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gohmak posted:Anyone read KSR New York 2140? It's ok. It either needed to be 2/3 as long or 3/2 as long - it's got an ensemble cast but nobody really gets to shine. Either some characters needed to be cut or it needed to linger even longer. It's about as mundane a future setting as you can imagine (Venice NYC aside), and I saw that criticism a few times. But I think that was part of the exercise: What if the future isn't drastically different from today? What if in 2140 it's still Republicans vs Democrats, arguing over capital gains and how to regulate hedge funds? What if every main character's job in ~*the future*~ already exists today? What if society isn't drastically different? Why do we assume it will be? I guess it's one way of answering the question of our time - "How will the Climate Changed future feel to live in?" In New York 2140 the answer is "almost exactly the same, with different shorelines and assumptions about energy generation, but with all the same problems, and with mostly the same solutions (so stop putting it off)." It's an optimistic thought, in a KSR sort of way. But it could have been a better novel.
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May 25, 2017 01:58
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Sorry wt
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May 25, 2017 02:27
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Books are my external hard drives. Giving them away is like giving away a piece of my brain.  With a new house without storage space and two small kids I find my book shelf space is rapidly decreasing. But I figure I will get more again once I have finished converting my kids to bookworms.
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May 25, 2017 06:43
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Prolonged Priapism posted:It's ok. It either needed to be 2/3 as long or 3/2 as long - it's got an ensemble cast but nobody really gets to shine. Either some characters needed to be cut or it needed to linger even longer. I'll give KSR the benefit of the doubt on this, but if things are almost exactly the same, what happened with the predicted catastrophic famines and mass migrations in the third world?
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May 25, 2017 07:16
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Cardiac posted:
Kids don't need toys or beds, you should be fine for space
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May 25, 2017 08:43
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Antti posted:I'll give KSR the benefit of the doubt on this, but if things are almost exactly the same, what happened with the predicted catastrophic famines and mass migrations in the third world? IIRC they did happen but mostly in the mid 21st century so things have recovered somewhat, and anyway all the main characters are New Yorkers living in the cosy protective bubble of the first world.
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May 25, 2017 12:25
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freebooter posted:IIRC they did happen but mostly in the mid 21st century so things have recovered somewhat, and anyway all the main characters are New Yorkers living in the cosy protective bubble of the first world. Right, but what I'm getting at is that if you're a first worlder being able to live a perfectly happy and satisfying life in the 22nd century despite global warming, it takes on a dystopian tone to me if it was done on the backs of three billion poor people dying of starvation. Now, of course you have a reasonable argument that this is already happening and has been happening since the birth of colonialism and imperialism. What I'm trying to say is that it makes me too uncomfortable to think of that kind of depiction of a climate-changed world as "optimistic." Sulphagnist fucked around with this message at 14:07 on May 25, 2017 |
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May 25, 2017 14:05
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that's because in the pessimistic scenario the 3 billion third worlders starve just the same, only the first worlders do too
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May 25, 2017 14:27
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freebooter posted:IIRC they did happen but mostly in the mid 21st century so things have recovered somewhat, and anyway all the main characters are New Yorkers living in the cosy protective bubble of the first world. I'm sure it's a diverse cast of New Yorkers though.
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May 25, 2017 14:28
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I read the first Dune book while on a trip. It was pretty good overall, though fifty-some years have probably tempered it since it was the book which raised the game for a lot of science fiction. It's kind of oddly paced too, it feels like half of the book is going "oh man, there's gonna be a betrayal, here it comes, look at these loving Harkonnens go!" and then kind of glosses over Paul turning into Genghis Khan: the Baron getting taken out like a complete chump kind of fits thematically in an Icarus kind of way but it's a bit of a letdown given how incredibly fun all of his plotting was, it feels like he goes from principle narrative force to an afterthought around the final bit of the novel. I'm sort of torn about the ending because it really made me want to read more but the lack of a real conclusion sort of hurt the book. I can definitely see why a nerdy teenager would adore this series though, I think if I was ten years younger when I read this book it would have been an obsession for me. Also apparently the series overall has a really wide level of quality between books where some are really good and others are horrible and some are just straight up  . I know the ones written by his son are supposed to not be that good but could I get a quick runthrough of what the ones written by Frank are like overall?
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May 25, 2017 15:38
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ManlyGrunting posted:Also apparently the series overall has a really wide level of quality between books where some are really good and others are horrible and some are just straight up
Honestly if you want more Frank Herbert after Dune I'd just read Destination: Void and decide if that poo poo is for you. The Godmakers and God Emperor of Dune are probably his most interesting works on a conceptual level (after Dune itself), but whether they actually work is debatable.
