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Ursine Catastrophe posted:Honestly, that should concern you more than a lot of the other things, because that's not "just server synchronization". In any sort of online game that's sane, and especially one where low latency is important, the loop is usually "client sends command requests to server -> server combines it with the other command requests -> server tells the client what they should display to the user". Having an ad-hoc offline mode hack work just fine implies that it's either peer-to-peer lockstep or client authoritative I imagine that it's not client authoritative or anything, any more than typical Cryengine (which is admittedly bad about that). It's just using whatever is in Arena Commander's offline mode to set up a local server and run off of that. Which really suggests that it's not very far removed from Arena Commander at all, and the boundaries in that mode are more artificially imposed now than anything else. But I'm just amazed that all the script triggers and things just... work. Apparently AC's offline mode is capable of handling all that as well. It does give me hope that people will be able to run private servers some day- that was another promise they made, at one point. But it makes me wonder what the hell's going on with the net code that causes it to get so unstable. This guy's been playing for an hour and a half crash-free. Online, you can't go five minutes. It'll be a shame if things fold after this release. In offline mode it's pretty clear that this is an empty but stable platform on which a really cool and atmospheric game could someday be built. From here I imagine that content production might actually go pretty quick- though there are a huge number of mechanics that need to get implemented.
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Nov 28, 2015 13:04
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I was going to buy the starter package but they're out of stock. What??
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Nov 28, 2015 13:06
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Stealth Like posted:No I don't. Should I join to become an auditor? If you're a SC fan, auditing is the perfect career for you! You won't have any free time to play actual games, so a pseudo-game that just siphons your money without any actual gameplay is ideal.
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Nov 28, 2015 13:06
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LastCaress posted:I was going to buy the starter package but they're out of stock. What?? What? You wanted to pay LESS for the creative genius of Chris Roberts - Space Developer?
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Nov 28, 2015 13:09
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https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3uknz0/spoiler_the_beginning_of_squadron_42_and/ Apparently there's a bit more of S42 already done, according to some article from a random site. Makes them not showing any of it to PCGamer for the big sale release even more inexplicable. I swear it's like nobody there has any idea what they're doing when it comes to PR. Oh wait: A redditor posted:Well, the author said he couldn't play or see any mission footage and because of that he guesses it will still take much time. He wouldn't be surprised by a delay to 2017. All of the info was gathered from talking to Chris and Erin. Sarsapariller fucked around with this message at 13:16 on Nov 28, 2015 |
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Nov 28, 2015 13:13
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Sarsapariller posted:https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3uknz0/spoiler_the_beginning_of_squadron_42_and/ Has anyone brought up how Sandi hasn't changed her last name to Roberts? I need something to eat popcorn to.
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Nov 28, 2015 13:21
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Has anyone brought up how Sandi hasn't changed her last name to Roberts? I need something to eat popcorn to. Its not especially noteworthy. Plenty of actresses keep their maiden name.
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Nov 28, 2015 13:33
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOC8-PhYn5s
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Nov 28, 2015 13:34
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:Honestly, that should concern you more than a lot of the other things, because that's not "just server synchronization". In any sort of online game that's sane, and especially one where low latency is important, the loop is usually "client sends command requests to server -> server combines it with the other command requests -> server tells the client what they should display to the user". Having an ad-hoc offline mode hack work just fine implies that it's either peer-to-peer lockstep or client authoritative It's because Star Citizen is going to be a single player game with drop-in drop-out co-op (since that's what Squadron 42 will be). Basically a Freelancer server. Oh sure they've advertised it as a MMO (will "MMO qualities" or whatever bullshit weasel word CR used), but they've said plenty of things that weren't true. What's one more? Backers also seem to think that, somehow, SC will magically auto-partition each and every instance into discrete chunks that will be able to handle the capacity of a given group and yet seamlessly integrate with every other instance around them. Sarsapariller posted:https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3uknz0/spoiler_the_beginning_of_squadron_42_and/ That entire thread is a case study in self-delusion and confirmation bias. Look at how people respond when they hear that the entire game of Squadron 42 will take place in a single system. Beer4TheBeerGod fucked around with this message at 13:39 on Nov 28, 2015 |
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Nov 28, 2015 13:36
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Fil5000 posted:Its not especially noteworthy. Plenty of actresses keep their maiden name. As a devout Christian, it offends me that she doesn't.
