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Gologle posted:Going back to FF7 for a bit, I'm playing Crisis Core again and I'm amazed at this game all over again. It's pretty good, the soundtrack is great, and while the characters and plot it introduced is a bit...much? this sort of thing should be expected because how else are you going to make a prequel game about Zack, when we knew very little about the guy? I'm pretty nostalgic for this one...My brother had a PSP and got this game when it was released. I only played it right before bed at like midnight as it was my first Summer back from college, when not much was going on/had no real job. I get warm feelings thinking back on the pretty easy gameplay, sweet updated music, and quasi sensical back story to FF7 (another childhood staple). I too was surprised at how good it actually ended up being! Welp thats it!
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Jan 7, 2014 00:45
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toast288 posted:But I think people would buy the FF name, even after swallowing down a few games they may have enjoyed less. FF:MQ2 would be a day one purchase just for the soundtrack it'd have. Mystic Quest's music was amazing. It was made as babbys first RPG but it still managed to make the gameplay teach you along the way without the outright "press right to walk right" stupidity today.
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Jan 7, 2014 00:47
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Speaking of the ending scene (and an added scene in Advent Children Complete that is closely tied into it), I don't like it as much as I should have because of one line that proves that nobody at Square remembers FF7. As Zack is dying he gives Cloud the Buster Sword and tells him "You'll be my living legacy". Obviously this fucks with Cloud's already messed up mind, causing the stuff in FF7, but more than that, it cheapens Cloud's character arc. The point in FF7 is that Cloud casts off his delusions, becomes someone completely on his own, and comes to terms with who he is. Now this could be waved away as a prequel thing, setting up for that eventual arc, and that's valid, BUT THEN in Advent Children Complete Zack appears and reminds him. "Hey, remember you're my living legacy?" "YEP, I SURE AM." Like, come on guys. Cloud at the end was HIS OWN PERSON. That was his thing. Not some dude's successor.
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Jan 7, 2014 00:48
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Sunning posted:http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/27/original-kingdom-hearts-assets-lost How inept is Square Enix that they lose assets? Do they not even keep backups? Kingdom Hearts 1 was not "a long time ago"
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Jan 7, 2014 01:02
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Overbite posted:How inept is Square Enix that they lose assets? Do they not even keep backups? Kingdom Hearts 1 was not "a long time ago" I think in general its a known fact that even into the modern era Japanese companies are known for having some of the worst data preservation policies outside of a 1920s film studio.
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Jan 7, 2014 01:03
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Barudak posted:I think in general its a known fact that even into the modern era Japanese companies are known for having some of the worst data preservation policies outside of a 1920s film studio. In 5 years the original assets to Final Fantasy 7 are going to be found in some barn in eastern France.
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Jan 7, 2014 01:06
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Gologle posted:Speaking of the ending scene (and an added scene in Advent Children Complete that is closely tied into it), I don't like it as much as I should have because of one line that proves that nobody at Square remembers FF7. As Zack is dying he gives Cloud the Buster Sword and tells him I haven't played through CC or seen Advent Children Complete, but just from a reading of the line my interpretation is not that it's saying "OK, now you should become a Mini-me." It's saying something more like "your continued existence is a testament to my life. I saved you and helped you along a new road. Now you need to go out and live your life, as living evidence that I accomplished something with my life." A great work of art or enduring novel or thriving descendants might be the creator's "legacy"- something to show that the creator lived and their life had value.
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Jan 7, 2014 01:37
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Overbite posted:How inept is Square Enix that they lose assets? Do they not even keep backups? Kingdom Hearts 1 was not "a long time ago" As I said before, it's common for code to be lost in a fast changing company. SEGA lost the code for Panzer Dragoon Saga and several other Saturn games. The GBA version of R-Type III had to be reverse engineered from the original since IREM didn't have the original assets. There are also legal reasons why a company may lose access to code. For example, Neversoft had to build Guitar Hero III ground up since they didn't have access to Guitar Hero II code due to Harmonix's departure. Sony Online Entertainment allegedly lost the code to Star Wars Galaxy after the servers were shut down. Keeping onsite and offsite backups is something that has only become common for companies within the last decade. Hardware failure and user error can cost a lot of data. Nintendo is one of the few companies that has on on-site archivist who keeps track development. You can even see original design documents for the original Legend of Zelda on Iwata Asks.
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Jan 7, 2014 01:38
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Overbite posted:How inept is Square Enix that they lose assets? Do they not even keep backups? Kingdom Hearts 1 was not "a long time ago" This isn't just Square-Enix. A lot of companies do this. A lot of assets just do not get backed up properly once they are done with them or are lost due to technical failure/being misplaced/whatever.
