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insanityv2 posted:Lots of people are calling Martin Random out for bitching about taking this test. I'm curious, are these types of tests common? What purpose do they serve that the bar doesn't? I've never heard of anyone requiring anything close to this in my entire career, regardless of the kind of law firm or the credentials of the applicant.
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Jul 26, 2012 01:38
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The bar exam people are now in that glorious post bar period. It's like after taking a massive dump. "Ohh.. OHH... OH MY GOD... NO OH GOD OH OH.... ahhhhhhh.... oh thank you jesus". Like 1/4 of their brain cells die off in a massive memory leak, and they can return to the land of the living.
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Jul 26, 2012 01:54
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Definitely need a good day tomorrow. God drat it.
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Jul 26, 2012 02:06
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The experience was strange. It was a solo attorney office with like four support staff, all of whom behaved in a bizarre manner. I knocked on the door and the "front desk" guy, a mid-30's guy with a paunch wearing a hunting vest and a bright blue sweatshirt, answered and had me come in, then we stood in the doorway nose to nose for like five seconds, him breathing really heavy, and I'm all, "Hi. I'm Martin Random." He snaps back into action and starts tittering in a really high pitched tone and says all at once, "I'm sorry, I didn't expect anyone to come through this door today I was so surprised do you have an appointment," "Yes." "Oh I am sorry. I'm really scattered. I'm sorry." Then he tells me that he needs to check some files and to sit down in the next room and immediately flees to this other room that is darkened. I'm standing in the doorway sort of looking around at piles of keyboards and junk and wind chimes and random poo poo, when I hear his breathing - he's in the darkened room, in that little space behind the door, breathing, and I can see his one eye staring at me through the gap. Since he's watching me and sees me watch him watch me, I stop dawdling and go and sit down in the appointed room - it's got this old, old wooden creaky tea table with a bunch of mismatched chairs, and a sort of side nook with a bunch of crap and dead plants, and pots of dirt. The tittery guy comes in and gives me a "job application" which is barely legible since it's been xeroxed so many times. As he's giving it to me he is freaking out and unable to explain anything and apologizing so I have to calm him down, saying, "It's ok. It's ok. Slow down. It's fine. Start over." and making these calming gestures with my hands. The application asks me questions about my high school and "grammar school" and other nonsense obviously not suited to this job. There's a supplemental application about auto accidents and other random stuff. I ask if I can just give my resume instead of re-writing everything, "I'm sorry. No, Mrs. Xavier likes it when it's all in order. I'm sorry." It's one of those applications that asks you a really in-depth question and gives you half an inch of space to answer it. The guy gives me the spelling test which is ridiculously long and easy, then I do some spot corrections. Two hours have passed thus far. Finally, the attorney herself shows up dressed in bright pink sweat pants and a cat sweater, breathing laboriously from the climb up the stairs, and sits down heavily and starts talking to me about her practice, how her law office is a jewish home, eventually wandering into an in-depth discussion of yiddish and then jewish philosophy. Her associates keep finding other places to work for various reasons. The one guy she just lost ten days ago moved jobs to somewhere 30 minutes away to be "closer to his family." She wants someone to give the practice to. "We are like a family here but we like to keep chit chat to a minimum." I notice this - there are 5 people in the office working in close proximity and nobody is saying a word to anyone else. It's very depressing. The office itself is depressing. Everything is brown and old and there are piles of poo poo everywhere and the support staff is hunkered down in these little hovel desks placed randomly underneath these towering piles of crap. Even the "testing room" had junk all over, like used scratch paper from previous interviewees stuffed into the bookshelves. I'm pretty tired and hungry and hung-over at this point. She gives me the statutory test. The room is stuffy and smells horrible and I can't think straight, but I go through it. The attorney keeps popping in and giving me "hints," she's super friendly and really wants to give me the job, but her hints are all weird and lead me down strange side-alleys and end up wasting my time. "Read the definitions REALLY CLOSELY, they ALWAYS GET THAT WRONG." "Listen, I only want you to look at TWO statutory sections. TWO. I have TWO specific ones in mind. And one of the statutes in there is a red herring, ignore it!" She pops in and says, "I want this to be a memo addressed to nobody that will go into the client's file." then, "I want this to be a memo that is a good letter to the client, that does not talk about the specific facts of this case." "It needs to be simple and to the point." "It should be very detailed and give information that the client might need some day." So I'm re-reading the definitions and re-writing this memo because this woman is starting to psych me out. I eventually just ignore her. She comes back and looks over my memo, which she doesn't like for two reasons, one, it doesn't follow a standard format that her office uses, the 5 W's of journalism laid out for every statute cited, who what where why and when. "You have this statute here that you're explaining, but you don't start out with WHO needs to follow it." Bizarre. I could never get straight what the second reason was, but it basically boiled down to, "This is not how I wrote it when I wrote this memo on this exact problem... my work really went in depth." Then she throws the memo away and says she wants to give me the job even though I failed her test. She's very nice and she wants to hire me. I nod at everything she says except for "I'm not a very smart person." I head out and get a call - pop is sick, gotta head home. Going north on I-5 now, getting out of LA.
