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Uber now claims to have stricter background checks and maintenance inspections in Canada than Toronto does. Taking that claim at face value, we're just left with these minor problems:infernal machines posted:Now we're just down to exploitative labour practices that move the entire cost of operating to the "contractor", who can't set their rates. If Uber just wanted to be a legal alternative to traditional dispatchers or provide a flexible pool of legally licensed temporary drivers in periods of high demand (instead of just gouging customers with inflated surge pricing) then I doubt anyone would have serious problems with them. Flaunting the law openly and then sending hordes of lobbyists to get your way isn't something that should be encouraged. Hell, even the backasswards Toronto city council managed to loosen regulations on food trucks and non-hot dog selling food carts after enough badgering, although their solution to the latter issue was a spectacular failure (surprise).
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Jul 10, 2016 09:20
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eXXon posted:(instead of just gouging customers with inflated surge pricing) Of all the criticisms to level at Uber (and there are a lot of legitimate ones) surge pricing/price gouging is probably one of the worst. Uber is really cheap compared to cabs, and remains so even with moderate surge pricing. When surge pricing is high, it's typically impossible to find a cab, making comparisons pretty much meaningless. Moreover surge pricing is a clear and sensible economic response to lack of supply on the driver side.
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Jul 10, 2016 10:52
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Surge pricing is a loving scam and I cannot believe you are defending it.
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Jul 10, 2016 11:07
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It's not a scam, it's a way to separate impatient people from their money. If you're impatient and want to pay, it's a very good thing compared to having to waiting in a queue.
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Jul 10, 2016 13:36
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PT6A posted:It's not a scam, it's a way to separate impatient people from their money. If you're impatient and want to pay, it's a very good thing compared to having to waiting in a queue. What about the huge surge pricing issue that happened for example during the Sydney hostage crisis in 2014? Were those people wanting to flee just impatient and needing to be taken advantage of?
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Jul 10, 2016 13:42
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What are my legs for holy poo poo you expect me to use these????
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Jul 10, 2016 14:04
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CLAM DOWN posted:What about the huge surge pricing issue that happened for example during the Sydney hostage crisis in 2014? Were those people wanting to flee just impatient and needing to be taken advantage of? IMO, it's pretty unethical if you're already in the area to charge people if you're driving them away, but assuming surge pricing was used to convince drivers to actually go into what may have been a dangerous situation and drive people away, thus increasing the supply, I think it was essentially worthwhile. If the option is between surge pricing and no availability whatsoever, surge pricing is trivially preferable.
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Jul 10, 2016 14:11
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CLAM DOWN posted:What about the huge surge pricing issue that happened for example during the Sydney hostage crisis in 2014? Were those people wanting to flee just impatient and needing to be taken advantage of? The free market determined an efficient price for their lives problem solved.
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Jul 10, 2016 14:19
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surge pricing is the modern equivalent of crassus forcing people whos property is on fire to sell it.
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Jul 10, 2016 15:09
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Hmm, yes, people wanting to pay extra to get home faster right at closing time or another very busy time is exactly the same as that. Are you insane?
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Jul 10, 2016 15:21
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Uber didn't turn out so poorly for anyone but its employees, but this kind of Silicon Valley "disregard rules and regulations and muscle in with money, lawyers, and market share" "disruption" poo poo needs to be cracked down on or else you can get things that can actually hurt consumers like Theranos.
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Jul 10, 2016 16:22
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pt6a's opinions on uber and its pricing and its business model:posting::dogshit filled with worms baked in the sun and then set on fire:food
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Jul 10, 2016 16:34
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terrorist ambulance posted:pt6a's opinions on uber and its pricing and its business model:posting::dogshit filled with worms baked in the sun and then set on fire:food We should all be so lucky as to have the privilege of waiting two hours on a cab that may or may not show up because it's a busy night. Maybe if we wait three hours, we will get one with brakes that work.