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Jan 7, 2014 01:47
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Schwartzcough posted:I haven't played through CC or seen Advent Children Complete, but just from a reading of the line my interpretation is not that it's saying "OK, now you should become a Mini-me." It's saying something more like "your continued existence is a testament to my life. I saved you and helped you along a new road. Now you need to go out and live your life, as living evidence that I accomplished something with my life." A great work of art or enduring novel or thriving descendants might be the creator's "legacy"- something to show that the creator lived and their life had value. Exactly all this. Cloud continuing to live on preserves the memory of a simple SOLDIER named Zack Fair who died and was pretty much forgotten by the world. Aerith and his parents were probably the only people who remembered him or wondered about him. Well Tifa remembered him too but to her he was a nameless face.
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Jan 7, 2014 02:11
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Overbite posted:How inept is Square Enix that they lose assets? Do they not even keep backups? Kingdom Hearts 1 was not "a long time ago" First of all yeah it kind of was, second of all several Japanese developers didn't save assests until fairly recently it seems. It just wasn't a thing they did.
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Jan 7, 2014 02:19
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Overbite posted:In 5 years the original assets to Final Fantasy 7 are going to be found in some barn in eastern France. 
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Jan 7, 2014 02:19
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Schwartzcough posted:I haven't played through CC or seen Advent Children Complete, but just from a reading of the line my interpretation is not that it's saying "OK, now you should become a Mini-me." It's saying something more like "your continued existence is a testament to my life. I saved you and helped you along a new road. Now you need to go out and live your life, as living evidence that I accomplished something with my life." A great work of art or enduring novel or thriving descendants might be the creator's "legacy"- something to show that the creator lived and their life had value. This is exactly what the line was saying. "I live on in you because you remember me" is basically what he literally says in the Japanese version. (It's supposed to be ironic because Cloud promptly forgets Zack exists.) The idea isn't that Zack told Cloud "become me!" It was that Zack wanted Cloud to live on and be his own person and that would be a testament to everything Zack did and carry on his memory. It's exactly what Zack did for his own mentor. Then, because irony, Cloud ended up forgetting Zack existed and instead tried to become him which is exactly what Zack didn't want. (Zack's other last request was for Cloud to protect Aerith, which as you may recall? Didn't go so hot.) You're not supposed to take what happened at the end of Crisis Core as a good thing. Zack gets murdered and Cloud's hosed-up brain ends up inadvertently causing him to screw up literally every single one of Zack's last requests. It's only at the end once Cloud actually becomes his own person and goes on to do his own things that he actually does what Zack wanted. You can certainly say it is cheesy, melodramatic, JRPGy or whatever, but it doesn't do anything to Cloud's character arc but underline that Cloud was a hosed up guy at the start of the game. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Jan 7, 2014 |
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Jan 7, 2014 02:20
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Overbite posted:In 5 years the original assets to Final Fantasy 7 are going to be found in some barn in eastern France. I just... this is ridiculous to me. Those assets are worth hundreds of millions. Data preservation should be a huge priority. I mean the fact that they lost the FF7 and FF8 assets blows my mind. Think about how great the PC port would be if they could re-render the backgrounds.
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Jan 7, 2014 19:13
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semiavrage posted:I just... this is ridiculous to me. Those assets are worth hundreds of millions. Data preservation should be a huge priority. I mean the fact that they lost the FF7 and FF8 assets blows my mind. Think about how great the PC port would be if they could re-render the backgrounds. I doubt its worth hundreds of millions. At this point we're talking an at best range of tens of millions and more likely somewhere in the million or two if the stars align. The cost of keeping the data and transitioning it to new storage is a very real immediate cost and the benefit of keeping it around is a possible benefit that may not pay back the storage costs. It seems very reasonable from a "must be profitable now/save money now" standpoint to just get rid of or not properly maintain a finished projects data when that hardware and space could be used for new titles.
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Jan 7, 2014 19:15
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Barudak posted:I doubt its worth hundreds of millions. At this point we're talking an at best range of tens of millions and more likely somewhere in the million or two if the stars align. I disagree, I would say hundreds of millions. Final Fantasy is an incredibly valuable IP, it is basically the reason Square Enix still exists. Consider the cost of re-developing Kingdom Hearts (and possibly even FFX / FFX-2.) Consider the potential if they had the original room renders from the PS1 Final Fantasy games, the cutscenes and assets, even the original scripts. It does not make even a bit of sense to me for them to not put significant resources into preserving these. If Square were to be liquidated, consider the value these things would hold even as assets to be sold off!
