GPU Megat[H]read - the cores of wrath grew heavy on the die that day

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > GPU Megat[H]read - the cores of wrath grew heavy on the die that day

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Daviclond: May 20, 2006; Bad post sighted! Firing.

Alereon posted:

I think we're jumping the gun just a tad here, it seems FAR more likely that this one developer was either using it wrong or encountered a driver bug than that Maxwell 2 doesn't actually support this claimed feature in hardware.

So uhh Robert Hallock, AMD marketing head, had this to say on reddit:

quote:

Oxide effectively summarized my thoughts on the matter. NVIDIA claims "full support" for DX12, but conveniently ignores that Maxwell is utterly incapable of performing asynchronous compute without heavy reliance on slow context switching.

GCN has supported async shading since its inception, and it did so because we hoped and expected that gaming would lean into these workloads heavily. Mantle, Vulkan and DX12 all do. The consoles do (with gusto). PC games are chock full of compute-driven effects.

welp

# ? Aug 31, 2015 16:05

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# ? Jun 10, 2024 04:35

Incessant Excess: Aug 15, 2005; Cause of glitch:
Pretentiousness

Zero VGS posted:

Wiki has quite a few titles I've already played or are coming out soon as using UE4: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games#Unreal_Engine_4

Ark, Daylight, Dead Island 2, Dragon Quest XI, Eve: Valkyrie, Fable Legends, Street Fighter V, Tekken 7 are a few notables.

Edit: UE4 is also the go-to for any high-end VR titles right now, they're even making VR movies with it for the Rift

I'm not saying there aren't any UE4 games coming out anymore, just that a big chunk of the companies that published UE3 games has either moved to in-house engines (EA, Ubisoft, Codemasters) or folded/heavily scaled back (THQ, Sega, Midway). Square Enix does indeed have some console exclusive JRPGs announced that will use UE4, you're right, I was mainly thinking of their major western IPs which aren't console exclusive tho (Tomb Raider, Hitman, Deus Ex).

It's certainly possible that VR will do big business and UE4 becomes near ubiquitous again that way but thats in no way guaranteed.

# ? Aug 31, 2015 16:08

EmpyreanFlux: Mar 1, 2013; The AUDACITY! The IMPUDENCE! The unabated NERVE!

Combat Pretzel posted:

So what's again the release window of Pascal? If NVidia doesn't manage to retrofit working Async Compute on it, they've dropped the ball so much they're hosed.

Pascal looks to be Q3 2016, delayed since AMD is gobbling up HBM2 production for the RX 400 series and so far only Samsung has announced HBM2 production besides Hynix, and they're only starting in Q1 2016. RX 400 series is going to have a few months lead on Pascal, and early Q3 2016 honestly looks like a best case scenario for Nvidia, but if Samsung has awful yields Nvidia may be staring at a 2017 release, keeping in mind AMD will likely try to aquire as much HBM2 from Samsung as possible.

Daviclond posted:

So uhh Robert Hallock, AMD marketing head, had this to say on reddit:

welp

This is going to be yet another hilarious Nvidia release in which awesome on the surface cards will have no longevity, isn't it? 2 years from now someone will say "buy a used 290/390" if you're desperate for performance, but no one will mention the 970.

# ? Aug 31, 2015 16:11

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

Skuto posted:

There's also the issue that the consoles themselves have AMD GPUs.

Yeah, that's what I mean. They're focused on using AMD GPUs well, and their engines are designed for it.

Alereon posted:

I think we're jumping the gun just a tad here, it seems FAR more likely that this one developer was either using it wrong or encountered a driver bug than that Maxwell 2 doesn't actually support this claimed feature in hardware.

NVIDIA having weaker scheduling and asynchronous support has been hit by people in other contexts. It might not be catastrophically bad, but it's likely pretty bad even with an ideal driver. It's not about supporting it in the sense that it produces correct results, it's about whether it can be used efficiently.

I really hope we have a big fight here. AMD needs a win, and they've been working hard on async/scheduling for ages. It would be nice if it was good for more than just VR time warp.

# ? Aug 31, 2015 16:29

penus penus penus: Nov 9, 2014; by piss__donald

FaustianQ posted:

This is going to be yet another hilarious Nvidia release in which awesome on the surface cards will have no longevity, isn't it? 2 years from now someone will say "buy a used 290/390" if you're desperate for performance, but no one will mention the 970.