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Jul 26, 2012 02:22
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No idea what to make of that story but I sincerely hope your pops is OK.
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Jul 26, 2012 02:32
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Cool story bro.
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Jul 26, 2012 02:36
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555555 excellent story goon sire keep 'em coming
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Jul 26, 2012 02:58
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Sitting for the cal bar. Showed up yesterday with my laptop. Oakland says sorry we don't have enough power for everyone. Had to handwrite all my essays because they didn't plan properly. I want my laptop fee back....
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Jul 26, 2012 03:04
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methamphetamine posted:Sitting for the cal bar. Showed up yesterday with my laptop. Oakland says sorry we don't have enough power for everyone. Had to handwrite all my essays because they didn't plan properly. I want my laptop fee back.... Heard about this. Glad I was in San Jose even though most of my friends are either Oakland or SD. Goonspeed tomorrow sir.
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Jul 26, 2012 04:51
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Martin Random posted:She's very nice and she wants to hire me. I nod at everything she says except for "I'm not a very smart person." I head out and get a call - pop is sick, gotta head home. Going north on I-5 now, getting out of LA. What area of practice? It seems weird that a solo would care about memos at all.
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Jul 26, 2012 05:00
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HolySwissCheese posted:Here's what wiki says. No idea if this helps Actually, it did help. I hadn't seen that before. And thank Jesus it's over; now I can just barf myself every morning out of anxiety until September 18.
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Jul 26, 2012 05:26
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And to make it all the best two weeks of my life: last Monday I had to put my 18 year old cat to sleep when her time came suddenly...like, Saturday she was great as usual and then she was ready to die on Sunday. And then today the Marriott valet manager informed me that my car was involved in a collision while it was in their control:(
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Jul 26, 2012 05:34
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Tetrix posted:what was the answer to that mbe question about the bomb planted in the plane that kills 3 people? It was murder for all three due to transferred intent, right?
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Jul 26, 2012 06:38
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So glad to be finished. One fairly crazy bar story: the guy sitting next to me stopped by McDonald's this morning for breakfast, and as he was backing out of his parking spot, he ran over an elderly couple in their 70s. The man fell over, hit his head, and was unconscious for a bit. The guy had to call an ambulance, wait to file the police report, etc. and just barely made it to his seat in time. He called the woman over the lunch break and the man had been released from the hospital and just had a concussion, so he seemed okay, but it sounds like that guy could use a lawyer...
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Jul 26, 2012 06:55
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Grammar Fascist posted:So glad to be finished.