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Jul 10, 2016 16:38
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Here's a good idea: if you don't want to use Uber, then don't use Uber. If you don't want to pay surge pricing, then don't accept a ride when it's in effect. How are they scamming you by not providing a timely service at exactly the price you want to pay?
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Jul 10, 2016 16:42
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CLAM DOWN posted:What about the huge surge pricing issue that happened for example during the Sydney hostage crisis in 2014? Were those people wanting to flee just impatient and needing to be taken advantage of? Uber refunded the money after that incident
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Jul 10, 2016 17:09
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CLAM DOWN posted:What about the huge surge pricing issue that happened for example during the Sydney hostage crisis in 2014? Were those people wanting to flee just impatient and needing to be taken advantage of? The surge pricing was lovely, but the alternative to surge pricing isn't everyone paying regular rates to flee. It's people getting stuck because there aren't enough drivers.
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Jul 10, 2016 17:13
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Oh look, somebody with extra money thinks its completely logical that they should have the right to jump to the front of the line. What a shock.
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Jul 10, 2016 17:29
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Can't wait for UberCare where if too many people are getting hip replacements you can just surge price your way to a million dollar procedure.
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Jul 10, 2016 17:33
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PT6A posted:Here's a good idea: if you don't want to use Uber, then don't use Uber. If you don't want to pay surge pricing, then don't accept a ride when it's in effect. How are they scamming you by not providing a timely service at exactly the price you want to pay? Do you honestly not see an issue with their business model and method of operating?
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Jul 10, 2016 17:47
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CLAM DOWN posted:Do you honestly not see an issue with their business model and method of operating? The answer is always no, its what benefits him not society. Its a clear through line in his thousands and thousand of poo poo posts and white noise.
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Jul 10, 2016 17:54
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Speaking of uber.
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Jul 10, 2016 18:09
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Jul 10, 2016 18:10
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Helsing posted:Oh look, somebody with extra money thinks its completely logical that they should have the right to jump to the front of the line. What a shock. Yes. One can argue it's extremely unethical for things like medical care or if it's necessary to ration food, but why on earth shouldn't people who are willing and able to pay the money receive preferential access to non-essential goods and services like Uber? You already must have a credit card and a smartphone to use it, but suddenly surge pricing is a bridge too far? Again: these are services that are non-essential. No one needs to take an Uber, ever, and they do not have a monopoly on personal transportation. Why shouldn't they be allowed to set their prices however they like? EDIT: I could hire a limousine for $250/hour if I wanted, which would be more expensive than most examples of surge pricing as far as I'm aware. Is it unethical of limousine operators to charge that much? If not, why is it suddenly problematic when Uber does it? CLAM DOWN posted:Do you honestly not see an issue with their business model and method of operating? What issue do you see with surge pricing? I don't see one, other than drunks getting an unpleasant bill in the morning because they were too wasted to refuse surge pricing and/or too stupid to do math, and frankly I find that hilarious and good -- some driver deserves that payday, and maybe it'll teach people to not get incoherently drunk in the future.
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Jul 10, 2016 18:10
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PT6A posted:Yes. One can argue it's extremely unethical for things like medical care or if it's necessary to ration food, but why on earth shouldn't people who are willing and able to pay the money receive preferential access to non-essential goods and services like Uber? You already must have a credit card and a smartphone to use it, but suddenly surge pricing is a bridge too far? A major player like uber will reshape the markets that it enters. Toronto City Council has already changed regulations so that the taxi companies would be free to use surge charging if they wished -- the cab companies made a strategic decision to take a stand on surge pricing but thanks to uber its now an option for them. So already in it's short span of existence we can see uber shifting the rest of the market toward its model. Spare us this childish libertarian screed about how people can just choose to abstain from using the service -- the purpose of a comapny like uber is to corner a market. They are going to do everything in their power to make sure that uber is the most convenient, or indeed the only available, choice. I'm not saying they'll succeed in this goal but that's generally the objective of a company in a situation like this: make everyone depend on your service. Nobody sets out to try and compete on a level playing field, the goal is always to skew things in your favour as much as you can get away with. So we as consumers are justified in trying to regulate firms like uber to ensure their market-power doesn't allow them to completely screw us. Someone could use exactly the argument you're making and apply it against net neutrality laws. The problem is your atomistic framework in which you only look at individual transactions and doesn't take into account the way that large players will reshape the overall playing field itself. Consumers and governments need to actively and judiciously intervene to shape and reshape market transactions so that regular people can afford to continue participating in regular society without getting gouged.