It will be a sad state of affairs if the phrase "buy a used 290" still exists next year

# ? Aug 31, 2015 16:33

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

FaustianQ posted:

This is going to be yet another hilarious Nvidia release in which awesome on the surface cards will have no longevity, isn't it? 2 years from now someone will say "buy a used 290/390" if you're desperate for performance, but no one will mention the 970.

That's always been the case for Nvidia's upper-tier products, but not so much for their mid-tier. The 660ti and 760 lasted pretty long on most PCs, and a lot of people will have trouble finding a reason to upgrade from the 970 if they get one because it's going to be "good enough" for a few years and people generally don't turn up their settings.

Well, unless 1440p monitors start selling for $300-400 and VR actually takes off, then welp :v:

# ? Aug 31, 2015 16:38

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

A 780 Ti is still a pretty competent card. (I should sell my old one while that's still the case.)

# ? Aug 31, 2015 16:41

Hiowf: Jun 28, 2013; We don't do .DOC in my cave.

quote:

It will be a sad state of affairs if the phrase "buy a used 290" still exists next year

Used video cards always have great value for the money.

# ? Aug 31, 2015 16:44

black.lion: Apr 1, 2004; For if he like a madman lived,
At least he like a wise one died.

I don't really follow any of the PC parts news and whatnot, I just want to know: Should I go ahead and upgrade my HD7950 to a GTX970 (or other), or should I wait for something new to happen in the next 6-9 months?

My goal is for the new MGS and the new Fallout to be on High-ish settings and run a smooth 60FPS on 1920x1080, my monitors aren't anything fancy.

black.lion fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Aug 31, 2015

# ? Aug 31, 2015 17:04

Alereon: Feb 6, 2004; Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed; College Slice

Subjunctive posted:

NVIDIA having weaker scheduling and asynchronous support has been hit by people in other contexts. It might not be catastrophically bad, but it's likely pretty bad even with an ideal driver. It's not about supporting it in the sense that it produces correct results, it's about whether it can be used efficiently.

The thing is that Maxwell and especially Maxwell 2 were supposed to greatly improve multi-tasking performance. While it's possible it didn't, or didn't noticeably, it also seems very possible to me that nVidia hasn't yet optimized drivers for features that games aren't using yet.

# ? Aug 31, 2015 17:06

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

Alereon posted:

The thing is that Maxwell and especially Maxwell 2 were supposed to greatly improve multi-tasking performance. While it's possible it didn't, or didn't noticeably, it also seems very possible to me that nVidia hasn't yet optimized drivers for features that games aren't using yet.

Maxwell did greatly improve multi-tasking performance....for CUDA compute.

How DX12 can't take advantage of that is a complete mystery.

# ? Aug 31, 2015 17:09

The_Franz: Aug 8, 2003

Truga posted:

On the other hand, console devs say async shaders give them a 30% FPS boost on ps4/xbone so who knows.

Most of the published graphs shown those big gains are when moving from pixel shaders to compute for image post-processing. Most likely it's from avoiding the overhead of the rasterization pipeline which you don't even need if you are just reading and writing values to a buffer.

# ? Aug 31, 2015 17:14

Mulva: Sep 13, 2011; It's about time for my once per decade ban for being a consistently terrible poster.

Pity the Nano is a hundred dollars over an amazing price point, I'd have probably thrown one in a super tiny itx case and called it a day.

# ? Aug 31, 2015 17:24

dont be mean to me: May 2, 2007; I'm interplanetary, bitch
Let's go to Mars

Anime Schoolgirl posted:

Maxwell did greatly improve multi-tasking performance....for CUDA compute.

How DX12 can't take advantage of that is a complete mystery.

Because then people might be able to do compute in human-relevant timeframes without buying Quadros, and nVidia figured games would just follow what nVidia wants because it always sorta worked before.

# ? Aug 31, 2015 17:40

sauer kraut: Oct 2, 2004

black.lion posted:

I don't really follow any of the PC parts news and whatnot, I just want to know: Should I go ahead and upgrade my HD7950 to a GTX970 (or other), or should I wait for something new to happen in the next 6-9 months?

