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He'll never be head of a major corporation.
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Sep 21, 2018 23:10
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Dillbag posted:He'll never be head of a major corporation. If there's a tree pun here, someone help me figure it out I'm stumped
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Sep 21, 2018 23:26
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Log out.
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Sep 21, 2018 23:39
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Zauper posted:My BIL got a masters in teaching because it was required in his state. He decided he didn't like teaching, so now he's back in school getting his 2nd and 3rd masters. Library science and I don't remember the third. He won't enter the workforce until he's 30+. Why the gently caress is a masters required? That's absolutely terrible, including for example you listed where people aren't sure if they want to teach. How much proof is there that grad degrees are better for student outcomes?
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Sep 22, 2018 00:30
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hailthefish posted:Log out. 
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Sep 22, 2018 01:04
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Nirvikalpa posted:Why the gently caress is a masters required? That's absolutely terrible, including for example you listed where people aren't sure if they want to teach. How much proof is there that grad degrees are better for student outcomes? Libraries are yet another place where we've thrown up high barriers to entry through certifications and degrees. Most librarian positions require a 2-year master's degree pay less than 50k starting.
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Sep 22, 2018 01:11
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Library Science is probably the worst return on investment when it comes to pay. You're not going anywhere without a masters in Library Science, but it's not like you're going that far even with the Masters. Source: a roommate who was a librarian.
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Sep 22, 2018 01:40
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shh
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Sep 22, 2018 01:58
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FAUXTON posted:Yeah unless she's got some big ol' wide-rear end doors all over that the fridge can be sent through from start to finish, most of the time the doors have to come off the fridge to fit into/out of the house. Thornton is a suburb of over 100K people. I lived there for a few years. It has a moderately high Hispanic population. 80% of it is dreadfully dull, 20% is mildly sketchy. You can be in downtown Denver in 30 minutes or less. It's populated by a combination of blue collar workers, average suburban families looking for a tiny bit more bang for the buck housing wise than they get elsewhere, downtown bus commuters, and 20 something couples who don't want to or can't afford to live downtown. Not exactly an isolated, racist enclave. Also, the deep freeze was probably in her garage. Not that it matters, because this is either stdh.txt or a stupidity tax for her.
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Sep 22, 2018 02:01
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Krispy Wafer posted:Library Science is probably the worst return on investment when it comes to pay. You're not going anywhere without a masters in Library Science, but it's not like you're going that far even with the Masters. Can you break down exactly what library science entails? Because it seems to me that it's logistics, fairly close to warehouse type of logistics, some business/budgeting/etc and a bit of domain specific knowledge. Not like masters degree specific kind of knowledge.
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Sep 22, 2018 02:04
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Speaking of cc benefits a few pages ago.. I got a new card a few months back and read through all the fine print. Turns out it come with some kind of hostage compensation scheme. If I'm held hostage on any form of public transport, and I've used my Amex to pay for the ticket, then I get a payout. And the amount increases, the longer the dentenion. Just seems really weird, considering the card doesn't even come with regular travel insurance.
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Sep 22, 2018 02:06
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Another benefit of extreme churning. Bus gets hijacked and a close relative gets a free 13 day vacation.https://www.americanexpress.com/content/dam/amex/au/staticassets/pdf/insurance/PlatinumInsurance1November2017.pdf posted:1. In the event of Hijacking
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Sep 22, 2018 02:19
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Nirvikalpa posted:Why the gently caress is a masters required? That's absolutely terrible, including for example you listed where people aren't sure if they want to teach. How much proof is there that grad degrees are better for student outcomes? Three states require it. You'd have to ask them! They do have to teach as part of the process to get it, but...
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Sep 22, 2018 02:27
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Asimov posted:Another benefit of extreme churning. Bus gets hijacked and a close relative gets a free 13 day vacation. "Per occurance," no less!
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Sep 22, 2018 02:33
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$2000 per 24 hours? If I get kidnapped my relatives get the best vacation of their lives.
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Sep 22, 2018 02:48
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OctaviusBeaver posted:$2000 per 24 hours? If I get kidnapped my relatives get the best vacation of their lives. They could even afford full time bodyguards while they stay at the Mandarin Oriental.
