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We're all so adicted to masochism that we're all currently F5'n British politics. We need help.  Not needed, but dogs are always needed Boon fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Jun 9, 2017 |
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Jun 9, 2017 02:09
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The funniest possible outcome of our insane fuckup timeline would be if the last enterprise Trump craters in his miserable life is the rise of global fascism.
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Jun 9, 2017 02:10
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Rigel posted:Amusing UK election note, one of the candidates for Labor who won was so certain he wouldn't win his district that he didn't even bother to bring a suit. Where he was running against a (former?) party leader. 
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Jun 9, 2017 02:11
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pumpinglemma posted:Which means the Tories are going to be pissed, since May called the election three years early in response to a massive Tory lead Can someone give a quick run down on why this snap election is taking place to a dumb american? If the tories already had a lead, why would they need to do another election? Did they need more of a majority to get their follow through on their brexit plans? I get that they were overconfident (apparently either form bad polling, or from what I took from a quick read, recent landslide local elections?) and that's whats causing this upset but the initial premise sounds weird.
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Jun 9, 2017 02:15
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Ventana posted:Can someone give a quick run down on why this snap election is taking place to a dumb american? After that happens, they can give that rundown to the tories, who are currently equally loving baffled why this did this.
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Jun 9, 2017 02:16
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Boon posted:We're all so adicted to masochism that we're all currently F5'n British politics. see this is what i'm talking about. if you're gonna do a dog don't just GIS "dog" or whatever, go the extra mile and make it topical.
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Jun 9, 2017 02:17
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I'm calling it now, there will be claims that the Russians interfered in the British election to support Labour. Not saying they did, just that some people will say that they did. Hell, the Russians may put out that disinfo themselves. What better way to revive the HRC/Bernie animosity in the US Left. It might even get some progressives annoyed enough to say that all the claims of Russian interference are just centrists' excuses for not being popular.
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Jun 9, 2017 02:17
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It's fascinating to see the difference in conservative parties between the USA and UK. One is hellbent on having as few people vote as possible and the other keeps loving themselves by calling for votes.
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Jun 9, 2017 02:18
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Where he was running against a (former?) party leader. That one's been a long time coming.
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Jun 9, 2017 02:18
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Haha, this is great. Backpedal more, you gently caress.
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Jun 9, 2017 02:19
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Ventana posted:Can someone give a quick run down on why this snap election is taking place to a dumb american? If the tories already had a lead, why would they need to do another election? Did they need more of a majority to get their follow through on their brexit plans? I get that they were overconfident (apparently either form bad polling, or from what I took from a quick read, recent landslide local elections?) and that's whats causing this upset but the initial premise sounds weird. They thought they were going to be able to crush Labor forever. Much like they were originally sure Remain would win easily when they called that referendum lol
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Jun 9, 2017 02:19
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MrNemo posted:Professional bookmakers have historically been better predictors than UK pollsters (mostly because they get recorded near the election) And are currently giving they are putting Corbyn as a odds favorite for next PM
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Jun 9, 2017 02:20
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Ventana posted:Can someone give a quick run down on why this snap election is taking place to a dumb american? If the tories already had a lead, why would they need to do another election? Did they need more of a majority to get their follow through on their brexit plans? I get that they were overconfident (apparently either form bad polling, or from what I took from a quick read, recent landslide local elections?) and that's whats causing this upset but the initial premise sounds weird.
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Jun 9, 2017 02:23
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:see this is what i'm talking about. if you're gonna do a dog don't just GIS "dog" or whatever, go the extra mile and make it topical. man this thread is fuckin' bangin' with the topicaldogs. dogrule keeping on even if it's not official is like the best form of shitpost
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Jun 9, 2017 02:25
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How left is Labour and how right is Tory?
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Jun 9, 2017 02:27
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Arrgytehpirate posted:How left is Labour and how right is Tory? Current flavor of labor is to the left of bernie and current Torys are a little to the right of Democrats.
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Jun 9, 2017 02:27
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Ventana posted:Can someone give a quick run down on why this snap election is taking place to a dumb american? If the tories already had a lead, why would they need to do another election? Did they need more of a majority to get their follow through on their brexit plans? I get that they were overconfident (apparently either form bad polling, or from what I took from a quick read, recent landslide local elections?) and that's whats causing this upset but the initial premise sounds weird. They wanted to run up the score, but they hosed up hard. A series of scandals, like cutting police right before a series of terrorist attacks, kicking people out of nursing homes, loving up the NHS so it gets wrecked by WannaCry and just generally turning everything they touch into poo poo has not inspired confidence. So they're going to lose seats, but still be the largest party and in control. Labour has won by losing less than anticipated.
