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I was the former and was willing to take way less than the hr person offered. In fact I said a number that was 16k below their minimum range, and she said "oh no our baseline is this", I assume because she quit two weeks later that she only did that to STICK IT TO THE MAN or something. Because at the time I had exactly thirty six dollars left and would have taken anything, and now a year later I'm super glad I didn't. I was happy to have a job and getting paid, but that wore off a couple months later when poo poo got hard.
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Dec 14, 2017 00:16
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As someone still making $8 an hour I will take any job that doesn't leave me covered in food grease or dog poo poo. I'm currently building a webapp for the animal shelter that I work at in the hopes of ever not working animal care and food service.
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Dec 14, 2017 00:21
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Welp that guy just messaged me and said I didn’t have enough experience anyway 
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Dec 14, 2017 00:29
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Vincent Valentine posted:I was the former and was willing to take way less than the hr person offered. In fact I said a number that was 16k below their minimum range, and she said "oh no our baseline is this", I assume because she quit two weeks later that she only did that to STICK IT TO THE MAN or something. Because at the time I had exactly thirty six dollars left and would have taken anything, and now a year later I'm super glad I didn't.
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Dec 14, 2017 16:20
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Maybe there are good companies out there where part of HR's performance is measured by reduction of turnover
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Dec 14, 2017 19:27
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I'm in a bit of a pickle. I work a part-time job as a software dev while studying software engineering, but I just failed out of uni due to spreading myself to thin and prioritizing/distributing my time poorly. I'm fairly certain I could land a full-time job at my workplace without finishing my degree, and am probably gonna angle for that while I get my poo poo together enough that I feel ready to finish a degree. My question is; how do I best negotiate salary in this situation? I'm about a semester's worth of classes short of actually earning a bachelor's, and I have a good idea through my union what the starting salary is for people with that degree, and I'm at about that level of competency plus the experience I already have working for the company. Do I start out with the value supplied by my union, or do I subtract something for the fact that I don't have the diploma? Or do I start higher? I'm not really sure what value the piece of paper would have for an employer.
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Dec 14, 2017 21:17
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Don't subtract anything yourself because your employer will always be happy to do it for you
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Dec 15, 2017 00:21
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rt4 posted:Don't subtract anything yourself because your employer will always be happy to do it for you This.
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Dec 15, 2017 01:29
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rt4 posted:Don't subtract anything yourself because your employer will always be happy to do it for you On this topic: if the employer specifically says that your asking salary is what they pay their senior people and they're not so sure that your experience is sufficient for that salary level... does this still apply and take the chance of them passing you up? Because what if they're not lying?
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Dec 15, 2017 01:53
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Love Stole the Day posted:On this topic: if the employer specifically says that your asking salary is what they pay their senior people and they're not so sure that your experience is sufficient for that salary level... does this still apply and take the chance of them passing you up? Because what if they're not lying? "I've done this type of work for N years and Glassdoor says people with my skillset get paid $X. I understand that not everyone is able to match the market rate, since that's how averages work. In light of this, what do you think is appropriate for my level of experience?" They want to hire you. Make them sweat a little for it and you'll get paid more (even if not as much as you'd like) and they'll treat you with more respect as an employee.
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Dec 15, 2017 01:59
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Alright, thanks. I'll just start out with the recommended starting salary for B.Sc.s and see where it takes me. They do know that my options are limited since I haven't finished my degree, but hopefully they won't offer too far below the ask. I'm pretty I'd accept 2/3rds of it, with the caveat that as soon as I'm offered something else I'd take it.
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Dec 15, 2017 02:18
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rt4 posted:Maybe there are good companies out there where part of HR's performance is measured by reduction of turnover They're supposed to. Or rather, in terms that HR understands, they should be making sure that potential productivity eclipses any training costs incurred by the new hire. But HR understands little about new hires taking potentially months to get up to speed on the codebase before they can be productive. Or, on the other side of things, why the person who maintains all the drat legacy code doesn't seem to actually do much.
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Dec 15, 2017 02:39
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Someone HR will approve any old salary as long as it’s in the band. When I was (briefly) working at Optum my boss gave me the salary bands, and told me that he can get anything basically middlish. Too low and HR will ask why bother hiring him, and too high and HR will ask why he’s not being hired in the next role up. Anything in the middle is an auto-yes.
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Dec 15, 2017 02:44
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Joda posted:Alright, thanks. I'll just start out with the recommended starting salary for B.Sc.s and see where it takes me. They do know that my options are limited since I haven't finished my degree, but hopefully they won't offer too far below the ask. I'm pretty I'd accept 2/3rds of it, with the caveat that as soon as I'm offered something else I'd take it. Try to work in something related to completing the degree - if that seems reasonable to you. A big part of the ongoing employment process is achieving goals. If that can be incorporated in your performance evaluations AND the company can pay for it, then that could be a win-win for everyone. Assuming that is something you want to do.
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Dec 15, 2017 02:49
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Yeah, and that's definitely something to work into your response any time they ask about your plans for the future.