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Sep 22, 2018 02:52
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Motronic posted:Can you break down exactly what library science entails? Because it seems to me that it's logistics, fairly close to warehouse type of logistics, some business/budgeting/etc and a bit of domain specific knowledge. Not like masters degree specific kind of knowledge. Librarian here. It's more than just about logistics. You build/prune collections for your users, deal with your users, manage collections over tens or hundreds of years, build systems that provide access to huge varieties of material. That's not to defend the master's requirement for every library gig. A lot of that could be an undergrad degree, but like a lot of businesses, it costs libraries nothing to demand that future employees pay for their own training.
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Sep 22, 2018 04:25
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Giant Metal Robot posted:Librarian here. It's more than just about logistics. You build/prune collections for your users, deal with your users, manage collections over tens or hundreds of years, build systems that provide access to huge varieties of material. Okay, I mean...I get that and I'm not trying to minimize the kinds of things that could be possibly required for the top end of that profession. But for some local/county library? Or an elementary school? Are you really in a position to curate "collections over tens or hundreds of years"? Are these more mundane types of library jobs not the norm rather than the exception?
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Sep 22, 2018 04:35
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Motronic posted:Okay, I mean...I get that and I'm not trying to minimize the kinds of things that could be possibly required for the top end of that profession. But for some local/county library? Or an elementary school? Are you really in a position to curate "collections over tens or hundreds of years"? Are these more mundane types of library jobs not the norm rather than the exception? I'm more on the research collection side of things, so that's where I know things get complicated. On the public/school side of things, the two big things my colleagues talk about are 1. getting materials that support their communities 2. dealing with their communities. The second is huge because that interaction includes IT support, after-school daycare, teaching information literacy, homeless support, and more. But still, requiring 6 years of higher-ed to do that or what I do is ridiculous and means only people that can take on the debt can get the qualification for the job. Guess how white my profession is? And it's an example of another poverty trap. To get the job, you need the qualification, and the qualification gets more expensive and more legalized every year. My state requires annual professional development time for my job, and it isn't funded by my employer.
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Sep 22, 2018 04:50
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I mean a Master's is usually only two more years of schooling, that's not a whole lot given how dumb a ton of 4 year degree holders are. Librarians are in charge of curating large bodies of academic work. Education wise, it's not an unreasonable expectation or demand for that type of role and the level of abstract thinking + analysis that it requires, whether talking about logistics, curating, formulating and implementing different systems that interact, or catering to the needs of your local community Whether it's a good or bad investment, I can't really speak to that personally E: to put it simply, librarian is a leadership role, one where your decisions impact hundreds, thousands, or tens of thousands of stakeholders. The educational requirements are nothing too outrageous imo as most leadership roles require robust qualifications KingSlime fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Sep 22, 2018 |
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Sep 22, 2018 04:56
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Is it wrong to assume that librarians are the old school version of “I like vidja games, so I’m going to go to school to make video games”, but with books and the job market is saturated so there’s no jobs and they don’t pay very well?
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Sep 22, 2018 05:38
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Sepherothic posted:From /r/bestoflegaladvice : The bite from tree lawyers is much worse than their bark! They will get to the root cause of the problem!
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Sep 22, 2018 07:28
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Can you knot.
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Sep 22, 2018 10:20
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Motronic posted:Okay, I mean...I get that and I'm not trying to minimize the kinds of things that could be possibly required for the top end of that profession. But for some local/county library? Or an elementary school? Are you really in a position to curate "collections over tens or hundreds of years"? Are these more mundane types of library jobs not the norm rather than the exception? As I understand it, library science as a masters can go down a lot of routes. There's a lot of stuff around how to conduct research. There's also a lot on how to manage a library. Some of the programs now also teach database design. Frankly, the skills taught are more valuable from an income perspective if they go into research over being a librarian. My BIL wants to run a specialty library though. Not all librarian jobs require the masters, but many do. Local / county I'd expect it to. Elementary probably not.
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Sep 22, 2018 11:20
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Cacafuego posted:Is it wrong to assume that librarians are the old school version of “I like vidja games, so I’m going to go to school to make video games”, but with books and the job market is saturated so there’s no jobs and they don’t pay very well? Absolutely. For a lot of people I met in library school, the library degree is their second masters. It's the one that would turn their first master's degree in English/Art History/etc into a job that could pay the bills.
