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Yeah, a creator can't control who likes their product. I 100% agree with that. They can however tell Nazis "It's not for you, gently caress off" instead of shrugging their shoulders and going "welp, what can you do?". They can also step back and ask themselves why Nazis are identifying their product as a Nazi product. That's what SwedeDracula's response is to, people noticing their product is repeats a lot of Nazi talking points and viewpoints.
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Jul 9, 2018 21:23
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Mr. Maltose posted:I’m glad I can put a little joy in your life my dude. It's as meaningful as your life is ever going to get, friendo. MollyMetroid posted:Except that in 2018 not stopping to examine the content you're putting out and questioning whether this appeals in particular to that branch of the broad spectrum of humanity is at best completely loving idiotic. At best. Anyone who claims that they're coincidentally doing something that appeals to the nazis needs to examine how the gently caress they could hit the same themes without appealing to the nazis specifically, and if there's no way to do those themes without appealing to the nazis specifically, should loving well step back and not make that product. Because knowingly releasing something that's specifically appealing to nazis? That's marketing to the nazis, whether you want to admit it or not. Man, just read this again: http://www.dogwithdice.com/whitewolfaredead/ There's obviously an aspect of vampire that appeals to these people; superiority to ordinary humans, bloodlines, sins of the father, the whole rapey aspect. Did they set deliberately out to make it like that? Are OPP's current authors knowingly and happily buying into this IRL? No! But it's going to be very, very difficult to excise those aspects without diminishing the work for everyone.
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Jul 9, 2018 21:26
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Kibner posted:Dalu, Gauru, and Urshul forms all apply Defense on Firearms attacks. Thank you, yes, and Soonmot said this character is the nemesis of one who always uses urshul so would normally be a bullet dodger.
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Jul 9, 2018 21:26
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Gumball Gumption posted:If you find out Nazis like your work and your response isn't telling them to gently caress off and die then you're part of the problem.
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Jul 9, 2018 21:33
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Nessus posted:Aye. Tolkien took pains to tell Nazis off even before the war, for instance. When trying to get a German translation for the Hobbit printed shortly before World War 2, he had a publishing house ask him for proof of Aryan heritage before they'd proceed, to which he replied with one of two possible letters he wrote - it's unclear which got sent. I vastly prefer to think it was the one that said this (emphasis my own): quote:Thank you for your letter. I regret that I am not clear as to what you intend by arisch. I am not of Aryan extraction: that is Indo-Iranian; as far as I am aware none of my ancestors spoke Hindustani, Persian, Gypsy, or any related dialects. But if I am to understand that you are enquiring whether I am of Jewish origin, I can only reply that I regret that I appear to have no ancestors of that gifted people. My great-great-grandfather came to England in the eighteenth century from Germany: the main part of my descent is therefore purely English, and I am an English subject - which should be sufficient. I have been accustomed, nonetheless, to regard my German name with pride, and continued to do so throughout the period of the late regrettable war, in which I served in the English army. I cannot, however, forbear to comment that if impertinent and irrelevant inquiries of this sort are to become the rule in matters of literature, then the time is not far distant when a German name will no longer be a source of pride.
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Jul 9, 2018 21:38
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Nessus posted:Aye. Tolkien took pains to tell Nazis off even before the war, for instance. Right, and you still have people who buy into Lord of the Rings as a racial narrative, even today. It's just going to be a thing. I mean, admittedly, this whole Lord of the Rings extended universe thing going on where Shelob the spider also has a sexy human form, and was totally loving Sauron before the movies, and was the EVIL version of Galadriel is a way to turn them off. But I'd like to think it turns lots of people off.
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Jul 9, 2018 21:38
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Bedlamdan posted:It's as meaningful as your life is ever going to get, friendo. And yet somehow, Rose Bailey managed. somehow.
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Jul 9, 2018 21:40
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Rose managed just fine, yeah. Oh no, some nazis still like it. Big loving deal, we'll tell them to gently caress off. That's not what's happening with WW here though. You're not actually arguing a coherent point at this point, just moving goalposts around.
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Jul 9, 2018 21:43
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The issue is not that "some nazis might like it." It's that "the content" includes examples of play where 1,4,8,8 gets rolled and the head skeev signs his emails with a play on "Blood and Soil." This is stuffing your product with catnip and then feigning surprise when it finds a feline audience.
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Jul 9, 2018 21:51
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moths posted:The issue is not that "some nazis might like it."
