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What would help is not making a computer so drat thin for no reason.
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Nov 8, 2014 20:58
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Mu Zeta posted:What would help is not making a computer so drat thin for no reason. Yeah I wish Apple wouldn't have such a stick up their rear end about design, service and reliability. That way we could finally have comps that look however they may look, can be overclocked and when they burn up, tough cookies. They should just sell gaming PCs. Bonobos posted:So have an of you with shiny Retina iMacs done any gaming? Naah, and I totally haven't posted about it a few pages ago. Yeast posted:I wouldn't be too concerned. They've been in the wild for 3 seconds. Apple will probably push firmware updates as they need to, but if you're buying the retina iMac as a gaming machine, I don't know what to tell you really. Mostly agree. Diablo 3 worked for me at 5k and I may try out Windows at some point, but this isn't an efficient investment for gaming. For gaming, I like to buy hardware with the most bang for the buck, with reliability a distant second consideration, so a Windows PC fits the bill.
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Nov 8, 2014 22:42
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flavor posted:Yeah I wish Apple wouldn't have such a stick up their rear end about design, service and reliability. That way we could finally have comps that look however they may look, can be overclocked and when they burn up, tough cookies. They should just sell gaming PCs. I don't even know what you're trying to say with this. The GPU would be able to function at its actual capacity if Apple didn't fetishize squeezing out every last tenth of a millimeter out of its desktop computer. It doesn't mean it wouldn't look good, or be less reliable, or mean Apple has worse service(?)
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Nov 8, 2014 22:45
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fleshweasel posted:I don't even know what you're trying to say with this. The GPU would be able to function at its actual capacity if Apple didn't fetishize squeezing out every last tenth of a millimeter out of its desktop computer. It doesn't mean it wouldn't look good, or be less reliable, or mean Apple has worse service(?) There's always a case to be made about making it just a little bit thicker to accommodate feature X. I can't really go into a long discussion of this now, but the paradigm of an iMac is simply different from that of a desktop Windows PC. Put it this way: If enough people wanted Apple to make a gaming machine, and they could make one without compromising their principles and still make money with it, they probably would. My impression is that the customer interest for that simply isn't there. The service issue is that on a gaming PC, such as the one I have, I can mess with the internals endlessly, but nobody is going to help me if I mess up. Additionally, the makers of the components that went into that PC can all blame each other if anything goes wrong with any component. Apple does not get to do that as long as I have AppleCare. Therefore it's in their interest to design things a little more conservatively so they last through that. That doesn't really go well with the most extreme, factory-overlocked graphics cards. I'm not feeling the need to say that either side (iMacs vs. gaming PCs) is "fetishizing" anything, they are simply different types of products.
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Nov 8, 2014 23:03
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On the other hand they could've also avoided this problem if they had gone with nvidia's maxwell parts Iike 980M instead of hot and inefficient AMD parts.
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Nov 8, 2014 23:55
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I didn't realize so many people bought iMacs for gaming instead of something more practical like a PS4
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Nov 9, 2014 00:04
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flavor posted:They should just sell gaming PCs. If this were a couple years ago, I would agree with you. PC gaming is on its way out, and is just for low end free to play games and MMOs now. There's no reason to make high end PCs anymore. Just buy a PlayStation 4 if you want to play games and save yourself the gigantic headaches that PC ports continue to have.
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Nov 9, 2014 00:10
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I said come in! posted:If this were a couple years ago, I would agree with you. PC gaming is on its way out, and is just for low end free to play games and MMOs now. There's no reason to make high end PCs anymore. Just buy a PlayStation 4 if you want to play games and save yourself the gigantic headaches that PC ports continue to have.
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Nov 9, 2014 00:13
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It's just about building a case that allows the hardware you're shipping to function properly. There is no reasonable way to justify their design. Of course the retina iMac is probably going to work great if you don't play demanding games on it. That is not the point. There is no reason that a desktop should be throttling because it's getting too hot at factory settings. Users get absolutely nothing out of the slightly thinner case on a desktop, but they do get something out of fully functioning hardware. It doesn't mean the retina iMac is bad, poo poo, I'd love to have one over any other desktop available right now. But it does mean that Apple is a little full of poo poo on this one point.
