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Johnny Joestar posted:i have to say though, divorced from everything else it's funny to see people complaining that dota, a team game, is now emphasizing playing as a team more than some individual person dragging everyone else along behind them
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Dec 12, 2016 13:02
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The changes look interesting to me and i hope they affect the pro game in a positive way because the prospect of having to learn so many new variables to play effectively is to much for this tired old man.
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Dec 12, 2016 13:07
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JollyPubJerk posted:visage spam gonna be a thing only held back by micro woo that hero is dumb. grats aui
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Dec 12, 2016 13:07
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BabyRyoga posted:
Maybe I'm looking at it wrong from a pure theorycrafting perspective since I don't have the test client installed, but I think +4 flak attacks are obnoxious for supports who cannot approach a fight for x attacks or get blown up. And I don't know if missiles works as I think they do but if you have charges on them and can unleash up to 4 in a team fight that pretty much means people will get stunned because you can't get rid of all of them. Nichael posted:I basically only play Visage in solo queue (went from 3.5k to 5k with him in a few months), and I'm kind of unsure how removing Familiar spell immunity is going to play out. That seems pretty significant. If you're close with your hero it doesn't matter for damage spells as they get gravekeepers reduction. Guess they can be stunned or astraled with might suck though.
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Dec 12, 2016 13:38
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CVE posted:If you're close with your hero it doesn't matter for damage spells as they get gravekeepers reduction. Guess they can be stunned or astraled with might suck though.
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Dec 12, 2016 13:43
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CVE posted:Maybe I'm looking at it wrong from a pure theorycrafting perspective since I don't have the test client installed, but I think +4 flak attacks are obnoxious for supports who cannot approach a fight for x attacks or get blown up. And I don't know if missiles works as I think they do but if you have charges on them and can unleash up to 4 in a team fight that pretty much means people will get stunned because you can't get rid of all of them. +4 Flak isn't necessarily doing anything in a fight though, unless it extends past a certain time frame. Many other heroes have insane DPS increases or abilities with much closer to 100% uptime than a Gyro that can Flak a few more times. A more power-level appropriate ability would be something like "While Flak Cannon is active, each of your attacks will strike a random target 1 additional time", or +150 attack range or something.
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Dec 12, 2016 13:49
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I know techies were always awful, but what are you supposed to do with them now? The new mines mean you can setup traps and instal-gib people, also the reworked suicide will likely cause you to take more damage than your opponents. Why aren't the new mines still invisible? I guess you can put them on high ground and then hope people walk slowly up to them.
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Dec 12, 2016 15:31
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So there's some kind of Chinese tournament like, this weekend right? SOUNDS GOOD.
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Dec 12, 2016 15:34
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Does anyone know when is the patch on the main client today? Noon like the notes were or later?
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Dec 12, 2016 15:35
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TheRat posted:It's not really that funny when you consider how boring 5-man fuckfests are. I miss the days of Dendi winning mid because he outplayed his opponent, not because Cr1t stod in front of him with ogre loving magi. Hot take comin' thru: you miss Dendi winning mid because he was the best player playing the position then and isn't anymore.
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Dec 12, 2016 15:39
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Jerk McJerkface posted:I know techies were always awful, but what are you supposed to do with them now? The new mines mean you can setup traps and instal-gib people, also the reworked suicide will likely cause you to take more damage than your opponents. I think Techies could be a decent ganking support now if you have a setup. Since Stasis no longer has an activation delay as long as you have about 1.5 to 2 sec of setup you can pretty much always get it off to root for 2/3/4/5 seconds which should be plenty to murder your target. and since they cannot move at higher levels you get a proximity and remote mine off for 750 + remote damage. Again purely theorycrafting here. Also your suicide (if you are under 50%) is now on a 35 second cd although it might be harder to pull off but should be easier to deny yourself on a more regular basis. CVE fucked around with this message at 15:41 on Dec 12, 2016 |
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Dec 12, 2016 15:39
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One last game of DOTA 2 before DOTA 3 releases later today. Goodbye my old friend
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Dec 12, 2016 15:41
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I think I'm going to try to make a Jackie Mao Invoker bot that randomly tries to solo Rosh and constantly buys back
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Dec 12, 2016 15:43
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CVE posted:I think Techies could be a decent ganking support now if you have a setup. Since Stasis no longer has an activation delay as long as you have about 1.5 to 2 sec of setup you can pretty much always get it off to root for 2/3/4/5 seconds which should be plenty to murder your target. and since they cannot move at higher levels you get a proximity and remote mine off for 750 + remote damage. Again purely theorycrafting here. Also your suicide (if you are under 50%) is now on a 35 second cd although it might be harder to pull off but should be easier to deny yourself on a more regular basis. From the patch notes: Proximity Mines detonate whenever an enemy is standing in the AoE for 1.6 seconds (if you walk in and out instantly, it doesn't explode). Proximity Mines require 1.75 seconds to be active and invisible. Does this mean they take 1.6+1.75=3.35 seconds to explode, or are the two times concurrent and they explode at 1.75 from placement? Also the Blast Off has a really decent silence, so Techies could be a decent imitator.