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Sep 22, 2018 13:16
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There's nothing you can say to convince me that an elementary school librarian needs a master's degree, which in some states they do. You are not curating a timeless collection of picture books and sub 100 page young adult fiction to be passed down through the ages. It requires some record keeping and basic computer skills.
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Sep 22, 2018 13:21
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Relevant article about credentialism and meritocracy: https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/05/college-promise-economy-does-no-201451411124734124.html It's cited in David Graeber's book The Utopia of Rules: On Technology, Stupidity, and the Secret Joys of Bureaucracy, which continues: David Graeber posted:One could repeat the story in field after field, from nurses to art teachers, physical therapists to foreign policy consultants. Almost every endeavour that used to be considered an art (best learned through doing) now requires formal professional training and a certificate of completion, and this seems to be happening, equally, in both the private and public sectors, since, as already noted, in matters bureaucratic, such distinctions are becoming effectively meaningless. While these measures are touted--as are all bureaucratic measures--as a way of creating fair, impersonal mechanisms in fields previously dominated by insider knowledge and social connections, the effect is often the opposite. As anyone who has been to graduate school knows, it's precisely the children of the professional-managerial classes, those whose family resources make them the least in need of financial support, who know best how to navigate the world of paperwork that enables them to get said support. For everyone else, the main result of one's years of professional training is to ensure that one is saddled with such an enormous burden of student debt that a substantial chunk of any subsequent income one will get from pursuing that profession will henceforth be siphoned off, each month, by the financial sector. In some cases, these new training requirements can only be described as outright scams, as when lenders, and those prepared to set up the training programs, jointly lobby the government to insist that, say, all pharmacists be henceforth required to pass some additional qualifying examination, forcing thousands already practicing the profession into night school, which these pharmacists know many will only be able to afford with the help of high-interest student loans. By doing this, lenders are in effect legislating themselves a cut of most pharmacists' subsequent incomes.
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Sep 22, 2018 14:05
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Giant Metal Robot posted:Absolutely. For a lot of people I met in library school, the library degree is their second masters. It's the one that would turn their first master's degree in English/Art History/etc into a job that could pay the bills. Every teacher-friend I've ever had fantasizes about becoming a librarian. I always assume it's because you can be an educator/role-model/improver-of-children's-lives without having to sing and dance for the same 20-30 little monsters all day erryday
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Sep 22, 2018 14:05
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Sock The Great posted:There's nothing you can say to convince me that an elementary school librarian needs a master's degree, which in some states they do. You are not curating a timeless collection of picture books and sub 100 page young adult fiction to be passed down through the ages. It requires some record keeping and basic computer skills. Only a handful of states require Masters to teach, but I’m honestly not sure whether grade school libraries require post-graduate work. If Masters are needed, I wouldn’t be surprised if school librarians demand it. There’s a reason the same old crusty elementary school librarian is at your school 20 years after you left. It’s a pretty safe job that no one else in the school can do. I think most of the ‘specialty’ positions are like that. They like those high barriers to enter the profession. I once had a 6 week art instructor gig get torpedoed because the teacher mistakenly thought my Bachelors of Arts was an Art degree. The moment she realized I wasn’t an Art major I was out of there, even though I have a art background and experience in dark rooms, which they were inexplicably going to be teaching middle schoolers to use in the year 2013. Man, that would have been awesome.
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Sep 22, 2018 14:39
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mellifluous posted:Relevant article about credentialism and meritocracy: https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/05/college-promise-economy-does-no-201451411124734124.html That book sounds interesting. Reminds me of all the pointless certifications required to practice professions. I can’t imagine the pain I’d suffer if I went to an unlicensed barber.
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Sep 22, 2018 14:42
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I pity the poor bastards in software in 10-20 years that will suddenly require college degrees and a pile of certifications that will be immediately eclipsed by any amount of actual job experience. Right now it's the wild west where anybody who can rub two bytes together and has had the fortune of finding a single programming job or contract can effectively get work in perpetuity.