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Nov 9, 2014 00:37
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Yeah that's actually surprising to see after they spent so much time on the thermal performance of Mac Pro. Somehow they completely disregarded that in the flagship iMac with a 5K panel and a demanding GPU load.
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Nov 9, 2014 01:08
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Ugh. Lead-free solder on the AMD/ATI GPUs seem to be a big issue with Apple. They wont acknowledge the cold solder joints issue on a lot of their models. I had to reflow my 2010 iMacs video card in the oven because every morning I would find it in a graphical glitch storm. You might remember I posted about it last winter taking it back and forth to the Apple Store and how they costed me a few hundred to replace the video card and logic board twice. I'm assuming they don't test these things in extreme weather. The GPU gets hot and at night during the winter the temp drops below 0 in some offices/homes. Expand and shrink... Designed in California. Probably tested there too.
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Nov 9, 2014 01:23
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fleshweasel posted:It's just about building a case that allows the hardware you're shipping to function properly. There is no reasonable way to justify their design. Of course the retina iMac is probably going to work great if you don't play demanding games on it. That is not the point. There is no reason that a desktop should be throttling because it's getting too hot at factory settings. Users get absolutely nothing out of the slightly thinner case on a desktop, but they do get something out of fully functioning hardware. It doesn't mean the retina iMac is bad, poo poo, I'd love to have one over any other desktop available right now. But it does mean that Apple is a little full of poo poo on this one point. No. What's really full of poo poo, if you want to call it that, are the component makers. Consumer-level CPUs and GPUs are not made to be run at full power constantly without either throttling themselves, overheating or lasting a lot less time. I'm with the poster who said that this thing has been out for 3 seconds. I have personally not seen it throttling itself in Diablo 3, but that's just my anecdote. But again, gaming is not a high priority for me on it. If it was, I'd get a 4x SLI PC for that money.
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Nov 9, 2014 01:50
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Gaming is a priority for me, but not enough to not spend stupidly on a maxed out 5K iMac. I still have my 2012 built Ivy Bridge Windows PC to game/stream from as necessary, or I can Boot Camp up the Mac. And since all my work has mostly been from OS X already, but from Hackintosh setup on this gaming PC, I'll just tear off a final backup to my Time Capsule and shut it down for the last time before I plug in the iMac.
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Nov 9, 2014 02:15
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DaNzA posted:Yeah that's actually surprising to see after they spent so much time on the thermal performance of Mac Pro. Somehow they completely disregarded that in the flagship iMac with a 5K panel and a demanding GPU load. From the tear down, the new iMac isn't really a redesign at all, just a new display. Probably makes sense, but has some trade offs.
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Nov 9, 2014 03:01
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kode54 posted:Gaming is a priority for me, but not enough to not spend stupidly on a maxed out 5K iMac. I still have my 2012 built Ivy Bridge Windows PC to game/stream from as necessary,  There is a school of thought of some people that they can only have one machine. I understand that, but then they'll just have to live with the tradeoffs.
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Nov 9, 2014 04:19
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Housh posted:Ugh. Lead-free solder on the AMD/ATI GPUs seem to be a big issue with Apple. They wont acknowledge the cold solder joints issue on a lot of their models. I had to reflow my 2010 iMacs video card in the oven because every morning I would find it in a graphical glitch storm. You might remember I posted about it last winter taking it back and forth to the Apple Store and how they costed me a few hundred to replace the video card and logic board twice. I'm assuming they don't test these things in extreme weather. The GPU gets hot and at night during the winter the temp drops below 0 in some offices/homes. Expand and shrink... Apple's test facilities are indeed in California, but you're barking up some wrong trees. Every Valley company I've worked at uses environmental test chambers. The alternative would be putting a test lab local to every climate you need to test, and waiting for weather conditions to be right, which would be silly. With a chamber, you can dial up any combo of temperature and humidity you like, at any time of the year. Ambient temps aren't that hard on solder joints. What usually cracks them is load cycling: abruptly going from no-load to full load and back again, over and over. The temperature swings here are greater than day/night, take place over a much shorter time, and produce steep thermal gradients across many materials. Re: lead-free solder... Apple transitioned to it before Intel Macs were even a thing. There were industry-wide problems with lead-free early on, but over time these problems were mostly solved. Tin whiskers are still a concern, but that's a very different thing from cold or cracked joints. I would also note that in Mac models where the CPU is soldered, it's the same lead-free soldering process you assume is the culprit. In most cases, CPUs go through much more load-related thermal cycling than GPUs do, yet soldered CPUs are generally very reliable. I have my theories on this, and they have more to do with the nature of the GPU business than they do with Apple.