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Jul 9, 2018 21:56
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moths posted:The issue is not that "some nazis might like it." Yeah, I mean, he's obviously going out of his way to appeal to specific people when he makes jokes about triggering via the Brujah. It's just that merely appealing to this or that demographic is in itself not a sin, look at what they're actually writing instead!
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Jul 9, 2018 22:05
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moths posted:It's that "the content" includes examples of play where 1,4,8,8 gets rolled and the head skeev signs his emails with a play on "Blood and Soil." I don't like the guy but he just said Blood and Souls, which are kinda a vampire thing (it pops up in the books all the time). If anything I think it's a takeoff of Requiem's Blood and Smoke (which was a good title).
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Jul 9, 2018 22:05
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Bedlamdan posted:Yeah, I mean, he's obviously going out of his way to appeal to specific people when he makes jokes about triggering via the Brujah. gently caress off.
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Jul 9, 2018 22:08
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MollyMetroid posted:gently caress off. Well okay then. Actually guys, what people write doesn't matter whatsoever, what matters is the political leanings of its various fanclubs, and also I am Hitler and love the Brujah.
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Jul 9, 2018 22:10
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Fortnite edited a texture that could unintentionally be manipulated into a swastika because even the appearance of sympathy for these guys is that toxic. There's a 1 in 10,000 chance the dice "just came up that way," and an even smaller chance that everybody involved in production missed it. Bedlamdan posted:It's just that merely appealing to this or that demographic is in itself not a sin, look at what they're actually writing instead! First, neo nazis are not "this or that demographic." Second, their crime isn't appealing to them - it's that they're actively courting humanity's worst elements to sell pretendy-time funbooks. moths fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Jul 9, 2018 |
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Jul 9, 2018 22:11
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The best reading of this is them saying "Hey, we can still spend Nazi cash" which is very lovely and puts money over people. The worst reading is that they're Nazis making a game for Nazis. There is no good position in this for NuWW.Bedlamdan posted:Yeah, I mean, he's obviously going out of his way to appeal to specific people when he makes jokes about triggering via the Brujah. Seriously, gently caress off.
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Jul 9, 2018 22:18
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moths posted:First, neo nazis are not "this or that demographic." When did I say they weren't? Just that what they're writing (stuff that either obliquely or directly reinforces the talking points of bad things) is more important and meaningful criticism than the fact that the pretendy-time funbooks might have a fandom made up of the bad people. Bedlamdan fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Jul 9, 2018 |
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Jul 9, 2018 22:18
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Seriously guys just put Bedlamdan on ignore and move on.
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Jul 9, 2018 22:20
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Apparently that blog post did not go far enough in separating nuWolf and OPP and now some OPP people are getting death threats sent their direction which is real lovely.
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Jul 9, 2018 22:20
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Meinberg posted:Apparently that blog post did not go far enough in separating nuWolf and OPP and now some OPP people are getting death threats sent their direction which is real lovely. The fact that this blows onto OPP is actually NuWW's biggest crime tbh
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Jul 9, 2018 22:21
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Gumball Gumption posted:The fact that this blows onto OPP is actually NuWW's biggest crime tbh I won't be surprised if NuWW tries to throw OPP under the bus during all of this.
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Jul 9, 2018 22:23
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Gumball Gumption posted:Seriously, gently caress off. Okay, guys, it took a lot of work, but I stand here now, corrected and chastised. If the Nazis decide Batman is cool, it's actually Bob Kane's fault for making a buff dude in black assaulting the mentally ill so glamorous in the first place. Meinberg posted:Apparently that blog post did not go far enough in separating nuWolf and OPP and now some OPP people are getting death threats sent their direction which is real lovely. Consider the possibility that the people sending death threats based on the say-so of a blog post critical of a pretendy-time funbook are actually hosed up, and assholes. Bedlamdan fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Jul 9, 2018 |
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Jul 9, 2018 22:25
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The 1/10,000 figure was mine and is wrong. Under the circumstances it's closer to two or three percent.
