Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

sbaldrick: Jul 19, 2006; Driven by Hate

PT6A posted:

No poo poo. What the gently caress is going on out there? Prices in Calgary are a bit inflated, but it wasn't spiralling wildly out of control in nearly the same way, even when the economy was strong.

It's also in one of the nice neighbourhoods in the city that was pretty yuppy even in the 80's.

Of course the major difference is my parents had Buick's rather then the S-classes you'd have today and our neighbourhood was an RCMP Sargent

# ? Nov 10, 2015 21:40

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# ? May 31, 2024 11:07

McGavin: Sep 18, 2012

PT6A posted:

No poo poo. What the gently caress is going on out there? Prices in Calgary are a bit inflated, but it wasn't spiralling wildly out of control in nearly the same way, even when the economy was strong.

Anything that gets sold for over $1 million is almost definitely going to a Chinese buyer.

# ? Nov 10, 2015 21:49

Lexicon: Jul 29, 2003; I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.

McGavin posted:

Anything that gets sold for over $1 million is almost definitely going to a Chinese buyer.

I dunno... all this Ladner chat suggests that $1M is the new $500k.

# ? Nov 10, 2015 21:55

ocrumsprug: Sep 23, 2010; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Lexicon posted:

I dunno... all this Ladner chat suggests that $1M is the new $500k.

When the CMHC made the change to only insure purchases under a million, it bifurcated the market pretty quickly.

My wife and I could probably 20% down (or less) a $950K Delta home, but a $1.2M East Van hovel would require something* quite a bit more than we could swing in order for the bank to not laugh at us.

e: * If we we had sold a previous property that had seen 200% appreciation that would probably cover it.

# ? Nov 10, 2015 22:11

the talent deficit: Dec 20, 2003; self-deprecation is a very british trait, and problems can arise when the british attempt to do so with a foreign culture

McGavin posted:

Anything that gets sold for over $1 million is almost definitely going to a Chinese buyer.

Nah. Chinese immigration is still mostly a Vancouver/Richmond/North Burnaby thing. The suburban bubble is all people who cashed in on their East Van rancher and people terrified into overextending by the buy now or be priced out forever crowd.

# ? Nov 10, 2015 23:06

Rime: Nov 2, 2011; by Games Forum

McGavin posted:

Canada's housing market faces a looming demographic bubble

Who will be able to afford the pricey homes currently owned by disappearing boomers?

The CBC finally picks up the whistle that I was blowing in this thread three loving years ago.

# ? Nov 10, 2015 23:25

CRISPYBABY: Dec 15, 2007; by Reene

PT6A posted:

If y'all get excited about going to Chinook, I'll admit I'm wrong. I avoid that godforsaken shithole like the plague. I plan each necessary visit precisely, and execute every plan to get me the gently caress out of there as soon as possible. Awful, awful place...

My favourite part about Chinook is the train station that acts as a time-warp to 2005 where scene kids still exist and loiter everywhere.

# ? Nov 10, 2015 23:30

B33rChiller: Aug 18, 2011

I saw That Burning Feeling on tv last night. Holy poo poo, John Cho's character is pure distilled Vancouver.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 02:40

Femtosecond: Aug 2, 2003

Baronjutter posted:

I only know Ladner as a depressing middle of nowhere garbage suburb that the bus from the ferry has to pointlessly detour through so at the absolute maximum 2 people can get on or off the standing-room-only articulated bus. I hate that detour and I hate that town.

Middle of nowhere for now. Wait until the province rams the $3 billion+ 10 lane bridge down our throats, paves the ALR, and lets developers go hog wild.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 04:20

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-10/canada-housing-agency-to-collect-more-data-on-foreign-ownership

quote:

Canada Housing Agency Cites Foreign Buyer Risk, to Collect Data

Canada�s housing agency is considering ways to collect more data on foreign investment as home prices continue to surge in Toronto and Vancouver.

"It�s clear that we need to capture more detailed information on foreign investment, to better inform the Canadian government and housing market participants," Evan Siddall, chief executive officer of the Canada Mortgage & Housing Corp., said in the text of a speech delivered in Toronto Tuesday. "A lack of accurate and reliable data makes it difficult to determine if or how foreign investment may be affecting the market. Most of the available information is anecdotal. And the problem is that many foreign investors may prefer to hide their ownership."

