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Genocyber posted:There's nothing that suggests she was a "normal" human. The descriptions of her soul items refute this. And if she defeats you, why does she just wait around for you to come back Edit: Also it's interesting that darkness seems to curse you in this one, where previously it was darkness (humanity) that made you less hollow. I realize I'm being kind of flippant because this game's vagueness frustrates me, but I honestly think there are some wrinkles we haven't considered yet.
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May 27, 2014 20:21
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| # ? Jun 1, 2024 01:46 |
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Soon a challenge run player will run himself down to 10% health bar and find that there is an alternative ending if you beat the game as cursed as possible. ...actually, that would be pretty cool.
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May 27, 2014 20:22
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quote:Apparnetly the guide says she flat out IS Manus but I don't think that means what people think. Soul of Nashandra posted:Soul of Nashandra, Queen of Drangleic. Chime of Want posted:"Sacred chime created from the soul of Nashandra. Greatly amplifies spells. Scythe of Want posted:"A scythe born from the soul of Nashandra. Bow of Want posted:"A bow created from the soul of Nashandra Soul of Manus posted:Soul of Manus, Father of the Abyss. So basically Nashandra is a reincarnation of Manus in the shape of a human, longing for the rest of itself. Rereading this, that longing to coalesce and reunite sounds an awful lot like the dark sorceries in Dark Souls 1, which were weightier than other spells due to the humanity of the sorcerer, and longed to join. Humanity itself also seemed to be the same way. And souls can break apart, like Gwyn did with his lord soul. I think it might be that she's actually just a piece of the humanity that Manus had, if not a piece of whatever Manus' body became after his humanity ran wild (though I'm not sure it's much of a distinction). It's also interesting to note that Nashandra's human form looks very similar to Princess Dusk. RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 20:27 on May 27, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 20:25
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To whomever got a blue summon named Jesus sent into their world to protect them from an invader I would like to sincerely apologize for accidentally blocking you into a room with your invader while you were trying to get out. I was practically pissing myself for actually getting summoned for once and wasn't paying attention. Sorry about you getting stabbed in the back repeatedly!
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May 27, 2014 20:27
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Genocyber posted:There's nothing that suggests she was a "normal" human. The descriptions of her soul items refute this. This is only the case if you interpret that description as saying the fragment of the soul formed into a human on its own. The way I read it is its saying the fragment of Manus' Soul sought to become its former self, and thus joined with other souls. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think there is any precedence for souls themselves taking on a form without some kind of host. The fragment of Manus's soul used Nashandra as a host, transforming her into her current state. I think this because this what happened with the 4 Old Ones souls. It also explains why Nashandra doesn't look exactly like Manus. She takes on a different appearance as a result of Manus' Soul mixing with hers.
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May 27, 2014 20:27
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quote:The fragment of Manus's soul used Nashandra as a host, transforming her into her current state. Her soul description says Nashandra herself was born of the Dark (humanity) and longed for strength. Manus's soul was nothing but humanity. Remember, humanity is the Dark Soul broken apart. RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 20:34 on May 27, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 20:28
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Internet Kraken posted:Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think there is any precedence for souls themselves taking on a form without some kind of host. In Dark Souls 1, losing a lot of humanity could lead to them running off to some one else's world as a vagrant.
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May 27, 2014 20:30
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Internet Kraken posted:Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think there is any precedence for souls themselves taking on a form without some kind of host. It sounds like someone has forgotten New Londo. You lucky bastard.
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May 27, 2014 20:31
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Space Hamlet posted:Not exactly - "the king never took the true throne," which is a special magic throne that lets you do something. As far as I can tell, the Throne of Want is just a ceremonialized renovation of/on top of the Kiln. The ending is basically Linking the Flame and the Age of Dark mashed into one. They don't bother to let you explicitly decide which option you're taking and it's just left open ended. Feels like they were pressed for time and there was meant to be a King/Queen dichotomy. Take up the King's failed duty and link the flame, or side with the Queen Nashandra and usher in the Age of Dark
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May 27, 2014 20:32
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Captain Oblivious posted:As far as I can tell, the Throne of Want is just a ceremonialized renovation of/on top of the Kiln. Yeah, I do understand that, but thanks. More than that, the visual of being sealed in what's essentially a sensory deprivation chamber seems to be a pretty clear message that "it's up to you to decide what any of this means" - which strikes me as a little weak but hey whatever
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May 27, 2014 20:34
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Captain Oblivious posted:As far as I can tell, the Throne of Want is just a ceremonialized renovation of/on top of the Kiln. Probably, since the throne is literally a kiln. Seriously, do an image search of the word kiln if you've never seen one before.
