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UK folks, the Eisenhorn omnibus is £1.99 on Kindle today if you’re sufficiently heretical that you haven’t read it already.
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Jul 27, 2019 10:17
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Guyver posted:They should make them re-evolved Krorks that are coming out of the Tyranid fight for a war against the Necrons. I think that is almost what they're implying is happening in this case. Managed to find the entry and its from the Deathwatch Codex in this case: 
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Jul 27, 2019 14:27
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peanut- posted:UK folks, the Eisenhorn omnibus is £1.99 on Kindle today if you’re sufficiently heretical that you haven’t read it already. Holy poo poo, thankyou for this. I already have the full omnibus paperback (including short stories), but for that price I've just grabbed it again so I have it to hand on kindle
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Jul 27, 2019 15:31
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serios q do space marines poop? and if so whose space marine poop do u think smells worse, space wolves or death guard v important
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Jul 27, 2019 19:43
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There's probably an organ that chemically neutralizes the poop so that they can't be tracked.
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Jul 27, 2019 19:46
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im pooping! posted:serios q
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Jul 27, 2019 19:58
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Looks like Celestine release date got bumped up. It went on pre-order today for release next Saturday. I thought it wasn't scheduled for another couple of months. Just finished The Lost and The Damned. Guy Haley did a great job of portraying the horror of what is being unleashed on Terra. The viewpoint character who was conscripted and sent out to hold the line beyond the walls was great. There were way more chapters/viewpoints of the primarchs on both sides than I expected, especially the loyalists. I thought they were done really well compared to a lot of what we have seen lately in regard to primarchs. I also really liked the view into the strategy from both sides. It was very obvious a lot of thought went into how the attack and defense would be planned and executed in a situation were both sides had the technology and troops they did. They definitely wargamed it out in their Siege of Terra authors meetings. Finally, there are some extremely interesting bits of lore scattered throughout. Some things we didn't know as well as confirmation of things we thought were possibilities. There is a particularly powerful scene where Dorn calls together the high lords and Malcador as a courtesy. The twelve had been sidelined as the three loyalist primarchs were given complete control and had not even met in months. It is a courtesy from Dorn as he believes they need to know just how desperate the situation is because they do still have much power in their respective areas. The conversation that takes place where Dorn lays out just how bad it is in a very straightforward way that is delivered with Dorn's absolute pragmatism of the sacrifices necessary chilled me to the bones. It was the first time I really was awed in the same way I was when I first read Horus Rising and truly understood the majesty of the Great Crusade. It's then immediately followed by a very well written confrontation with Jaghatai as he rejects Dorn's pragmatic strategy requiring the sacrifice of billions. Which is immediately followed by a similar confrontation on the Vengeful Spirit. Those few chapters were epic in the extreme and is exactly why I love the scale of 40k. I highly recommend this book. I enjoyed The Solar War, but I found this one even better. So far GW is delivering the appropriate epicness and scale required for the telling of the final confrontation.
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Jul 27, 2019 22:47
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D-Pad posted:Looks like Celestine release date got bumped up. It went on pre-order today for release next Saturday. I thought it wasn't scheduled for another couple of months. Sounds really good. Did you buy it for 120 pounds or is out for us plebs also?
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Jul 28, 2019 00:09
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It says it isn’t out until october and I can’t accept that. Give it to me
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Jul 28, 2019 00:26
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Miguel Prado posted:Sounds really good. Did you buy it for 120 pounds or is out for us plebs also? No and no. I'll buy a copy when it drops so I don't feel bad. I kind of wish I had bought collector's edition for both books and eventually the entire series but it would be stupid expensive.
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Jul 28, 2019 03:48
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D-Pad posted:No and no. I'll buy a copy when it drops so I don't feel bad. I kind of wish I had bought collector's edition for both books and eventually the entire series but it would be stupid expensive. Do those books retain or increase in value over time? I love me these books as much as the next goon, but those expensive collectors edition stuff has always raised my eyebrow a little bit.
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Jul 28, 2019 05:01
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im pooping! posted:serios q They did canonicaly, until Ian Watson's Space Marine was reprinted with a disclaimer that it no longer 100% fits into 40k as it exists today. Wolves' poop would not smell, based on the description in the book. Death Guard probably would, because that's their whole gimmick.
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Jul 28, 2019 14:29
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The Ultramarines own a lot of planets that are very prosperous: agri-worlds, forge worlds, etc. They must get a lot of tax revenue. Meanwhile, the Space Wolves own one worthless ice-ball. Doesn't this make a difference to their capabilities? How do the Space Wolves buy all their gear? The Fang is supposed to be the second-strongest fortress in the Imperium - how do they pay for its upkeep?