My goal is for the new MGS and the new Fallout to be on High-ish settings and run a smooth 60FPS on 1920x1080, my monitors aren't anything fancy.

Probably not guaranteed 60fps all the time, but the 7950/280 is a drat fine card that will last another year for 1080p.
Wait for the next generation's 970/290, 9 months is about right.

# ? Aug 31, 2015 17:44

penus penus penus: Nov 9, 2014; by piss__donald

black.lion posted:

I don't really follow any of the PC parts news and whatnot, I just want to know: Should I go ahead and upgrade my HD7950 to a GTX970 (or other), or should I wait for something new to happen in the next 6-9 months?

My goal is for the new MGS and the new Fallout to be on High-ish settings and run a smooth 60FPS on 1920x1080, my monitors aren't anything fancy.

The ish part being important, but yes thats a good idea (without seeing actual benchmarks). Parts picking will give you better answers with links and stuff thats currently on sale and all that but youreon the right track

# ? Aug 31, 2015 17:45

Zero VGS: Aug 16, 2002; ASK ME ABOUT HOW HUMAN LIVES THAT MADE VIDEO GAME CONTROLLERS ARE WORTH MORE; Lipstick Apathy

Skuto posted:

Used video cards always have great value for the money.

The 290's will still be under warranty if you get MSI/Asus/Gigabyte too, that's a plus.

# ? Aug 31, 2015 17:58

Hace: Feb 13, 2012; <<Mobius 1, Engage.>>

This is all hilarious and I'm glad the GPU wars might yet live.

# ? Aug 31, 2015 18:31

Google Butt: Oct 4, 2005; Xenology is an unnatural mixture of science fiction and formal logic. At its core is a flawed assumption...

that an alien race would be psychologically human.

I asked this a bit ago, but given these new developments I thought I'd ask again. Currently have an evga 760 superclocked. I've been eyeing the acer xb270hu.. I was debating just getting the display and keeping the 760 hoping I can get solid fps in csgo at a low res/144hz while I wait for next gen cards. Looks like that is going to be longer than I want to wait.

Not really sure what to do now that the 980ti is out of my budget. I don't NEED to play new AAA games at ultra and 144hz, but high would be nice.

What do I do gpu thread?

# ? Aug 31, 2015 19:28

Alereon: Feb 6, 2004; Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed; College Slice

Google Butt posted:

I asked this a bit ago, but given these new developments I thought I'd ask again. Currently have an evga 760 superclocked. I've been eyeing the acer xb270hu.. I was debating just getting the display and keeping the 760 hoping I can get solid fps in csgo at a low res/144hz while I wait for next gen cards. Looks like that is going to be longer than I want to wait.

Not really sure what to do now that the 980ti is out of my budget. I don't NEED to play new AAA games at ultra and 144hz, but high would be nice.

What do I do gpu thread?

Don't buy a TN-panel based G-Sync monitor, that's a LOT of money to spend on a screen that looks like poo poo. That said, CS:GO has VERY low performance requirements so it's not like a high-end videocard is that critical to get acceptable framerates.

E: My bad, first Google results said that was TN.

Alereon fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Aug 31, 2015

# ? Aug 31, 2015 20:14

Don Lapre: Mar 28, 2001; If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.

Turn off vsync, turn on a framerate graph, are you hitting 144fps

# ? Aug 31, 2015 20:22

kojicolnair: Mar 18, 2009

Alereon posted:

Don't buy a TN-panel based G-Sync monitor, that's a LOT of money to spend on a screen that looks like poo poo. That said, CS:GO has VERY low performance requirements so it's not like a high-end videocard is that critical to get acceptable framerates.

The XB270hu is an IPS gsync monitor not TN.

# ? Aug 31, 2015 20:40

SlayVus: Jul 10, 2009; Grimey Drawer

What temps should I be getting with a 980 Ti? I feel mine is just way too hot for what it is. I'm getting thermally limited in benchmarks and games.

# ? Aug 31, 2015 20:44

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

SlayVus posted:

What temps should I be getting with a 980 Ti? I feel mine is just way too hot for what it is. I'm getting thermally limited in benchmarks and games.

should be around 80-85c on load

# ? Aug 31, 2015 20:45

Don Lapre: Mar 28, 2001; If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.

