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Digirat posted:Check that poster's history in the thread. It's now nothing but condescending and passive-aggressive shots like that which don't actually acknowledge the point anyone else is making. Actually he's making good points and everyone is turning it into a slapfight because they want their cake and their biotic punch too. Do mooks take a while to kill? Yes. This is Working As Intended. Instead of spawning lots of mooks that are just speed bumps (Husks, Cannibals, everything that didn't have Shields or Armor in ME3MP) they have clearly decided to make mooks both more dangerous and more durable. At the same time, they have drastically lowered the number of annoying superbosses that took forever to kill. I'm sure we all remember playing against Reapers and literally constantly hearing the Banshee Scream. And how many clips did it take to kill a Banshee? I don't know, because for as long as I played ME3MP, I can't recall ever killing a Banshee by myself in less than literal minutes (maybe snipers could do it fast, but Banshees were also the hardest things to hit as a sniper). Now, the game spawns an Anointed or Destroyer, sometimes two. Both are slow and can be completely avoided until the end of the round. Banshees could not. All this is to say, if you want to kill things fast, play Bronze. If you want to get money fast, play Gold. If you want to kill guys really fast and also get money really fast... play ME3.
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Apr 10, 2017 20:27
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precision posted:All this is to say, if you want to kill things fast, play Bronze. If you want to get money fast, play Gold. If you want to kill guys really fast and also get money really fast... play ME3. Or play MEA with 4 people abusing biotic melee and sniper rifles. We cleared a gold revenant last week in like 13 minutes with 4 goons all species for melee and sniper rifles. It's not that it can't be done, it's that there are only two viable options to get there. Powers are fun, explosions are fun, but they just aren't useful right now. The balance is a hot loving mess, several guns were and are (poor Hornet) flat out broken. There is no master plan in place right now, so defending anything as intentional is pretty silly. The MP producer flat out said the patch wasn't a balance patch, it was primarily bug fixes and they're looking at balance next. The only real balance change was making melee interruptable to prevent 4 vanguards from punching a hydra to death in 8 seconds. Digirat and myself and a few other people are coming across as really harsh, but it comes from a desire for it to be better. We are playing this on every difficulty and trying different builds and comparing guns in Discord every night. We want this to be good and to have every class be solid in gold. ME3 made a sweet volus vanguard that worked well (esp. with a gauntlet), we just want the same here. And are a little annoyed they're so far away from that ideal.
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Apr 10, 2017 21:09
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I never played ME3mp but the way the soft cover works in MEAmp is easily my least favorite part. Taking two, three tries to jump up to a ledge, trying to jump and boost over a cover piece and getting hung up, getting hung up on corners, it's just so drat frustrating. But I also really like getting to make things explode and the guns are satisfying to use even if they're generally weak and ineffectual. It's still fun but it could be way MORE fun.
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Apr 10, 2017 21:12
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Relentless posted:Or play MEA with 4 people abusing biotic melee and sniper rifles. Pretty much this. I'm really unhappy with the game because I had such high expectations coming off how good 3 was. Even in the base 3 you had usable different styles from the word go.
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Apr 10, 2017 21:23
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I know y'all just want things to be better, though it often clashes with my experience. Clearing Gold in 13 minutes is pretty impressive, but when you consider that I've never had a Gold clear take longer than 21 minutes (with awful pubbies) it makes me think PC and PS4 have very different playerbases. Having played ME3MP on PC, playing MEAMP on PS4 is orders of magnitude more difficult. As I mentioned before, it takes forever to turn around, and aiming without a mouse is "challenging". But then I read this thread and see people saying "Don't play Gold until you're level 15 with good gear" and they're PC players and I scratch my head. Sure, Gold with level 6 pubbies might take 22 minutes, but so would Silver with the same group and you get 2.5x the credits. I've only actually failed a Gold match like... 5 times? Out of probably 50 Gold matches?
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Apr 10, 2017 21:26
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I'm playing on xbone for what that's worth. I'm bad at sniping so I prefer not to. A power heavy playstyle suits me a lot better. I need to go and actually test it but I am pretty sure the autoaim is far less than 3 which really hurts on a console for the reasons you have mentioned.
