|
Pivo posted:Er, that is a recall. "Take it in and we'll fix it for free" is literally how recalls work. Capture programs are a bit different - those are to figure out if there is an issue. They never fix it - they want those machines so they can figure out what the gently caress is wrong. They replace captured machines.
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 05:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 02:16 |
|
|
enMTW posted:Capture programs are a bit different - those are to figure out if there is an issue. They never fix it - they want those machines so they can figure out what the gently caress is wrong. They replace captured machines. The guy I spoke to at Apple, a senior advisor, called it a capture program.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 05:37
|
|
|
Pivo posted:The guy I spoke to at Apple, a senior advisor, called it a capture program. Interesting. There is a lot of literature out there about what capture programs are: they happen immediately after launch, when they start getting lots of complaints about a single issue. They 'capture' a limited number of machines with that specific issue and send them back to engineering. This is an announced recall on a part. Maybe they also have a capture program going for something else? It would be extremely unusual - a first, actually - for them to be running a capture program for a machine released in 2011.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 05:38
|
|
|
Pivo posted:Er, that is a recall. "Take it in and we'll fix it for free" is literally how recalls work. enMTW posted:This is how Apple does recalls. You, right now, have your right hand twisted behind your back with your left hand on your head. A recall program looks like this, where every device listed should be brought in for a free repair before the failure occurs, regardless of a failure: https://www.apple.com/support/iphone5-battery/ The 2011 MBP program is a warranty extension, where you will only get service if you are experiencing the problem or failure, and can claim reimbursement if you have already received service. If it was a recall, everyone who currently owns a 2011 MBP could just go in and get a new board, which isn't the case. If you have access to GSX or ATLAS training, there is an entire section on this and is very clear how to use the two: Apple's recalls are called "Replacement Programs". This is saying "there's a problem that everyone must have fixed." Apple's warranty extensions are called "Repair Extension Programs". This is saying "hey if you've had a problem, we'll fix it." Pivo posted:The guy I spoke to at Apple, a senior advisor, called it a capture program.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 05:41
|
|
|
Shin-chan posted:A recall program looks like this, where every device listed should be brought in for a free repair before the failure occurs, regardless of a failure: https://www.apple.com/support/iphone5-battery/ See, the adults were having an interesting conversation about capture programs and you come back with more inane bullshit. It's a recall. This is how Apple does recalls - in the cheapest way possible. The iPhone 5 battery was a safety issue, so everyone should do it. This is a 'computer won't work' issue, so those experiencing the issue should do it. That's it. The end.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 05:45
|
|
|
enMTW posted:See, the adults were having an interesting conversation about capture programs and you come back with more inane bullshit. No, it's really not. Recalls are telling customers to bring back in something to fix regardless if a problem has occurred yet. This is not a recall, they are stating that some units exhibit problems and they will fix them free of charge. If you can't bring in a laptop in good working order and get a part preemptively replaced then it's not a recall This is also how nearly every other computer manufacturer operates. I know HP, Lenovo and Toshiba operate similar programs. Because usage patterns are different and rarely is safety and issue, actually recalling products makes no sense, just fix it when a failure occurs
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 05:50
|
|
|
enMTW posted:See, the adults were having an interesting conversation about capture programs and you come back with more inane bullshit. I love how you get to skip over details and provide no evidence or sources and I'm the child. The battery replacement program was due to batteries not being able to hold a proper charge. It wasn't a safety issue.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 05:55
|
|
|
Shin-chan posted:I love how you get to skip over details and provide no evidence or sources and I'm the child. Battery issues are /always/ safety issues. Can you think of a single battery recall for a phone or laptop or whatnot that was 'optional'?