Foreign money may be more likely to leave a market quickly, increasing volatility, he said. Options the Ottawa-based agency is considering include getting information from local realtors, developers and land registry offices on annual residential sales to foreign buyers for homes and condominium units. The agency already surveys property managers about how many of their units are owned by foreign buyers.

Siddall also highlighted the potential risks of foreign money in the country�s housing sector. He said it�s "very possible" offshore buyers make up a "substantial portion" of the demand for high-end luxury homes in Vancouver and Toronto.

Home prices in Vancouver increased 14 percent to C$722,300 ($543,900) in September from a year ago and Toronto home prices jumped 10 percent to C$567,000.

Spread Risk
Foreign ownership is one of the mortgage insurer�s four data-gathering priorities outlined in the speech. It will also aims to collect information on the total volume of mortgages for a given time period, new condo sales, and on the rental market.

The agency is considering publishing the results of its stress tests, which Siddall said earlier this year in an interview CMHC conducts regularly. A U.S.-style crash scenario where there�s a 30 percent drop in housing and a 5 percent rise in unemployment, would still leave the agency in a strong capital position.

Such a scenario would mean an eight-fold increase in insurance claim losses to as much as C$13.2 billion over five years and cumulative net income would swing to a C$2.8 billion loss from a C$7.5 billion profit. Those losses would be borne by the agency, with none taken by the banks and lenders that originated the loans, Siddall said. The government would have to absorb the losses in such a stressed scenario, he said.

�Insurers would not design a situation this way," he said, reiterating the agency is exploring ways to spread the risk.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 05:07

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/mobile/no-bubble-burst-economist-predicts-b-c-home-prices-to-surge-1.2651724

quote:

No bubble burst: Economist predicts B.C. home prices to surge

VANCOUVER -- British Columbia homeowners can celebrate the latest news from the Central 1 Credit Union, but would-be home buyers could face even more pressure.

Central 1 senior economist Bryan Yu predicts B.C. home prices and sales will continue to rise for the next two years.

He says average prices in the province will leap six per cent this year to $425,000, reaching $462,000 by 2017, with median prices for detached Vancouver-area properties shattering the $1-million mark.

According to Yu, few available homes, Alberta's recession and a weak mining sector will slow -- but not cap -- demand in the Interior, while lack of land and relentless demand fuels sales in Greater Vancouver.

Central 1 also predicts low mortgage rates through 2017 will keep sales sizzling.

It says sky high prices and a seller's market reveal the start of a long-term switch as families give up detached homes on pricey land and instead choose 'forever homes' in higher density condos and apartments.

Bryan Yu is the loving worst of these loving 'economists'.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 05:09

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/toronto/gta-families-debt-1.3310154

quote:

Household debt leaves Toronto-area families struggling to keep up

More Canadians than ever are struggling to get by, crippled by mounting debt and unable to save for the future.

CBC News has interviewed a number of Greater Toronto Area families, many of whom are working full-time but say they are barely able to make ends meet.

Elizabeth McNaught, 57, says the trouble started when she and her husband of 25 years separated. The stay-at-home mom went back to school to become a personal support worker. She also got two credit cards that quickly spiralled out of control.

"We always paid for cash when we were together. Little emergencies came up and I got them. Next thing I knew I was using one to pay for the other," McNaught says.

It wasn't very long before she was more than $20,000 in the red.

"They were eating me alive with the interest rate on them � I was so upset by it. I wasn't sleeping. I was afraid to open the mail," says McNaught. "I couldn't get gas in my car and I need gas for my job."

McNaught adds she felt helpless and alone, but she's far from it.

The perfect storm

Canada's debt-to-income ratio reached 164.6 per cent at the end of June, up from 163 per cent in March. That was the biggest jump in four years and currently sits at its highest level on record.

More than 70 per cent of Canadians carry debt, according to the latest numbers from Statistics Canada. The average figure per person is $21,028 in unsecured debt.

"Unsecured debt is not good debt," says Laurie Campbell, the chief executive officer of Credit Canada. "That means you have nothing to secure against it, higher interest and no way to pay it back."

She's built a career helping people out of debt. But even she finds the latest numbers shocking.