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Jul 26, 2012 07:09
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woozle wuzzle posted:What area of practice? It seems weird that a solo would care about memos at all. It's basically a collections firm that serves a very specific clientelle. What she really wanted was an opinion letter for the client, but she was really bad at conveying that. I'm going to send her a letter tomorrow telling her no thanks. I think her office is set up so that random members of the public are not supposed to show up. I did a little background on her and the nervous guy manning the front desk is ex-military, so I'm thinking he's got PTSD or something. The associate that fled was ex-military too. It struck me that everyone capable of leaving that office for something better has already. I could probably do the job, but she'd be a terrible teacher. She has sole-practitioner syndrome. I get the feeling the mass torts job is going to evaporate as the firm decides it doesn't have the finances to bring on a new associate, no matter how bad the partner wants one. I don't ever tell anyone stories about my life, because it is strange. Martin Random fucked around with this message at 07:56 on Jul 26, 2012 |
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Jul 26, 2012 07:51
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Would you say it is...random???
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Jul 26, 2012 13:01
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This is a safe space Phil Moskewitz. Please stop triggering me with your disbeliefs
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Jul 26, 2012 13:33
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Martin Random posted:It's basically a collections firm that serves a very specific clientelle.
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Jul 26, 2012 14:39
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Phil Moscowitz posted:Would you say it is...random??? I think that is why I have a soft spot for good old Martin. I can only assume his name is some sort of Chronicles of Amber reference. And such a person cannot be all bad.
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Jul 26, 2012 14:43
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Linguica posted:It's "clientele". Well there's a word I didn't get right on the spelling test. I get the sense that the balance of the thread is against my continued participation here, so I'll keep my job search to myself from this point on, unless I have a specific question. Edit: And for the record, I was wrong to assume her test was a bitchy power thing - she was actually incredibly nice and accommodating. Edit 2: Haters gonna hate, and I like talking about my poo poo, so I'm gonna keep you all updated even if you're all hating on me. Martin Random fucked around with this message at 15:05 on Jul 26, 2012 |
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Jul 26, 2012 14:52
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Martin Random posted:It's basically a collections firm that serves a very specific clientelle. Linguica posted:It's "clientele". No, the clients are all women. 
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Jul 26, 2012 14:53
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Martin Random posted:It's basically a collections firm that serves a very specific clientelle. What she really wanted was an opinion letter for the client, but she was really bad at conveying that. I'm going to send her a letter tomorrow telling her no thanks. As far as the office being setup so that random members of the public aren't invited in, that's not uncommon at all. Several firms in our building, including ours, have no solicitation signs posted. As a matter of firm policy, we don't take on individual clients or even very small businesses, and as such we don't want them wandering in throughout the day just to get told no. If you've been out of work in the field for 2 years and have never held down a job as an attorney, I would be inclined to take their offer unless you have something better on the table. Accepting a job doesn't mean you're going to be there forever and something on your resume under the heading "Experience" looks better than more of nothing. You don't want another year to go by and you're still looking for that prestigious job with no work experience whatsoever. A buddy of mine from law school decided he was going to move to California after graduating (dumb bastard...). A few months into his first job, the associates noticed their pay checks were late. After a while, they confronted the partners, who told them they had no money to pay them. He ended up joining the other associates in a lawsuit against the partners, but in the meantime he had at least gained enough experience and business contacts that he landed a good job at a reputable firm (or at least one that had the money to pay him).
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Jul 26, 2012 15:21
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Napoleon I posted:It was murder for all three due to transferred intent, right? I picked all 3. The part about hoping the BOMB ON THE PLANE would only kill one guy and not the other was total horse-poo poo. Depraved heart murder. Dude knew what would happen. Anyone one that plan was dead. FYI future bar takers, BarBri and Kaplan are PURE poo poo. DO NOT waste your money. The BarBri and Kaplan materials I bought, about 1,000 practice MBE questions, were GARBAGE. poo poo tons of tricky exception to excpetion questions, and NOT A SINGLE ONE showed up on the bar. Meanwhile there were a ton of MBE questions with concepts NEVER covered in the Kaplan and BarBri questions. Save your money and download the free 1992 and 1998 MBE questions from the MBE site. So pissed I wasted my time with Kaplan and BarBri trash and made pages of notes based on missed questions that were totally worthless for the actual exam. Hope I passed. Boosted_C5 fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Jul 26, 2012 |
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Jul 26, 2012 15:28
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Martin Random posted:Well there's a word I didn't get right on the spelling test. Wait until you have a meth head throw $374 dollars in crumpled bills at you to get their baby back.