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Jan 7, 2014 19:34
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semiavrage posted:I just... this is ridiculous to me. Those assets are worth hundreds of millions. Data preservation should be a huge priority. I mean the fact that they lost the FF7 and FF8 assets blows my mind. Think about how great the PC port would be if they could re-render the backgrounds. Gotta make room for more Aki Ross textures.
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Jan 7, 2014 19:34
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I'm picturing the Square execs all gathered together at a party for FF7 becoming the most popular RPG of all time, lighting cigars with the concept art. Yes, data retention and migration costs is A concern, but poo poo guys, your game just revolutionized the industry. You don't think it's worth keeping some files on that?
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Jan 7, 2014 19:36
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semiavrage posted:I disagree, I would say hundreds of millions. Final Fantasy is an incredibly valuable IP, it is basically the reason Square Enix still exists. Consider the cost of re-developing Kingdom Hearts (and possibly even FFX / FFX-2.) Consider the potential if they had the original room renders from the PS1 Final Fantasy games, the cutscenes and assets, even the original scripts. It does not make even a bit of sense to me for them to not put significant resources into preserving these. If Square were to be liquidated, consider the value these things would hold even as assets to be sold off! Final Fantasy as an IP is valuable. Final Fantasy as an individual game to re-release is far, far less so. When you have to balance the costs of maintaining the data for literal decades and paying people to do that against what might never be an equivalent return it becomes very easy for higher ups to cut themselves a check by "saving" money in the short term and not saving that. Especially when you're discussing taking source assets and messing with them to get them to run on modern hardware when you could instead save tons of money and build an emulator wrapper instead and shove it out there for way less money. Defiance Industries posted:Gotta make room for more Aki Ross textures. Her incomplete render excavated from the ruins of Japan centuries from now will be the Venus de Milo of the 2700s
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Jan 7, 2014 19:41
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It's that time again, here is LIGHTNING RETURNS: FINAL FANTASY XIII - Inside the Square: Episode 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6Op7Z5dW84 They talk about the 24 hour gameplay mechanic, the time limit, and the open world gameplay. There's quite a bit of ego-stroking of Toriyama for his leadership skills. Oh, and what would they do if
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Jan 7, 2014 19:44
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Sunning posted:It's that time again, here is LIGHTNING RETURNS: FINAL FANTASY XIII - Inside the Square: Episode 3: -snip- Did anyone else get Majora's Mask vibes from the way they talked about the game? Nihilarian fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Jan 8, 2014 |
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Jan 7, 2014 20:59
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Nihilarian posted:Did anyone else get Majora's Mask vibes from the way they talked about the game? Don't get my hopes up. There's no way Square today could make anything touching Majora's Mask in quality. I mean, I can dream, and Nintendo are never going to make a sequel/spiritual successor to it, so it really has to be someone else, but it's just not going to happen.
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Jan 7, 2014 21:07
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e: ^^^^ They made a successor to Link to the Past so now that the best has gotten followup maybe they'll do the rest.ZenMasterBullshit posted:First of all yeah it kind of was, second of all several Japanese developers didn't save assests until fairly recently it seems. It just wasn't a thing they did. This wasn't a Japanese thing. Baldur's Gate suffered because of the same thing. When the EEs were being done the original assets simply didn't exist so the remakes couldn't be as thorough as desired. semiavrage posted:I disagree, I would say hundreds of millions. Final Fantasy is an incredibly valuable IP, it is basically the reason Square Enix still exists. Consider the cost of re-developing Kingdom Hearts (and possibly even FFX / FFX-2.) Consider the potential if they had the original room renders from the PS1 Final Fantasy games, the cutscenes and assets, even the original scripts. It does not make even a bit of sense to me for them to not put significant resources into preserving these. If Square were to be liquidated, consider the value these things would hold even as assets to be sold off! The old assets and source code for every numbered FF game combined would not be worth hundreds of millions of dollars. You are insane. It could be worth more than the cost to store them (even with storage space having been much more expensive for less storage in the past) but Smaug's horde they are not.
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Jan 9, 2014 00:14
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I don't know a first thing about running a company or game design or writing fiction, but I'm almost sure that I could run Squeenix better piss drunk than their own CEO and developers: Bravely Default is the first real and good Final Fantasy game for years and it's made by the Silicon dudes, FF13 is a mess, FF15 probably becomes a mess after it comes from the development hell and now this FF X-2.5 thing which I learned about just today. The most telling fact about their incompetence is that a lot of people aren't even angry about Lightning returns' poo poo-rear end ending or X-2.5's baffling storytelling attempt: all that is just met with indifference. If people are angry, it shows that they still care, but when even that is gone, I don't know where you can go from there. Squeenix had had so much hit titles and they basically created the JRPG format, but even though the company still exists, people have just fiven up and forgotten about it. Achieving such state on your own is pretty bizarre. I wonder how it feels to live in a purgatory.
