if they can do it again. The one except I might make is Russell since he made the exact same mistakes his first 2 times and they didn't give him (or us) enough time before his 3rd to see if he could learn from it. And he can't, because then he wouldn't be Russell. But Candice is just this player who has never come even close to playing well and always manages to do something really childishly villainous and yet Survivor producers kept trying to push her as a favorite because she's a pretty blonde. Which, despite whatever general issues Survivor producers have, was really painfully egregious. For what its worth I don't find the cast puzzling. Its just the usual mix of production favorites, fan favorites, and random people to balance the seasons/genders. Survivor fans need to stop taking the season titles so seriously and recognize what we all know, that they just make them up after casting. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 19:08 on May 13, 2017 |
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May 13, 2017 19:06
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Ozzy has played the exact same game every time and the only reason he got as far as he did in South Pacific is because he got voted out three times. Like maybe I'd be interested in seeing him on American Gladiators or something but Survivor is not a game he is good at.
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May 13, 2017 19:22
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Sierra, Hali, and Brad are complete  , as is Varner if a bit less since he was on Cambodia for like four episodes (still pretty ). Sarah is kind of but everybody knows she was cast because Tony, so whatever. Ozzy, Cirie, Andrea and JT make casting sense enough but going in there's not much compelling about needing to see any of them play again. That's borne out, hasn't it? They're all just playing them, love it or hate it, and it's predictable. I give Troyzan more credit than most people, and if you include him here that's fully half the cast that's eyebrow-raising at best.
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May 13, 2017 19:24
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Ozzy is in the weird position of being remarkably good at half of Survivor and remarkably bad at the other half. I wasn't clamoring to give him a 4th try or anything but people tend to remember his failures and the stuff they don't like him more than they do the fact that he actually has a pretty impressive Survivor resume so I wasn't exactly "puzzled" that he got brought back for a 4th time. Like, yeah, he got voted out 3 times in South Pacific but one of those was a crazy voluntary move that actually worked and in the end for better or worse Redemption Island was part of the game he played so blaming it for him is like blaming tribe swaps and idols for other players' successes. But again, I wasn't dying for a 4th Ozzy run. I just don't think he's lacking in qualification as a "game changer" if we're being honest. Propaganda Machine posted:Sierra, Hali, and Brad are complete Yeah, but what returnee season doesn't have a bunch of people brought back because it balances gender lines or season connections or because they're production favorites? The Game Changers cast is only "WTF" if you (a) take that title more seriously than you should or (b) haven't noticed the same pattern of castings in past returnee seasons. I feel like you can't really call them "eyebrow raising" when you also easily come up with justifications for half the names you give. I'm not saying it was a great cast of the absolute best options. But I can plainly see why all but a couple of them were cast. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 19:34 on May 13, 2017 |
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May 13, 2017 19:28
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What I find weird is Jeff/ producers being unhappy about the KR winner despite having full control on how it should be edited and then putting characters that are far more dull on a returnee season  how they didn't expect the big players to be voted out first I don't know
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May 13, 2017 19:45
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I think they tried to make the game really fluid with three tribes, multiple tribe swaps, and a crap load of super powers floating around for the big players to have a shot at grabbing onto to save themselves. It just so happened the powers all ended up in the hands of Sierra, Sarah, Debbie, Troyzan, and Tai. Whoops. I also think they hoped all those powers and "game changers" rhetoric would inspire people to shake stuff up but for the most part the players seem to be keeping things cool and playing more deliberately than Survivor would like. Still, I've REALLY enjoyed this season so far. Edit: I don't think there's much the Survivor editors could do about Kaoh Rong. Michelle won because she was well liked. You can't really show that beyond her getting along with people. If they had given her a really over the top edit where she was praised then people would call it obvious and forced. And it probably would have been unless they had a pile of confessionals where people were spontaneously declaring their love for Michelle. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 19:54 on May 13, 2017 |
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May 13, 2017 19:51
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Thinking back to the start, maybe productions biggest mistake was the tribe divisions. Mana having the biggest characters but being weaker physically started the ball rolling for going for the threats.