SlayVus posted:

What temps should I be getting with a 980 Ti? I feel mine is just way too hot for what it is. I'm getting thermally limited in benchmarks and games.

GPU Boost 2.0 will try to clock the card as high as possible until it thermally limits.

Stock it should throttle in the 82c range. You can safely increase it to 92c.

You can also set a custom fan curve to run the fans faster to bring temps down. But seriously, dont worry about it.

# ? Aug 31, 2015 20:51

SlayVus: Jul 10, 2009; Grimey Drawer

I'm not worried about it, I'm just trying to get more out of my card. Right now I'm looking at putting my IC-Diamond on the GPU and getting my copper shims to replace the VRAM thermal pads.

# ? Aug 31, 2015 21:09

Don Lapre: Mar 28, 2001; If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.

It honestly will probably do very little if anything for headroom. If you want to run cooler to oc more then do a custom fan curve.

# ? Aug 31, 2015 21:10

SlayVus: Jul 10, 2009; Grimey Drawer

Already using a CFC with Xtreme Tuner Plus. GALAX cards have a problem with CFCs from MSI AfterBurner for some reason, so I'm using GALAX's own tuner app.

# ? Aug 31, 2015 21:15

penus penus penus: Nov 9, 2014; by piss__donald

SlayVus posted:

I'm not worried about it, I'm just trying to get more out of my card. Right now I'm looking at putting my IC-Diamond on the GPU and getting my copper shims to replace the VRAM thermal pads.

Repasting does wonders, however what temps are you getting? I cannot hit any kind of thermal limit with mine with any settings (MSI), and in this case stock paste.

edit: btw, be prepared for "case flow!!" as a culprit here if the temps are indeed abnormal

penus penus penus fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Aug 31, 2015

# ? Aug 31, 2015 21:22

Don Lapre: Mar 28, 2001; If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.

Wow, thats really aggressive. What temps are you hitting?

I run 65% @ 80c on a ref cooler titan x and am around 80c-83c in an sli config

# ? Aug 31, 2015 21:23

SlayVus: Jul 10, 2009; Grimey Drawer

6 runs of the Metro 2033 Benchmark. Max is 89c with Temp Target at 90.

# ? Aug 31, 2015 21:38

Josh Lyman: May 24, 2009

Every day that passes is another day I have buyer's remorse about swapping my 290 for a 970.

# ? Aug 31, 2015 21:41

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

Josh Lyman posted:

Every day that passes is another day I have buyer's remorse about swapping my 290 for a 970.

At least you're using 40 less watts.

# ? Aug 31, 2015 21:44

DrDork: Dec 29, 2003; commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Josh Lyman posted:

Every day that passes is another day I have buyer's remorse about swapping my 290 for a 970.

You really shouldn't. The 970 is the better card NOW, and is likely to remain that way for the next year+. Sure, somewhere in the future async randomness may be something to care about, but by then there'll be at least one, if not two new generations of cards, and in the meantime you can enjoy a card that excels at the games you can actually play right now.

# ? Aug 31, 2015 21:45

Hace: Feb 13, 2012; <<Mobius 1, Engage.>>

It'd be really funny if Nvidia prevented developers from using Async shaders in GameWorks games.

# ? Aug 31, 2015 21:47

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

Hace posted:

It'd be really funny if Nvidia prevented developers from using Async shaders in GameWorks games.

It would also be the least surprising thing. The really funny part is that it would also hamper their Pascal/Volta designs since they're going to be more GCN-like.

DrDork posted:

You really shouldn't. The 970 is the better card NOW, and is likely to remain that way for the next year+. Sure, somewhere in the future async randomness may be something to care about, but by then there'll be at least one, if not two new generations of cards, and in the meantime you can enjoy a card that excels at the games you can actually play right now.

On the other hand, if you want to save 50 dollars you aren't missing much by going with a 290/discounted 390 instead.

Anime Schoolgirl fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Aug 31, 2015

# ? Aug 31, 2015 21:50

Don Lapre: Mar 28, 2001; If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.

SlayVus posted:

6 runs of the Metro 2033 Benchmark. Max is 89c with Temp Target at 90.

You have something wrong with your setup. No way should you be hitting those temps with your fans going at 95% unless there is no way for fresh air to get in or hot air to get out.

Take a picture of your pc with the side off.

# ? Aug 31, 2015 21:50