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Jul 29, 2019 13:57
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"Give us equipment or we will take it from your forgeworlds". Hey, they are Space Vikings. Alternatively, the Imperium pays for the upkeep. The Space Wolves have acted in battlefields all over the Imperium and beyond, so it makes sense that they would be covered by the Imperium at large.
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Jul 29, 2019 14:02
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Kurzon posted:The Ultramarines own a lot of planets that are very prosperous: agri-worlds, forge worlds, etc. They must get a lot of tax revenue. Meanwhile, the Space Wolves own one worthless ice-ball. Doesn't this make a difference to their capabilities? How do the Space Wolves buy all their gear? The Fang is supposed to be the second-strongest fortress in the Imperium - how do they pay for its upkeep? First founding legions have access to more tithes world's usually, the space wolves have the whole fenris system and probably a forgeworld somewhere to supply them. They can only recruit from fenris because their geneseed is hosed up but they have greater holdings. Emperor's gift went into it a little when they were pretty much openly fighting the Inquisition.
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Jul 29, 2019 14:03
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The best thing about servitude is that you don't have to pay your chapter serfs and they are actually grateful to serve you. Astartes serfdom is basically an improved version of slavery.
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Jul 29, 2019 14:04
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Randalor posted:"Give us equipment or we will take it from your forgeworlds". Hey, they are Space Vikings.
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Jul 29, 2019 14:21
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Angry Lobster posted:The best thing about servitude is that you don't have to pay your chapter serfs and they are actually grateful to serve you. Astartes serfdom is basically an improved version of slavery. “Improved” I’m reading Dark Imperium right now and the most lawful good thing that G-Man has done is to institute a system of manpower recovery since apparently all this time the imperium just executes servants who aren’t good enough instead of using them for something else. Oh your entire line going back 200 generations wrote on vellum for the archives but your handwriting is kind of poor, bullet to the brain.
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Jul 29, 2019 15:09
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Kurzon posted:Wouldn't either of these approaches have massive consequences for the Space Wolves? If the Space Wolves engage in extortion, pillage, and piracy, they'd be hated by a lot of Imperial worlds. Alternatively, if they depend on the Imperium for income, then they would heavily burdened by obligations. Meanwhile the Ultramarines are financially independent, which hypothetically should give them more leeway to reject requests for intervention that are inconvenient. It's strange that the Space Wolves are supposed to be the anti-authoritarian chapter, because it's not easy to defy authority when you are dependent on said authority's goodwill for your prosperity. The Space Wolves would have to prioritize jobs that will bring them revenue, which means they might have to ignore whatever is "best for humanity" in favor of what is best for the chapter's bottom line. 40k doesn't really follow the rules of international business. It's more like the imperium is one gigantic dictatorship with resources allocated to wherever they're needed and a first founding chapter would be high priority. Admittedly, the more fractured 40k style chapters probably have to struggle to get their share and jostle for glory, but nobody wants to be the civil servant who refuses to sign off a shipment of chew toys for the goddam Space Wolves. It was actually something Horus exploited in the Heresy. I can't remember which book it was in (I think it was the Corax one), but he weakened the loyalist legions long before openly declaring war by pushing loyalist legions further out into the crusade from their supply lines, syphoning off their resources for "priority" and sending newer hardware (stronger bolter ammo, better armour) to the traitor legions. The chapters fighting at the drop site massacre knew they were out resourced but assumed the reinforcements were coming so they could pull off the victory. Obviously this didn't have the same effect on the smurfs as GMan is the master of logistics and his legion had (possibly) absorbed two others, but it seriously hurt legions like the Raven Guard and Salamanders Dog_Meat fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Jul 29, 2019 |
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Jul 29, 2019 15:29
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drat I read Imperial Glory and it was... not good. Or rather, the back third was a disaster.
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Jul 29, 2019 16:39
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There’s a 40k mod for Stellaris that, although it’s a barely playable mess, really showcases the unbelievably complex clusterfuck the imperium is.
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Jul 29, 2019 16:45
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They loaded the capitalists onto ships and exiled them to the fringes of the universe. It came with the title Rogue Trader so they'd be happy about it.
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Jul 29, 2019 16:51
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Dog_Meat posted:It's more like the imperium is one gigantic dictatorship with resources allocated to wherever they're needed and a first founding chapter would be high priority.