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Apr 10, 2017 21:30
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I think the auto-aim is also getting hurt by the lag issues. Sometimes I'll go to aim and my crosshair will snap right to a Saboteur's head, sometimes I'll go to aim and there doesn't appear to be any aim assist at all.
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Apr 10, 2017 21:36
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precision posted:Actually he's making good points and everyone is turning it into a slapfight because they want their cake and their biotic punch too. What points? Their posts in this thread have become just about nothing but condescending and contentless "actually you are wrong" shots without a loving bit of explanation. Their standpoint aligns with yours which is probably why you think it's good, but they haven't so much as made one goddamn attempt at a convincing argument, whereas you and zakmonster have actually had something to say. I don't agree with what you're saying, but it's not white noise. quote:Do mooks take a while to kill? Yes. This is Working As Intended. Instead of spawning lots of mooks that are just speed bumps (Husks, Cannibals, everything that didn't have Shields or Armor in ME3MP) they have clearly decided to make mooks both more dangerous and more durable. My standpoint has always been and still is that this is a bad way to design an action game. Fast feedback and a sense of powerful impact on the world around you makes action games satisfying. Having to pour literally 30 bullets into the most basic enemy in the game to kill it feels weak and impactless, and it looks really loving silly too. Obviously this is subjective but I think a low TTK on basic enemies is one of the most important things to nail in an action game, and mass effect just doesn't do this outside of singleplayer on the lower difficulties. This part has nothing to do with challenge or balance even, it's about the feel of the game, and if an action game doesn't feel good in any way, there is no point in playing it whatsoever. IMO, right now the game is carried by the fact that the sniper rifles feel really good to shoot, because almost no other guns are worth using on the difficulty you are heavily incentivized to play. I am only still at it because I've been unlocking new sniper rifles, which are all that kills at a satisfying rate. Relentless is right that we wouldn't be harping on this stuff so much if we didn't want the game to be better. I don't want to be too down on andromeda but it really sucks when something has this much potential and wastes it. I'm also salty about the number of ways they either didn't improve on ME3 or flat out took steps backward, when that was already a badly flawed game. This is why I'm so vocal about it.
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Apr 10, 2017 22:23
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Relentless posted:The only real balance change was making melee interruptable to prevent 4 vanguards from punching a hydra to death in 8 seconds.
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Apr 10, 2017 22:40
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g0del posted:I just hope they don't nerf melee again with the next patch, because if this was their goal they failed. I'm still soloing hydras with a vanguard, you just need to be more careful about when to use nova or quickly dodge backwards. I actually like the melee balance right now - it does a lot of damage against mooks but charging into a large group is risky enough to make it exhilarating.
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Apr 10, 2017 23:08
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So I know shotguns are bad and smartchoke is busted, but is there a known issue with shotgun pellets going outside the ADS reticle? I was firing a Disciple V last night at the walls at different ranges. One pellet almost always was outside the reticle and it wasn't uncommon for two or three more to impact outside it. Or is this just something weird because I was shooting at a wall?
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Apr 10, 2017 23:24
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precision posted:I know y'all just want things to be better, though it often clashes with my experience. Clearing Gold in 13 minutes is pretty impressive, but when you consider that I've never had a Gold clear take longer than 21 minutes (with awful pubbies) it makes me think PC and PS4 have very different playerbases. Having played ME3MP on PC, playing MEAMP on PS4 is orders of magnitude more difficult. As I mentioned before, it takes forever to turn around, and aiming without a mouse is "challenging". The weird thing is the faster games are like ten minutes, the slower are about twenty, but ME3 multi with ten waves usually lasted me 25. There's fewer enemies but it's just slower to go through them I guess.
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Apr 10, 2017 23:38
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I have a theory that shotguns are simply not shooting enough pellets per shot.
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Apr 10, 2017 23:54
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Bootcha posted:I have a theory that shotguns are simply not shooting enough pellets per shot. That would make a lot of sense, I've been having trouble making them do the listed damage per shot, and kind of wrote off testing them since they're all so bad anyway. Once I get home I'll see if I can prove it. I also just had an interesting thought to fix Revenant. Swap assemblers and Observers. More, lower damage observers plus tougher assemblers that use cover and spit out breachers. Part of their problem is that observers are the real threat... but the most easily neutralized by a sniper. Also give the destroyer a self destruct sync kill that only activates when the turrets are destroyed, make it a tactical choice to power through it or take out the second turret.