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Dec 12, 2016 15:50
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Black Baby Goku posted:One last game of DOTA 2 before DOTA 3 releases later today. Goodbye my old friend
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Dec 12, 2016 15:53
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Saint Freak posted:So there's some kind of Chinese tournament like, this weekend right? WCA. Gonna be an amazing shitshow
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Dec 12, 2016 15:57
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Man the test server is hard. Every fight is like a boss fight. I rarely get any kills at all, just curbstomped repeatedly.. 
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Dec 12, 2016 16:03
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Jerk McJerkface posted:From the patch notes: Also enemies take full damage even at the very edge of the detonation range which is nice. It's an attempt to make them more team-fight oriented I guess? The mines still do tower damage too, so he can push better without having to get under the tower. IDK still seems like a bad hero but even less fun to play now... I guess we'll see.
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Dec 12, 2016 16:08
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baby delivery truck posted:Also enemies take full damage even at the very edge of the detonation range which is nice. It's an attempt to make them more team-fight oriented I guess? The mines still do tower damage too, so he can push better without having to get under the tower. IDK still seems like a bad hero but even less fun to play now... I guess we'll see. Is the delay before exploding 3 seconds, or 1.75? Also in the new HUD where are your stats?
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Dec 12, 2016 16:17
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hold alt to see your stats, it's very bad
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Dec 12, 2016 16:36
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I hope the suggested picks thing will be like Overwatch and prevent the 3 HC and a Jungler thing that has completely overrun the mmr dregs since I've started playing again. But probably not because I actually think a good portion of pubs only know how to play like 5-10 heroes. In 7.00 if you have an Sniper Luna PA team the game should just close your client if you try to pick Jungle LC.
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Dec 12, 2016 16:43
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GOOD TIMES ON METH posted:I hope the suggested picks thing will be like Overwatch and prevent the 3 HC and a Jungler thing that has completely overrun the mmr dregs since I've started playing again. But probably not because I actually think a good portion of pubs only know how to play like 5-10 heroes. the jungle changes mean jungle LC is dead, right? please god say yes
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Dec 12, 2016 16:47
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GOOD TIMES ON METH posted:I hope the suggested picks thing will be like Overwatch and prevent the 3 HC and a Jungler thing that has completely overrun the mmr dregs since I've started playing again. But probably not because I actually think a good portion of pubs only know how to play like 5-10 heroes. I don't think that is ever going to go away. In fact, has it ever not been this way? People know teams need supports, they just don't care. They will pick their PA and complain that other people did not pick supports to complement their pick.
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Dec 12, 2016 16:51
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Martian Manfucker posted:the jungle changes mean jungle LC is dead, right? please god say yes Now they can just jungle with a bottle and keep grabbing bounty runes.
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Dec 12, 2016 16:54
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Cape Cod Crab Chip posted:I don't think that is ever going to go away. In fact, has it ever not been this way? People know teams need supports, they just don't care. They will pick their PA and complain that other people did not pick supports to complement their pick. Which is extra weird, because DOTA supports are way more varied and terrifying than other mobas, yet DOTA is the one where there's a problem of "everyone wants to pick the hero who will be useless for tens of minutes over the guy who instagibs people from level 4 onward" As for seeing less HC's in dota 7.00: by all reports the earlygame is basically dummyproof now, so HC's are going to end up being better.
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Dec 12, 2016 16:57
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Black Baby Goku posted:One last game of DOTA 2 before DOTA 3 releases later today. Goodbye my old friend I hope it was brood
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Dec 12, 2016 17:06
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Looke posted:I hope it was brood
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Dec 12, 2016 17:08
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i really am not sure why say, league of ledgers where melee/ranged carries can be useful at level 1 doesn't have this problem (at least as badly), but the game with such passive and unsatisfying supports as Lion or Lich has people scrambling to be The Dogshit Useless Purple Man for 30 mins this is 100% on weird playerbases not the game, donnut take this the wrong way
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Dec 12, 2016 17:10
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Neurolimal posted:Which is extra weird, because DOTA supports are way more varied and terrifying than other mobas, yet DOTA is the one where there's a problem of "everyone wants to pick the hero who will be useless for tens of minutes over the guy who instagibs people from level 4 onward" Is this really surprising to you? I haven't played much LoL but during what little time I spent playing it as part of my "Dota methadone" phase, I saw a whole hell of a lot of Lucians and Jinxes and whoever else fits the ADC mold. Doesn't that game have role-based queues and Support is pretty much instant games but ADC means you wait? I honestly don't know but I think I recall hearing that. I do know that WoW, a game I quit before matchmaking queues were introduced, had a similar problem where DPS would be queued for upwards of thirty minutes while tanks would find groups instantly. I led a guild for about six months (putting myself on blast here) during Burning Crusade