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The only PoV I can offer is reducing the size just a little to save 500-1000 seems like a very near-sighted solution. The second you wish you had just a little more space you'll realize the cost savings were not worth it at all.
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Dec 22, 2020 17:36
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I guess there's no possibility of crane access, otherwise you could have a temp workshop dropped in about the right place on 6 piers, use it for a year and see whether you want to drop 50k on a better one (getting about 90% of your purchase price minus crane cost back on the temp one)
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Dec 22, 2020 18:03
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Do you plan to stay there forever? Do you actually need the space for any office type work, or is that part just a luxury - you appear to have a large house that’d do for that? Have you ever explored renting or having shared use of a workshop somewhere locally? I think in general the only garden building of that size that’d have enough value at resale would be if it was fully self contained as a granny flat with garden, or even a whole separate tiny-house type thing if it had separate access.
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Dec 22, 2020 18:16
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Do you have or plan to get a patio? You could get a small shed or closet just large enough to store your tools and do your hobbying outside. You could keep your tools while deciding on a permanent shop, and working outdoors means easyn cleanup, youou can literally just let the wind blow the dust away.
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Dec 22, 2020 22:22
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Not Wolverine posted:Do you have or plan to get a patio? You could get a small shed or closet just large enough to store your tools and do your hobbying outside. You could keep your tools while deciding on a permanent shop, and working outdoors means easyn cleanup, youou can literally just let the wind blow the dust away. He lives on Plague Island, so the rain would prevent working outside for most of the year.
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Dec 22, 2020 22:35
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The Dave posted:The only PoV I can offer is reducing the size just a little to save 500-1000 seems like a very near-sighted solution. The second you wish you had just a little more space you'll realize the cost savings were not worth it at all. It would be more than that but yes, I agree. Reducing the size down to 50sqm (from 64) would probably cut costs by like £10k. cakesmith handyman posted:I guess there's no possibility of crane access, otherwise you could have a temp workshop dropped in about the right place on 6 piers, use it for a year and see whether you want to drop 50k on a better one (getting about 90% of your purchase price minus crane cost back on the temp one) It would have to be able to crane it about 50m from a tight residential street, over the house, which feels like a tough ask. wooger posted:Do you plan to stay there forever? This is the question. Best guess right now is that I'm going to be here 10 more years at least, just based on my current trajectory, and this is a growing town (with house prices to match). Ironically (and I'm perhaps giving too much away here, so folks don't do internet detectiving), but I chose it for a balance between cost and access to London, which is now moot. I'm sure things will reset somewhat after the plague, but remote work is more popular now (and it's always been my preferred option). I would eventually like to move to a (disused?) farm type place eventually. But that's beaucoup bucks and may never happen. wooger posted:Do you actually need the space for any office type work, or is that part just a luxury - you appear to have a large house that’d do for that? Office work is my day job, so while I have space in the house for it, it's a luxury to add one in the garden, yes. That said, outfitting that office would be a business expense, so it comes out (somewhat) cheaper than retail. wooger posted:Have you ever explored renting or having shared use of a workshop somewhere locally? I have, industrial units are about £10k/year locally. There's one hackspace type thing which is part of a university about half an hour away, but I don't know how good it is. wooger posted:I think in general the only garden building of that size that’d have enough value at resale would be if it was fully self contained as a granny flat with garden, or even a whole separate tiny-house type thing if it had separate access. Yeah I agree, though I'm not super worried about resale, I could probably sell it on the guest house angle with appropriate disclaimers. drgitlin posted:He lives on Plague Island, so the rain would prevent working outside for most of the year. And neighbours the rest of the year, yeah. Nice idea though.
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Dec 23, 2020 04:51
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Jaded Burnout posted:It would have to be able to crane it about 50m from a tight residential street, over the house, which feels like a tough ask. Using my extensive experience of *checks notes* hiring 3 cranes at work in the last 10 years, I'd say that's out of the question. You can buy flat pack frefabs that can be carried through a standard doorway but they're smaller than you want and not pretty. Personally I'd say finish the house then see whether you want to carry on with building projects but I understand the landscaping restrictions too.