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Apr 11, 2017 00:38
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Yeah see observers strike me as an enemy that should be annoying alone and dangerous en masse. Not dangerous alone and a murder fest in groups.
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Apr 11, 2017 00:40
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As someone who only uses shotguns in everything, the lack of functional Smart Choke is my biggest gripe in the game at present. I miss pretending my hyper accurate Claymore was a Crusader on the Soldier classes. Do passives that affect Accuracy affect shotgun spread? Did it in ME3MP and do we know if it does now? Thinking about trying out a Human Sentinel specced for weapon accuracy for kicks, but I can't work up the courage to get rid of 5 second throws.
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Apr 11, 2017 00:46
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Just got it this week, former MA3MP player. On PC Origin: elf6c still messing about in bronze but like playing as a team
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Apr 11, 2017 00:58
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Is sticky grenade bugged? Taking the damage upgrades doesn't actually change the value on the power screen. Also it doesn't seem like it should take 6 of them from cloak to kill a berserker.
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Apr 11, 2017 01:02
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precision posted:Is sticky grenade bugged? Taking the damage upgrades doesn't actually change the value on the power screen. Also it doesn't seem like it should take 6 of them from cloak to kill a berserker. WORKING AS INTENDED
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Apr 11, 2017 01:04
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precision posted:Is sticky grenade bugged? Taking the damage upgrades doesn't actually change the value on the power screen. Also it doesn't seem like it should take 6 of them from cloak to kill a berserker. Does it benefit from the cloak damage bonus? Cause it doesn't break my cloak, and therefore I assume it doesn't
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Apr 11, 2017 01:15
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highmodulus posted:Just got it this week, former MA3MP player. On PC Origin: elf6c still messing about in bronze but like playing as a team Get in discord and say hi! https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3814279 precision posted:Is sticky grenade bugged? Taking the damage upgrades doesn't actually change the value on the power screen. Also it doesn't seem like it should take 6 of them from cloak to kill a berserker. The damage never updates on the screen, but does list the % damage modifiers below. And Berserkers just have a fuckload of hp. A level 3 grenade does 1485 damage, which is a little better than a non crit shot from any of the high end sniper rifles. And grenades can't crit, so that lines up. At least pre-patch, bronze raiders had 800ish hp, silver had 1600, and gold 2400. Berserkers have 6-8x the hp of a raider, plus who know how armor reduces damage, sooo... yeah, all 6 to kill a berserker sounds about right. Not bugged, unless you have the 50% armor damage talent and it still takes 6. The 6 cloaked stickies strat is still one of the best burst dps abilities in the game, you just have to hit 2 ammo boxes between bursts. For reference, unbuffed melee hits for 300ish, it's just really easy to get +175% damage and break the 800 damage mark.
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Apr 11, 2017 01:24
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Tasoth posted:So I know shotguns are bad and smartchoke is busted, but is there a known issue with shotgun pellets going outside the ADS reticle? I was firing a Disciple V last night at the walls at different ranges. One pellet almost always was outside the reticle and it wasn't uncommon for two or three more to impact outside it. Or is this just something weird because I was shooting at a wall? Something's very fucky with the aiming in this game. I noticed while sniping during a hack objective that if I stood in certain places, the bullet would fly out way outside of the crosshair. It would go dead center, then if I moved an inch to the side, the bullet would start coming out far to the left and slightly below the crosshair. It was very strange and I've noticed bullets not quite going where the crosshair says they should in other places too. So I can't quite tell if the game is actually trying to originate the bullet from the character's gun or if it just creates the bullet based on the crosshair location. SmallpoxJenkins posted:Does it benefit from the cloak damage bonus? They don't. Hilariously, you can also use cobras without breaking cloak. Invisible Grenade Bastard is a pro way to play.
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Apr 11, 2017 01:25
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precision posted:Is sticky grenade bugged? Taking the damage upgrades doesn't actually change the value on the power screen. Also it doesn't seem like it should take 6 of them from cloak to kill a berserker. Maybe you should play bronze?