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Nov 28, 2015 13:38
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Sarsapariller posted:But it makes me wonder what the hell's going on with the net code that causes it to get so unstable. My guess, on thinking about it, is that it's p2p; I'd be very interested in both 1. "What you look like on other people's screens vs. what you're doing on yours" and 2. "How long it is before people start spawning ships in their client that they don't actually own". Odds are good, though, that the unoptimized net code being sent from your machine to everyone else in the in-game area means that everything just goes to poo poo exponentially faster every time one new person joins until everything just violently shits itself.
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Nov 28, 2015 13:50
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:It's because Star Citizen is going to be a single player game with drop-in drop-out co-op (since that's what Squadron 42 will be). Basically a Freelancer server. Oh sure they've advertised it as a MMO (will "MMO qualities" or whatever bullshit weasel word CR used), but they've said plenty of things that weren't true. What's one more? Yeah, this is a huge thing that lots of people are missing when they talk about Star Citizen. It is not an MMO. They've never said it will be an MMO, they've not designed it as an MMO. One thing they have compared it to is a game like Battlefield, and the comparison is apt. In Battlefield you sit in the menu, choose the map that you want to play on and you're transported there to fight on that map with a bunch of other players and/or NPCs. When you complete the match, your character is awarded experience which allows you to unlock various upgrades that you can use in future matches. These upgrades persist on your character permanently. SC is basically the same game, but in space. Replace the menu with a space station that you interact with in first person. Your match selection screen is replaced with pointing your chosen space ship at a map and pressing the "warp" button. You gain exp and/or currency during those battles and those gains persist on your account and can be used to unlock upgrades and new ships. And there's your game. An elaborate lobby system providing access to a number of instanced "levels" that you can play in. Single player will be the same only those levels are run locally, with some p2p solution for co-op if that is supported. People like to compare SC to EVE or E:D, but that's just because those games are also set in space. A better comparison is Battlefield, but despite attempts by the developers to make this link it has real trouble sticking in the minds of fans of the game.
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Nov 28, 2015 13:50
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Chalks posted:Yeah, this is a huge thing that lots of people are missing when they talk about Star Citizen. It is not an MMO. They've never said it will be an MMO, they've not designed it as an MMO. Ah well in that case their Reddit cheerleading squad is in for a surprise  Also Chalks posted:People like to compare SC to EVE or E:D This is actually sounding more like E:D's "incidental multiplayer" style, to be honest; you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone calling E:D a real MMO without doing some really fun definition contortions.
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Nov 28, 2015 13:53
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Sarsapariller posted:Alright it's been a couple of days since the last set, and no significant patches have occurred except for some minor thing that reportedly solved another crash bug but not the crash bug, but then they rolled it out to 50k people, so that has probably made poo poo a lot worse. I'm going to make one more attempt at completing my self imposed goal: to acquire, and then complete, one in-game mission. You sir, continue to be awesome. Bringing a great balance between reality and us piss-taking Goons who don't care anymore if the game is good, bad, ugly or ever comes out.
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Nov 28, 2015 14:00
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Are the people funding Star Citizen the ones who really liked sitting on the station couch in EVE? It seems like CCP had the idea for the BDSSE but then they released Incarna and everyone hated it
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Nov 28, 2015 14:00
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Sarsapariller posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6LQ_FTNJf8 LMAO!! OMG! That was awesome!
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Nov 28, 2015 14:02
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:This is actually sounding more like E:D's "incidental multiplayer" style, to be honest; you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone calling E:D a real MMO without doing some really fun definition contortions. Although it's similar, E:D does have real universe persistence - player actions can modify the "influence" of the factions in the game in a permanent way that affects everyone. Goons in E:D have ensured that the "Diamond Frogs" faction has control of at least one system through their efforts. No such persistence is planned for SC, nor would it be possible with multiple simultaneous instances of their 100 maps being played at the same time. When you enter a map, either the "match" will be already in progress, or you'll be seeing a brand new copy of the system getting spun up just for you because all existing ones are full, but not matter what someone else will be experiencing the same location in a different way. Neither is "real" any more than blue team or red team winning in a battlefield map. E:D basically has an on/off switch for whether you encounter other players, but if it's "on" and you know I'm in 63.G Capricorni, you can fly there and you'll find me. This isn't the case with SC, because you will end up in a randomly selected instance of the map rather than a specific "location" in the game world. Chalks fucked around with this message at 14:09 on Nov 28, 2015 |
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Nov 28, 2015 14:03
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janssendalt posted:last I heard was that Derek's wife was taking Hebrew lessons paid with Bootcha's investment No she wasn't. It was French. She already completed her Hebrew lessons and already has certificate and everything. Unlike Sandi.