"Interest rates are so low. Everyone is encouraged to borrow. People do not feel the need to go in a strict repayment plan to get out of debt," she says, calling it the perfect storm.

"Many are struggling, borrowing from lines of credit, credit cards and home equity to live a lifestyle that really, over time, is not sustainable," Campbell adds.

How did we get here?

Many families say they feel worked to the bone, mortgaged to the hilt, maxed out on credit and unable to get ahead.

It's a shift from just decades ago when Canada was once known as a nation of savers. As recently as the 1980s, Canadians, on average, saved 20 per cent of their income. That's dropped to 4 per cent.

Personal finance advisor Bruce Sellery calls it a "cultural shift."
"What we want trumps our ability to pay for it. In the 1930s, you could not get credit to buy a 52-inch flat screen TV. It was not available to you, so you did not buy the flat screen TV.

"Today, you can put it on your credit card. Today, you can withdraw equity from your home and you have all sorts of ways in which spending is enabled. And saving goes by the wayside," says Sellery.

Budget woes if rates go up

Katherine Scott, a mother of three, says there's just not enough cash flow in her family to save.

"Experts say that we should have six months of living expenses in cash and we don't. That's too much money. I don't know where we'd get it from," says Scott.

She and her husband bought their west-end Toronto home in 2009. Sky-high daycare costs made it impossible for Scott to retain her career, so they manage on one income.

Their mortgage and bills are paid on time, but anything extra requires careful planning.
"We're frugal. We try our best. We save money when we can. We don't have a lavish lifestyle," says Scott, who buys most of the family's clothes on consignment.

"It's manageable as long as nothing else happens. If the interest rates go up, it'll affect our budget severely," she adds. "Were my husband to lose his job, or were there to be some kind of disaster or unexpected event, that would be very difficult. And that worries me."

As of September, Canadian households owed $1.88 trillion in outstanding debt. They added an additional $74.7 billion in mortgage debt in the last year alone. And the annual increase in the consumer debt load was 5 per cent � far outpacing inflation.

Slow climb out of debt

McNaught, meanwhile, says she hit rock bottom when her car broke down. She needed $300 for repairs, but both credit cards were maxed and so was her line of credit.

"I didn't know what to do. I thought maybe I'd have to go bankrupt," she says.

But she didn't. Instead, she called her brother-in-law, an accountant, who recommended she consolidate her debt.She also overhauled her spending. Last year, there were no presents under the Christmas tree for her grandchildren.

"I felt like I was cheating them," she says. "The older grandson knew. Nana had got herself in trouble and she had to get herself out of it."
Now she's close to being free of debt. And she already has plans for the money that once went towards her debt.

For the first time, she'll have savings. And real hope to retire one day.

"We'll see, each day at a time."

Get hosed motherfuckers

# ? Nov 11, 2015 05:14

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...rticle27182842/

quote:

Where Canadian homeowners are most susceptible to an economic shock

Homeowners in British Columbia, Ontario and Alberta are the most vulnerable to a negative economic shock, but household balance sheets have deteriorated the most in Manitoba and Saskatchewan, a new report by Toronto-Dominion Bank warns.

After rising sharply for nearly a decade, household debt levels have been growing at a slower pace since 2011, the result of the federal government tightening mortgage insurance rules combined with interest rates that have hit rock bottom.

Despite the improving picture, Canadian households are now more susceptible to a major economic shock, such as a housing correction or a rapid rise in interest rates, than they were in the years following the 2008 global financial crisis, TD economist Diana Petramala wrote.

Some provinces are much more likely to suffer the effects of an economic downturn than others, TD warned. Hot housing markets in Ontario and B.C. and an oil-fuelled downturn in Alberta have left those three provinces particularly at risk, while a runup in home prices and high levels of new home construction are putting pressure on homeowners in Saskatchewan and Manitoba. Meanwhile, households in Quebec and Atlantic Canada are emerging from a soft housing market in better shape.