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May 27, 2014 20:34
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Captain Oblivious posted:As far as I can tell, the Throne of Want is just a ceremonialized renovation of/on top of the Kiln. "You will stand before its decrepit gate, without really knowing why." I don't think it's a result of being rushed, I don't think there were ever supposed to be different paths. The only thing that matters is your obsession with getting to it. Every other hollow is utterly obsessed with something without understanding why, the player might as well be as well. Except Vengarl, who is simply too cool for desire.
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May 27, 2014 20:35
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 Every time. It's like a magnet.
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May 27, 2014 20:41
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Red Mundus posted:To whomever got a blue summon named Jesus sent into their world to protect them from an invader I would like to sincerely apologize for accidentally blocking you into a room with your invader while you were trying to get out. I was practically pissing myself for actually getting summoned for once and wasn't paying attention.
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May 27, 2014 20:42
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Dark Souls II is basically Buddhism: The Game. Look at the description of Agadyne's set, which makes it very obvious.
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May 27, 2014 20:43
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So the ending is that you finally accomplish your goal of clearing the land of all its powerful souls for yourself and taking the throne, but you go hollow right at the end and forget what it was all about and just sit in the throne room for the rest of time? So it's only 99.999% grimdark in that while you do eventually succumb to the curse and go hollow, at least you posess the object(s) of your obsession and don't have to spend eternity in torturous desire with no hope of attainment. ^^^ Yeah, I caught some hints of that too. Buddhism is basically about finding the knowledge and understanding required to end the pain of human desire, right? So then, to go hollow is to be consumed by your desire until that's all that's left, leaving you in eternal torment? If that's the case, what would be the equivalent of achieving nirvana, then? Or is the Dark Souls universe too grimdark to allow that possibility? GreatGreen fucked around with this message at 20:53 on May 27, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 20:47
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GreatGreen posted:So the ending is that you finally accomplish your goal of clearing the land of all its powerful souls for yourself and taking the throne, but you go hollow right at the end and forget what it was all about and just sit in the throne room for the rest of time? The ending is the same as the first game's ending. You relight the flame or extinguish it, bring on either a new age of fire or an age of darkness. The reason you don't get to the actual choice is because it doesn't matter what you choose, light or darkness is irrelevant since it's all part of a cycle. Near the end of the age the curse of the undead will reappear and a new chosen undead will rise to do it all over again.
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May 27, 2014 20:52
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TGLT posted:
You must be thinking of someone else. I'm obsessed with the Bell/Sun.
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May 27, 2014 20:54
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turtlecrunch posted:
I nearly joined that covenant because I thought it was Heirs of the Sun at first. Then I read the big message saying "THIS WILL SET YOU ON AN ARDUOUS ROAD" and realized I was making a terrible mistake. Not sure how so many people look at that and go on anyways.
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May 27, 2014 20:54
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So i just started this, and I can't really even make it through the forest in the beginning, I die after climbing up the ladder into the second zone. And I die repeatedly. I'm terrible at videogames generally, but am I doing something wrong? Or is this game just stupid hard?
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May 27, 2014 20:55
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Azzents posted:The ending is the same as the first game's ending. You relight the flame or extinguish it, bring on either a new age of fire or an age of darkness. The reason you don't get to the actual choice is because it doesn't matter what you choose, light or darkness is irrelevant since it's all part of a cycle. Near the end of the age the curse of the undead will reappear and a new chosen undead will rise to do it all over again. Ok, I understand the cycle of the flame kindling and extinguishing and new chosen undead doing it all over again, but how can there be a cycle if someone chooses Dark? Isn't that basically the inevitable, permanent heat death of the Souls universe? Or would there be a big bang and some point in the future, causing the flame to spontaneously light itself again?
