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BangersInMyKnickers posted:ECC without NMI is unacceptable for server applications, but I do not agree that is matters that much for home/gaming use. Even perfectly healthy dimms can bitflip occasionally and this will stop that from impacting you, as well as generally increasing overall reliability. Yeah, if you are losing a dimm then troubleshooting it will be a pain in the rear end but a memtest will generally turn it up eventually while reducing the likelihood of system problems being caused by ram. EDIT: Microsoft published a study in 2007 that showed that based on the information they'd gathered, even consumer PCs would benefit from having ECC in terms of reducing lost work/productivity, iirc. Google also published a paper showing that bitflips are much more common, and there's been other studies on the frequency of cosmic rays and how often they lead to system crashes. BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Nov 15, 2019 |
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Nov 15, 2019 23:41
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https://www.anandtech.com/show/15092/the-dell-xps-13-7390-2in1-review-the-ice-lake-cometh Ice Lake review in the wild. GPU performance roughly the same as Ryzen mobile, CPU performance tops every chart (they didnt compare it to the 8 core Comet Lake) despite having 800mhz to a fulll 1ghz deficit in clocks, and tops battery life. And for the actual shocker: you can order it and actually get one in a week. 10nm in the wild and actually purchasable by human beings. It finally happened.
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Nov 16, 2019 00:01
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Yeah I was at Microcenter a few days ago and they had the Ice Lake XPS13 out on display, ran Prime95 on it for fun.
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Nov 16, 2019 00:42
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That is a spicy $1700 laptop
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Nov 16, 2019 00:48
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Could make a fully passive desktop so easily with that chip.
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Nov 16, 2019 00:51
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XPS13s are pretty snazzy laptops I must say.
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Nov 16, 2019 01:30
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GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:Could make a fully passive desktop so easily with that chip. If/when Intel puts out a NUC I’m sure Akasa will make a passive chassis for it.
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Nov 16, 2019 02:27
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Another Ice Lake product in the wild, this is not how I expected the launch to go. https://www.walmart.com/ip/HP-14-Laptop-Intel-10th-Gen-Core-i3-1005G1-4GB-SDRAM-128GB-SSD-M-2-Pale-Gold-14-dq1038wm/247714372 I assume those are all defective quadcores that didn’t make it through binning. At least they have a working iGPU. Note the note customer price in Ark: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/196588/intel-core-i3-1005g1-processor-4m-cache-up-to-3-40-ghz.html
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Nov 17, 2019 06:59
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We still haven't seen any non-Goldmont CPUs with SHA Extensions, have we? EDIT: The news of a Comet Lake NUC just popped into my RSS feeds, so there's that. BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Nov 17, 2019 |
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Nov 17, 2019 13:03
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eames posted:Another Ice Lake product in the wild, this is not how I expected the launch to go. I'm curious if this model actually has the i3. I picked up one of the similar dq1033cl laptops because they've all been shipping with an i5-1035g4, which is a pretty hefty upgrade.
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Nov 18, 2019 07:15
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I scored an old office SFF dell for free that has an i3-3220 in it. I'm currently setting up an openmediavault NAS at home using my old old core 2 duo e8400. Is there a quick way to compare their performance as well as their likely power consumption? Just under average use. I'd assume the i3 has the e8400 beat in both cases, but I'd be interested to know by how much. Edit: uhh I think I just remembered userbenchmark.com exists. Edit2: doesn't delve into power, but much better into terms of performance. i think the i3 has the speed step thing which would again make it the better choice all round. hambeet fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Nov 22, 2019 |
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Nov 22, 2019 06:59
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hambeet posted:I scored an old office SFF dell for free that has an i3-3220 in it. I'm currently setting up an openmediavault NAS at home using my old old core 2 duo e8400. One way to compare power is just to look them up on Intel ARK. It lists TDP which isn't exactly how much power they'll use but it's not a bad general figure to go on and it offers a way to compare them, at least: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/65693/intel-core-i3-3220-processor-3m-cache-3-30-ghz.html https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/33910/intel-core-2-duo-processor-e8400-6m-cache-3-00-ghz-1333-mhz-fsb.html It lists the i3 at 55 Watts TDP and the Core 2 Duo at 65 Watts TDP. It's close, but I'd probably lean towards the i3 if you can fit all the drives you want into the SFF case. You could also put the sff motherboard into a normal case although it might take some modification.
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Nov 22, 2019 08:07
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hambeet posted:I scored an old office SFF dell for free that has an i3-3220 in it. I'm currently setting up an openmediavault NAS at home using my old old core 2 duo e8400. By a lot. i3-3220 is Ivy Bridge, aka 22nm. e8400 is 45nm. The i3 is two process nodes ahead, ~3-4 microarchitectures ahead (can't be hosed to look them all up for an exact count), and is clocked substantially faster. It will absolutely smoke an E8400. What Rexxed said about TDP being similar is true if both processors are running at max load, but the i3 will be able to reduce its power use under lighter loads much better than a C2D, so in practice you can expect the i3 to consume much less energy.