B.C. has topped TD�s list for the most financially vulnerable households in Canada for 16 years in a row. With the most expensive housing market in the country, B.C.�s households spend the largest share of their monthly budgets on paying debt, devoting 9 per cent of their income toward interest payments alone. The typical B.C. household would have to spend more than half its income in order to afford an average-priced home. Stretched affordability has meant the province has an above-average number of homeowners who are delinquent on their mortgages, TD says. Households in B.C. hold a disproportionately large share of their overall wealth in their homes, having fewer non-housing financial assets than other provinces. On the bright side, those housing assets are considerable given the soaring cost of real estate in the province. Homeowners have also adjusted to high home prices by renting out portions of their homes to cover their mortgages, TD said.

Soaring home prices have meant that Ontario homeowners continue to spend a relatively high proportion of their income paying the interest on their debts, despite a substantial drop in interest rates over the past decade. Ontario has the second-highest share of households that spend at least 40 per cent of their income on debt payments, behind only Saskatchewan. Strong growth in home prices has meant Ontario remains among the least affordable housing markets in the country, helping to push the province above Alberta to become the second-most financially vulnerable region, according to TD. Despite their high debts, however, Ontario homeowners are the least likely to be behind in their mortgage payments, TD said.

Albertans will be the �litmus test� for economists� predictions of how prepared Canadian homeowners are for an economic shock, Ms. Petramala wrote. The province has been hit hard by the collapse in oil prices and home prices likely have further to fall. Alberta also has the highest ratio of household debt to income in the country, a result of young, first-time buyers flocking to the province for work. Alberta is one of the few provinces where debt payments have continued to rise faster than incomes even as interest rates have fallen to record lows. One factor working in Alberta�s favour, TD said, is that the province was only starting to recover from an extended post-2007 housing correction when oil prices fell, leaving the province�s housing market less vulnerable today.

Saskatchewan has historically been home to among the most resilient homeowners in the country. But rising home prices and high levels of new home construction have left the province in a more precarious spot. Saskatchewan households have seen their debts rise much faster than their incomes compared to other provinces, Ms. Petramala wrote. The province is the only region in the country where homeowners are spending more of their income on debt payments than they did a decade ago, despite the steady drop in interest rates since then. Nearly 8 per cent of Saskatchewan households spend more than 40 per cent of their income on debt payments. At the same time, home prices have been falling even as the province continues to undergo a building boom; new home construction is six times higher than it was in the early 2000s, the largest jump in the country. Despite concerns about overbuilding in Saskatchewan, housing starts rose once again in the province last month.

Manitoba has long been the country�s most stable housing market, with among the most affordable housing and lowest house-price-to-income ratios in Canada. That has changed in recent years as a hot housing market has driven home prices up by double-digit rates for several years in a row, a sign of a �bubbly market,� Ms. Petramala wrote. The rate of new home construction has risen twice as fast in Manitoba as the rest of the country. Even so, Manitobans have among the lowest household debts in the country and the share of income homeowners spend on debt payments has dropped the fastest out of any province since 2008. �While financial vulnerabilities are rising fast in Manitoba, the province still has a long way until it catches up to indebtedness levels reached in other parts of the country,� she wrote.

Having suffered through a soft housing market for the past two years, Quebec households are now strengthening their balance sheets. The province has the smallest share of homeowners who spend at least 40 per cent of their income on debt payments. Having come through a housing correction, home prices in the province are now fairly valued, Ms. Petramala writes. Coupled with a steadily improving economy, Quebec households appear to be in their best financial shape in a nearly decade.

Atlantic Canada has the distinction of being the least vulnerable to an economic crisis. But only because the household balance sheets in other provinces have deteriorated more quickly than those in Eastern Canada. A lengthy housing correction has meant that Atlantic Canada now has the most affordable home prices in the country, along with one of the lowest debt-to-income ratios. It�s not all good news. TD warns that debts have been rising faster than assets as homeowners rely more heavily on debt amid rising unemployment. Atlantic Canada also has the highest share of homeowners who are at least 90 days behind on their mortgage payments, at more than twice the national average.

namaste friends fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Nov 11, 2015

# ? Nov 11, 2015 05:15

HookShot: Dec 26, 2005

Do car loans count as "unsecured debt"?

I wouldn't think so, but holy poo poo, 21k in other unsecured debt per person is just enormous.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 06:00

Lexicon: Jul 29, 2003; I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.

HookShot posted:

Do car loans count as "unsecured debt"?

I wouldn't think so, but holy poo poo, 21k in other unsecured debt per person is just enormous.