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 05:56
|
|
|
enMTW posted:Battery issues are /always/ safety issues. Can you think of a single battery recall for a phone or laptop or whatnot that was 'optional'? Jesus christ I wanted to rip on flavor for doing his usual game of swiftly taking offense at the tiniest things but you're worse, in your own way. I am not going to look up links because this is so long ago it has no doubt fallen off Apple's website, but when they ran a safety recall program for a powerbook g4 battery that I happened to own, they described it as a rare but real fire hazard. The iphone 5 battery replacement program does not mention safety issues at all. https://www.apple.com/support/iphone5-battery/
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 06:11
|
|
|
enMTW posted:Battery issues are /always/ safety issues. Can you think of a single battery recall for a phone or laptop or whatnot that was 'optional'? An orange is a fruit, are all fruits oranges? Can you provide evidence that this recall program: https://www.apple.com/support/iphone5-battery/ was safety related? A manufacturer/provider for Apple made some batteries that weren't properly charging or holding their charge. They informed Apple, and Apple issues a recall to replace those batteries with known good product. Apple wants the batteries replaced because they will receive compensation (monetary or otherwise) from that manufacturer for returning the known bad part. The fact that they don't hold a proper charge doesn't make them unsafe. BobHoward posted:I am not going to look up links because this is so long ago it has no doubt fallen off Apple's website, but when they ran a safety recall program for a powerbook g4 battery that I happened to own, they described it as a rare but real fire hazard. Here's a modern example: https://www.apple.com/support/ipodnano_replacement/ The very first line references safety. Shin-chan fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Feb 20, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 06:13
|
|
|
BobHoward posted:Jesus christ I wanted to rip on flavor for doing his usual game of swiftly taking offense at the tiniest things but you're worse, in your own way. Yeah you're not wrong here, but neither am I. There is no mention of fire for the iPhone 5, that is true. Once a battery is compromised - in that it is no longer performing as expected, to the extent that the OEM needs to replace it - the whole battery is on shaky ground. Can you rely on the battery to not, say, explode? Pump out fire? Probably, but it's a risk. In absence of research for this specific battery saying one way or another, OEMs recall. Everyone does it. Lenovo, Dell, HP, etc. Those guys aren't exactly the type to lose money replacing parts for fun. Shin-chan posted:An orange is a fruit, are all fruits oranges? The fact that the OEM does not know anymore - the battery failed - makes it unsafe. Nice job taking guesses at what happened with the manufacturer and Apple by the way, that was cute.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 06:14
|
|
|
enMTW posted:Nice job taking guesses at what happened with the manufacturer and Apple by the way, that was cute. This is how things work in the manufacturing world. It's not guesses. E: Fine, Apple could have found the defect and reported it to the manufacturer under a warranty/manufacturing agreement. Doesn't make your argument valid. Doesn't make them unsafe.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 06:16
|
|
|
Shin-chan posted:This is how things work in the manufacturing world. It's not guesses. You have absolutely zero idea what Apple's supplier relationship is. Tim Cook could be making GBS threads out batteries in his office for all you know. Responding to your edit, not knowing makes it unsafe. Duh. I said that fifty times already. I outlined why the industry responds to battery issues the way they do. All you've done is say 'no u'.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 06:17
|
|
|
enMTW posted:You have absolutely zero idea what Apple's supplier relationship is. Tim Cook could be making GBS threads out batteries in his office for all you know. While I can't provide evidence, and I suppose this is just anecdotal to you, but the human digestive system cannot produce a lithium ion battery. So that idea is out. Any other suggestions. enMTW posted:The fact that the OEM does not know anymore - the battery failed - makes it unsafe. Do you have evidence that Apple or the battery manufacturer "don't know" what the problem with the battery was. Do you think they just sat there and said "well this lot wasn't performing up to standards and we just have no idea why, better call them all back so we don't have a mess on our hands". Nice job taking guesses at what happened with the manufacturer and Apple by the way, that was cute. Shin-chan fucked around with this message at 06:23 on Feb 20, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 06:20
|
|
|
Shin-chan posted:While I can't provide evidence, and I suppose this is just anecdotal to you, but the human digestive system cannot produce a lithium ion battery. So that idea is out. Any other suggestions. Maybe Tim sends Eddy Cue to China with orders to assemble batteries by hand out of chunks of old sneakers or something. Shin-chan posted:Do you have evidence that Apple or the battery manufacturer "don't know" what the problem with the battery was. Do you think they just sat there and said "well this lot wasn't performing up to standards and we just have no idea why, better call them all back so we don't have a mess on our hands". Nice job taking guesses at what happened with the manufacturer and Apple by the way, that was cute. I don't think I need it. While I don't have access to confidential corporate documents, I am point to every battery recall in recent memory from any OEM being a 'real' recall regardless of the issue. That's a pretty good indicator - do you think Dell does recalls for fun? If they could save money shipping laptops wrapped in used toilet paper they probably would. No where did I say they don't know why the battery wasn't performing, what I said is that it's hard to go from 'this battery is bad' to 'this battery definitely won't leak/pump fire out' You aren't equipped to play on this field with me. At least write your own insults. enMTW fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Feb 20, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 06:22
|
|
|
"This week on 'Aggressive Nerd Masterpiece Theatre'.."