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Nov 22, 2019 09:01
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hambeet posted:I scored an old office SFF dell for free that has an i3-3220 in it. I'm currently setting up an openmediavault NAS at home using my old old core 2 duo e8400. The i3 is the far better cpu in all aspects
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Nov 22, 2019 10:10
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Here's a screenshot of Intel's Power Gadget showing the reading at idle for my Sandy Bridge i5 2400 (3.1GHz Quad Core, 95w TDP) This is loading it with Cinebench R15  I'm sure an Ivy Bridge would turn in even lower power consumption figures owing to being 22nm instead of 32nm This is using a discrete graphics card, a GDDR5 GT 1030. I imagine it would be higher if I were using the integrated graphics. Here's Core Temp's take, loading it very slightly here 
Vanagoon fucked around with this message at 10:29 on Nov 22, 2019 |
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Nov 22, 2019 10:27
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thanks all, tops info! so it does seem to be the case that the i3 slays the e8400 in both performance and power efficiency. good to know that i don't have to worry about plex transcoding my many, many copies of big buck bunny. the next puzzle will be moving it to an atx case and psu
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Nov 22, 2019 13:56
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Booted it today and it's actually an i3 2120. Still better than the e8400, just not the 3220 I was led to believe. Oh well it was free, I'm not complaining!
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Nov 22, 2019 23:54
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merp
SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 09:31 on Nov 25, 2019 |
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Nov 25, 2019 09:17
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 Roasted: https://youtu.be/vuaiqcjf0bsThe charts with the blurred out AMD results were pretty great.
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Nov 25, 2019 10:12
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Originally linked that, but I kind of felt like it was preaching to the choir. Ain't nobody here under the delusion that Intel somehow looks good doing this, right? ....RIGHT?
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Nov 25, 2019 10:36
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And those results are still before any future speculative execution exploits/mitigations. I feel like AMD is going to hike prices soon and Intel will have to cater to the value crowd very soon. How times change. 
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Nov 25, 2019 10:42
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SwissArmyDruid posted:Originally linked that, but I kind of felt like it was preaching to the choir. Ain't nobody here under the delusion that Intel somehow looks good doing this, right? Yeah, I agree, I was mostly just posting it for the comedy value, this sort of pathetic flailing from Intel is pretty drat funny.
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Nov 25, 2019 11:48
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SwissArmyDruid posted:Originally linked that, but I kind of felt like it was preaching to the choir. Ain't nobody here under the delusion that Intel somehow looks good doing this, right? paging paul maudib to the intel thread, paul maudib to the intel thread.
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Nov 25, 2019 16:44
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eames posted:And those results are still before any future speculative execution exploits/mitigations. I feel like AMD is going to hike prices soon and Intel will have to cater to the value crowd very soon. How times change. In HEDT they pretty much already have been relegated to the value option, considering they had to slash prices in half to compete. Cascade Lake exists if you need the specific combination of high ST performance and quad-channel RAM, it provides that cheaper than Threadripper. For pretty much any other combination of performance, you're better off with Ryzen 3000, Threadripper or regular desktop Intel.
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Nov 25, 2019 16:55
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:paging paul maudib to the intel thread, paul maudib to the intel thread. You invented a brand new sentence today.
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Nov 25, 2019 17:21
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Those TR3 benchmarks really do make it look pretty badass. It's kind of a bummer the gaming benchmark I saw at Anand had it using a 1080 for Gaming which pretty much immediately GPU bottlenecks almost all the benchmarks though. Still gaming isn't of course the focus of these chips but man seeing them be able to pretty much mop the floor with Intel in all but the AVX-512 benchmark shows AMD is finally solidly back. It's the AMD 64 vs P4 days all over again lol. Will be interesting to see how Intel can return fire, and if a Pricing war can actually happen in HEDT.
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Nov 25, 2019 20:32
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That’s the problem, I think the gap between Intel and AMD is widening too quickly to really cause a pricing war. Level1 Techs streamed an interesting video interview with Dr. Ian Cutress yesterday where he mentioned that a vendor who put a 2x56 Core Intel server up for display at a supercomputer conference “didn’t expect to sell any of these”. He also claimed that X86 patents up to (or including?) AVX-2 are going to expire next year which could lead to some interesting results (I’m thinking Apple, perhaps Google and Microsoft, etc). The Level 1 tech guy strikes me as somewhat AMD biased but Dr. Cutress balanced that out nicely. It’s worth listening to in the background.
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Nov 26, 2019 12:14
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That is exactly what I am afraid of. Intel has been so stagnant for so long AMD is going to just wiz by while they work on that 10nm mess they bet the farm on. Will definitely be interesting to see if some other hats join the ring though.