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Jul 26, 2012 15:34
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bozwell posted:If you've been out of work in the field for 2 years and have never held down a job as an attorney, I would be inclined to take their offer unless you have something better on the table. Accepting a job doesn't mean you're going to be there forever and something on your resume under the heading "Experience" looks better than more of nothing. You don't want another year to go by and you're still looking for that prestigious job with no work experience whatsoever. I agree with you completely, and these are concerns. I've got experience, and really good experience, it's just stale. This is my first week of looking for work, and I got two bites and one offer. Pulling up all my stakes, abandoning my local contacts, and relocating to the burbs of LA for that situation strikes me as unwise. She said a bunch of stuff and acted in ways during the interview that really set me on edge... and her staff was completely loving weird. She's been in practice for 25 years and she's charging $200 an hour and is not taken seriously by other attorneys. I'm sure she'd pay me, at least. It's only been one week added to my two years of nothing; I'm positive something better will come along. I have a few other options - I am going to try to land a contract gig at a local civil defense firm where my references are tight with the partners and where my sister worked and was loved. I made a lot of cash from my biglaw gig, some lucky investments, and a few business ventures in the last three years, so I can sit tight for a while, years if need be. Edit: She said during the interview, "Other attorneys don't take me seriously, but my office is innovative; I have invented new causes of action in my cases that have won." Boosted_C5 posted:FYI future bar takers, BarBri and Kaplan are PURE poo poo. DO NOT waste your money. The BarBri and Kaplan materials I bought, about 1,000 practice MBE questions, were GARBAGE. poo poo tons of tricky exception to excpetion questions, and NOT A SINGLE ONE showed up on the bar. I remember thinking that the actual multi choice questions were so much easier on the bar. I think that BarBri's whole point with their tricky questions is to scare you into consistently studying and to give you some direction. I mean, without those guides, I don't know how I would have studied for the bar. Reading code sections or something? Martin Random fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Jul 26, 2012 |
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Jul 26, 2012 15:38
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Martin Random posted:She said a bunch of stuff and acted in ways during the interview that really set me on edge... and her staff was completely loving weird. She's been in practice for 25 years and she's charging $200 an hour and is not taken seriously by other attorneys. I'm sure she'd pay me, at least. I really think you have to go with your gut on this kind of thing. After my clerkship, I took the first firm job that was offered to me because I was terrified of not having a job. I had two interviews with the firm. After the first interview I almost withdrew from contention because I had such a terrible feeling about them. But I didn't because everyone around me convinced me to see how the second interview went. The second interview was a little better, I accepted the job, and proceeded to have an absolutely miserable year until I could find another job. My first instinct was exactly right. I told myself I would never ignore that feeling again. Luckily, I haven't faced that in any interviews I've had since.
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Jul 26, 2012 16:22
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Martin Random posted:I remember thinking that the actual multi choice questions were so much easier on the bar. I think that BarBri's whole point with their tricky questions is to scare you into consistently studying and to give you some direction. I mean, without those guides, I don't know how I would have studied for the bar. Reading code sections or something? I agree, and that seemed to be the consensus of my friends taking it at the time as well. I suppose your theory on motive is as good as any. Probably the most helpful part of practice MBE was getting me to slow down and read all the answer choices and make sure I read the call. I did like the essay prep though, with the 'what is likely to be covered and here is a decade worth of statistics on what has been covered'.
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Jul 26, 2012 17:08
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quepasa18 posted:I really think you have to go with your gut on this kind of thing. After my clerkship, I took the first firm job that was offered to me because I was terrified of not having a job. I had two interviews with the firm. After the first interview I almost withdrew from contention because I had such a terrible feeling about them. But I didn't because everyone around me convinced me to see how the second interview went. The second interview was a little better, I accepted the job, and proceeded to have an absolutely miserable year until I could find another job. My first instinct was exactly right. I told myself I would never ignore that feeling again. Luckily, I haven't faced that in any interviews I've had since. Not law related, but the one and only time I had a 'this is a bad idea and something is wrong here' feeling about a job, I quit after three weeks. Several years later, the guy's name shows up on Google as a scam artist who's facing a class action. Always go with your gut on those.