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 06:24
|
|
|
enMTW posted:Maybe Tim sends Eddy Cue to China with orders to assemble batteries by hand out of chunks of old sneakers or something. I'm going to google around to demonstrate something I know to be true to you. So you don't have to do your own research. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJrNCjVS0gk Feenix posted:"This week on 'Aggressive Nerd Masterpiece Theatre'.." "Apple says something!" Sorry.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 06:25
|
|
|
Shin-chan posted:I'm going to google around to demonstrate something I know to be true to you. So you don't have to do your own research. Maybe Apple orders suppliers to do all that stuff, but with their teeth.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 06:32
|
|
|
Feenix posted:"This week on 'Aggressive Nerd Masterpiece Theatre'.."
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 06:47
|
|
|
enMTW posted:Maybe Tim sends Eddy Cue to China with orders to assemble batteries by hand out of chunks of old sneakers or something. Well, it appears you have no understanding about how batteries function/safety precautions for soft cell/lithium-ion batteries. And every single battery recall is a safety recall? Seriously? Because of the chemical nature of batteries, just about any existing battery can technically leak/swell/fire/explode/whatever. It doesn't happen often, but it can. When you add external factors common in mobile devices such as drops and liquid, that risk can increase. Even though I know you aren't going to read it because you're too lazy to look stuff up to support your claims yourself, here's data on legally required testing for battery design, and how incredibly specific it is due to lithium ion battery dangers. http://newscience.ul.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/30/2014/04/Safety_Issues_for_Lithium_Ion_Batteries1.pdf And let's not even get to the part about how to determine if a battery is bad or not, as current consumer electronics batteries are so complicated that there are many factors involved with this. Not a lawyer, and not looking this up cause it feels pretty common sensey, but if there was a legitimate safety issue with the battery, it would likely be a mandatory repair, a la the Toyota gas pedal thing a few years ago. Every person owning one of those cars had to be notified individually. There's no possible way a battery with a safety issue could have a recall limited to two years from date of purchase. With this battery recall, Apple didn't notify a single person who was eligible. They basically said hey put your serial in here and if your phones effected we'll fix it for free, if you want, up to you. Totally voluntary. And shin-chan is right, the term recall would apply to all exiting versions of a product, regardless of if it exhibited symptoms or not, while warranty extension would apply to just failed instances of a product. Basically the exact definition of a warranty. If it's broke, they'll fix it. If it works, they won't. Now let's speak of the video card issue. While things such as the lemon law apply mostly to vehicles, and varies state to state, they do sometimes apply to electronics. But they only really apply for issues exhibited during the warranty period (one year in this case). It's likely there are other laws regarding the sale of known faulty products, but my guess is that would require the manufacturer had knowledge the device would definitely fail while it was still being sold. There is no way that every company that sold something that likely failed after 3 years of use is required by law to resolve it if they didn't know it would fail at time of sale. That's absurd. Concerning failure rate, I've worked on quite a few of these machines, and not every single one with a gpu heavy user has failed. That's an ridiculous claim to make, unless you've personally run tests on multiples in high numbers of that machine. TLDR: enMTW is an idiot who makes wild claims he can't back up that make little sense. Pivo posted:The guy I spoke to at Apple, a senior advisor, called it a capture program. Captures are whole unit only, and exist so Apple can determine specific issues in specific devices. If you only had a part fixed it wasn't a capture. It's likely the terms were confused by the advisor. They are short term, and rarely seen.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 09:09
|
|
|
Kingnothing posted:Well, it appears you have no understanding about how batteries function/safety precautions for soft cell/lithium-ion batteries. And every single battery recall is a safety recall? Seriously? Skimmed that massive wall of retarded text. Nothing you said reflects either reality (your battery comments, notification, this failure suddenly being an issue now and not, you know, briefly after the machine came out) or how Apple does things. Do us all a favor and keep your mouth shut unless you actually have something intelligent to say. Keep in mind that, if you were to say something intelligent, it would be the first time since you registered.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 09:14