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Dec 15, 2017 02:55
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Love Stole the Day posted:On this topic: if the employer specifically says that your asking salary is what they pay their senior people and they're not so sure that your experience is sufficient for that salary level... does this still apply and take the chance of them passing you up? Because what if they're not lying? Listen, you have to understand that regardless of your level of programming experience, the people you're talking with have vastly more experience negotiating compensation packages than you do. They're going to take whatever number you give them and try to bargain you down using whatever tactic they think will work well. Because you're an engineer and prone to underestimating your skill level (we all do it), casting doubt on your experience is probably an excellent and time-tested tactic. You can respond a number of ways, but unless you threw out your minimum number first (and if you did, you already done hosed up), you don't have to present this as, "if you don't pay me at least this then I walk." In situations like you describe, I favor something along the lines of, "I do believe I'm worth this amount, but if you have concerns I'm sure we can still reach an agreement we're both happy with." As rt4 said, if they're making offers then they want to hire you. They aren't going to walk away because your number is higher than they want to pay unless they're consummate idiots, they're going to make you a counter offer. Anecdote: During my last hiring when I gave a number, the guy raised his eyebrows and asked me in a skeptical tone, "how many years of experience do you have?" I told him, he responded, "you think that's worth that much?" and my response was "absolutely." They didn't accept that number in the end, but they didn't laugh me out of the building for being confident either. Che Delilas fucked around with this message at 10:14 on Dec 15, 2017 |
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Dec 15, 2017 10:11
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Joda posted:I'm in a bit of a pickle. I work a part-time job as a software dev while studying software engineering, but I just failed out of uni due to spreading myself to thin and prioritizing/distributing my time poorly. I'm fairly certain I could land a full-time job at my workplace without finishing my degree, and am probably gonna angle for that while I get my poo poo together enough that I feel ready to finish a degree. There's a union for software developers?
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Dec 15, 2017 13:06
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fantastic in plastic posted:There's a union for software developers? I'm assuming he's living somewhere that isn't the US (or the UK). Unions-for-everything is a thing in some European countries.
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Dec 15, 2017 13:45
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fantastic in plastic posted:There's a union for software developers? It's a sort of catch-all engineering union. They don't have collective bargaining contracts or anything like that, but they provide stuff like salary statistics, will answer questions about and evaluate your employment contract before you sign and provide legal help if poo poo hits the fan. And yeah, this is non-US/UK
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Dec 15, 2017 14:47
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Must be nice.
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Dec 15, 2017 18:41
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I'm not complaining. Do voluntary unions just not exist in the US/UK? I can understand the powers that be would want to suppress unions for lower-wage workers due to collective bargaining being a thorn in their side (and they can stop the formation by making collective bargaining/strikes illegal,) but what's stopping people from having an organisation of employees in similar fields that you pay $100-200 a year or so to handle when employers are lovely, and providing references for negotiations and stuff?
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Dec 15, 2017 19:23
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Magically getting fired for "no reason". That's what's stopping people. Also general lack of education. If you've had a minimum wage job in the US, you were probably shown anti-union propaganda as part of your orientation.
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Dec 15, 2017 19:26
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1. You will get fired for trying to unionize. 2. Insane libertarianism has infected the tech sector.
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Dec 15, 2017 19:27
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Can we just not have the union argument again?
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Dec 15, 2017 19:39
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Joda posted:I'm not complaining. Do voluntary unions just not exist in the US/UK? I can understand the powers that be would want to suppress unions for lower-wage workers due to collective bargaining being a thorn in their side (and they can stop the formation by making collective bargaining/strikes illegal,) but what's stopping people from having an organisation of employees in similar fields that you pay $100-200 a year or so to handle when employers are lovely, and providing references for negotiations and stuff? The Fool posted:Can we just not have the union argument again?
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Dec 15, 2017 19:40
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Who's arguing?
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Dec 15, 2017 19:40
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Sorry, I was just curious. Didn't know it was A Thing in this thread.
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Dec 15, 2017 19:50
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It’s a thing in all of the tech career threads. There a people that have strong opinions on all sides of the argument, and no one is going to be changing their minds anytime soon, so let’s just not ruin the next 3 pages with union garbage, and instead ruin them with bad salary negotiation advice.
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Dec 15, 2017 20:05
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The Fool posted:There a people that have strong opinions on all sides of the argument, and no one is going to be changing their minds anytime soon right, unlike all those other subjects
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Dec 15, 2017 20:07
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Everybody join the union and we'll all go on strike until net neutrality becomes policy again
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Dec 15, 2017 20:09
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rt4 posted:Everybody join the union and we'll all go on strike until net neutrality becomes policy again I'm onboard. Where do I send my union fees?
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Dec 15, 2017 20:22
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Cue inevitable schism over whether or not to accept BitCoin
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Dec 15, 2017 20:24
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I motion to bikeshed over union membership and FizzBuzz implementations.
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Dec 15, 2017 20:30
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I'll √-2nd that motion
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Dec 15, 2017 20:49
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It sounds like the only thing left is choosing a Union Leader. Naturally, I'll fill that position, and my demands for salary are $650K/year. I've taken the liberty of working out the pay scales No Degree 1-3 yr/experience: $35K 4-7 yr $45K 7+ yr $55K Bachelors 1-3 yr/experience: $75K 4-7 yr $85K 7+ yr $110K Masters or higher 1-3 yr/experience: $85K 4-7 yr $95K 7+ yr $120K At 7 years at a given company, you achieve tenure, and can only be fired in the event of gross misconduct or criminal activity. Note, union dues are mandatory, and will be automatically deducted from your paycheck if you work in one of our covered professions (defined as having a StackOverflow tag associated with it.) The union dues are 5% of your yearly pay.
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Dec 15, 2017 21:11
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I swear you work in the HR department of a company I interviewed with.
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Dec 15, 2017 21:21
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We'll need a treasurer. I volunteer.
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Dec 15, 2017 21:48
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B-Nasty posted:It sounds like the only thing left is choosing a Union Leader. Naturally, I'll fill that position, and my demands for salary are $650K/year. to non-americans: this is no-poo poo what americans are told unions are like
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Dec 15, 2017 22:02
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Wait, is that supposed to be bad? That sounds like a sweet deal to me... Edit: except for the union leader salary, obviously.
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Dec 15, 2017 22:09
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At least if we talk about unions, people will have an outside chance of using "Right to Work" correctly.
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Dec 15, 2017 22:38
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