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MrBling posted:It is a very small number of people that actually gets paid of WWE airs stuff with them. Wouldn't the fact that Ventura gets paid open the door for the rest of them to get paid royalties as well? Unless it has to do woth owninghis gimick or whatever but it's pretty amazing that WWE is still allowed to get away with this kind of "independent contractor" bullshit.
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Dec 26, 2011 23:29
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MrBling posted:It is a very small number of people that actually gets paid of WWE airs stuff with them. They get something. Lance Storm said he receives miniscule royalties for some Divas photoshoot video because he must be in the background of a backstage segment.
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Dec 26, 2011 23:30
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WeaselWeaz posted:They get something. Lance Storm said he receives miniscule royalties for some Divas photoshoot video because he must be in the background of a backstage segment. Well yeah, but I was assuming he meant actual substantial royalties. maniacripper posted:Wouldn't the fact that Ventura gets paid open the door for the rest of them to get paid royalties as well? Unless it has to do woth owninghis gimick or whatever but it's pretty amazing that WWE is still allowed to get away with this kind of "independent contractor" bullshit. Ventura had to sue WWE for misrepresenting his contract and fraud to get his royalties. There's a reason WWE does their utmost to never ever feature him in anything. Vince knows how to hold a grudge.
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Dec 26, 2011 23:31
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The royalties issue is going to be interesting given how little revenue the network is going to bring in at first, but to me the most interesting issue is PPV payoffs. If they remove 8 PPVs a year and put them on the network, that is a big chunk of change out of the pockets of the wrestlers. WWE can pay out the token royalties and take the loss, but can they also cover the shortfall in the wrestler's bottom line or tell them to shove it?
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Dec 26, 2011 23:37
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MassRayPer posted:The royalties issue is going to be interesting given how little revenue the network is going to bring in at first, but to me the most interesting issue is PPV payoffs. If they remove 8 PPVs a year and put them on the network, that is a big chunk of change out of the pockets of the wrestlers. WWE can pay out the token royalties and take the loss, but can they also cover the shortfall in the wrestler's bottom line or tell them to shove it? Do PPV payoffs come from the gate or from the buys?
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Dec 26, 2011 23:39
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Timby posted:Do PPV payoffs come from the gate or from the buys? Both. Wrestlers get a percentage of the gate for every show but they also get a cut of PPV revenue. This has caused some problems in recent years. First when PPVs became dual branded lower card wrestlers from both brands (especially Smackdown) got left off PPVs and lost out. Then when buyrates started to die, everyone started making less money and started getting frustrated.
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Dec 26, 2011 23:42
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MassRayPer posted:Both. Wrestlers get a percentage of the gate for every show but they also get a cut of PPV revenue. This has caused some problems in recent years. First when PPVs became dual branded lower card wrestlers from both brands (especially Smackdown) got left off PPVs and lost out. Then when buyrates started to die, everyone started making less money and started getting frustrated. Thanks for the clarification. I was always under the impression that the wrestlers got paid based upon appearing on the show, followed by their placement on the show (so the guys in the dark match still got a base payday, but the dudes in the main event got a bigger check), and then later a cut of the gate, while WWE just pocketed everything after the split with the PPV providers.
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Dec 26, 2011 23:46
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Timby posted:Thanks for the clarification. I was always under the impression that the wrestlers got paid based upon appearing on the show, followed by their placement on the show (so the guys in the dark match still got a base payday, but the dudes in the main event got a bigger check), and then later a cut of the gate, while WWE just pocketed everything after the split with the PPV providers. My understanding is WWE contracts work this way: Wrestlers are guaranteed a base pay. I think for the main roster the minimum is 60-70,000 (bigger stars have bigger bases.) So no matter what a wrestler under contract will make that. They also receive incentives based on: Live Gates PPV Revenue Merchandise/Licensing So you technically wouldn't get paid anything just for being at the show, although I guess your base pay is sort of that. The incentives are tricky because they are not ON TOP of your base pay, that is to say they are not a bonus. Let's say you are Stevie Richards before the ECW revival and you are almost never on TV. You are paid your base pay, but you will NOT get extra money for being in the pre Wrestlemania battle royal or in the Royal Rumble because those two appearances are worth less than your base pay. However if you are Kofi Kingston, your cut of gate + PPV + merch will exceed your base pay so your base pay doesn't even matter, you might be doubling that. Unless you get injured, then it sure matters. But you won't get your base plus your cut of the other stuff, you will just get the value of the other stuff.
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Dec 27, 2011 00:09
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Yeah, I knew about the downside guarantees and the merch revenues. I just wasn't aware that the PPV buys factored into their pay.
