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Uncle Jam posted:They are basically two separate countries, there isn't really a previous similar situation. North and South Vietnam also. 
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Apr 14, 2017 23:19
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Fiction posted:I think NK would only hit US military objectives and not civilian targets. lol 😂
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Apr 14, 2017 23:23
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Fiction posted:I think NK would only hit US military objectives and not civilian targets. I wouldn't bet on it.
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Apr 14, 2017 23:24
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North Korea is notorious for its value of human life and dignity
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Apr 14, 2017 23:34
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To be fair it's questionable whether North Korea's dinky-rear end missiles could even hit any US civilian targets.
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Apr 14, 2017 23:35
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I was thinking SK civilian targets. Or here in Japan. I first moved to Japan about 13 years ago, and shortly after experienced my first NK missile launch towards us. Or was that one of the ones that went all the way over Japan? I forget. I was pretty shocked but for everyone else here it was business as usual. Today does not feel like business as usual though. edit: Not to me, I mean. The media here is mostly treating it like business as usual. Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Apr 15, 2017 |
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Apr 14, 2017 23:36
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taking "the rok and dprk hate each other" as a given is an ahistorical perspective and erases the many many people in south korea who want the us out
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Apr 15, 2017 00:16
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North Korean TV Should be going live in 10 minutes or so edit: new stream https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3yjlaLPFRA karlor fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Apr 15, 2017 |
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Apr 15, 2017 00:23
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https://www.pscp.tv/annafifield/1yoJMeovmZwJQ Washington Post reporter Anna Fifield is commentating on the event. E: https://twitter.com/r0eland/lists/dprk-journalists This is also a decent twitter list I have followed today. Lots better than the crap on a search for DPRK or North Korea Dehry fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Apr 15, 2017 |
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Apr 15, 2017 02:43
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Is it safe for me to go to bed and expect to wake up without Seoul having been nuked?
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Apr 15, 2017 02:57
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Tokyo will be nuked before Seoul. Also this won't happen today so go to bed.
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Apr 15, 2017 03:00
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By the way, what kind of civil defense preparations do people keep up in Seoul? I am not really expecting an attack on Japan today but I finally put a complete emergency kit together, which I had been putting off for weeks. I hope Trump is enjoying his golfing.
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Apr 15, 2017 03:03
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chitoryu12 posted:Is it safe for me to go to bed and expect to wake up without Seoul having been nuked? Yes, but because North Korea doesn't have that capability. Rather than because Trump/Kim Jong Un won't do something stupid.
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Apr 15, 2017 03:05
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fishmech posted:East Germany and West Germany: definitely not two separate countries somehow. Yeah right. Literally even created in the same way, too. Created the same way? So East Germany was in a war with West Germany and pushed them back from the Polish border to what would be armistice lines? South Korea governs half of Pyongyang and huge economic influx comes with it? South Koreans can day trip whenever they want to spend Won? The border was pretty much completely porous for a decade, and pretty easy to get through for another decade after the war? Korea was the economic powerhouse of SE Asia for hundreds of years? loving hell, they were hardly ever an independent state completely detached from China. Not to mention the DPRK and GDR governments were set up in completely different ways... Berlin wall was only up for 28 years, the only Korean remembering a non-divided Korea would be north of 75 now.
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Apr 15, 2017 03:49
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I mean, poo poo, it only took the #2 superpower to fall into complete economic ruin and the biggest geopolitical shift to happen in the last 80 years for Germany to be reunited. If China implodes and starts spinning off provinces like Tibet and Uighur and the Kim dynasty being wiped out then I can imagine Korea beginning to reunify.
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Apr 15, 2017 04:09
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Uncle Jam posted:Created the same way? So East Germany was in a war with West Germany and pushed them back from the Polish border to what would be armistice lines? North and South Korea weren't created with the Korean War, huge sweeping internal changes had been going on in both since almost immediately after partition. The war just solidified things. I'm not really familiar with how the German partition went though, although I imagine considerably more thought was put into it than for the "two dudes and an evening with a tiny map" approach that Korea got. quote:Korea was the economic powerhouse of SE Asia for hundreds of years? loving hell, they were hardly ever an independent state completely detached from China. Germany hadn't really been Europe's power economy for especially long, and Korea was plenty independent, just under the constraints of the Sino-centric world order that'd defined East Asia for more than a thousand years. When Qing tried to redefine the relationship according to the western model (i.e. make Korea into an actual vassal) in the late 19th century, Joseon flipped a poo poo. Not that they could do much by that point. fishmech posted:Everyone involved when the first division was made in 1945, and the readjustment after the war in the early 50s, was under the impression that one side would quickly take over the whole thing This is definitely true for both Koreas at the time, but not really the US or Soviets, especially not when the partition was first introduced. It was supposed to be a temporary trusteeship and from my understanding, at the start the US had every expectation of it being just that, followed by peaceful reunification. Not that the US had much of any idea what they were doing in Korea at the time.
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Apr 15, 2017 04:28
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SKULL.GIF posted:https://twitter.com/mhanham/status/853083302307086336 welp. they have ICBMs and other new missiles.
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Apr 15, 2017 04:39
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Dapper_Swindler posted:welp. they have ICBMs and other new missiles.
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Apr 15, 2017 04:43
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https://twitter.com/ArmsControlWonk/status/853086928668827649 https://twitter.com/ArmsControlWonk/status/853087973243355136 Some of other new stuff. Mobile ICBMs.
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Apr 15, 2017 04:44
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Uncle Jam posted:Created the same way? . Yes after world War II the allies split up both Korea and Germany (and for that matter Austria). The boundaries of the North and South today are very similar to the 1945-1946 "temporary division" boundaries, modified by troop positions at Korean armistice. Both South and North were independent countries during the war already. It's really shocking how ignorant you are, here.