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Nov 9, 2014 04:20
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BobHoward posted:Ambient temps aren't that hard on solder joints. What usually cracks them is load cycling: abruptly going from no-load to full load and back again, over and over. The temperature swings here are greater than day/night, take place over a much shorter time, and produce steep thermal gradients across many materials. Thanks! Makes sense to me now. What's killing my solder joints is streaming plex at night in the winter. I grew up thinking computers should always be cold but that is not always the case. I'll put my lead-free solder  to rest and beware the winter time video transcoding.From now on I keep the computer room at room temperature.
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Nov 9, 2014 05:14
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flavor posted:No. What's really full of poo poo, if you want to call it that, are the component makers. Consumer-level CPUs and GPUs are not made to be run at full power constantly without either throttling themselves, overheating or lasting a lot less time. This really isn't true. After the Pentium 4's problems (in which consumers did experience their CPUs self-throttling all the time), Intel got a serious bug up its rear end about doing this right. With a proper thermal solution (and Intel puts a lot of effort into ensuring most consumers get one), Intel CPUs essentially never throttle. (Note: turbo is not the same as throttle.) Discrete GPUs are somewhat worse, on average, because (a) their thermal engineering isn't quite as good as Intel's and (b) the manufacturers don't put as much money into holding system integrators' hands as Intel. However, that's not a good excuse here. This is Apple we're talking about. They of all companies ought to be able to engineer a $3K computer to not throttle its GPU under ordinary loads. I only skimmed but it looks like the MacRumors thread is talking about running games under Windows. Hopefully this is just the usual junky boot camp drivers encountered early in a Mac's life.
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Nov 9, 2014 05:30
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BobHoward posted:(Note: turbo is not the same as throttle.) You're right there, but if nowadays I buy a CPU whose clock speed ranges from X to 1.5X or 2X, I would regard it as disappointing if it stays at X for the most time. And Apple has engineered a $3k computer that does what you say, and it's the Mac Pro. We can now discuss back and forth what an "ordinary load" is and how long it should be sustainable, but honestly, if my bread and butter would be to run a certain load with a guaranteed performance that's sustainable more or less permanently, I wouldn't go anywhere near an iMac (but would get a Mac Pro instead, not a gaming PC just to be clear). That said, I haven't seen mine throttle under load, but maybe it was less than ordinary :P.
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Nov 9, 2014 06:00
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My Macbook Pro's harddrive died, and from what I can tell the RAM just shat itself as well although I haven't tried reseating it. Do repairs take long? I need my computer up and running for a presentation in 2 days (for school) and the program I wrote is a Mac Only one.
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Nov 9, 2014 12:29
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Depends on how busy the store is. Actual repair time on that is probably thirty minutes including imaging the new drive, but they'll want to test it and will have other repairs to do before yours. Just go in, be nice and tell them what's up and you'll probably be fine.
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Nov 9, 2014 17:12
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$1800 quote to fix my rMBP from Apple.  Insurance claim time... Anyone have any success selling damaged MBPs for parts? What's the best way, eBay? I have a 2011 MBP with a dead GPU and the 2014 rMBP with significant water damage.
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Nov 9, 2014 20:10
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Pivo posted:$1800 quote to fix my rMBP from Apple. Wait, $1800? The highest price tier for accidental damage flat rate repairs is $1240. Unless you are not in the US. Edit: Oh wait, yeah. Canada.
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Nov 9, 2014 20:14
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1997 posted:Wait, $1800? The highest price tier for accidental damage flat rate repairs is $1240. Unless you are not in the US. Yarr, Canada. They said top case, mainboard, display and display cable, and wireless card. Came out to 1880 or something. My deductible is $1000 soooooo... I mean, actually, I'd rather pay $1240 flat out than make an insurance claim, but I don't think that was an option.