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Apr 11, 2017 01:28
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I tried out a Ruzad IV on HuVan and it was surprisingly decent. It applied ammo effects better than a Talon I and with max smart choke had much better range.
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Apr 11, 2017 01:39
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Digirat posted:Something's very fucky with the aiming in this game. I noticed while sniping during a hack objective that if I stood in certain places, the bullet would fly out way outside of the crosshair. It would go dead center, then if I moved an inch to the side, the bullet would start coming out far to the left and slightly below the crosshair. It was very strange and I've noticed bullets not quite going where the crosshair says they should in other places too. So I can't quite tell if the game is actually trying to originate the bullet from the character's gun or if it just creates the bullet based on the crosshair location. To my experience, this happens with the KroGuard and KroEng. The bullet hits to the left of the tip of the downward tine of the ADS crosshair for snipers. Everytime, it seems.
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Apr 11, 2017 02:14
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It's time for Uncle Relentless's Math Corner again! Fun fact! Shotguns show Total Damage Per Shot in the game, but Per Pellet in the app. So the Katana X is 427 in the game, but 61 in the app. 61x7 = 427. 2 good bodyshots take out a bronze raider, but I had to try REALLY hard to get both of them to land. Effectively I was landing 5 or 6 pellets per shot at anything greater than literally touching them. So, per pellet and per shot seem correct, but I think with the more nuanced hitboxes (I can definitely snipe between somebody's legs and miss them), generally small models on everything besides the Hydra, Fiend and Destroyer, and a busted smart choke they just suck.
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Apr 11, 2017 02:22
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Servers are crapping out again.  e: I really wish the Thokin didn't suck. It's really fun and cool to use but does so little damage for the low tracking and slow projectiles and super slow reload that even with turbocharge you're barely getting the kill even on Bronze. RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Apr 11, 2017 |
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Apr 11, 2017 02:24
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Relentless posted:Get in discord and say hi! https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3814279
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Apr 11, 2017 02:55
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Digirat posted:What points? Their posts in this thread have become just about nothing but condescending and contentless "actually you are wrong" shots without a loving bit of explanation. Their standpoint aligns with yours which is probably why you think it's good, but they haven't so much as made one goddamn attempt at a convincing argument, whereas you and zakmonster have actually had something to say. I don't agree with what you're saying, but it's not white noise. I get what you're saying, but at the same time I'm not really feeling the lack of impact. Granted, it might be because the weapons I tend to use are pretty strong, but when I can hit Turbocharge and delete a berserker in one clip of the Thokin, I'm thinking that its pretty well-balanced. And I've had plenty of games finish in about 15-17 minutes where no one played a punchy guy or a sniper. Also, I actually prefer fighting slightly tougher mooks and less giant enemies, than fighting nothing but atlases and phantoms for an entire wave. You can say that mooks are bullet-sponges in MEA, but Atlases were even worse and you had to fight 6 of them in wave 10 of ME3. There is also a potential problem with the soldiers and the human sentinel, if you're going to buff weapons/nerf enemy health such that TTK is more reminiscent of ME3. The weapons platforms are pretty drat good with just about any weapons (typically the full autos), so if weapons get buffed then they're likely to become overpowered. So either the soldiers get nerfed, which will piss a bunch of people off, or the weapons don't get buffed as much as people would like, which will piss people off as well. A possible solution is to make mooks easier to kill by increasing power and weapon damage, such that any class has little to no issues dealing with them, while increasing the tankiness of shielded/armored units (excepted for the Anointed, those guys are tanky enough), such that TTK for these mobs are the same as it is now. Also, accuracy decay needs to be reduced by a significant amount.
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Apr 11, 2017 02:55
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Just a heads up, if you're already planning on buying Totinos products they come with a code for 5 XP Booster IIs. Not too bad.