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Nov 26, 2019 21:55
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EdEddnEddy posted:That is exactly what I am afraid of. Intel has been so stagnant for so long AMD is going to just wiz by while they work on that 10nm mess they bet the farm on. Intel has enough momentum to stay afloat, if AMD managed it Intel will too. More viable products is good for everyone. (except the CEO's bank account)
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Nov 26, 2019 22:08
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EdEddnEddy posted:That is exactly what I am afraid of. Intel has been so stagnant for so long AMD is going to just wiz by while they work on that 10nm mess they bet the farm on.
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Nov 26, 2019 22:28
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Cygni posted:I know it seems that way if you read enthusiast forums, but the real world is pretty drastically different. The home builder market is shifting to AMD, if it hasn't already. The OEM desktop, laptop, workstation, and server market is still Intel, but the cracks are showing. AMD's new offerings in the last two markets are better than Intel's, and Intel has the unfortunate task of playing damage control with all the vulnerabilities that are still coming out today. So yes, Intel still has the lead, but their advantage has eroded badly.
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Nov 26, 2019 23:19
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Steam survey has AMD at 19+%, up 4% over a couple years ago and likely to climb as old i5s get retired.
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Nov 27, 2019 00:00
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iospace posted:The home builder market is shifting to AMD, if it hasn't already. The OEM desktop, laptop, workstation, and server market is still Intel, but the cracks are showing. AMD's new offerings in the last two markets are better than Intel's, and Intel has the unfortunate task of playing damage control with all the vulnerabilities that are still coming out today. Oh for sure... but lets not get ahead of ourselves. Intel spends more on R&D in one quarter than AMD has made in profit... ever. Since they've been a company. Combined. They posted more in pure profit last quarter than AMD posted in all sales last year. They increased 14nm production by 20-30% over the last year and are still production constrained. Intel's 14nm has been the most profitable node in computing history. This is a very big company with very deep pockets and very robust order books. I'm not afraid of Intel turning into Bulldozer-era AMD as far as the competitive balance goes, is what im saying. If anything, I think we are coming to another golden age. Right now, Intel has competitive stuff in the DIY space but hasn't really felt the need to go to bat on pricing since they've been wafer limited anyway. If AMD can turn the heat up a little more (im not even hoping for 2006 levels, thats a bridge too far), that might change. It obviously already has in HEDT.
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Nov 27, 2019 00:31
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Yeah, no kidding. AMD has been putting out some great products, but Q4 18 still saw a 10% rise in revenue for Intel compared to Q4 17, and they're operating at close to a 30% profit margin compared to AMD's ~8%. Intel ain't going anywhere, and can afford to make very aggressive pricing moves, as we've already seen. Honestly, this is great for consumers. AMD is unlikely to continue to punch Intel in the face for very long, but resetting the price points for entire lineups that Intel has been milking for years is real nice to see. E; also, no, no one else is going to join the ring. The barrier to entry is amazingly high at this point, and major players have been exiting the bleeding edge space, not entering it. The only way we'd see new competitors would be if a current one split/divested for some reason, or if China decided they'd finally stolen enough tech from everyone else to set up their own shops. DrDork fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Nov 27, 2019 |
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Nov 27, 2019 01:02
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This is all a clear cut win for consumers. No doubts. Intel has some weight to throw around and AMD is finally forcing them to compete. Now if only AMD could do the same to Nvidia...
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Nov 27, 2019 02:03
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Calipark posted:This is all a clear cut win for consumers. No doubts. Intel has some weight to throw around and AMD is finally forcing them to compete. The GPU area has been hosed forever. I bought an r9 290 for $210 in 2014 and so far as I can tell performance per dollar has been flat for 5 years after. Even CPUs have shown way more gain than that.
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Nov 27, 2019 02:10
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Twerk from Home posted:The GPU area has been hosed forever. I bought an r9 290 for $210 in 2014 and so far as I can tell performance per dollar has been flat for 5 years after. Even CPUs have shown way more gain than that. It was flat for a couple of years there (around the coin boom), but 8GB 580s launched around that price in 2017 for a 25% performance boost and now 1660 Supers offer a 70% starting at $210. It's not like the 2000s, but it certainly hasn't been flat for 5 years.
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Nov 27, 2019 02:39
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This isn't even as bad as P4 vs. Athlon 64.
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Nov 27, 2019 03:45
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The latest GPU releases from Nvidia like the 1650 Super and 1660 Super are good perf/$ just released like a year or more later than they would be in a real competitive environment.
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Nov 27, 2019 04:11
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FuturePastNow posted:This isn't even as bad as P4 vs. Athlon 64. In the consumer space, yes the gap isn't that great. In the server market, Intel is only staying afloat with institutional momentum. Epyc chips beat them out on performance and cost pretty much across the board.
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