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Nov 9, 2014 20:23
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Pivo posted:Yarr, Canada. Canada does not offer flat rate repairs. You're way better off with the claim.
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Nov 9, 2014 20:32
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Kingnothing posted:Canada does not offer flat rate repairs. You're way better off with the claim. Maybe he could mail it to a friend here in the real world and have the flat-rate repair done?
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Nov 9, 2014 22:43
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Choadmaster posted:a friend here in the real world >:(
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Nov 9, 2014 22:56
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Choadmaster posted:Maybe he could mail it to a friend here in the real world and have the flat-rate repair done? Considering the cost to safely mail there and back, the insurance claim is likely his best option.
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Nov 9, 2014 23:10
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Yeah yeah guys I'm going to make the claim. I called the woman in charge of our policy, left her a voicemail, I just know that when my parents' house got robbed it took nearly a year to get reimbursed so it just sucks that I'll have to drop *another* 2800-ish on the laptop and then maybe see 1800 later at some indeterminate time. I used to work in insurance, claims suck.
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Nov 9, 2014 23:14
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Hey, I'm not the one who made America God's chosen country. Complain to Jesus, he wrote the Bible.
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Nov 10, 2014 01:06
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1997 posted:Depends on how busy the store is. Actual repair time on that is probably thirty minutes including imaging the new drive, but they'll want to test it and will have other repairs to do before yours. My logic board was the problem. But the guys at the store are nice. They offered to fix it today, so I'm watching a movie while they fix it.
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Nov 10, 2014 02:05
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Ok so my macbook 15 retina 2012 just died on me I think. Was working in Parallel windows and it just turn off suddenly, and now it won't turn back on. Tried SMC and PRAM reset but it didn't work either. When I plug in the Magsafe there's a clicking noise near the connector which didn't happen before. The green led is still on. Am I hosed?
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Nov 10, 2014 03:32
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Yeast posted:I wouldn't be too concerned. They've been in the wild for 3 seconds. Apple will probably push firmware updates as they need to, but if you're buying the retina iMac as a gaming machine, I don't know what to tell you really. What other choice do you have?
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Nov 10, 2014 04:28
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Well, obviously, you're not supposed to be gaming on the Mac, and you're better off spending the $2500 or maybe even less on a really  Windows PC if you really cared all that much about gaming performance. 
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Nov 10, 2014 06:10
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Just got my computer back and it's running really slowly and hot. I'm a little disappointed.
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Nov 10, 2014 07:32
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Lord Windy posted:Just got my computer back and it's running really slowly and hot. I'm a little disappointed. Might just be Spotlight indexing your new HDD, which will tend to make things slowish and warm for a while. Check Activity Monitor and see what's using CPU.
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Nov 10, 2014 08:36
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BobHoward posted:Might just be Spotlight indexing your new HDD, which will tend to make things slowish and warm for a while. Check Activity Monitor and see what's using CPU. And I feel like a twit for not realising that. I had the same complaint when I first got it. Is filevault worth it, or would I be better off encrypting individual files with an app?
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Nov 10, 2014 09:28
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Lord Windy posted:And I feel like a twit for not realising that. I had the same complaint when I first got it. YMMV. Most people are scared of whole disk encryption for some reason and early on with FileVaultv1 there was reason. FileVaultv2 has been great in my experience and you don't even notice an impact on disk performance (esp. on SSD). I run it because my job requires it and have not had an issue at all for the last three releases including this one. Just make sure you store that master recovery key somewhere you can get your hands on it if the computer goes tits up. I have it on dropbox, box, and on the iCloud drive myself. Apple will also escrow the master key if you wish. I would no longer trust TureCrypt as the devs seem to have up and disappeared and there's talk of the latest available versions being compromised. At least the last I heard about it, which was a couple months ago. And gently caress PGP for whole disk encryption. It ate an entire drive back around 10.6 and I've never, ever trusted them again. PGP is great if you go the encrypt a file here and there and for encrypted email.
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Nov 10, 2014 12:37
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FileVault is fine, use it.
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Nov 10, 2014 22:35
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Are you a pedophile? If not, FileVault just complicates life.
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Nov 10, 2014 22:53
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