No; car loans are secured by the underlying asset (lol).

# ? Nov 11, 2015 06:11

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

TRUCK

EQUITY

# ? Nov 11, 2015 06:23

Risky Bisquick: Jan 18, 2008; PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.; Buglord

Lexicon posted:

No; car loans are secured by the underlying asset (lol).

I always thought it wasn't the case, I guess all th payday loan morons and borrow from your car people are literally everywhere.

CMHC is totally slow playing this poo poo. I know what to do, first only citizens can qualify for CMHC below 600k (Whao get out the way); second allow third party lenders to backstop this foreign cash; third nationalize these real estate boards or force them to publically list all data without charge; fourth collect more data, more more more more more more more.

Just reducing the limit to what CMHC backstops would be amazing. Why the hell are the Feds literally backstopping the entirety of the bubble markets IT MAKES NO SENSE JUST SET IT ON FIRE AND BE DONE WITH IT.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 06:35

HookShot: Dec 26, 2005

Lexicon posted:

No; car loans are secured by the underlying asset (lol).

Yeah, I kinda figured. Cars are suuuuch a horrendous asset though that they should barely count as secured, and the 21k figure was just so high that I thought "surely not..." but there we go.

jm20 posted:

I always thought it wasn't the case, I guess all th payday loan morons and borrow from your car people are literally everywhere.

Fun fact this is how those places work (my husband's ex-business partner's ex-fiancee's brother ran one of these places):

- The dealership owners go to car auctions and buy whatever random shitbox for like $500.
- They stick a price of $5k on it
- They offer CREDIT TO ANYONE BAD CREDIT NO CREDIT GET YOUR NEW CAR NOW
- They require a 10% deposit.
- They immediately get their $500 back, and start getting payments on the remaining balance.
- Eventually the people stop paying because, well, the type of people that go to these places aren't the type of people that can afford a $5k car
- The dealership dudes reposess the car
- They put it back up for sale for $5000. They've already made back the money they paid for the car, plus any payments the person made, plus they get the car back
- Rinse and repeat forever.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 06:38

Risky Bisquick: Jan 18, 2008; PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.; Buglord

Don't forget they also sell the loan to collections for a % of the outstanding loan.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 06:50

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

There was a dude who posted in this thread who was super knowledgeable about auto finding.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 06:57

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

Wasn't there an A/T a couple years back from a dude who worked at a place like this and how initially he felt guilty ripping off poors but grew to hate them so gently caress them if they don't want to get hosed they should be better with their finances.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 07:17

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Baronjutter posted:

Wasn't there an A/T a couple years back from a dude who worked at a place like this and how initially he felt guilty ripping off poors but grew to hate them so gently caress them if they don't want to get hosed they should be better with their finances.

Sounds like the perfect job for CI.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 07:22

Lexicon: Jul 29, 2003; I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.

Cultural Imperial posted:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...rticle27182842/

If BC has topped the financially vulnerable list for 16 (!) years in a row, and still nothing changes... well, maybe it really is different in the BPOE.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 07:38

MickeyFinn: May 8, 2007; Biggie Smalls and Junior Mafia some mark ass bitches

Cultural Imperial posted:

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/toronto/gta-families-debt-1.3310154

Get hosed motherfuckers

57 year-old begins saving for retirement, holy poo poo.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 07:57

Lexicon: Jul 29, 2003; I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.

jm20 posted:

I always thought it wasn't the case, I guess all th payday loan morons and borrow from your car people are literally everywhere.

CMHC is totally slow playing this poo poo. I know what to do, first only citizens can qualify for CMHC below 600k (Whao get out the way); second allow third party lenders to backstop this foreign cash; third nationalize these real estate boards or force them to publically list all data without charge; fourth collect more data, more more more more more more more.

Just reducing the limit to what CMHC backstops would be amazing. Why the hell are the Feds literally backstopping the entirety of the bubble markets IT MAKES NO SENSE JUST SET IT ON FIRE AND BE DONE WITH IT.

It makes perfect sense, actually. Whoever takes away the punch bowl will become a national pariah, and their party won't have a shot at reelection for a generation, minimum.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 08:26

ChairMaster: Aug 22, 2009; by R. Guyovich

Baronjutter posted:

Wasn't there an A/T a couple years back from a dude who worked at a place like this and how initially he felt guilty ripping off poors but grew to hate them so gently caress them if they don't want to get hosed they should be better with their finances.