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May 25, 2017 16:02
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Nakar posted:
Chapterhouse is amazing because the cliffhanger ending of all this galaxy-spanning philosophical war is Murbella thinking about eating oyster soup with the rest of the Sisterhood . It's delightfully bonkers.
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May 25, 2017 16:13
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IMO Dune asks a question and Messiah answers it. The same is true of Children and God Emperor but to a lesser extent. Also Heretics is fun and rules.
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May 25, 2017 16:14
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The rule for Dune is to keep reading until you personally decide "ok that was bad," then stop, go no further, because it will never get better. Personally the last book in the series I like is God Emperor.
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May 25, 2017 16:16
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I am going to only read Dune because I heard eventually there is a philosopher man slug and that sounds p. dumb.
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May 25, 2017 16:19
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I am going to only read Dune because I heard eventually there is a philosopher man slug and that sounds p. dumb. You're going to want to read through and including God Emperor and... just strap the gently caress in for that one.
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May 25, 2017 16:46
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It's never too soon to stop reading Dune sequels.
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May 25, 2017 17:02
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Just watch the movie, its better than the book.
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May 25, 2017 17:08
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Just play the video game, it's better than the movie.
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May 25, 2017 17:17
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Sunbathing on a dune is the ultimate Dune experience.
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May 25, 2017 17:24
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Just watch the movie about the movie that never got made; it's better than the movie.
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May 25, 2017 17:25
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Chairchucker posted:Just play the video game, it's better than the movie. And Dune II is a better video game than Dune I, and at that point you might as well play Warcraft. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 17:48 on May 25, 2017 |
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May 25, 2017 17:29
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The Dune tabletop game is pretty good. You may have to  the game board to make it happen, though.
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May 25, 2017 17:34
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:And Dune II is a better video game than Dune I, and at that point you might as well play Warcraft. Excuse you, Dune 2000 is the greatest RTS of all time
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May 25, 2017 17:53
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Number Ten Cocks posted:Just watch the movie, its better than the book. The one with Agent Cooper or the one with Professor X
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May 25, 2017 17:58
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If you get a choice in life, always go with Dale Cooper.
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May 25, 2017 18:03
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Clark Nova posted:The Dune tabletop game is pretty good. You may have to http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Dune
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May 25, 2017 18:05
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Number Ten Cocks posted:Just watch the movie, its better than the book.  Chairchucker posted:Just play the video game, it's better than the movie. 
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May 25, 2017 18:19
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Mel Mudkiper posted:The one with Agent Cooper or the one with Professor X They're both in the same movie, so obviously that one.
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May 25, 2017 18:25
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Anybody seen any news about K. J. Parker's apparently failing serial project Two of Swords? Amazon just canceled my preorders for some of the last installments, and I see that now there's a "volume 1, volume 2, volume 3" up for preorder, but I can't figure out what's going on.
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May 25, 2017 18:26
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We know the only movie better than the book is Starship Troopers
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May 25, 2017 18:43
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Mel Mudkiper posted:We know the only movie better than the book is Starship Troopers Fight Club.
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May 25, 2017 18:44
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Mel Mudkiper posted:We know the only movie better than the book is Starship Troopers Blade Runner (Harrison Ford's best movie)
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May 25, 2017 18:46
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Ben Nevis posted:Fight Club. I would have also accepted The Shining
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May 25, 2017 18:47
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Blade Runner. I literally cannot watch Blade Runner without falling asleep That movie is somehow programmed to knock me the gently caress out
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May 25, 2017 18:48
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Stardust. IMO.
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May 25, 2017 18:49
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Mel Mudkiper posted:We know the only movie better than the book is Starship Troopers The Hobbit
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May 25, 2017 18:51
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The Godfather, if only by virtue of cutting the subplot about loose vaginas.
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May 25, 2017 18:51
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Number Ten Cocks posted:The Hobbit You best be referring to the Rankin and Bass version or we are gonna fight SomeMathGuy posted:The Godfather, if only by virtue of cutting the subplot about loose vaginas. Marlon Brando's face was still in the movie though 
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May 25, 2017 18:52
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L.A. Confidential. I mean, the book is good too, but it's radically different and spans decades. And the whole Rollo Tomasi device was made up for the movie. It's a good thing it won an Oscar for best adaptation, because I can't think of a movie that has changed so much from the source book and still delivered something that good.
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May 25, 2017 19:11
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