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May 13, 2017 20:05
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This cast is really weird because it puts giants like Sandra, Cirie, Tony, Ozzy, and Malcolm in the same game as total nobodies like Brad, Hali, Sierra, and Caleb.STAC Goat posted:See I'll defend Amanda to the death because if someone gets to the final tribal 2 seasons in a row as a legitimate player who just freezes up in the Final Tribal and can't stand a chance against two of the best winners of all time then I want to bring that person back for a 3rd time to see if she can pull it out this time. gently caress, I'd be all for a 4th Amanda appearance to see if she can pull it off since she basically got taken down by Russell in her third go. She's got a hell of a resume for a 3-time loser. STAC Goat posted:Edit: I don't think there's much the Survivor editors could do about Kaoh Rong. Michelle won because she was well liked. You can't really show that beyond her getting along with people. If they had given her a really over the top edit where she was praised then people would call it obvious and forced. And it probably would have been unless they had a pile of confessionals where people were spontaneously declaring their love for Michelle. Fast Luck fucked around with this message at 20:42 on May 13, 2017 |
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May 13, 2017 20:33
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Yeah, I was stretching with the third one. I mean, she was done in by the general Heroes tribe mistakes so its not exactly on her, but I was just pointing out that even in her bad season she's basically losing to some of the most infamously crafty villains in Survivor history. Even if she's more taken down by being part of one of the most infamously dumb tribes in Survivor history.Fast Luck posted:I still prefer to say that she won because Debbie, Scot, and Jason resented Aubry for the moves she made. How much that's Aubry's fault for not managing them right, and how much is because they're sore losers, is up for debate. I mean, my basic philosophy is that's an academic debate. In the end you play with whatever twists and tribes and juries you get. Maybe Aubry mismanaged the jury, maybe she got unlucky. But them's the breaks and Michelle won under the same conditions. So for better or worse, she played the better Survivor: Kaoh Rong game, even if it wasn't the better Survivor game. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 20:44 on May 13, 2017 |
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May 13, 2017 20:39
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Actually I just checked the wiki and more specifically, like the direct cause of her vote out, was Candice's stupidass flip over to Russell for one vote before going out herself.
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May 13, 2017 20:41
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Propaganda Machine posted:Some insider type on Reddit had a great breakdown of why the Game Changers cast was so puzzling, and part of it comes down to CBS taking charge of casting much like they do with Big Brother. They weren't happy with how Kaoh Rong went so apparently they seized about half of the casting slots and shoveled in people like Ozzy and Caleb, and also nixed people like Danni Boatright, leaving production to fill in archetypes like young hot girl with strategy brains (Hali). Do you have a link to the post on Reddit? Can't find it on the survivor subreddit edit: Also, the reason why Candice, Amanda, and Andrea are all 3-timers is obvious, and it's not because they are popular with casuals. edit2: I will defend Candice's casting by saying that she has been good entertainment each time that she has been on. She always ends up in a blood feud with somebody over some stupid poo poo and it's good TV. JesusSinfulHands fucked around with this message at 21:27 on May 13, 2017 |
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May 13, 2017 21:19
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Fast Luck posted:This cast is really weird because it puts giants like Sandra, Cirie, Tony, Ozzy, and Malcolm in the same game as total nobodies like Brad, Hali, Sierra, and Caleb. Yeah that's the biggest problem with this cast. All-returnee seasons *do* always have weird lesser-name casting choices, but there has never been such a large gap between a bunch of big name legends AND a bunch of weirdo no-names in the same season. 20 definitely had a few weird choices like Candice and Danielle, but pretty much everyone else was a legend. The cast this season was like a 33/33/33 split of legends, medium-sized stars, and weirdo WTF choices, and there was no way most of the legends would be able to stick around for very long as a result. All-returnee seasons need to have returnees of roughly the same star power: either almost all legends like 20, or the more uniformly medium star quality of 31; the star power was a lot more imbalanced in 8 and 34 and I don't think it's a coincidence that they're probably the 2 weaker of the 4 all-returnee seasons. ETA: I also think it helped 31 that the theme helped shield the few bigger names like Spencer and Kass and Stephen, where people were less worried about them because the theme emphasized how they had never won or returned before. Whereas this theme in 34 is sort of the opposite because it really put a spotlight on the legends and made everyone want to go big-game hunting from Day 1. mancalamania fucked around with this message at 23:22 on May 13, 2017 |
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May 13, 2017 23:19
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I had forgotten that Tai's husband's name is Mark and so when Jeff said "Mark come on out!" for a single split second I said "Mark the Chicken?!?!?!" and legit expected a chicken to come running out of the jungle. Then when Mark the Human came out I was like "oh".
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May 13, 2017 23:53
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It's like The Frog Prince, but with a chicken
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May 13, 2017 23:59
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So like, am I in the minority in really enjoying this season? I thought it was being well liked in here but now a bunch of people are saying its flawed because of all the "nobodies" left and "stars" gone? Or is this just an academic argument?
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May 14, 2017 00:03
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Factor Mystic posted:I had forgotten that Tai's husband's name is Mark and so when Jeff said "Mark come on out!" for a single split second I said "Mark the Chicken?!?!?!" and legit expected a chicken to come running out of the jungle. Then when Mark the Human came out I was like "oh". You weren't the only one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wNWK1hHUsg
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May 14, 2017 00:12
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Its probably unfair to say it in the Loved Ones episode but those were some EXTREME emotional reactions from the players yet again. I don't know what they're doing to this cast but they're all severely emotionally wrecked.
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May 14, 2017 00:18
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STAC Goat posted:So like, am I in the minority in really enjoying this season? I thought it was being well liked in here but now a bunch of people are saying its flawed because of all the "nobodies" left and "stars" gone? Or is this just an academic argument? I think this season is fine. Let's see how it goes.
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May 14, 2017 00:28
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