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Nov 28, 2015 14:03
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What will produce depth?quote:First person universe. You are not a ship, or a floating gun. You are a person who lives and interacts in this world.
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Nov 28, 2015 14:06
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If anyone wonders what happens if you don't manage expectations this game is going to be a real good example.
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Nov 28, 2015 14:07
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The correct answer is "the z axis"
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Nov 28, 2015 14:08
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Octopode posted:No. I work here. I manage operations for this and integration for this, while making sure that their stuff keeps working in here. you are the janitor right
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Nov 28, 2015 14:08
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sorry, "Mr. Executive Janitor"
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Nov 28, 2015 14:08
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Recoome posted:you are the janitor right If he told you, he'd have to kill you with his mop.
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Nov 28, 2015 14:09
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Chalks posted:Yeah, this is a huge thing that lots of people are missing when they talk about Star Citizen. It is not an MMO. They've never said it will be an MMO, they've not designed it as an MMO. This sounds absolutely amazing and ground breaking. When does it come out? Also, I'm not interested unless it's actually a pyramid scheme. P.S. do you think anyone will ever make games again or will this literally be the only game ever needed?
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Nov 28, 2015 14:09
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Sarsapariller posted:But it makes me wonder what the hell's going on with the net code that causes it to get so unstable. This guy's been playing for an hour and a half crash-free. Online, you can't go five minutes. On a serious note, and prefaced with the understanding that I don't have experience with Cryengine directly, just UE4, and I've not bothered to look at what the crashes actually are at all from SC... It depends entirely on the model used internally to handle all of this poo poo, but in UE it's all RPC calls. The engine itself enforces some level of authority over what can invoke a replicated method call, based on what the engine determines has "authority" over a given entity. Like, the object representing your gun can't directly call the method on another players character that causes them to take damage, because whilst your client has authority over your gun, it doesn't have it over the other character; only the host has authority over everything, so you've gotta run some roundabout stuff to make things happen appropriately. poo poo will compile all fine if you try to code it like that, and it'll look like it works if you just do a naive test (start two clients from the editor, shoot the other character with the primary client, "Yep, looks good."). In UE town, authority issues like that will just crash the client doing it immediately. This gets compounded with certain replicated data types and usage; a good example off the top of my head I've run into is dealing with poo poo like weapon lists and rendering said list in the UI, mostly because of thread shenanigans and when the engine decides to actually update replicated values. I imagine there are a lot of parallels to that going on inside SC what with the moving between physics grids and attaching things to other things for localised movement; something with authority over both elements would have to execute that attachment.
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Nov 28, 2015 14:11
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Seems like the makers of Cards Against Humanity have got in on Crobber's funding model... https://www.facebook.com/CardsAgainstHumanity/posts/10156224309475696
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Nov 28, 2015 14:11
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In "Kickstarter Games That Are Actually Making Progress" new, Descent: Underground is on sale for $10. I just picked it up and will let you guys know what I think.Chalks posted:Yeah, this is a huge thing that lots of people are missing when they talk about Star Citizen. It is not an MMO. They've never said it will be an MMO, they've not designed it as an MMO. No, it's been marketed as a MMO. It's been designed as one. At the original PAX East Bootcha hooked some of us goons up with a chance to drink with Eric Peterson and Erin Roberts, and I flat out asked Eric if SC was a MMO. He said yes. On top of that if you go the loving page about the loving game if flat out says as such: quote:More than a space combat sim, more than a first person shooter and more than an MMO: Star Citizen is the First Person Universe that will allow for unlimited gameplay. Space Combat Sim. First Person Shooter. MMO. That's what Star Citizen is. In fact it's MORE than those three things if you believe CIG. It's definitely not loving Battlefield. You do not gain loving experience. Star Citizen is the stain left on the mattress after Privateer, Mass Effect, and EVE had a three-way.
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Nov 28, 2015 14:15
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Toops posted:This sounds absolutely amazing and ground breaking. When does it come out? Also, I'm not interested unless it's actually a pyramid scheme. OK so credit to CIG, they have done something that's ground breaking, and not in the ironic "ripped off more nerds than any other game" way either: Localized physics grids with seamless transitions from flying a space ship to FPS. That poo poo's new and hasn't been done before. That said, my god have some people taken the "Space game with a ground breaking feature" idea and loving run with it. The point at which the realisation dawns on reddit that SC is in fact going to be a video game set in space and not an all encompassing life-replacement simulation is going to be pretty amazing to watch. gently caress 10 hours of cut scenes, the real drama is going to happen when people realise SC is a video game with video game mechanics and video game depth. A video game that people play for a bit then get bored of and play something else in the endless cycle of steam sales. A video game that, more importantly than anything else, will never be worth more than $50.