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Jan 9, 2014 00:15
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ManOfTheYear posted:I don't know a first thing about running a company or game design or writing fiction, but I'm almost sure that I could run Squeenix better piss drunk than their own CEO and developers: Bravely Default is the first real and good Final Fantasy game for years and it's made by the Silicon dudes, FF13 is a mess, FF15 probably becomes a mess after it comes from the development hell and now this FF X-2.5 thing which I learned about just today. The most telling fact about their incompetence is that a lot of people aren't even angry about Lightning returns' poo poo-rear end ending or X-2.5's baffling storytelling attempt: all that is just met with indifference. If people are angry, it shows that they still care, but when even that is gone, I don't know where you can go from there. They're still doing a pretty effective job to pandering to their core customer base, Japanese teenagers. Elsewhere in the world the JRPG genre is not really a big deal anymore, despite what that one guy on Kotaku writes all the time, because what Japanese teenagers like has very little overlap with the bulk of gamers elsewhere in the world.
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Jan 9, 2014 00:21
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Sunning posted:It's that time again, here is LIGHTNING RETURNS: FINAL FANTASY XIII - Inside the Square: Episode 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6Op7Z5dW84 Interaction? In a video-game!?  ManOfTheYear posted:The most telling fact about their incompetence is that a lot of people aren't even angry about Lightning returns' poo poo-rear end ending or X-2.5's baffling storytelling attempt: all that is just met with indifference. If people are angry, it shows that they still care, but when even that is gone, I don't know where you can go from there. It's hard to be angry about Lightning Returns' ending, when we all knew that it was going to be completely unsatisfactory anyway - the individual plots of the XIII series are such non-sequiturs to each other, it's extremely unlikely that it would wrap up nicely. The fact that it's so out of left field makes it amusing, at least. As for X-2.5's novella, I think we're all just resigned to the fact that SE is quite content to poo poo over itself, and its IPs. There's nothing concrete about that 2.5 thing (especially considering the reception it's apparently been getting from the Japanese fans), leading into another X sequel...but obviously, we'll just have to wait and see I guess.
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Jan 9, 2014 00:51
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Defiance Industries posted:They're still doing a pretty effective job to pandering to their core customer base, Japanese teenagers. Elsewhere in the world the JRPG genre is not really a big deal anymore, despite what that one guy on Kotaku writes all the time, because what Japanese teenagers like has very little overlap with the bulk of gamers elsewhere in the world. Yeah, you're right. Pandering seems to be more of an survival strategy than anything else and - for me at least - it shows how stuck they mentally are: rather than creating a game that would be more appealing to the general audience and thinking about the future, they are lazily and passively taking the easiest way out and started pandering with the basic anime shlock. RPGs maybe aren't a big thing right now, but action RPGs seem to sell (Mass Effect, Witcher) and I guess it's what they're aiming at with FF15 but they are super late with that train. Then they should have had smaller projects on handheld consoles, maybe more classic RPGs, and maybe some of those smaller projects could have been downloadable titles with cheaper prices. Persona 4 has apparently sold reasonably well, so I'd like to think that you could still make money with that genre if you aren't expecting Call of Duty-numbers. ManOfTheYear fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Jan 9, 2014 |
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Jan 9, 2014 00:59
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If people in this thread want an FF game thats good and free of the baggage of being an FF game go snag Bravely Default. It's a smaller-scale RPG spin-off with advancements from the last 2 decades of game design and mechanics evolution. I think the doomsaying of the FF brand proper is a bit over-rated. The real issue is how long/expensive its become for main-line titles to come out, how they've hurt the numbered mainline brand with the MMOs, and how much of a step back FFXIII was for a company which had already produced FFXII and Kingdom Hearts. If anything FFXV appears to be shaping up to what FFXIII should have been; an action RPG based on the Kingdom Hearts mold with party members and world layout using the FFXII gambits and MMO-esque world space. Edit: Make an FFVIII-2, though. I mean, you can kill the whole cast and set it in Restoration era Britain and not a single soul would be offended as long as you become capable of destroying time by playing a children's card game. Barudak fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Jan 9, 2014 |
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Jan 9, 2014 01:17
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ManOfTheYear posted:Yeah, you're right. Pandering seems to be more of an survival strategy than anything else and - for me at least - it shows how stuck they mentally are: rather than creating a game that would be more appealing to the general audience and thinking about the future, they are lazily and passively taking the easiest way out and started pandering with the basic anime shlock. RPGs maybe aren't a big thing right now, but action RPGs seem to sell (Mass Effect, Witcher) and I guess it's what they're aiming at with FF15 but they are super late with that train. Then they should have had smaller projects on handheld consoles, maybe more classic RPGs, and maybe some of those smaller projects could have been downloadable titles with cheaper prices. Persona 4 has apparently sold reasonably well, so I'd like to think that you could still make money with that genre if you aren't expecting Call of Duty-numbers. Unfortunately, that's really just not possible with Square. Fair or not, their name is associated with big budget RPGs featuring the best music and the prettiest graphics you can imagine, and all the associated costs that come with such a thing. They can get away with smaller scale stuff on handhelds (see Theatrhythm, Bravely Default, etc), but if Final Fantasy XVI was a lower-budget downloadable game, it would be poo poo on by pretty much everyone, no matter how good it actually was. Unless you're suggesting that they simply stop making Final Fantasy, which is also not an option for what I hope are obvious reasons.