|
|
|
gently caress off out of this thread. Nothing productive is coming out of your keyboard.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 09:41
|
|
|
Choadmaster posted:gently caress off out of this thread. Nothing productive is coming out of your keyboard.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 09:53
|
|
|
All I have to say is: yay. 4 days ago my 2011 MBP displayed all the colors of the rainbow before it stopped being able to display anything other than a grey screen. Wasn't very happy that I'd be buying a new laptop so late in the cycle, but I can hold off a bit longer now!
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 14:54
|
|
|
 Holy poo poo guys stop being awful loving fanboysI think enMTW was totally right up until the stupid argument about batteries and the law, and nobody looks like a good poster after that point. Thread in general, try not to take it personally when people get annoyed because Apple fucks up and handles it in their typically lovely way. That's what Apple does, that's what Apple has always done, you're used to it by now so don't get so defensive. I mean poo poo, how many of these exact same recalls have they done for this same issue? I can't even remember how many tech bulletins I personally saw when I was doing warranty repairs. The same thing happens to other manufacturers and you don't see people arguing over whether HP or Dell laptop repair programs are recalls. I'd like to see everyone try not to get drawn into lovely arguments. If you think someone is being a lovely poster, report them and do not reply to them. Definitely don't cheerlead around someone being a lovely poster because you spent the last three hours having an increasingly childish forums slapfight. Just don't have the childish slapfight. Alereon fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Feb 20, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 16:30
|
|
|
Man I wish I would have picked up a couple dirt cheap 'broken' 2011 Pros and just hung on to them for a bit. Where's my time machine when I need one?
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 16:38
|
|
|
Kingnothing posted:Captures are whole unit only, and exist so Apple can determine specific issues in specific devices. If you only had a part fixed it wasn't a capture. It's likely the terms were confused by the advisor. They are short term, and rarely seen. Wouldn't it make sense to just 'capture' the affected part? If I were Apple, I would want to see the defective parts to see all the different failure modes, but I wouldn't want to pay to replace the entire computer, especially since they may not even manufacture the 2011 parts in quantity anymore. Anyhow, Apple's website calls it a "Repair Extension Program" so it's likely the AppleCare advisor misspoke.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 16:38
|
|
|
enMTW posted:Skimmed that massive wall of retarded text. Nothing you said reflects either reality (your battery comments, notification, this failure suddenly being an issue now and not, you know, briefly after the machine came out) or how Apple does things. Being someone who works with Apple as a technician (and I'm pretty sure King Nothing is as well), and who knows how Apple "does things", everything he said was completely on point.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 17:02
|
|
|
Bob Morales posted:Man I wish I would have picked up a couple dirt cheap 'broken' 2011 Pros and just hung on to them for a bit. Where's my time machine when I need one? Still a ton of cheap ones on eBay. empty baggie posted:Being someone who works with Apple as a technician (and I'm pretty sure King Nothing is as well), and who knows how Apple "does things", everything he said was completely on point. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3426201&pagenumber=575#post441807731 enMTW fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Feb 20, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 17:53
|
|
|
People are allowed to disagree with you and tell you you are wrong of course, just not be assholes about it. But I would prefer if we didn't continue any of that argument that got so bad. If anyone really thinks they have anything constructive to add go ahead, I'm not banning a valid topic of discussion.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 18:02
|
|
|
Alereon posted:People are allowed to disagree with you and tell you you are wrong of course, just not be assholes about it. But I would prefer if we didn't continue any of that argument that got so bad. If anyone really thinks they have anything constructive to add go ahead, I'm not banning a valid topic of discussion. Ah, ok. Still stunned by what happened. I had no idea posting a link to a recall/repair program/whatever anyone wants to call it would get so heated.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 18:09
|
|
|
Bob Morales posted:Where's my time machine when I need one? Upper right of your menubar?