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Nov 28, 2015 14:20
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Chalks posted:Although it's similar, E:D does have real universe persistence - player actions can modify the "influence" of the factions in the game in a permanent way that affects everyone. Goons in E:D have ensured that the "Diamond Frogs" faction has control of at least one system through their efforts. No such persistence is planned for SC, nor would it be possible with multiple simultaneous instances of their 100 maps being played at the same time. When you enter a map, either the "match" will be already in progress, or you'll be seeing a brand new copy of the system getting spun up just for you because all existing ones are full, but not matter what someone else will be experiencing the same location in a different way. Neither is "real" any more than blue team or red team winning in a battlefield map. Then what the hell is the "persistent universe" supposed to be? Like, serious question, because I'm going off of the frantic emissions of the SC faithful and their dreams of what this game is going to be, which has sounded like "Second Life but with spaceships" to this point. Chalks posted:E:D basically has an on/off switch for whether you encounter other players, but if it's "on" and you know I'm in 63.G Capricorni, you can fly there and you'll find me. This isn't the case with SC, because you will end up in a randomly selected instance of the map rather than a specific "location" in the game world. That's the theory, but in practice it's a lot sketchier. Hell, you can already be in a wing with someone else, drop into the station they're at and still not find them, let alone relying on "we're both in open, it should be fine". I mean hell, just look at the fuel rat's how-to guide with all of the hoops you have to jump through to ensure you end up in the same instance. (But I digress.)
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Nov 28, 2015 14:21
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Sarsapariller posted:http://www.twitch.tv/matticusgames It's because the client doesn't send any instructions (position data etc) to a server. A lot of games (even my multiplayer games) have off-line mode because that's how the game is first built, with multiplayer "hooks" which later go full bore at some point when the server is ready. In a client-server architecture, the client hosts all the game data. The server is just there as the arbiter running in a console session. Very few games have servers that run the full game world with graphics and everything. In fact, that's how peer-to-peer games (mostly on consoles) work whereby one player running the full game, is the server host. In client-server games, crashes take this form: - client crashes. local. nothing to do with server - server crashes. remote (to client). nothing to do with client - client crashes. local & remote, due to server doing something lovely - server crashes. local (to server), due to client doing something lovely (e.g. sending bad, malformed packets etc) And it's not just crashes. Usually you see all kinds of weird poo poo on the client side that don't cause a crash but which are due to the client and server generally being dicks. e.g. those movies of a pilot in a seating position, still moving around as if walking? That's all on the client. The server doesn't know that the fool is no longer seating in a craft but is walking around. So that packet telling the server what the client was doing, somehow got lost/dropped and the server just carried on as if everything is fine. It simply doesn't know better. It's similar to how clientA and clientB are playing. ClientA shoots ClientB. Server sees something different and ClientB is still alive running around, though ClientA clearly saw the kill, ClientB drop dead etc. Then ClientB - who is supposed to be dead - gets to kill ClientA. Rage ensues. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Client%E2%80%93server_model Ursine Catastrophe posted:Honestly, that should concern you more than a lot of the other things, because that's not "just server synchronization". In any sort of online game that's sane, and especially one where low latency is important, the loop is usually "client sends command requests to server -> server combines it with the other command requests -> server tells the client what they should display to the user". Having an ad-hoc offline mode hack work just fine implies that it's either peer-to-peer lockstep or client authoritative Absolutely correct. However, from my observation I believe that Star Citizen server is running a hybrid of both a client-server and server-authoritative model. Big trouble. They'd have to re-write it at some point if they ever hope to have a seamless game world. Heck with 50K people, it's not holding together. And that's not even with more than 16 people in an instance. D_Smart fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Nov 28, 2015 |
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Nov 28, 2015 14:21
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:In "Kickstarter Games That Are Actually Making Progress" new, Descent: Underground is on sale for $10. I just picked it up and will let you guys know what I think. not that kind of stain but this kind of stain --> 
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Nov 28, 2015 14:24
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Chalks posted:OK so credit to CIG, they have done something that's ground breaking, and not in the ironic "ripped off more nerds than any other game" way either: Localized physics grids with seamless transitions from flying a space ship to FPS. That poo poo's new and hasn't been done before. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precursors_(video_game) Ground breaking, 6 years ago. Edit: Gameplay video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWzC9R4UBpc Jobbo_Fett fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Nov 28, 2015 |
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Nov 28, 2015 14:25