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Sep 22, 2018 14:59
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"Licensed barbers" are a libertarian meme complaint because they are incapable of understanding that maybe people wielding razor blades against your skin should have some basic level of training about disinfection, hygiene, and blood borne pathogens
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Sep 22, 2018 15:03
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CheesyDog posted:"Licensed barbers" are a libertarian meme complaint because they are incapable of understanding that maybe people wielding razor blades against your skin should have some basic level of training about disinfection, hygiene, and blood borne pathogens The complaint still holds because in my state it takes 1500 hours of classroom time to become licensed to cut hair. Yes, 9 months of 40 hour weeks and a 5 figure tuition bill. There is no required license to prepare or serve food.
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Sep 22, 2018 15:22
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Medicine is full of certification BS. This year to renew my med license I have to do additional educational modules on opioid prescribing, even though I haven’t written any prescriptions in 6 years, and child abuse in a setting where I don’t see children. Physical therapy used to be a bachelor’s, then master’s, now it’s a doctorate degree. Same pay, more time in school/debt. The real money, of course, isn’t doing something but training/certifying someone else to do it.
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Sep 22, 2018 15:26
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canyoneer posted:The complaint still holds because in my state it takes 1500 hours of classroom time to become licensed to cut hair. Yes, 9 months of 40 hour weeks and a 5 figure tuition bill. Did you ever think of why licenses and inspections became requirements everywhere? It's not just because the government wanted to butt in to your life. poo poo like ringworm and impetigo used to be common. Hell, people used to even get anthrax from barbers. It killed a congressman and at least 10 other people in 1921 when a brush used to apply shaving cream was contaminated with anthrax. This is the same line of thinking that lead to antivaxxers Inept fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Sep 22, 2018 |
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Sep 22, 2018 15:36
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howdoesishotweb posted:Physical therapy used to be a bachelor’s, then master’s, now it’s a doctorate degree. Same pay, more time in school/debt. The real money, of course, isn’t doing something but training/certifying someone else to do it. Always pays to be the middleman. Just like gold rush: don’t dig for gold, sell the shovels and picks to the shmucks digging for gold.
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Sep 22, 2018 15:39
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Inept posted:Did you ever think of why licenses and inspections became requirements everywhere? It's not just because the government wanted to butt in to your life. poo poo like ringworm and impetigo used to be common. Hell, people used to even get anthrax from barbers. It killed a congressman and at least 10 other people in 1921 when a brush used to apply shaving cream was contaminated with anthrax. I’m going to go out on a limb and say they solved the ringworm and anthrax problems before they required 9 months of classroom work to get a barber license. It’s a double edged sword. Those licensing or union/apprenticeship requirements keep wages high, but they also contribute to a FYGM attitude. The people benefiting the most from that stuff are Boomers and old rear end Gen-Xers because the system is made to restrict access and create scarcity. It’s why restaurant worker unions are generally so lame compared to Teamsters, airline, and teachers’ unions. There’s no barriers to entry for working in food service.
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Sep 22, 2018 15:43
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Inept posted:Did you ever think of why licenses and inspections became requirements everywhere? It's not just because the government wanted to butt in to your life. poo poo like ringworm and impetigo used to be common. Hell, people used to even get anthrax from barbers. It killed a congressman and at least 10 other people in 1921 when a brush used to apply shaving cream was contaminated with anthrax.  It takes fewer hours in some places to become a licensed full paramedic than it does to be licensed to cut and color hair. The first 10 hours of barber licensing are about public health, the next 1,490 hours are about putting up a barrier to entry. No idea how long it takes to become a certified animal reiki practitioner.
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Sep 22, 2018 16:44
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Krispy Wafer posted:I’m going to go out on a limb and say they solved the ringworm and anthrax problems before they required 9 months of classroom work to get a barber license.
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Sep 22, 2018 18:17
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Sock The Great posted:There's nothing you can say to convince me that an elementary school librarian needs a master's degree, which in some states they do. You are not curating a timeless collection of picture books and sub 100 page young adult fiction to be passed down through the ages. It requires some record keeping and basic computer skills. "Your not going to convince me a job I know nothing about requires an education I know nothing about.'
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