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May 27, 2014 20:56
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GreatGreen posted:So the ending is that you finally accomplish your goal of clearing the land of all its powerful souls for yourself and taking the throne, but you go hollow right at the end and forget what it was all about and just sit in the throne room for the rest of time? The ending is that you have the choice of either relinking the Fire (as mentioned before, the Throne of Want is literally a kiln) to bring about another Age or to eschew from that and do nothing. You've seen the evils of the so-called enlightened Age of Fire, but you've also seen the primal destructiveness of the Dark. Vendrick realized what Nashandra was and likely broke the Lordvessel (the item he likely stole from the Giants thus inciting their rage) and split the Lord Souls to hide them away from her. Vendrick fought against fate, enlisted the help of his brother Aldia to find a way around the Undead Curse and ultimately failed. He never sat the true Throne either out of fear or failure, but you've succeeded. You are the true Monarch. In the end, the Monarch sees what it wants to see and so whatever interpretation you have is entirely up to you.
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May 27, 2014 20:57
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lonelylikezoidberg posted:So i just started this, and I can't really even make it through the forest in the beginning, I die after climbing up the ladder into the second zone. And I die repeatedly. I'm terrible at videogames generally, but am I doing something wrong? Or is this game just stupid hard? Prepare to die. You can aggro the hollows at the top of the ladder then head back down it. The bad guys will follow you in a single file for you to mow down.
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May 27, 2014 20:57
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GreatGreen posted:Ok, I understand the cycle of the flame kindling and extinguishing and new chosen undead doing it all over again, but how can there be a cycle if someone chooses Dark? Isn't that basically the inevitable, permanent heat death of the Souls universe? Or would there be a big bang and some point and the flame would light itself again? Isn't that just how Dark Souls 1 starts anyway? It's complete darkness until Gwyn and the others find lord souls and start the Age of Fire. I don't see why it can't reset and happen again.
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May 27, 2014 20:58
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lonelylikezoidberg posted:So i just started this, and I can't really even make it through the forest in the beginning, I die after climbing up the ladder into the second zone. And I die repeatedly. I'm terrible at videogames generally, but am I doing something wrong? Or is this game just stupid hard? You don't have the little symbol that the guy does in my screenshot above right?  Aside from that: don't get greedy in a horde. Get up the ladder and start running, not fighting. You can also abuse geography in a few ways.
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May 27, 2014 20:58
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lonelylikezoidberg posted:So i just started this, and I can't really even make it through the forest in the beginning, I die after climbing up the ladder into the second zone. And I die repeatedly. I'm terrible at videogames generally, but am I doing something wrong? Or is this game just stupid hard? I played Dark Souls 1 and beat it without ever leveling up. I still died in that forest an appalling number of times. Its a hard game, don't feel bad. You'll get better if you stick with it and try to learn from your mistakes.
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May 27, 2014 20:59
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GreatGreen posted:Ok, I understand the cycle of the flame kindling and extinguishing and new chosen undead doing it all over again, but how can there be a cycle if someone chooses Dark? Isn't that basically the inevitable, permanent heat death of the Souls universe? Or would there be a big bang and some point and the flame would light itself again? Even if you let the fire die and the world enters an age of dark, a flame will inevitably spring up again from the ashes of the old world. This idea of "a new flame will always rise from the ashes" is a pretty common theme throughout the game and a lot of NPCs will say something to that effect; Straid, for example, straight-up tells you as much.
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May 27, 2014 20:59
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Manatee Cannon posted:Isn't that just how Dark Souls 1 starts anyway? It's complete darkness until Gwyn and the others find lord souls and start the Age of Fire. I don't see why it can't reset and happen again. Before the First Flame there was neither Light or Dark, merely existence. That sounds impossible, I know, but just roll with it.
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May 27, 2014 21:00
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Yup, prior to the flame it was the Age of Ancients, in which there was just stone and gray fog. With the spontaneous kindling of the first flame light and dark and everything else was born.
