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MaRo posted:A big part of trying to figure out the story had to do with figuring out how to undo some of what had happened in Avacyn Restored. We needed things to get worse again. Hmm, what if almost everyone, including the protectors of the world, started going mad? Pretty sure I posted this exact line of thought when the set first got revealed
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Mar 21, 2016 16:21
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I actually think Tireless Tracker is better. It grinds out value and probably demands an answer at some point.
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Mar 21, 2016 16:22
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Rip_Van_Winkle posted:
I'm feeling this might be a beast in an RG ramp shell. Since it gets better the more expensive your cards get (on average), and RG doesn't have much in the way of card draw, this guy could be fun. I agree that it's kind of crap in a burn or aggro deck, but the larger your average mana cost per card is (maybe as high as 3?), the better this guy gets. And being able to turn over a Desolation Twin or Kozilek and have them HAVE to let you draw it seems fun (if horribly brutal). And it helps to trigger Delirium. What's not to like 
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Mar 21, 2016 16:26
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Sin Prodder doesn't seem that amazing. It's Boggart Brute that maybe pings your opponent each upkeep. Even if it's just a land, it at least goes to the graveyard and you get a second chance at drawing some action. Death of Rats posted:I'm feeling this might be a beast in an RG ramp shell. Since it gets better the more expensive your cards get (on average), and RG doesn't have much in the way of card draw, this guy could be fun. I agree that it's kind of crap in a burn or aggro deck, but the larger your average mana cost per card is (maybe as high as 3?), the better this guy gets. And being able to turn over a Desolation Twin or Kozilek and have them HAVE to let you draw it seems fun (if horribly brutal). And it helps to trigger Delirium. What's not to like They don't have to let you draw it, they can just say "sure, take 10 and kill you next turn". Also midrange bodies that die to removal don't really fit into the gameplan of ramp decks.
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Mar 21, 2016 16:28
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I actually think Tireless Tracker is better. It grinds out value and probably demands an answer at some point. This is really dumb but if you play that turn 3 into turn 4 Scapeshift cracking a fetch beforehand you can end up with 10 cluestones and you get to crack 2 of them.
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Mar 21, 2016 16:29
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I actually think Tireless Tracker is better. It grinds out value and probably demands an answer at some point. Landfall gets a lot worse without fetch lands and how many lands drop in an average standard game... 6? 7? He also doesn't have any evasion or any other ability but the +1+1. Doesn't seem all that powerful to me. I am not all that sold on Sin prodder at first look either, but he at least has evasion. I don't know how well letting your opponent mill your lands and take damage to nullify your card advantage plays out in games. Seems to be not a terrible amount of upside to you except in a very aggressive deck that doesn't want a lot of land and extra damage is always an upside. Interesting card at the very least. It is just one of those cards that is really hard to judge accurately without playtesting it.
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Mar 21, 2016 16:30
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little munchkin posted:Even if it's just a land, it at least goes to the graveyard and you get a second chance at drawing some action. Yeah, that's the rub. Do you want to pay 0 for your opponent to not draw a land? Not very often. It's a punisher card, that's not quite as bad as others.
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Mar 21, 2016 16:30
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En Fuego posted:Yeah, that's the rub. Do you want to pay 0 for your opponent to not draw a land? Not very often. Um they still get the draw step, giving them a free land is pointless
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Mar 21, 2016 16:32
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Sin Prodder doesn't seem that amazing. It's Boggart Brute that maybe pings your opponent each upkeep. It's a punisher card of course it's not good.
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Mar 21, 2016 16:34
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I don't know that it's good or bad but it might be relevant if they print more burn spells or if it's in a delirium deck. Also kind of a wombo combo with goblin dark dwellers.
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Mar 21, 2016 16:34
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He is basically reverse bob with 1 more cmc and evasion. If anything I appreciate wotc trying to make cards like this to see how they play out.
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Mar 21, 2016 16:34
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Drawing 6 or 7 cards over the courser of a game still seems pretty decent. It depends on the speed of standard obviously but if you can crack the clue tokens it's kindof a must-answer threat that's already given you value the turn you've played it.