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Jul 10, 2016 19:05
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Ikantski posted:Speaking of uber. The prison farms that prisoners and their advocates saw as very helpful rehabilitation tools that made prison more liveable. Quite different.
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Jul 10, 2016 19:08
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The state has alloted you three handsom cab rides this quarter, comrade. It has also outlawed youtube red, first class travel, sporting events, and all textiles softer than burlap.
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Jul 10, 2016 19:13
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Fluffy Chainsaw posted:The state has alloted you three handsom cab rides this quarter, comrade. It has also outlawed youtube red, first class travel, sporting events, and all textiles softer than burlap. This is the kind of poo poo that seemed really profound and philosophically exciting when I was 18 years old and every political principle had to be carried out ruthlessly and to whatever would seem to be its most complete and dire logical conclusion. After spending some time living in the real world and recognizing that everything in real life is a muddled compromise it just starts to seem like one of those spurious games that academics and pundits invent to try and remain relevant. Nobody is saying we must all wear grey and eat gruel so we can be the same. But uber, specifically, is another example of technology being used to let rich people que jump. It's a lovely trend which is visible in all kinds of different ways and I've seen how its impacted certain friends and relatives who don't have a lot of money. Those of us who are comparatively well off don't necessarily appreciate just how lovely and expensive life has become for a growing part of society. Proactively regulating industry so that everyone can expect a certain baseline of service at a stable and recognized price isn't some kind of insane bolshevik scheme, it's something we do in all kinds of different realms of economic activity and we often simply take it for granted, to the point we don't even recognize that it's happening.
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Jul 10, 2016 19:19
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Uber is bad but surge pricing is not why it is bad. Variable rate pricing is standard practice in pretty much every industry.
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Jul 10, 2016 19:20
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Arivia posted:The prison farms that prisoners and their advocates saw as very helpful rehabilitation tools that made prison more liveable. Quite different. There is still a very strong public sentiment about the prison farms here in Kingston - closing them was wildly unpopular and I'd be thrilled to see them back. They were good for the prisoners, good for local business (the abattoir in particular was a big boon to local cattle farmers,) and to a lot of people the closure was just petty. Not actually based on any kind of policy, just a "no you are bad boys and have done bad things so no more cows for you."
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Jul 10, 2016 19:25
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angerbeet posted:There is still a very strong public sentiment about the prison farms here in Kingston - closing them was wildly unpopular and I'd be thrilled to see them back. They were good for the prisoners, good for local business (the abattoir in particular was a big boon to local cattle farmers,) and to a lot of people the closure was just petty. Not actually based on any kind of policy, just a "no you are bad boys and have done bad things so no more cows for you." There's a good documentary about the farms / the closing called Til the Cows Come Home. It's available to watch here: http://www.prisonfarmfilm.org/
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Jul 10, 2016 19:30
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Helsing posted:This is the kind of poo poo that seemed really profound and philosophically exciting when I was 18 years old and every political principle had to be carried out ruthlessly and to whatever would seem to be its most complete and dire logical conclusion. After spending some time living in the real world and recognizing that everything in real life is a muddled compromise it just starts to seem like one of those spurious games that academics and pundits invent to try and remain relevant. Congratulations comrade, your defense of the planned economy has resulted in you being rewarded with an additional 0.5 rides this quarter. Protip. Reducing the cost of goods and services is a net positive for economically disadvantaged individuals. Poor people have access to a wide swathe of consumer goods that even ten years ago were relegated to the wealthy.