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Dec 23, 2020 08:24
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cakesmith handyman posted:Using my extensive experience of *checks notes* hiring 3 cranes at work in the last 10 years, I'd say that's out of the question. It would ironically be slightly closer to crane it in from a train. cakesmith handyman posted:Personally I'd say finish the house then see whether you want to carry on with building projects but I understand the landscaping restrictions too. Something that's interesting about workshops, I've found, is that a lot of the projects you do there wind up being low-risk practice runs for nicer things you want to do in your living space.
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Dec 23, 2020 08:40
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In hindsight you should have built the workshop before you started the house  Actually you could have built it as a place to live in too while your demo was happening.
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Dec 23, 2020 08:43
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cakesmith handyman posted:In hindsight you should have built the workshop before you started the house There was a time when I seriously considered doing the whole thing myself. No way I could've afforded both at that time anyway, as it was I went into quite a bit of debt to get it done, which I'll still be paying off for another year or so. I'm not planning on doing that again, which is one of the reasons some thing are going a bit slower.
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Dec 23, 2020 09:06
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Working through Approved Document M and it just took a giant poo poo on my plans. All new buildings above 50sqm (i.e. which are subject to building regulations in general) must be fully wheelchair accessible and (more importantly) contain a fully compliant wheelchair-accessible toilet. Apart from having a bunch of expensive requirements (like pull alarms and two sinks and a dozen grip bars) it also has to be a minimum of 2200x2000 which means I'm going to have to rejig everything. I have a rough plan, going to have to think it through further.
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Dec 23, 2020 16:10
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You might be able to have an extra large bathroom as big as bathroom+server room that is all ready for an extra wall after the final inspection. If you think it might have a future as a grandma cottage, having a larger bathroom (and running any rough plumbing that has to go through the slab) to make that conversion easy would be a good selling point down the line.
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Dec 23, 2020 16:17
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49.99sqm it is then.
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Dec 23, 2020 16:22
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Jaded Burnout posted:Working through Approved Document M and it just took a giant poo poo on my plans. What in... *why*? I can see that for "business" structures, but for a private outbuilding?
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Dec 23, 2020 19:11
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Darchangel posted:What in... *why*? I can see that for "business" structures, but for a private outbuilding? It seems a little out there to me, but they have been doing that sort of thing for new housing lately. As far as I can tell from ADM there's no exceptions, but I'll have a look at the legislation.
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Dec 23, 2020 19:18
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Yeah so if we look at the legislation, it defines 7 classes of exemption: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2010/2214/schedule/2/made None of these apply to me. In fact the requirements for a "small building" exemption are even worse than I thought; under 30sqm. The relevant part of the regs is really short.  "Reasonable provisions", that's it. But outside the general exemptions, there's no exemptions specified in AD M2 (buildings other than dwellings), so it's gonna apply. I'll talk to the local authority, because it's ultimately their call on whether it's reasonable or not. I found some interesting commentary here: https://www.jrf.org.uk/report/impact-part-m-design-new-housing
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Dec 23, 2020 20:12
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Do these regulations apply because it's a habitable structure? And if so what makes it habitable? Heating, insulation, plumbing? Some or all of those? Seems weird to me that you could presumably renovate your actual house without building a fully compliant bathroom, you know in the part where people would actually live, but then a new build garden shed has to have that stuff. Like I don't think you're reading anything wrong but wow it's just so bizarre to me. Interested to see what you end up finding out from the local council.
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Dec 24, 2020 01:27
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Yeah it seems totally nuts to me that every detached 2 car garage in the UK has to have a handicap accessible bathroom. Maybe this is why detached 2 car garages don't exist in the UK? I have to imagine there's some exception for non-inhabited, non-commercial spaces  Looking at your link, it looks like agricultural buildings are exempt so, I dunno, get a chicken and a bunch of grow lights and a few tomato plants and call it a greenhouse until it gets inspected??
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Dec 24, 2020 04:23
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I guess colin furze got some kind of exception to put a bomb shelter beneath his shed in the UK. It's only accessible by ladder. Have you thought about getting 10 million subscribers, JB?
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Dec 24, 2020 04:25
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Rexxed posted:I guess colin furze got some kind of exception to put a bomb shelter beneath his shed in the UK. It's only accessible by ladder. Have you thought about getting 10 million subscribers, JB? E: JB have you priced burying this thing???!?!?! E2: Nm, still limited to 30 sq. meters. How about 2 30 sq meter buildings connected by a tempermanent breezeway? Kaiser Schnitzel fucked around with this message at 04:31 on Dec 24, 2020 |
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Dec 24, 2020 04:27
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:Yeah it seems totally nuts to me that every detached 2 car garage in the UK has to have a handicap accessible bathroom. You think 2 car garages are 50 square metres? Not here - That’s bigger than a 2 bedroom flat over here. My parents have a 2 car detached garage, but you’ll only get them for custom builds nowadays as houses are built so densely.