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Mar 21, 2016 16:36
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Judging by this thread, I can't wait to reveal a land and have my opponent say, "You can have it."
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Mar 21, 2016 16:39
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So how do effects like Sin Prodder work in multiplayer? Not that I play any multiplayer, but does it just go clockwise and everyone gets one shot to say yes or no? Or? Because I can imagine a situation where no one wants you to get the card, but no one wants to be the first to step up either and that sounds annoying, so there's probably a way to deal with it already in place. Is there a Gatherer rules entry for a similar card I could look at?
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Mar 21, 2016 16:41
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TheKingofSprings posted:Seems like Eldrazi will be the most consistent deck going into the new standard. How about the Mono Red deck that Kent Ketter was piloting over the weekend. It's losing Tomb of the Spirit Dragon and the lifegain from it but I don't think that's enough to kill the deck. gently caress $25.00 Chandra's though
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Mar 21, 2016 16:42
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BJPaskoff posted:Judging by this thread, I can't wait to reveal a land and have my opponent say, "You can have it." Is Molten Vortex rotating?
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Mar 21, 2016 16:43
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Reminder that the card either goes into your yard or your hand, then you draw.
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Mar 21, 2016 16:43
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Rip_Van_Winkle posted:
Punisher cards are USUALLY bad.
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Mar 21, 2016 16:43
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odiv posted:So how do effects like Sin Prodder work in multiplayer? Not that I play any multiplayer, but does it just go clockwise and everyone gets one shot to say yes or no? Or? Because I can imagine a situation where no one wants you to get the card, but no one wants to be the first to step up either and that sounds annoying, so there's probably a way to deal with it already in place. Is there a Gatherer rules entry for a similar card I could look at? As far as I know it goes in priority order, one chance to respond per player, no changing your mind if the person after you decides to not respond.
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Mar 21, 2016 16:45
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Can we add "this punisher card is good" to our bingo card?
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Mar 21, 2016 16:45
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Count Bleck posted:Reminder that the card either goes into your yard or your hand, then you draw. Yes the potential to draw two cards for the rest of the game (as long as Sin Prodder is alive) seems good. Plus its not legendary so you could theoretically stack up to 4 cards off the top.
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Mar 21, 2016 16:46
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Sin Prodder seems really fun and good value? IDK, punisher cards are usually disappointing but this is way better design space than the usual "discard a card at random" draw effect that red gets. Also that vampire token discard engine would be worth running if you could use it more than once a turn, but alas.
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Mar 21, 2016 16:48
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He's like a crappy bob if you're not in black, naya or rug midrange sort of decks.
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Mar 21, 2016 16:50
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lazerwolf posted:Yes the potential to draw two cards for the rest of the game (as long as Sin Prodder is alive) seems good. Plus its not legendary so you could theoretically stack up to 4 cards off the top. The potential to watch every spell you need to win the game get milled away seems bad though.
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Mar 21, 2016 16:52
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jassi007 posted:The potential to watch every spell you need to win the game get milled away seems bad though. But then you might be able to cast it for free via dark dwellers, all upside!
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Mar 21, 2016 16:55
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Seems like it'd be fun in cube with alt-cast stuff like Shriekmaw.
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Mar 21, 2016 16:56
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jassi007 posted:The potential to watch every spell you need to win the game get milled away seems bad though. It also lets you filter past useless lands to draw the spell you need to win the game, by that logic
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Mar 21, 2016 16:58
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dragon enthusiast posted:It also lets you filter past useless lands to draw the spell you need to win the game, by that logic you can't apply logic to feel bads, that just makes people feel bad
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Mar 21, 2016 17:00
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jassi007 posted:The potential to watch every spell you need to win the game get milled away seems bad though. Milling doesn't actually change the odds of whether you draw a certain card.