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Jun 9, 2017 02:28
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Ventana posted:Can someone give a quick run down on why this snap election is taking place to a dumb american? If the tories already had a lead, why would they need to do another election? Did they need more of a majority to get their follow through on their brexit plans? I get that they were overconfident (apparently either form bad polling, or from what I took from a quick read, recent landslide local elections?) and that's whats causing this upset but the initial premise sounds weird. Look to Japan for a better understanding. That's a country where the National Diet (their parliament) has a poo poo ton of power. Abe's party held a majority but not enough to push major constitutional re-interpretations or reforms. Then Abe dissolved the government and triggered an election in the belief that support was strong enough to win more seats. It worked, and he did and Japan was able to push some constitutional reforms (not making a judgement).
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Jun 9, 2017 02:28
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Semper fi dogs
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Jun 9, 2017 02:28
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Arrgytehpirate posted:How left is Labour and how right is Tory? Tory campaign: If you want a friend of the family for a neighbour vote liberal and labour. Labour campaign: We made a terrible mistake with the whole Neoliberal thing. Blair was wrong. Let's bring back the '70s. Labour will back off on that promise hard and go back to being neoliberal shills but it's still a move in the right direction. This according to my drunk English friend, so n=1 and highly anecdotal.
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Jun 9, 2017 02:29
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Arrgytehpirate posted:How left is Labour and how right is Tory? Labour would be considered Socialists here and Tories would be closer to 'Blue Dog' Democrats. UKIP et al are/were about the closest to UK having a GOP, which explains why Nigel Farage has practically self-exiled himself over here to 'orbit' Trump.
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Jun 9, 2017 02:29
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Peven Stan posted:Current flavor of labor is to the left of bernie and current Torys are a little to the right of Democrats. Sounds like ya'll kinda win either way then.... and you already have universal health care
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Jun 9, 2017 02:30
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Well, the Labour lead is dropping and there are, like, 500 seats left to be called. I guess it remains to be seen how good or bad an idea this was for them.
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Jun 9, 2017 02:31
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Tories are buisness scum Republicans, not religious fanatic Republicans. Not sure they are less right wing so much as less Religious Right.
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Jun 9, 2017 02:32
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Shbobdb posted:Tory campaign:
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Jun 9, 2017 02:33
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Not that government people don't do these things, but I think Trump just thought dealing with Comey was like any other business interaction: "What can I do for you?/What do I have against you?/What can you do for me?" In business the easy go-to route is to figure out what two parties can do for each other. The executive branch and our investigatory agencies strictly should not work this way even in less-official circumstances. Still, Trump always has gotten-off on locker room banter on all subjects before so...who knows? That was really surprising to me that Bush and Obama had so few meetings with the head of our largest? domestic investigation bureau. The non-optimistic part of me thinks that this is really all Comey reported back to us today and at best this is another stepping stone in a long hot summer of absolute bullshit proceedings that must be conducted in order to do things the right way. Bullshit, because Trump doesn't deserve these mechanisms in the first place and bullshit because he might come out OK. I mean the way Comey described the nervousness of Kushner (who had no place there IMO) and Sessions before that one-on-one with Trump...if we trust his word as a someone who has worked his life appraising guilt I guess we should consider it true. Basically Trump just flashes everyone with a loaded gun constantly (and often accidentally) but its like we only have laws written for when the gun goes off. And we have a bulk of the population that absolutely loves him for that. Its unclear what is, on average, the oldest thing in America: our senators, our infrastructure or our ability to suffer complete imbeciles.
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Jun 9, 2017 02:33
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Yeah, May, at least sounds pretty far to the right of the Democratic party with how hard she wants to cut literally everything, plus the whole 'gently caress human rights laws TERRORISM.' She sounds like a Kaisch style Republican to me.
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Jun 9, 2017 02:34
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Arrgytehpirate posted:Sounds like ya'll kinda win either way then.... and you already have universal health care Anything as right or further right than the blue dog Dems are way too far to the right, even if they're not the insane death cult most of the GOP is.