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Dec 27, 2011 00:24
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I'm wondering how this lawsuit will be a factor in the future? If successful, would it open the flood gates to more payouts? http://www.cagesideseats.com/2011/12/7/2619550/wwe-sued-by-former-awa-star-pretty-boy-doug-somers-for-dvd-royalties
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Dec 27, 2011 01:18
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Dead Snoopy posted:I'm wondering how this lawsuit will be a factor in the future? If successful, would it open the flood gates to more payouts? I doubt there would be a flood of payouts as WWE is fairly proactive about tracking down wrestlers and estates to pay royalties.
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Dec 27, 2011 01:35
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Dead Snoopy posted:I'm wondering how this lawsuit will be a factor in the future? If successful, would it open the flood gates to more payouts? They may settle for a small amount but I don't see this resulting in much of a loss for WWE. There is plenty of history to show that wrestlers didn't get royalties for video tapes or syndication. That's also a major reason WWE gets guys under Legends deals.
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Dec 27, 2011 05:01
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In wondering about Hernandez's bordertoss and Inverted Sitout Powerbomb that nearly crippled Jessie Neal, how does a wrestler develop a move and how/do they test the move out to make sure that it's safe to use?
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Dec 29, 2011 20:24
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TV Zombie posted:In wondering about Hernandez's bordertoss and Inverted Sitout Powerbomb that nearly crippled Jessie Neal, how does a wrestler develop a move and how/do they test the move out to make sure that it's safe to use? It's more that practice makes perfect. With a move such as Border Toss working with smaller opponents weighing less probably made it easier to pull off. Granted I haven't watched much TNA recently but doesn't he actualy bend over whilst tossing the guy to make it look more dangerous than it actualy is? Speaking about top rope moves and their development during practice crashmats are used to measure distantance and gain confidence. Both Jericho and Foley mention in their books that they practiced aerial moves on stuffed gym bags also. I have no idea if people use suplex dummies in wrestling training like they do in MMA training.
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Dec 29, 2011 21:12
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A lot of wrestlers like to visit a wrestling school and then use the best student as a move dummy.
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Dec 29, 2011 21:55
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Lone Rogue posted:A lot of wrestlers like to visit a wrestling school and then use the best student as a move dummy. It's my understanding that some lovely schools also do that - basically getting the people to take the bumps without teaching them how to do the moves.
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Dec 29, 2011 22:16
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Writer Cath posted:It's my understanding that some lovely schools also do that - basically getting the people to take the bumps without teaching them how to do the moves. Some even go so far as to kick a new student in the head to teach them a lesson.
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Dec 29, 2011 22:19
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MisterGBH posted:It's more that practice makes perfect. With a move such as Border Toss working with smaller opponents weighing less probably made it easier to pull off. Granted I haven't watched much TNA recently but doesn't he actualy bend over whilst tossing the guy to make it look more dangerous than it actualy is? If there is one wrestler who doesnt need to make his poo poo look more dangerous... I wouldnt trust hernandez to shake my hand without fracturing my C1 vertebrate frankly. Theres a gif of him in some music video giving a bikini model a border toss into a swimming pool, and despite the fact the girl must weigh about half again what her bikini weighs, her head still only clears the edge of the pool by the width of a gnats baw-hair.
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Dec 29, 2011 23:26
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Some new moves are also botches of existing ones (e.g. diving headbutt). Plus, once you're trained and know what bump is for an existing move, you could kind of do iterative changes. Don't need arms to take this move? Bam, armtrap or straight jacket variant.
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Dec 30, 2011 00:16
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In some cases using a student as a pratice victim goes wrong. Great Khali accidentally killed a guy powerboming a student, although that has more to do with the trainers not realizing he was concussed after the first powerbomb (despite the student puking) and having him take another one.
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Dec 30, 2011 04:47
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El Gallinero Gros posted:In some cases using a student as a pratice victim goes wrong. Great Khali accidentally killed a guy powerboming a student, although that has more to do with the trainers not realizing he was concussed after the first powerbomb (despite the student puking) and having him take another one. Wait what? The great Khali had "students"? What did he teach them? How to be uncoordinated and locomotionally retarded?
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Dec 30, 2011 06:29
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MisterGBH posted:doesn't he actualy bend over whilst tossing the guy to make it look more dangerous than it actualy is? no. the way he does it is much worse...he just loving heaves his opponent without a care for how they come down.
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Dec 30, 2011 07:10
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jscolon2.0 posted:Some new moves are also botches of existing ones (e.g. diving headbutt). Plus, once you're trained and know what bump is for an existing move, you could kind of do iterative changes. Don't need arms to take this move? Bam, armtrap or straight jacket variant. What's the story behind the diving headbutt being a botch? Just a splash that didn't dive far enough? Are there any other moves that were created by happy accident? I know the DDT was one, but there's presumably more.