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Jul 29, 2019 16:58
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Kurzon posted:I've also heard that the Imperium is a feudal system, and under a feudal system, the king did not subsidize impoverished fiefdoms. Local lords were expected to pay for their own soldiers and armaments. The Imperium before the great rift was basically Dune’s Galactic Padishah Empire, but instead of an active emperor like in Dune the 40k Imperium was governed by basically a privy council. Both governments used nobles to administrate their worlds and navigators/spacing guilds to guide their ships
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Jul 29, 2019 17:51
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Kurzon posted:I've also heard that the Imperium is a feudal system, and under a feudal system, the king did not subsidize impoverished fiefdoms. Local lords were expected to pay for their own soldiers and armaments. Actually, you're probably right. Given the pants-shittingly vast scale of the Imperium it's going to be a multi-multi-multi-layered beaurocratic nightmare of jurstiction. Short version is, as long as tithes are going to the core they don't care if you're an organised star system of soldiers, a solar system of farmers or a barely functioning fuedal system of steampunk hive gangs with a revolving door of leaders. Just make sure you have warm bodies for the guard, planets to strip of resources and don't let your cults open a rift or some poo poo. Basically, in 40k you do NOT want to get noticed by head office and 'restructured' Going back to the Wolves thing, they're going to have a huge influence on nearby systems and entire infrastructures dedicated to supplying them and the imperium. Back when they were still finding primarchs, the first thing the Imperium did was drop in and "improve" whatever was needed. Some cases like Dorn and GMan were already running when they were found. Others like Kurze were a bit hosed up but functioning but left alone because their worlds were compliant and provided what was needed. Plus being a primarch world would mean they had SOME leeway over the Imperium bulldozers stripping all resources. Russ would have said "yeah, gently caress off - I'm keeping Fenris as it is". And if I remember Fallen Angels correctly, the Emperor turns up just as Johnson has eliminated the beast threat but hasn't established an empire yet so the Imperium drop in with the standard template (which is part of what pisses Luthor off so much). Primarchs got to run their systems how they see fit (apart from Angron  ) whereas anyone else has to make sure they maintain tithes and control.Dog_Meat fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Jul 29, 2019 |
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Jul 29, 2019 18:04
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I just finished Pariah. What a wild ride. Ups, downs! Twists, turns! Creepy puppetmaster! suprise Alpha Legionaries It was also good to see Eisenhorn's continued progression into arch-heretic. Not just consorting with daemons and practicing sorcery, now he's moved on to using his infernal powers to straight up beat a Word Bearer in melee combat, and is also working with a Traitor Legion. ===== About the Space Marines based on Feral or Deathworlds. IIRC the Space Wolves have a pact with a navigator house, they provide marine bodyguards and get first dibs on skilled navigators from that house. Presumably chapters that aren't self sufficient have similar deals with Forgeworlds to get raw materials or supplies they can't manufacture themselves.
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Jul 29, 2019 18:48
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Galvanik posted:is also working with a Traitor Legion. No, it’s Alpha Legion, though?
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Jul 29, 2019 18:52
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Galvanik posted:About the Space Marines based on Feral or Deathworlds. IIRC the Space Wolves have a pact with a navigator house, they provide marine bodyguards and get first dibs on skilled navigators from that house. Presumably chapters that aren't self sufficient have similar deals with Forgeworlds to get raw materials or supplies they can't manufacture themselves. It's something the books don't consider enough. Yeah, courage and ferocity and faith are nice and all, but the blood and sinews of war is money. So many empires have lost wars not for massive casualties or lack of zeal but simply because they ran out of money.
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Jul 29, 2019 20:40
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Galvanik posted:I just finished Pariah. What a wild ride. Ups, downs! Twists, turns! Creepy puppetmaster! suprise Alpha Legionaries Alleged Traitor Legion.
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Jul 29, 2019 20:51
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Kurzon posted:Yeah, you and others listed ways in which the Space Wolves could earn some money or reward, but in my question I compared the Space Wolves to the Ultramarines. The Ultramarines have their own little empire within the Imperium. They get revenue from their worlds in addition to whatever they earn from doing jobs for the rest of the Imperium. The Space Wolves, by contrast, can only get revenue from doing jobs for outsiders. Yet I don't see much difference in how the Space Wolves and Ultramarines operate. The Space Wolves seem just as well-equipped as the Ultramarines and always seem ready to answer any call for help. The books mention some "pacts" they have with other Imperial organizations, but these pacts never seem particularly burdensome. I've yet to come across a piece of lore where the Space Wolves refused to intervene in a war because felt they wouldn't get compensated enough for their efforts. The Ultramarines are the big exception on that matter, no other chapter has such a big and powerful domain. Roboute talks about this in Dark Imperium, and yet he wants to reunite Greater Ultramar once more under direct Ultramarine (and successors) stewardship.