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Jun 9, 2017 02:35
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Reading the UK thread, and having read the EU thread before, it's weird how there are outright fascists that come in and post. Like, we don't have anyone like that in US Pol/this thread (aside from trolls like SmokeSumtin). I guess that's because they have a thread in GBS.
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Jun 9, 2017 02:36
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pumpinglemma posted:The Tories had a majority but not a bulletproof one. Then the Labour membership chose an "unelectable socialist" as leader, causing the party to dissolve into civil war. And Brexit happened, which caused UKIP (a far-right party that badly split the Tory vote in 2015) to collapse. The overall result was a twenty point poll lead, so it looked like calling an election would lead to both a vastly increased majority and two more years of government before having to call a real election. At the time, it looked like a good political move and I was genuinely dreading it. Ah ok, this helps clears it up, ty Boon posted:Look to Japan for a better understanding. That's a country where the National Diet (their parliament) has a poo poo ton of power. Abe's party held a majority but not enough to push major constitutional re-interpretations or reforms. Then Abe dissolved the government and triggered an election in the belief that support was strong enough to win more seats. It worked, and he did and Japan was able to push some constitutional reforms (not making a judgement). Yeah this is sort of idea I was thinking. Interesting that it seemed to work in that Japan situation and not in this one though, I wonder if those recent UK scandals/events really did push things that far back.
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Jun 9, 2017 02:37
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Arrgytehpirate posted:Sounds like ya'll kinda win either way then.... and you already have universal health care Haven't the Tories been slowly strangling the NHS for the last few decades?
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Jun 9, 2017 02:39
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Stickman posted:Haven't the Tories been slowly strangling the NHS for the last few decades? Yes. They are fucks.
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Jun 9, 2017 02:39
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Reading the UK thread, and having read the EU thread before, it's weird how there are outright fascists that come in and post. Like, we don't have anyone like that in US Pol/this thread (aside from trolls like SmokeSumtin). I guess that's because they have
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Jun 9, 2017 02:41
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Gorelab posted:Yeah, May, at least sounds pretty far to the right of the Democratic party with how hard she wants to cut literally everything, plus the whole 'gently caress human rights laws TERRORISM.' She sounds like a Kaisch style Republican to me.
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Jun 9, 2017 02:45
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Does anyone know why Comey doesn't believe the reporting regarding meetings between Trump people and Russian intelligence agents? Particularly given that the whole reason Flynn got canned was because he was meeting with Russians?
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Jun 9, 2017 02:53
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Reading the UK thread, and having read the EU thread before, it's weird how there are outright fascists that come in and post. Like, we don't have anyone like that in US Pol/this thread (aside from trolls like SmokeSumtin). I guess that's because they have a thread in GBS. Fascism represent one of the major current countercultural groups.
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Jun 9, 2017 02:53
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Skex posted:Does anyone know why Comey doesn't believe the reporting regarding meetings between Trump people and Russian intelligence agents? I think he was sticking to just the absolute facts so no one could gotcha him by finding out later some speculation was wrong. Like he probably believes in those meetings 100% but knows he can just say they aren't even an issue and still have enough ironclad proof evidence of the stuff he's saying without going off on less solid stuff.
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Jun 9, 2017 02:55
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Skex posted:Does anyone know why Comey doesn't believe the reporting regarding meetings between Trump people and Russian intelligence agents? e: nm
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Jun 9, 2017 02:56
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Skex posted:Does anyone know why Comey doesn't believe the reporting regarding meetings between Trump people and Russian intelligence agents? I don't think we actually have any indication as to what parts of the story Comey objected to or why. There are tons of possibilities, but he hasn't said much of anything to point in any direction in particular.
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Jun 9, 2017 03:03
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pumpinglemma posted:Conservatives don't quite map to Democrats or Republicans. Here's a slightly oversimplified version: on moral issues like gay rights, abortion and so on, most of them are centrist Democrats with the occasional Republican thrown in. Economically, most of them are old-school Republicans. The problem is, almost all the voters are Democrats, so they have to pretend to be centrist Democrats in order to get votes. For example, they want to destroy the NHS (single-payer healthcare), but the voters all want to keep it. So rather than run on destroying it, they vocally proclaim their love for it while advocating the need for austerity to cut the deficit. They then slowly starve it of resources until it "has to be" privatised and they can move closer to the US model. And how long has this starve the beast plan been going/how well is it working?
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Jun 9, 2017 03:11
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