There was one like that like two months ago, IIRC. Fact of the matter is that you can only really feel bad for these kind of people in theory because in practice most of them are loving garbage and when you have to put up with their poo poo for long enough you eventually stop feeling any empathy for them whatsoever.

After working at a convenience store for a couple years I would be perfectly happy if all the cops here in Nanaimo took all the crackheads and degenerates out to the ocean and threw them overboard, even though intellectually I know that's not cool.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 09:26

Mantle: May 15, 2004

Cross posting from the BWM thread:

reddit posted:

My wife and I bought into the market in Edmonton two months before it leveled off back in around 2008 and then it started to fall. Unfortuantely we bought our condo at 249,900 and right now it's worth about 210,000. If we sell it now we might break even, but it's hard to keep an eye on it from all the way out in Vancouver.

So yes I wish we had waited. And I wish we hadn't bought a condo.

I asked how one could break even by buying at $249k and selling at $210k and got this response:

quote:

Not sure if sarcastic. There is no /s. Break even as in the mortgage is paid down to be at 210, so if he sold it, he would get the remaining for the mortgage. No profit, and an "invisible loss", yet he wouldn't continue to pay the mortgage after, so not a "real loss".

Since when does "break even" mean taking a capital loss of $39k, 7 years of mortgage interest payments, property tax, strata fees, sales commission, and opportunity cost on the down payment? So that's not a "real loss"? Not only that, the hive mind concurred with the response that being able to sell a house without being underwater is breaking even.

I guess my idea that breaking even means not losing money is old fashioned.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 09:42

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

People have to re-define the meaning of very basic financial terms in order to maintain at least a tiny shred of pride or hope.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 09:48

MiddleOne: Feb 17, 2011

Mantle posted:

Cross posting from the BWM thread:

I asked how one could break even by buying at $249k and selling at $210k and got this response:

Since when does "break even" mean taking a capital loss of $39k, 7 years of mortgage interest payments, property tax, strata fees, sales commission, and opportunity cost on the down payment? So that's not a "real loss"? Not only that, the hive mind concurred with the response that being able to sell a house without being underwater is breaking even.

I guess my idea that breaking even means not losing money is old fashioned.

I have a friend who trades second hand cars as a hobby who tends to resort to the same kind of math when things go south on him. It's a coping mechanism. :shrug:

# ? Nov 11, 2015 09:49

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Baronjutter posted:

People have to re-define the meaning of very basic financial terms in order to maintain at least a tiny shred of pride or hope.

If you don't have pride of ownership what's left

# ? Nov 11, 2015 10:57

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

MickeyFinn posted:

57 year-old begins saving for retirement, holy poo poo.

Yeah, that kinda caused my jaw to drop as well. "For the first time, she'll have savings. And real hope to retire one day." Good luck with that, lady!

# ? Nov 11, 2015 11:07

cowofwar: Jul 30, 2002; by Athanatos

Calling all these wankers "economists" is like calling a technician a scientist.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 13:33

Femtosecond: Aug 2, 2003

McGavin posted:

Canada's housing market faces a looming demographic bubble

Who will be able to afford the pricey homes currently owned by disappearing boomers?

quote:

...
So besides places like inner city Toronto, which type of properties will keep their value? In smaller communities, the premium will be on smaller, low-maintenance homes, especially bungalows. In larger cities, larger condos in prime areas with more than one bedroom will still be needed as boomers downsize.

Besides rural monster homes, the properties that will do the worst are the 500-square-foot condos, Rabidoux says. They are in plentiful supply because they were easier for builders to sell as investment properties. But he predicts boomers moving out of relatively spacious family homes will not be interested.

Both Macbeth and Rabidoux agree that with a large number of boomers moving out of the housing market and a smaller group of young people moving in, prices will inevitably fall. But unlike the potentially dramatic effect caused by swings in interest rates, the boomer bubble is likely to unwind slowly, with more expensive houses the first to feel the pinch.
...