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Mar 21, 2016 17:06
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dragon enthusiast posted:It also lets you filter past useless lands to draw the spell you need to win the game, by that logic That is an advantage, if the card revealed is a land, whether they let you draw it or mill it, assuming you don't need the land, then you are up a card. And sure, sometimes they'll be in a scenario where either taking the damage or allowing you to have the card are both bad for them, punisher cards aren't ALWAYS bad and nobody says they are. The issue is when your opponent isn't in a lose/lose scenario you don't get any advantage. In fact you are often at a disadvantage because you could have put some other card in your deck that didn't allow your opponent to chose whats worse for you. little munchkin posted:Milling doesn't actually change the odds of whether you draw a certain card. Correct, but giving your opponent control of what you draw, even for 1/2 draws, is certainly not good for you. If the revealed card is an out you need, you are in trouble unless the damage it would deal can kill them. This card is only good if you are ahead and it doesn't matter what is revealed or what choice they make. jassi007 fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Mar 21, 2016 |
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Mar 21, 2016 17:08
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little munchkin posted:Milling doesn't actually change the odds of whether you draw a certain card. SUUURE buddy, I bet you don't think fetching to thin your deck is relevant either.
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Mar 21, 2016 17:09
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http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/card-preview/basic-lands-shadows-over-innistrad-2016-03-21 I am sure whatever reason they give for not wanting to do full art lands every set is still as silly today as it was for all the sets in between each zendikar release. Maybe it costs more ink or something. Still seems to me that we get some really good art for some lands every set and it should get more real-estate. little munchkin posted:Milling doesn't actually change the odds of whether you draw a certain card. Standard milling, no. A conditional mill like this one? Probably slightly. Sickening fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Mar 21, 2016 |
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Mar 21, 2016 17:10
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Cactrot posted:SUUURE buddy, I bet you don't think fetching to thin your deck is relevant either.
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Mar 21, 2016 17:12
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jassi007 posted:Correct, but giving your opponent of what you draw is certainly not good for you. Your opponent has no control over what you draw. You're drawing one card per turn, just like you would normally. There's another card that you may or may not draw, but the ability doesn't change the odds that that your guaranteed draw for the turn is the card you want. Statistically the ability is pure upside. Sickening posted:Standard milling, no. A conditional mill like this one? Probably slightly. Please explain, like in a mathematical sense, how this would work. The only difference between this and standard milling is that sometimes the milled card will go to your hand. How would that make you less likely to have certain card go to your hand? little munchkin fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Mar 21, 2016 |
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Mar 21, 2016 17:15
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Sickening posted:http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/card-preview/basic-lands-shadows-over-innistrad-2016-03-21 The first Zendikar set got full arts because it was a lands matter set. The second was just because people expected them.
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Mar 21, 2016 17:20
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Cactrot posted:But then you might be able to cast it for free via dark dwellers, all upside!  I want to run this Devil, that 5/5 Wolf with the 1R pitch a card deal damage to creature, Dark Dwellers, and Fiery Tempers in some Big Red Shell. I need this in my life. Count Bleck fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Mar 21, 2016 |
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Mar 21, 2016 17:20
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Sickening posted:Standard milling, no. A conditional mill like this one? Probably slightly. The top card of your deck is leaving your deck either way; your opponent just chooses which non-deck place it gets sent. You will always draw the second card from the top of your deck.
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Mar 21, 2016 17:27
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Lottery of Babylon posted:The top card of your deck is leaving your deck either way; your opponent just chooses which non-deck place it gets sent. You will always draw the second card from the top of your deck. This, basically. It's also a 3/2 with menace which isn't irrelevant. It's a Red Bob if I ever saw one. So, have we heard anything about these Echoes of Innistrad? They mentioned it a while ago and I haven't seen anything about what it is.
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Mar 21, 2016 17:29
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Rip_Van_Winkle posted:As far as I know it goes in priority order, one chance to respond per player, no changing your mind if the person after you decides to not respond. priority order is technically how these interactions are handled. In actual practice, however- the players who stand to lose from the effect/spell being cast all confer with one another going "oh no, can't you afford to take the life loss? Please? I'll do you a solid for the next few turns" while the player controlling the effect/spell goes "hey! no canoodling, in priority order, player to my left, will you pay?" ps: All hail Rob, the red bob!
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Mar 21, 2016 17:30
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Count Bleck posted:This, basically. I would have figured that if this set was going to have expeditions/echos we would have heard about it by now. Weren't expeditions one of the first things spoiled for each of the previous sets?
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Mar 21, 2016 17:31
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