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Apr 11, 2017 02:57
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g0del posted:Do you happen to know how much damage a cobra does? Because I got stuck fighting two berserkers as a vanguard once and for some dumb reason I needed to get away fast and didn't want to just leave them. So I shot one with a cobra and neither died. Then I shot another cobra (I can't be positive that I hit the same berserker both times) and they still weren't dead. I'm curious if gold berserkers should be able to shrug off cobras, or if I ran into a bug or weird lag situation. I'm not sure how much raw damage they do, but Cobras suffer from MASSIVE damage falloff. If two berserkers are standing right next to each other, and you shoot one in the face, he will die, and his buddy will have 1/3rd to 1/2 health left. I'm pretty sure that's why they suck against fiends. There's something weird with the hitbox calculation because it NEVER seems to "direct hit" a fiend like it does the other big guys. It's bad enough that I've had raiders definitely take damage from a cobra (because I was the only one alive), but not die.
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Apr 11, 2017 02:59
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quote:I get what you're saying, but at the same time I'm not really feeling the lack of impact. Granted, it might be because the weapons I tend to use are pretty strong, but when I can hit Turbocharge and delete a berserker in one clip of the Thokin, I'm thinking that its pretty well-balanced. And I've had plenty of games finish in about 15-17 minutes where no one played a punchy guy or a sniper. On what difficulty? Admittedly it was Thokin 1 and a lower level Turbocharge, but it wasn't even a quarter of a Berserker's health on bronze. Does it get that powerful at Thokin X? I really hope so it's a cool gun!
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Apr 11, 2017 03:02
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RBA Starblade posted:On what difficulty? Admittedly it was Thokin 1 and a lower level Turbocharge, but it wasn't even a quarter of a Berserker's health on bronze. Does it get that powerful at Thokin X? Gold. Thokin 9, Barrel 10, Magazine 5. EDIT: On a level 20 human soldier with Turbocharge and Munitions Training maxed out. This is why I'm hesitant on overbuffing weapons, because the soldiers are already drat good as it is.
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Apr 11, 2017 03:05
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Zakmonster posted:Gold. Thokin 9, Barrel 10, Magazine 5. Nice, glad to hear it gets good. Now if it'd just stop giving me scattershots. How'd you spec your soldier? Just starting on mine.
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Apr 11, 2017 03:11
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RBA Starblade posted:Nice, glad to hear it gets good. Now if it'd just stop giving me scattershots. 6 Turbocharge: 4b/5a/6a 6 Concussive Shot: 4b/5b/6a 1 Frag Grenade 6 Munitions Training: 4a/5b/6a 6 Combat Fitness: 4a/5a/6a I'm still unsure about the 4th rank of Concussive Shot. Either works, really. I also tend to go with Disruptor ammo, if I can remember to equip it.
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Apr 11, 2017 03:28
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Zakmonster posted:6 Turbocharge: 4b/5a/6a Cool I'll give that a shot. Wasn't sure if I cared about the frags enough to take a point out of concussive shot for them though, and wasn't going to take away from anything else for it.
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Apr 11, 2017 03:30
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Yeah, I'm going to level my other human soldier and spec him for grenading things. Apparently that build is pretty fun too, if a little to attached to the ammo boxes.
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Apr 11, 2017 03:34
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Also, I did some cleanup on my spreadsheet, it's not perfect, but if anybody wants to poke around: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1E1inVcT4eIi1pFwTMptqMYPMLbfIkUavyeyBY5LjQYk/edit#gid=0 The single shot sniper rifle times include getting a reload in after every shot, so they're sort of skewed weird. I've also manually edited (and noted) the ROF on a couple of weapons that don't fire at the listed ROF, notably the Hornet loses over half it's RoF to burst fire animations, and the Hesh is also screwy. I'm sure the Sandstorm is as well, but I can't be bothered to check it. I've also automatically weighted the accuracy numbers to adjust for not being able to hit poo poo, but that only really shows on the shotguns, and even if you don't account for that, most of them still suck! The breakpoints group around 800/1600/2400 health, so there are certain sniper rifles (widow) that really benefit from a barrel mod to hit that breakpoint early on, but then no longer need it once they're maxed.
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Apr 11, 2017 03:39
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Relentless posted:I'm not sure how much raw damage they do, but Cobras suffer from MASSIVE damage falloff.
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Apr 11, 2017 05:32
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Doc Dee posted:Just a heads up, if you're already planning on buying Totinos products they come with a code for 5 XP Booster IIs. Not too bad. Can you do the math on how many minutes I'm shaving off my life eating that dogfood vs how much time the boosters would save me getting a character to 20? tia
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