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May 27, 2014 21:03
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GreatGreen posted:Ok, I understand the cycle of the flame kindling and extinguishing and new chosen undead doing it all over again, but how can there be a cycle if someone chooses Dark? Isn't that basically the inevitable, permanent heat death of the Souls universe? Or would there be a big bang and some point in the future, causing the flame to spontaneously light itself again? The Dull Ember description gives some insight into this. If a fire dies out there will still be a few embers just waiting for a breeze to rekindle them, in a similar way that a fire, no matter how big, will eventually die out.
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May 27, 2014 21:03
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Genocyber posted:Yup, prior to the flame it was the Age of Ancients, in which there was just stone and gray fog. With the spontaneous kindling of the first flame light and dark and everything else was born. Ah, alright. That makes sense I guess.
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May 27, 2014 21:04
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quote:In the Age of Ancients the world was unformed, shrouded by fog. A land of grey crags, arching trees and everlasting dragons. Then there was Fire and with Fire came Disparity. Heat and cold, life and death, and of course... Light and Dark. I figured Vendrick was a chosen undead who chose Dark, causing Nashandra to appear. I'm not sure if that makes sense though, since he "never took the true throne".
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May 27, 2014 21:06
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Tetracube posted:I figured Vendrick was a chosen undead who chose Dark, causing Nashandra to appear. I'm not sure if that makes sense though, since he "never took the true throne". It seems to me that after vanquishing "the four great ones," some prior incarnation of the great souls, he neither linked the flame nor shunned the light - he used the souls to build a sweet kingdom. This accounts for the signs of multiple cycles in the game's environments - both Vendrick's kingdom and the Iron King's - and also nicely explains some of the visual motifs, like petrification and headless snakes. The player's mission, then, is to reignite the cycle. Or possibly end it - the voiceover in the ending does seem to imply that that's an option. The game has a big theme of problematic relationships with the past. Time is the real curse, and Vendrick tried to hold onto his time for longer than he really could. Space Hamlet fucked around with this message at 21:14 on May 27, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 21:11
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I know it's passe to complain about PVP but goddamn I'm having a hard time leveling up as a Blue Cop. The Arena is filled with Haveldads and I keep running into VAC-banned hacker rear end in a top hat.
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May 27, 2014 21:14
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What's the difference between that and shunning the light, though? From what I understood, the choice was either rekindle the first flame or don't.
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May 27, 2014 21:15
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The Age of Dark is not a part of the cycle. The Age of Dark is the end of the cycle that has been perpetuated all this time. We've still never seen how bad (or good) things can get once the First Flame dies entirely. It's come close but never been fully extinguished.
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May 27, 2014 21:16
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Tetracube posted:What's the difference between that and shunning the light, though? From what I understood, the choice was either rekindle the first flame or don't. It's not exactly clear how Vendrick did it, but I don't think it's that important. Suffice it to say, he did it using his awesome soul science.
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May 27, 2014 21:17
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lonelylikezoidberg posted:So i just started this, and I can't really even make it through the forest in the beginning, I die after climbing up the ladder into the second zone. And I die repeatedly. I'm terrible at videogames generally, but am I doing something wrong? Or is this game just stupid hard? I've done around 5 playthroughs and that forest is a loving meat grinder. It's a combination of low-level/power and dodgy enemy attacks that you don't really see elsewhere in the game. It'll get better and once you move past it you'll really see a difference in your skill and survivability. Only advice I can give is buy some throwing daggers when you get access to them and use them to finish off weak enemies and whittle down groups of enemies.
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May 27, 2014 21:19
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Captain Oblivious posted:The Age of Dark is not a part of the cycle. The Age of Dark is the end of the cycle that has been perpetuated all this time. We've still never seen how bad (or good) things can get once the First Flame dies entirely. It's come close but never been fully extinguished. The Age of Dark is just as unnatural as the Age of Fire though. There's no reason to assume that the Age of Dark would have any permanence to it.
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May 27, 2014 21:20
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| # ? Jun 1, 2024 01:46 |
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There wasn't any darkness before the first flame caused the disparity between light and dark. Since then, every age has been an age of fire, people rooting for dark just want to have a turn for once. Dark souls 3: The furtive pygmy's revenge
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May 27, 2014 21:24
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