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Jul 10, 2016 19:40
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sure wages have stagnated for 40 years, but you have so much more to buy!!!!!
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Jul 10, 2016 19:46
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JawKnee posted:sure wages have stagnated for 40 years, but you have so much more to buy!!!!! Now I go into debt a little bit slower during my unpaid internship, what a success story
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Jul 10, 2016 19:52
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JawKnee posted:sure wages have stagnated for 40 years, but you have so much more to buy!!!!! Those poors should just give up on owning things eh? Things were better when they had to wash things by hand.
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Jul 10, 2016 19:54
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Fluffy Chainsaw posted:Those poors should just give up on owning things eh? Things were better when they had to wash things by hand. give up? Why sir you can over-leverage yourself just fine. Pay no attention to the crushing inequality in the system - you need this new phlogeston regulator or your life isn't worth living
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Jul 10, 2016 19:57
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Helsing posted:Someone could use exactly the argument you're making and apply it against net neutrality laws. Internet is essentially a necessary part of participation in modern society, whereas the ability to summon personal transportation at your convenience is not. If surge pricing were applied to public transit, I agree it would be a very bad thing, but on-demand personal transportation is already a luxury good, and given its negative externalities, should continue to be considered as a luxury good, just like all private vehicle use is (in cities, at least). EDIT: I also love the inherent contradiction between "Uber treats drivers like poo poo, that's bad" (that's true, by the way) and "Uber should under no circumstances be allowed to pay its drivers more if it chooses!" (that's ridiculous). PT6A fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Jul 10, 2016 |
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Jul 10, 2016 19:58
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PT6A posted:Internet is essentially a necessary part of participation in modern society, whereas the ability to summon personal transportation at your convenience is not. If surge pricing were applied to public transit, I agree it would be a very bad thing, but on-demand personal transportation is already a luxury good, and given its negative externalities, should continue to be considered as a luxury good, just like all private vehicle use is (in cities, at least). Sorry to break this to you but Uber's next big strategic move is to get cities to sign contracts doing things like eliminating free buspasses for the poor and giving them Uber subsidies instead so they're actively attacking public transportation in hopes of increasing their market share using public money. Can't wait for UberBus to sign a contract with the TTC where if your bus is more than half full your fare doubles!
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Jul 10, 2016 21:01
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CLAM DOWN posted:Surge pricing is a loving scam and I cannot believe you are defending it. I've taken hundreds of Uber/Lyft rides over the last three years or so. In that time I'd say only a handful (definitely < 10) have been surge pricing over 2x. In many cases Uber is less than half the cost of a cab anyways so it's not like even 2x is a big deal. I don't own a car, almost never take public transit, and I only spend 1-2k a year on ridesharing services. By a large margin, the most I've ever paid for an Uber ride/in surge pricing was $180 at 3.5x. This was a trip to the South Bay for a job interview (for my current job), during a week where one of the two largest software conferences of the year were happening and it was literally impossible to get cabs. Because of surge pricing, I still had a car waiting for me about 2 minutes after hailing it. This is the system working. In comparison, when I was a student in Vancouver I remember waiting 60 minutes to catch a cab downtown on Halloween and the rear end in a top hat cabbie charging me non-meter rates because my destination wasn't where he wanted to be heading towards. I'll take surge pricing over that any day of the week.
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Jul 10, 2016 21:07
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vyelkin posted:Sorry to break this to you but Uber's next big strategic move is to get cities to sign contracts doing things like eliminating free buspasses for the poor and giving them Uber subsidies instead so they're actively attacking public transportation in hopes of increasing their market share using public money. Can't wait for UberBus to sign a contract with the TTC where if your bus is more than half full your fare doubles! That's really lovely and a good example of how Uber is poo poo but not an example of how surge pricing is bad.
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Jul 10, 2016 21:12
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blah_blah posted:the rear end in a top hat cabbie charging me non-meter rates because my destination wasn't where he wanted to be heading towards. This is illegal, maybe be assertive and stand up for yourself?
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Jul 10, 2016 21:17
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