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Apr 15, 2017 04:44
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Samurai Sanders posted:Maybe a stupid question but why does seeing that mock-up mean that they have the real thing too? It doesn't.
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Apr 15, 2017 04:48
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Kind of a dangerous thing to assume on though.
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Apr 15, 2017 04:51
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Samurai Sanders posted:Maybe a stupid question but why does seeing that mock-up mean that they have the real thing too? Not necessarily. They tend to show this stuff to brag that they have what they actually don't - it's an old Soviet trick (I believe) That being said, they are on their way to having something similar. They've had multiple successes with testing solid fuel rocket engine so it shouldn't be too long until they actually have a working prototype that doesn't explode on launch
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Apr 15, 2017 05:07
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Fojar38 posted:It doesn't.
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Apr 15, 2017 05:11
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Koramei posted:This is definitely true for both Koreas at the time, but not really the US or Soviets, especially not when the partition was first introduced. It was supposed to be a temporary trusteeship and from my understanding, at the start the US had every expectation of it being just that, followed by peaceful reunification. Not that the US had much of any idea what they were doing in Korea at the time. yes the us expected the trusteeship to presage peaceful unification which is why they refused to acknowledge the peninsula-wide provisional government and forced sham elections under military fiat
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Apr 15, 2017 05:17
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Ron Darling posted:Not necessarily. They tend to show this stuff to brag that they have what they actually don't - it's an old Soviet trick (I believe) IIRC the trick the Soviets used was with an armament they did in fact have and deployed, but didn't have a lot of them yet; the trick resulted in the Bomber Gap hysteria.
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Apr 15, 2017 05:18
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R. Guyovich posted:yes the us expected the trusteeship to presage peaceful unification which is why they refused to acknowledge the peninsula-wide provisional government and forced sham elections under military fiat I never said they had the best interests of the Koreans in mind, quite the contrary. FDR wanted trusteeship to last for 60 years. But the US mismanaging the division doesn't mean they had an expectation of it devolving into war. Also that's really not how the elections went down but considering your name and avatar, I don't really feel like arguing that point. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 15, 2017 05:25
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Raenir Salazar posted:IIRC the trick the Soviets used was with an armament they did in fact have and deployed, but didn't have a lot of them yet; the trick resulted in the Bomber Gap hysteria. Ah ok thanks! Then again, the Soviets had far more resources than the DPRK ever did so I guess they had to make do
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Apr 15, 2017 05:27
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Koramei posted:I never said they had the best interests of the Koreans in mind, quite the contrary. FDR wanted trusteeship to last for 60 years. But the US mismanaging the division doesn't mean they had an expectation of it devolving into war. quote:Neither do I! User loses posting privileges for 6 hours. Saltier than Mamma Kim's Kimchi
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Apr 15, 2017 05:35
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heres a hint: if you think someone's username/avatar makes it not worth your time to reply to them — don't post about it
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Apr 15, 2017 05:38
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I feel sorry for North Koreans and hope they will someday find happiness 
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Apr 15, 2017 05:42
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Michael Bayleaf posted:I feel sorry for North Koreans and hope they will someday find happiness
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Apr 15, 2017 05:45
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Raenir Salazar posted:IIRC the trick the Soviets used was with an armament they did in fact have and deployed, but didn't have a lot of them yet; the trick resulted in the Bomber Gap hysteria. Yeah, they'd parade two bombers down then have them turn around and come back. We thought they had like 30 when we had none, so we built a shitload and by the 60s we had like 800 bombers and they had like 150.
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Apr 15, 2017 05:46
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Politics are politics People are people Together dancing to good music This time in Hangul
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Apr 15, 2017 05:54
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I guess my major concern is that north korea may have discovered a xian cave near the summit of Mount Baekdu, and found therein the secrets of immortal life
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Apr 15, 2017 05:56
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Samurai Sanders posted:In the end we all want the same things in life, happiness for ourselves and a better life for the next generation. I think the state of the world at this particular time suggests the Boomers don't give a poo poo about that last bit
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Apr 15, 2017 05:58
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Looks like 38north.org can't handle all this talk of war. It ran out of bandwidth and is unreachable 
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Apr 15, 2017 07:50
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The division of Korea was never intended to be permanent...but there was also never any roadmap for transitioning to a single Korea beyond "maybe the US and Soviets will get along better in a few years and one side will agree to peacefully give full control of Korea to the other??????", and it doesn't seem like anyone had much confidence in that plan even from the start. In the first place, there wasn't any reason to occupy and divide Korea aside from superpower politics; unlike Germany, Korea was an occupied country rather than a willing participant in the Axis, and therefore there was already a significant opposition movement that could have formed an independent Korean government without depending on the existing officials. Unfortunately for them, the US thought they were too communist and the Soviets thought they weren't communist enough.
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Apr 15, 2017 15:39
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Samurai Sanders posted:In the end we all want the same things in life, happiness for ourselves and a better life for the next generation. Governments can either help with that or gently caress it all up. Recent experience has shown just how easy it is for the latter to happen and makes me think we just aren't very good at this whole government thing as a species yet. Not entirely sure we have that much time to get it right tbqh
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Apr 15, 2017 16:15
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It also should be remembered that the West-East Germany unification was a deal between "the most advanced nation of the Soviet block" which was relatively well-off even against western standards, and very prosperous Western nation. And it almost bankrupted the country leaving several shortcomings which are an issue still today. That is completely different scale of things if compared to Korea, where one country is a technologically advanced modern society and the other one brainwashed leftist dictatorship existing mostly on thirty year old or older technology.
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Apr 15, 2017 18:46
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