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 18:16
|
|
|
Alereon posted:something A new guy joins this forum, immediately gets extremely aggressive and abusive to lots of regular and constructive posters when his arguments are countered, you see this and instead of giving him so much as a six-hour probation, your impulse is to call the people who argued against him "fanboys" in an also expletive-filled post, and we're supposed to regard this as a level-headed resolution of that discussion. It doesn't matter at all what side the guy took or even which possibly legitimate points he had because he went out of line in extreme ways and poisoned the discussion while others remained civil, but you're effectively arguing that his posts are just as good as the ones from those others. +++ About all these situations that Apple handles in their supposedly "typically lovely way": I haven't had this problem in all the years that I've had their products. Things do go wrong, hardware and software have problems, yes. But every single time my Apple stuff had issues, they've handled it in a way which was in line with what I could reasonably expect or, in several cases, even better. This is one reason why I'm sticking with them. Other people may have different experiences, but if customer satisfaction surveys are any indication, they're probably not the majority.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 19:51
|
|
|
Hahahah nobody gives a poo poo if you're new to the forum or a "regular" or whatever. But I've been posting in the Mac thread for years, respect my authority!
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 19:57
|
|
|
Pryor on Fire posted:Hahahah nobody gives a poo poo if you're new to the forum or a "regular" or whatever. But I've been posting in the Mac thread for years, respect my authority! He's well known for being aggressively wrong, so much so that a mod has to come in and tells him to knock it off. Is that enough to make him gently caress off? Nope! The Flavor Story: defending Apple at all costs. Even when MacRumors commenters don't. Even when John Gruber doesn't. He'll do whatever it takes. enMTW fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Feb 20, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 20:12
|
|
|
Apple is like every other company - they will recall/repair as necessary and avoid doing so for as long as possible otherwise, i.e. the GPU failures. And like any company, class action lawsuits or the threat of them where they (internally) know that they are liable will likely scare them into issuing a repair program. Apple does have better customer service than most, but that shouldn't excuse issues such as making customers pay for expensive repairs that only later get covered by a repair program. When they issue a credit or payment back to cover the prior repair costs, then you should praise them. Otherwise they deserve the same criticism as anyone else.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 20:16
|
|
|
SourKraut posted:Apple is like every other company - they will recall/repair as necessary and avoid doing so for as long as possible otherwise, i.e. the GPU failures. And like any company, class action lawsuits or the threat of them where they (internally) know that they are liable will likely scare them into issuing a repair program. They actually are issuing refunds to cover the repair cost, but at this point - 3 years later - they should be paying loving interest.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 20:18
|
|
|
Are we doing this again mere hours after we were told not to? Should I go back to bragging about my 5k?! Cuz I can! 
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 20:19
|
|
|
Feenix posted:Are we doing this again mere hours after we were told not to? Should I go back to bragging about my 5k?! Cuz I can! Mine arrived today!
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 20:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 02:16 |
|
|
SourKraut posted:Apple is like every other company - they will recall/repair as necessary and avoid doing so for as long as possible otherwise, i.e. the GPU failures. And like any company, class action lawsuits or the threat of them where they (internally) know that they are liable will likely scare them into issuing a repair program. I agree with most of what you say. It was about the way some people continue to "support" their arguments.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2015 20:21
|
|