and one of my more consistent rear end pains was managing all the Shamans who wanted to be Enhancement. Most people want to play the killers, not the people who enable them, in every game that exists, even if the enablers are more important by orders of magnitude. I mean poo poo, remember the Shanghai Major? That had player-based MVP voting and every single loving game MVP went to either the carry, the mid or the offlane. It never once went to a support. Even when the picking was on the basis of who was most important for victory in a game they watched, NOT played, people picked cores. Here, I'll put myself on blast again: safe lane carry is my preferred role to play if I get to choose. Doesn't have to be farm hoovers like AM or anything but if I get to play your Svens, Juggernauts, Drow Rangers, etc., I'm happy. I don't like playing carry more than I like winning and I think having a balanced team comp is more important than getting to be the guy who last hits so I wound up playing a lot of support, which I don't mind *too* much since I do like playing support from time to time. More than I wanted to, though, since if you let people pick before you do then you're pretty much guaranteeing that you're playing position 6. And the "tens of minutes" thing is kind of disingenuous. In a "regular" game, by which I mean with proper teams playing a balanced comp rather than a "regular" pub game of 3 HCs 1 jungler 1 support, most carries will beat most supports 1v1 around minute 15. Sure, you get to bully Slark from minutes 1 to 10 as Lion, but from minute 15 and on, up to 40 and perhaps more, you're food. Cape Cod Crab Chip fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Dec 12, 2016 |
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Dec 12, 2016 17:13
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Role-based queue is a pretty recent thing, you def. Have pubstar carries but I guess the metagame does a better job of discouraging 5 carry teams. The rest of your post is fair though. I will say that while its not as fun as the first minutes where you're gibbing fools, it's still immensely satisfying lategame chain-hexing carries or watching my ult bounce about as Lich.
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Dec 12, 2016 17:17
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league pushing the carry jungle style of play was actually pretty brilliant from a longevity perspective since it reduces the amount of people that are on "support duty." theres still a pretty serious bottleneck formed around waiting on 1 support to fill a lobby, but most people are ok with getting filled into it now and then if they don't have to do it every game and makes pub games a lot more civil because of it.
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Dec 12, 2016 17:17
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Neurolimal posted:Role-based queue is a pretty recent thing, you def. Have pubstar carries but I guess the metagame does a better job of discouraging 5 carry teams. The rest of your post is fair though. I will say that while its not as fun as the first minutes where you're gibbing fools, it's still immensely satisfying lategame chain-hexing carries or watching my ult bounce about as Lich. My main fun as Lich is to do really reckless warding and then get a double kill because they sent exactly two people to go and kill me. Or one guy who stood really close to a creep camp.
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Dec 12, 2016 17:56
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https://twitter.com/wykrhm/status/808098555961294849 Zeus Aghs seems pretty awful to me
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Dec 12, 2016 18:12
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GOOD TIMES ON METH posted:https://twitter.com/wykrhm/status/808098555961294849 Nah it's good.
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Dec 12, 2016 18:15
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CVE posted:If you're close with your hero it doesn't matter for damage spells as they get gravekeepers reduction. Guess they can be stunned or astraled with might suck though.
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Dec 12, 2016 18:20
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Not sure why y'all think stacking and pulling are dead, you can pull the small on :12/:42 or :16/:46 and big camp on :23/:53 just like before. Didn't experiment too much but you would probably stack pull the small at :54 and 1:12 and have the other supp stack pull the hard at :53 and 1:53. Then secure runes and do a chain pull on 3:12. Wonder how much XP the offlaner would get there.
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Dec 12, 2016 18:23
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GOOD TIMES ON METH posted:https://twitter.com/wykrhm/status/808098555961294849 No, imagine if Undying's Tombstone had a global cast range and spammed a high damage nuke that ministunned you.
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Dec 12, 2016 18:28
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so now you can stack one of the 4 ancient camps with lich and then just aghs ult to clear it right?
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Dec 12, 2016 18:31
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schmitty9800 posted:Not sure why y'all think stacking and pulling are dead, you can pull the small on :12/:42 or :16/:46 and big camp on :23/:53 just like before. Didn't experiment too much but you would probably stack pull the small at :54 and 1:12 and have the other supp stack pull the hard at :53 and 1:53. Then secure runes and do a chain pull on 3:12. Wonder how much XP the offlaner would get there. How can you stack at 1:53, the camp doesn't spawn at 2 minutes? Unless I didn't understand the change? I thought camps are spawning at :30, 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, and so on. Edit: Unless you're saying stack at :53 and pull at 1:53? mikeraskol fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Dec 12, 2016 |
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Dec 12, 2016 18:34
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Cape Cod Crab Chip posted:Is this really surprising to you? I haven't played much LoL but during what little time I spent playing it as part of my "Dota methadone" phase, I saw a whole hell of a lot of Lucians and Jinxes and whoever else fits the ADC mold Doesn't LoL charge per hero, and it's nearly impossible to have all of them? That would effect the average players versatility.
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Dec 12, 2016 18:38
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