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Jul 9, 2018 22:40
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Bedlamdan posted:It's hosed up, but sometimes people can accept that a work doesn't project their own ideologies and gives them an attaboy, and sometimes these are the people who we consider the Enemy. I mean, I guess you could try something ridiculous that panders exclusively to the exact opposite extreme, but you can't deny the work suffers doing it ala Beast Lmao nothing in this has to do with what I said you dipshit In other news someone showed me the dice roll thing and yowza
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Jul 9, 2018 22:42
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Bedlamdan posted:Okay, guys, it took a lot of work, but I stand here now, corrected and chastised. If the Nazis decide Batman is cool, it's actually Bob Kane's fault for making a buff dude in black assaulting the mentally ill so glamorous in the first place. You disingenuous moron this is a game where a clan weakness is "triggered" and they give the totally random example of a dice roll of 1,4,8 and 8 This is absolutely a game that is courting Nazis, gently caress all the way off
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Jul 9, 2018 22:43
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Rand Brittain posted:The 1/10,000 figure was mine and is wrong. Under the circumstances it's closer to two or three percent. No, you're right. That assumes the dice were innocently rolled in that order. The higher figure reflects those numbers coming up and someone decided to put them in Hitler order. But honestly nobody actually rolls dice for a play example. Those numbers were plucked straight out of somebody's alr-right rear end in a top hat.
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Jul 9, 2018 22:45
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:Lmao nothing in this has to do with what I said you dipshit Okay, you can in fact discourage people from consuming media by making it antithetical to their world view. Fuckin' Norman Spinrad got the American Nazi Party to recommend The Iron Dream, but it's still deffo doable! Thanks, bitch. BENGHAZI 2 posted:You disingenuous moron this is a game where a clan weakness is "triggered" and they give the totally random example of a dice roll of 1,4,8 and 8 It probably is! What matters more is that they're actually writing things that are courting them, you dumb bitch baby, not that the Nazis happen to feel courted by what is or is not written. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 9, 2018 22:46
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Bedlamdan posted:Okay, you can in fact discourage people from consuming media by making it antithetical to their world view. Fuckin' Norman Spinrad got the American Nazi Party to recommend The Iron Dream, but it's still deffo doable! Thanks, bitch. Oh so it's literally just a semantic difference you're making up so that you can pick fights, gently caress off Also I'm not going to buy the incredibly Nazi friendly white wolf book qed it is possible to dissuade people from.buying things by making those things antithetical to their world view
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Jul 9, 2018 22:50
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:Oh so it's literally just a semantic difference you're making up so that you can pick fights, gently caress off "It's not my fault I can't read and just shitpost for the sake of dunking on you, you're just not dumbing this poo poo down enough for me!" Bedlamdan posted:I disagree with Zereth that thoughts or opinions don't really matter, as it's not on a creator if the wrong sort of people decide they like his creation
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Jul 9, 2018 22:51
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Bedlamdan posted:"It's not my fault I can't read and just shitpost for the sake of dunking on you, you're just not dumbing this poo poo down enough for me!" Are you retarded
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Jul 9, 2018 22:53
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I finally caved in and pre-ordered Trinity because of this. I wanted to support OPP.
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Jul 9, 2018 22:55
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:Are you retarded Why you so mad when I say the Nazis can like things they're ostensibly not allowed to like, and being liked by Nazis can happen without it actually being your fault? This isn't meant to be controversial, we had people agreeing with that upthread, mongoloid. Bitch it ain't my fault that you want to project an argument you're really horny for on me. Dumb bitch baby. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 9, 2018 22:56
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Bedlamdan posted:Why you so mad when I say the Nazis can like things they're ostensibly not allowed to like, and being liked by Nazis can happen without it actually being your fault? This isn't meant to be controversial, we had people agreeing with that upthread, mongoloid. Are you retarded
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Jul 9, 2018 22:57
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:Are you retarded Well, I'm here so Yes.
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Jul 9, 2018 22:59
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As fun and constructive as interacting with Bedlamdan is, can we stop loving slinging slurs about arguing about elfgames, christ.
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Jul 9, 2018 23:00
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Mr. Maltose posted:As fun and constructive as interacting with Bedlamdan is, can we stop loving slinging slurs about arguing about elfgames, christ. Are you retarded
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Jul 9, 2018 23:01
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Mr. Maltose posted:As fun and constructive as interacting with Bedlamdan is, can we stop loving slinging slurs about arguing about elfgames, christ. No
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Jul 9, 2018 23:05
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Jul 9, 2018 23:07
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I suffer from developmental disabilities that have stunted my motor skills and I'm autistic. Yes, you shitpiece, I am.
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Jul 9, 2018 23:08
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Mr. Maltose posted:I suffer from developmental disabilities that have stunted my motor skills and I'm autistic. Yes, you shitpiece, I am. It was rhetorical. Admittedly it does explain things, and I'm pretty sorry for ragging on you upthread now.
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Jul 9, 2018 23:10
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