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Dec 24, 2020 10:31
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It sounds like the worst of both worlds to me. The expense and problems of owning a house, but you still got neighbors shoved in real close and no real privacy in yor own yard (if there's even one in certain circumstances) and you probably can't make too much noise at certain times of day.
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Dec 24, 2020 11:45
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Rexxed posted:I guess colin furze got some kind of exception to put a bomb shelter beneath his shed in the UK. It's only accessible by ladder. Have you thought about getting 10 million subscribers, JB? Is it < 30sqm? Also the legislation says "building" but defines "building" circularly (same as it does for dwelling). It does say "erection or modification" so maybe digging doesn't count? tangy yet delightful posted:Do these regulations apply because it's a habitable structure? And if so what makes it habitable? Heating, insulation, plumbing? Some or all of those? No they apply more stringently because it *isn't* a habitable structure. Actual houses can be built to be adaptable, i.e. enough space for all this but not necessarily actually fitted. tangy yet delightful posted:Seems weird to me that you could presumably renovate your actual house without building a fully compliant bathroom, you know in the part where people would actually live, but then a new build garden shed has to have that stuff. Like I don't think you're reading anything wrong but wow it's just so bizarre to me. One thing that generally holds true is that there are much more lax restrictions on modifications to existing houses than there are for new houses, because it's often harder and/or more costly to retrofit these, and I'm assuming because most new builds are by giant corporations. It would have to be a very large garden shed, and even then I think you could argue it's for agriculture and/or "a detached building into which people do not normally go" if you're only using it for storage, but I don't know if there's any legal precendents. tangy yet delightful posted:Interested to see what you end up finding out from the local council. Me too. I like that I can also shop around for an inspector that will approve it based on their interpretation of the rules. Planning permission is council-only, but the council competes free-market style for building control approvals with private sector authorised approvers. wooger posted:You think 2 car garages are 50 square metres? Not here - That’s bigger than a 2 bedroom flat over here. 30sqm, I was wrong originally. wooger posted:My parents have a 2 car detached garage, but you’ll only get them for custom builds nowadays as houses are built so densely. Same, but in a relatively new build, nothing accessible in there. I suspect building control will give a pass on this.
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Dec 24, 2020 12:26
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Do you have 7 years worth of hay bails?
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Dec 24, 2020 13:10
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We cant speak for you but if having a room full of awesome tools and space to use them is something that makes you happy and you are planning on staying there for a few years then you should 100% build a proper workshop  I think you should speak to a professional before getting too worried about all the building reg requirements. Enough people do this that it cant be impossible! eg - if you took out the wall between your server room and toilet then it is big enough for a disabled toilet? you can build that wall back in after sign off (and remove it if you move out in 10 years). Disabled access requirements - maybe you just need to add a nice path into your garden landscaping requirements. Not a terrible thing as it will help you!
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Dec 24, 2020 20:41
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Tomarse posted:Disabled access requirements - maybe you just need to add a nice path into your garden landscaping requirements. Not a terrible thing as it will help you! There already is one. Fortunately "need access to wheel in machinery" has similar requirements to "need access to wheel in yourself".
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Dec 24, 2020 20:57
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Jaded Burnout posted:There already is one. Fortunately "need access to wheel in machinery" has similar requirements to "need access to wheel in yourself". Yeah I think pretty much every single disabled access requirement is good news for workshop access too.. the wider disabled access doors are awesome for getting equipment and larger items both in and out. If you build this and comply with the building regs you also will leave yourself in the position that when you sell it in 10 years your workshop also goes on the listing as workshop/detached granny annexe which is gonna add more value to your property and make it more universally attractive to buyers.
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Dec 24, 2020 21:40
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*subject to modifications in line with change of use under building regulations
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Dec 24, 2020 22:25
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What happens if you ditch the toilet completely? They can't force you to run sewerage to the building surely?