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Jan 9, 2014 01:20
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Barudak posted:Edit: Make an FFVIII-2, though. I mean, you can kill the whole cast and set it in Restoration era Britain and not a single soul would be offended as long as you become capable of destroying time by playing a children's card game. Just make a random card game for the 3DS/Vita, call it Triple Triad, rake in all the money. You're welcome, Square. 
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Jan 9, 2014 01:28
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Barudak posted:If people in this thread want an FF game thats good and free of the baggage of being an FF game go snag Bravely Default. It's a smaller-scale RPG spin-off with advancements from the last 2 decades of game design and mechanics evolution.
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Jan 9, 2014 01:38
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Defiance Industries posted:They're still doing a pretty effective job to pandering to their core customer base, Japanese teenagers. Elsewhere in the world the JRPG genre is not really a big deal anymore, despite what that one guy on Kotaku writes all the time, because what Japanese teenagers like has very little overlap with the bulk of gamers elsewhere in the world.
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Jan 9, 2014 01:49
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I downloaded the Bravely Default demo, started it up, opened the menu, looked at some jobs, closed my 3DS, and took a nap. I just don't know if I like old-fashioned job systems anymore…
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Jan 9, 2014 03:07
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Mustach posted:I downloaded the Bravely Default demo, started it up, opened the menu, looked at some jobs, closed my 3DS, and took a nap. I just don't know if I like old-fashioned job systems anymore… It's a lot to take in all at once, especially with no tutorial telling you what anything does, but it's not that bad. And I don't even like FF5! I'm just worried it will get grindy trying to level up a job just to get one skill for another.
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Jan 9, 2014 03:16
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I beat everything in the Bravely Default demo, it's pretty much shot the game to the top of my must-have list. I don't have high hopes for the plot, but the gameplay was a lot of fun. The jobs seem to synergize well, except maybe Dark Mage and Freelancer, and the brave/default system is a great twist on turn-based combat. My biggest complaint would be that the last three bosses felt pretty similar, in terms of their attacks, so I hope the main game has more variation there. There was a good variety among normal enemies abilities, so that's promising.
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Jan 9, 2014 03:20
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Mustach posted:I downloaded the Bravely Default demo, started it up, opened the menu, looked at some jobs, closed my 3DS, and took a nap. I just don't know if I like old-fashioned job systems anymore…
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Jan 9, 2014 03:31
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Yeah, I'll probably try again soon; I was just surprised by my own reaction.
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Jan 9, 2014 03:34
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Zonko_T.M. posted:My biggest complaint would be that the last three bosses felt pretty similar, in terms of their attacks, so I hope the main game has more variation there. Oh, it does. The items that grant new jobs don't fall in your lap like in FF5, they're held by the bad guys and you have to beat them to take them from them. This means that for every job in the game, there is a boss that uses that job's abilities against you and you have to figure out how to deal with them.
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Jan 9, 2014 03:47
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Interview With FFX Writer Nojima What stuck out to me: quote:Famitsu asks who was the character he had the most trouble writing for. This explains why Selphie was the only likable character in FFVIII. Although Watanabe can't write any type of woman, cute or beautiful. XIII shows that.
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Jan 9, 2014 05:27
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"It's really hard writing something other than anime teenagers." -Kazushige Nojima
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