I would go so far to say boomers will not be interested in 1000+ sqft condos. My parents had to stay for a while in a 1000+ sqft condo due to aspects of their house being repaired, and they were like tigers crammed in a cage snarling at one another. There wasn't enough space and it didn't work well. Boomers have spent most of their lives in large spaces and we shouldn't discount how big of a change it would be to downsize to a smaller space. The anecdotes of boomers who do downsize and are unhappy will cause others to hit pause on their plans to do the same.

I think there's actually a pretty good chance that most boomers will not move out at all, and will stay in their houses until the end.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 17:51

Professor Shark: May 22, 2012

My parents spend their days on opposite ends of the house from one another

My girlfriend and I do the same thing, only in a much smaller house

# ? Nov 11, 2015 18:02

ductonius: Apr 9, 2007; I heard there's a cream for that...

Femtosecond posted:

I think there's actually a pretty good chance that most boomers will not move out at all, and will stay in their houses until the end.

...driving until they can no longer see, then complaining like rabid dogs about lack of public transit.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 18:06

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

Mantle posted:

Cross posting from the BWM thread:

I asked how one could break even by buying at $249k and selling at $210k and got this response:

Since when does "break even" mean taking a capital loss of $39k, 7 years of mortgage interest payments, property tax, strata fees, sales commission, and opportunity cost on the down payment? So that's not a "real loss"? Not only that, the hive mind concurred with the response that being able to sell a house without being underwater is breaking even.

I guess my idea that breaking even means not losing money is old fashioned.

Sort of sad seeing all the stories in which people paid $1000 to $2000 premium per month just for the pride of home debtorship.

If you can rent for $1500-$1700 in GTA, then paying $2500 to $3500 per month for home ownership once out add up all the various hidden costs doesn't make sense to me.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 18:28

Professor Shark: May 22, 2012

My sister's pipes burst in her condo and they only found out because the "whatever the landlord equivalent for condos is" person woke them up in the middle of the night to tell them.

When my dad told me that I said "Well at least they aren't on the hook for that, right?" and opps, they are. Hopefully insurance comes through!

# ? Nov 11, 2015 18:32

Lexicon: Jul 29, 2003; I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.

Professor Shark posted:

My sister's pipes burst in her condo and they only found out because the "whatever the landlord equivalent for condos is" person woke them up in the middle of the night to tell them.

When my dad told me that I said "Well at least they aren't on the hook for that, right?" and opps, they are. Hopefully insurance comes through!

Wait, she owns it or rents it? It's not fully clear from the information given.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 18:52

HookShot: Dec 26, 2005

In the apartment building we used to live in there was a bunch of water in the carpet one day so we assumed that a pipe burst, told the management company and went on with our lives because it was like three apartments down from ours.

It turns out what had happened was the apartment above them (we'll call it 300) had a problem with the water heater. The owner was renting it out to long term tenants, and instead of actually getting it fixed, told the tenants to just not have showers.

So eventually the tenants said "gently caress it" and dared to actually have a shower in their home and the whole thing leaked all the water down onto the apartment below them. And there was a LOT of it, when we walked past in the hallway the carpet was wet enough that stepping on it made water go into our shoes.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 19:00

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# ? May 31, 2024 11:07

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

HookShot posted:

In the apartment building we used to live in there was a bunch of water in the carpet one day so we assumed that a pipe burst, told the management company and went on with our lives because it was like three apartments down from ours.

It turns out what had happened was the apartment above them (we'll call it 300) had a problem with the water heater. The owner was renting it out to long term tenants, and instead of actually getting it fixed, told the tenants to just not have showers.

So eventually the tenants said "gently caress it" and dared to actually have a shower in their home and the whole thing leaked all the water down onto the apartment below them. And there was a LOT of it, when we walked past in the hallway the carpet was wet enough that stepping on it made water go into our shoes.

If there's urgent repairs that need to be done on a dwelling you've leased, isn't the correct thing to do to have those things done, and then withhold rent to compensate for it, assuming the landlord does not do anything upon learning of the problem? I feel like both the tenant and landlord share some blame, but mainly the lovely landlord.

A friend of mine rents out a condo he owns, and if his tenants ever want to do improvements or anything, he says "just make sure it's done right, and I'll give you a break on the rent for doing it." This is why he has good tenants and his condo remains in good repair.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 19:04

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

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