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Jul 26, 2012 17:38
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Martin Random posted:
Did you change your mind after having a conversation with yourself?
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Jul 26, 2012 17:38
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after action report: the Michigan bar is a bizarre experience where they shove about 900 kids into Michigan State's basketball arena where we all silently sweat and scribble around each other. the essays went great relatively, although two essays were on topics that have never been tested and the collective FREAKOUT left me feeling okay about it because i thought it was unexpected but manageable. the MBE was way, way harder than I was anticipating but i went on the asperger law school forum (you know the one i'm talking about) and if group consensus is correct i probably did at least okay. All things considered I would say I'm 90% sure I passed. It didn't go as well as I had hoped but it went much, much better than I had feared.
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Jul 26, 2012 17:55
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For those of you who feel like a PHD in law is too much, it looks like Emory is going the other direction: http://www.law.emory.edu/fileadmin/NEWWEBSITE/Academics/JM/ARlpages/index_ar.html
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Jul 26, 2012 18:14
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HiddenReplaced posted:For those of you who feel like a PHD in law is too much, it looks like Emory is going the other direction: That's not a horrible idea for people who want a "law degree" but have no intention of ever using it. Whether that's enough to sustain the program, I have no idea. Law schools are build on the shattered dreams of people like that.
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Jul 26, 2012 18:39
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http://abovethelaw.com/2012/07/bar-exam-horror-stories-there-will-be-blood-and-power-outages/2/ Looks like the guys taking the NC bar had a stressful day where the power went out on them. I don't envy that experience. At least it'll give the guys who didn't study a great excuse though for why they failed.
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Jul 26, 2012 18:53
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Feces Starship posted:after action report:  What were the two new topics? I'm not reading xo at work Soothing Vapors fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Jul 26, 2012 |
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Jul 26, 2012 19:13
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Holy poo poo did they actually test commercial paper
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Jul 26, 2012 19:31
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J Miracle posted:Holy poo poo did they actually test commercial paper All I learned from commercial paper is how mind blowingly scary checks are
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Jul 26, 2012 19:53
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tested creditors rights/sec trans in one question (there was - i'm not kidding - an audible gasp at around forty minutes from somewhere near the north end of the arena when everyone turned to that question) and trusts. the creditor rights question was only inexplicable because it was nowhere in barbri. it involved a lady who signed a mortgage with a bank that had a mortgage servicer who said that they were the true owners of title and the party that had foreclosure power. then the issuing bank sold to another bank and the mortgage servicer foreclosed and then bought the house at auction, leading the lady who defaulted sue for eviction because they werent the lender and the question was like "is this cool?" and i literally made up a bunch of issues and rules. it's a really useful topic and a thing probably everyone becoming a lawyer should be forced to understand but we were the guinea pig group i guess
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Jul 26, 2012 20:35
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Had I been forced to answer that question in a vacuum I would be terrified, but I am absolutely sure that somewhere between 0 and 5% of the room knew the answer and I'm positive the ability to write well and keep calm in an emergency will keep my bullshit answer out of the bottom 20% or whatever amount of people you need to beat out in order to pass
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Jul 26, 2012 20:37
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Feces Starship posted:tested creditors rights/sec trans in one question (there was - i'm not kidding - an audible gasp at around forty minutes from somewhere near the north end of the arena when everyone turned to that question) and trusts. ahahahaha. Trusts gets tested every 4 yrs or so but cred rights? that is hilarious and awful I could barely read your summary of the question without my eyes unfocusing Feces Starship posted:Had I been forced to answer that question in a vacuum I would be terrified, but I am absolutely sure that somewhere between 0 and 5% of the room knew the answer and I'm positive the ability to write well and keep calm in an emergency will keep my bullshit answer out of the bottom 20% or whatever amount of people you need to beat out in order to pass yep. if you did something other than smear your tears on the page you're probably in the top 25% on that question
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Jul 26, 2012 21:12
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