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Dec 24, 2020 22:47
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CancerCakes posted:What happens if you ditch the toilet completely? They can't force you to run sewerage to the building surely? Yes, they can. If the building has to conform to AD M2 then it needs a wheelchair accessible toilet on the main floor.
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Dec 24, 2020 23:36
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Jaded Burnout posted:Yes, they can. If the building has to conform to AD M2 then it needs a wheelchair accessible toilet on the main floor. Could you make the toilet part of one of the larger rooms and then put up some freestanding privacy blockers as furniture afterwards or is that too much engineering around the issue? Having a sink in the workshop area would probably be good now and then.
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Dec 24, 2020 23:43
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Rexxed posted:Could you make the toilet part of one of the larger rooms and then put up some freestanding privacy blockers as furniture afterwards or is that too much engineering around the issue? Having a sink in the workshop area would probably be good now and then. It might be too much solutionising, yeah. I'll probably put a sink in the workshop proper, or put one in the bathroom that's comfortable for blade sharpening.
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Dec 24, 2020 23:50
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Idk the exemption where there is reasonable access to the "rest of the building" sounds like it covers it, regardless of whether the building has access or not. I cannot imagine that all the "home offices" people have had plonked in their gardens contain wheelchair accessible facilities and are presumably grandfathered in on the grounds of the main building not being compliant in the first place because are you really going to buy a house where you can only physically get into the out building? Edit: I think in my one experience with building control I found them very reasonable. I might be imagining it but I might have even have had a conversation about wheelchair access that got written off immediately because a) it was a loft extension and b) the ground floor access was up a narrow set of stairs so there was no possibly way you could ever get a wheelchair into the place anyway Powerful Two-Hander fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Dec 25, 2020 |
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Dec 25, 2020 01:38
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Powerful Two-Hander posted:Idk the exemption where there is reasonable access to the "rest of the building" sounds like it covers it, regardless of whether the building has access or not. Extensions are dealt with differently to new buildings, which is why this didn't come up when I had my extensions done. Most home offices will be under 30sqm. The main issue is that all these rules aren't written for this use case, but because of the way the exemptions are written I'm getting caught in it anyway, purely based on the assumption that any building over 30sqm warrants this treatment. I'm not entirely blind to their reasoning. You want as much of the structures in the country as possible to be compatible with people with less mobility, new buildings are the most reasonable ones to target hardest, you need to force commercial builders to do this because otherwise they don't give a poo poo, and you need to put in some reasonable exceptions for people building at home. I agree that I think this'll get a pass from building control, but nonetheless that's (IMO) based on their discretion rather than the wording of the regulations.
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Dec 25, 2020 08:41
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Yeah I think I might just not do the outbuilding. Save a shitload of money and work. Maybe compromise with a 30sqm workshop, no office, no planning permission, no building control.
Jaded Burnout fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Dec 27, 2020 |
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Dec 27, 2020 03:08
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Jaded Burnout posted:Yeah I think I might just not do the outbuilding. Save a shitload of money and work. Maybe compromise with a 30sqm workshop, no office, no planning permission, no building control. I think the right choice. You have a lot of space in the house tbh
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Dec 27, 2020 12:38
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Jaded Burnout posted:Yeah I think I might just not do the outbuilding. Save a shitload of money and work. Maybe compromise with a 30sqm workshop, no office, no planning permission, no building control. Sounds very sensible! Can you build a lean to/carport to one side on top of the 30sqm? Would be super useful for storage and as outdoor covered workspace to make the internal workshop space go further.
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Dec 27, 2020 12:55
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Tomarse posted:Sounds very sensible! Ah well there we get into exciting planning grey area, as it could be argued that "any part of the structure" was then within 2m of a boundary. But yes I'm gonna do something like that regardless. Hooks for hanging ladders out of sight, etc. Probably just a fixed awning or similar.
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Dec 27, 2020 13:01
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Probably easy enough to rip the awning and ladder hooks off if someone ends up whining about it to the council, but I sorta doubt it'll happen.
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Dec 27, 2020 21:37
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tangy yet delightful posted:Probably easy enough to rip the awning and ladder hooks off if someone ends up whining about it to the council, but I sorta doubt it'll happen. Yeah they'd have to actually know the rules in order to even consider it, and I get on well with all my neighbours. Not to say they're dumb, but unless you specifically go looking there's no good reason to know the height/boundary limits on permitted developments.
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Dec 27, 2020 21:45
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