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Jul 29, 2019 22:52
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Dog_Meat posted:It was actually something Horus exploited in the Heresy. I can't remember which book it was in (I think it was the Corax one), but he weakened the loyalist legions long before openly declaring war by pushing loyalist legions further out into the crusade from their supply lines, syphoning off their resources for "priority" and sending newer hardware (stronger bolter ammo, better armour) to the traitor legions. The chapters fighting at the drop site massacre knew they were out resourced but assumed the reinforcements were coming so they could pull off the victory. It gets brought up in Mechanicum, although it's never outright confirmed by anybody in a "Ah you've discovered my secret plan!" way. Kurzon posted:It's something the books don't consider enough. Yeah, courage and ferocity and faith are nice and all, but the blood and sinews of war is money. So many empires have lost wars not for massive casualties or lack of zeal but simply because they ran out of money. The Imperial war machine has no actual monetary outlay though. Service is compulsory and there aren't defense contractors who need to be paid to provide for them. The Space Wolves aren't gonna refuse to deploy because their last paycheck bounced, especially since they've never even gotten a paycheck to begin with. Inspector_666 fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Jul 29, 2019 |
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Jul 29, 2019 23:02
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Kurzon posted:So many empires have lost wars not for massive casualties or lack of zeal but simply because they ran out of money. The Imperium can't run out of money. It doesn't run on money, it's a command economy that has been on a war footing for 10000+ years. Capitalism isn't real and it's doubly unreal in the far future where it's only war.
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Jul 29, 2019 23:10
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40k is the logical endpoint of fully automatic gay space communism holy poo poo Double sign me up.
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Jul 30, 2019 01:52
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Inspector_666 posted:It gets brought up in Mechanicum, although it's never outright confirmed by anybody in a "Ah you've discovered my secret plan!" way. Not to mention that there is a galaxy-wide batshit religion where 90% of humans genuinely believe they are serving a god and everything they do is for Him. The guy who replaces half of his body so he can plug into a chair and run calculations all day believes he is doing it for Him. The gaunt accountant who lives in a 2m cube and works 20 hours in a cathedral sized open office punching in numbers while hymns play over the tannoy, the factory worker coughing up industrial filth working in conditions that would shame a concentration camp, the farmboy being dropped to a planet full of orks with nothing but a flashlight.... they all genuinely believe they're blessed to be serving. The Ultramarines are the same, but more through conditioning to worship strength, honour, duty, etc.
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Jul 30, 2019 07:37
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None of the factions are capitalists. Even Rogue Traders use an abstract system where you're just trying to make Number go up without at any point worrying about what Number is. Roll under Number and now you've got an entire mercenary company that lives on your enormous ship.
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Jul 30, 2019 11:13
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There must be money in there somewhere because Macharius complains about the war profiteers and grifters causing him supply problems and then conspiring against him when he tries to cut them out of the supply chain.
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Jul 30, 2019 15:41
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Of course there's money and merchants everywhere. There's a civilian economy running in most parts of the galaxy, despite the fact that the Imperium can run a full war economy and requisiton whatever it's necessary by force.
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Jul 30, 2019 15:52
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Theoretically the Adeptus Administratum has bean counters but one hundred percent of the time they're actually assassin cults/genestealers/chaos cultists or dupes working for same. You get the occasional person who stays out of office politics and does their job who everyone is too afraid to murder because without them Billy the three-armed accountant has to stop praising the Gene Father and figure out what the forms are for requisitioning an enormous drill.
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Jul 30, 2019 15:54
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I'm the Cave Johnson-type promoting the Nemesis Dreadknight to a group of stone-faced Astartes who break into thunderous applause.
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Jul 30, 2019 17:39
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Well, I wasn't really thinking about money per se, but rather resources and trade. Money just a tool that facilitate the exchange of goods and services. If the Imperium provides resources to the Space Wolves, the Imperium will want something in exchange. Since Fenris doesn't have any export goods to speak of, the only thing that the Space Wolves can give is their service, and they probably have to provide a lot more service than the Ultramarines. Since the Ultramarines are independently wealthy, they can afford to occassionally refuse jobs. At least that's what makes sense to me.
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Jul 30, 2019 20:22
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