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Dec 30, 2011 07:22
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apsouthern posted:What's the story behind the diving headbutt being a botch? Just a splash that didn't dive far enough? I think the Pedigree also started off as a botch similar to the DDT
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Dec 30, 2011 07:33
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apsouthern posted:What's the story behind the diving headbutt being a botch? Just a splash that didn't dive far enough? Yup. Harley Race talked about it a little when the Benoit concussion stuff began to come out.
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Dec 30, 2011 13:51
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Every time I think of the Border Toss I always think of that gif of hernandex doing it and then doing that stupid little jump/dance while they almost break their neck.
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Dec 30, 2011 14:07
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maniacripper posted:Wait what? The great Khali had "students"? No. When he was training with Roland Alexander's APW, he had been around for a while. I'll let the APW wiki article take it from here. Turns out it was a flapjack, not a powerbomb: "APW suffered a wrongful death lawsuit to the family of APW Boot Camp trainee, Brian Ong. On May 28, 2001, Ong was training with fellow trainee Dalip Singh, despite suffering from an earlier concussion. Singh delivered a flapjack to Ong twice, with the second with his head striking the mat and worsening his concussion.[2] He was pronounced dead on arrival to a local hospital. Ong's family sued APW for reckless behavior. The case was filed in September 2002, and the trial was underway on June 10, 2005. After a three-week trial, on July 12, the jury voted unanimously in favor of the Ong family. APW was forced to pay $1.3 million to the Ong family.[3]"
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Dec 30, 2011 16:24
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jscolon2.0 posted:Yup. Harley Race talked about it a little when the Benoit concussion stuff began to come out.
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Dec 30, 2011 20:31
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apsouthern posted:What's the story behind the diving headbutt being a botch? Just a splash that didn't dive far enough?
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Dec 30, 2011 21:07
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Perigryn posted:The Ganso Bomb came about when Kawada's arm was broken and he couldn't hold Misawa up properly. Kawada's use of it started there, but an extremely similar (and safer) version was used by Rick Rude 10 years before Kawada did it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqG4CfGf4cU I also found this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQwuf8ohntM I don't know how old it is, but apparently the man in yellow is an unmasked Ultimo Dragon so I am pretty sure it predates Kawada's.
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Dec 30, 2011 21:46
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45ShadesOfDeath posted:url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqG4CfGf4cU[/url] quote:they really need to bring back steroids and cocaine into wrestling Likes: 28
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Dec 30, 2011 22:08
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Lone Rogue posted:Likes: 28 To be fair if that happened there wouldn't be as much stagnation in the product. You try to pull that stop and start bullshit with a locker room filled with roided up coked out maniacs. Hell, Vince might start pushing people since he'd see more of himself in them.
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Dec 30, 2011 22:27
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Gonzo McFee posted:To be fair if that happened there wouldn't be as much stagnation in the product. You try to pull that stop and start bullshit with a locker room filled with roided up coked out maniacs. Hell, Vince might start pushing people since he'd see more of himself in them. To be fair, shut up.
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Dec 30, 2011 22:35
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Cocaine helps you get things done and steroids make you swoll as poo poo. There is 0 downside to either and you're spitting in the face of human evolution if you aren't using the tools science has given us.
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Dec 30, 2011 22:39
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:To be fair, shut up. Ah yes, because I was 100% serious and was really advocating the use of cocaine and steroids for career purposes. You plonker.
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Dec 30, 2011 22:46
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Gonzo McFee posted:Ah yes, because I was 100% serious and was really advocating the use of cocaine and steroids for career purposes. Yes excellent shitpost. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 30, 2011 22:50
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With all the steroid use back in those days, I'm actually shocked that there aren't more stories of serious confrontations backstage. How did they manage to get roided up in that kind of locker room, spend every night pretending to want to kill each other, and not wind up with serious assaults and the like? Even just a too-stiff chop or a sloppy suplex could have sent one of them into a fury. I remember hearing that Savage was psychotically "protective" of Elizabeth. Did anything ever come of that? Did anyone end up with broken bones because they dared to talk to her?
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Dec 30, 2011 22:59
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ABOUT DRUGS posted:With all the steroid use back in those days, I'm actually shocked that there aren't more stories of serious confrontations backstage. How did they manage to get roided up in that kind of locker room, spend every night pretending to want to kill each other, and not wind up with serious assaults and the like? Even just a too-stiff chop or a sloppy suplex could have sent one of them into a fury. I guess you've never heard of Dynamite Kid... Also, some of the toughest guys in the business were calm and collected like Haku.
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Dec 30, 2011 23:01
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See, Hogan wasn't passing out the pot back in the day because he was a huge hypocrite, he was just trying to keep the peace, brother.
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Dec 30, 2011 23:01
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Lone Rogue posted:I guess you've never heard of Dynamite Kid... Didn't Haku bite a man's nose off during a bar brawl? Or is that the joke?
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Dec 30, 2011 23:24
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