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:In "Kickstarter Games That Are Actually Making Progress" new, Descent: Underground is on sale for $10. I just picked it up and will let you guys know what I think. Interesting to read that after reading this article: http://massivelyop.com/2015/10/21/ascents-lead-dev-offers-insight-on-the-star-citizen-controversy/ I mean gently caress there's no way this game is an MMO - not in it's current state, not with their stated instancing tech and not without character development via exp or some other mechanic. It's all so poorly described with conflicting statements everywhere that I guess I'm giving CIG too much credit to have consistently described what the game will eventually be. Fact is, if 2.0 is representative of SC's final form then it'll be battlefield in space. If 2.0 is a bunch of random tech shoved together with ducttape in order to create the illusion of progress, the maybe they'll fart out an MMO at some point - but if that's the reality then I need to re-adjust my opinion of the game back to "it's going to be a complete failure and never come out". Ursine Catastrophe posted:Then what the hell is the "persistent universe" supposed to be? Like, serious question, because I'm going off of the frantic emissions of the SC faithful and their dreams of what this game is going to be, which has sounded like "Second Life but with spaceships" to this point. I don't know but I imagine they're going to stretch "persistent currency on character accounts" to "persistent universe" pretty easily. I mean what else could possibly persist when they spin up a fresh instance of an entire star system when ever they need to? System and station ownership is not a thing from what I've seen, and it would be pretty difficult to implement when you've only included 100 distinct stars in the entire game. Chalks fucked around with this message at 14:28 on Nov 28, 2015 |
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Nov 28, 2015 14:26
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Chalks posted:Interesting to read that after reading this article: Chill, have some patience, it's alpha
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Nov 28, 2015 14:28
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MrBadidea posted:You've used words that are implying CIG are considering the long term impact of their design decisions here, and are not just making GBS threads out the fastest, shittiest implementation they can in the name of "showing progress". I personally believe that the engineers are building a game. The problem is that they are building a game which - I still maintain - cannot be built as pitched. They're doing their best to make Chris's lofty dreams come true and I firmly believe that they will fail. The flip side is why the biz heads are trying so hard to keep making money because they know - for a fact - that on the off chance that it can be built (don't be silly, it can't), it would require more time, which equals more money. Remember that SQ42, last I checked, had no multi-player (they nerfed co-op for good reason). So if they can get the single player portion working, that would be a huge win for them. But if they don't solve these multiplayer issues, then include multiplayer in SQ42, we'll be having this same discussion well into 2017. Assuming they survive 2016 which I don't believe that they will.
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Nov 28, 2015 14:30
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Sarsapariller posted:I imagine that it's not client authoritative or anything, any more than typical Cryengine (which is admittedly bad about that). It's just using whatever is in Arena Commander's offline mode to set up a local server and run off of that. Which really suggests that it's not very far removed from Arena Commander at all, and the boundaries in that mode are more artificially imposed now than anything else. But I'm just amazed that all the script triggers and things just... work. Apparently AC's offline mode is capable of handling all that as well. It does give me hope that people will be able to run private servers some day- that was another promise they made, at one point. But it makes me wonder what the hell's going on with the net code that causes it to get so unstable. This guy's been playing for an hour and a half crash-free. Online, you can't go five minutes. As I explained earlier, any client can also be a server. In fact, that's specifically how CryEngine is built. You do not need a stand-alone server. And that's how they were touting being able to run your own server. They may provide a console app that does just that or just leave it built into the game like most games do. e.g. in my 2009 games, All Aspect Warfare/Angle Of Attack, anyone can run a multiplayer session right from the main menu and have people join. Or you can download the stand-alone console server and use that to host a server. Seriously, it's rudimentary stuff. It's not rocket science.
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Nov 28, 2015 14:32
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Chalks posted:Interesting to read that after reading this article: SC is intentionally described in such subjective and readily interpreted terms. In doing so they allow the backer to create their own vision of what SC will be and thus fund it based on that perspective. The less vague things are the harder it is for CIG to sell the dream and the less funding they get. The problem is that eventually they (theoretically) have to deliver a product and then people will be put in the uncomfortable position of realizing precisely what they have paid hundreds or thousands of dollars for. That's going to cause significant backlash, amplified by all the resentment of three years of exploitive business practices and outright lies.
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Nov 28, 2015 14:41
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Elite has 150 k real stars that you can fly to sol see the constellations then fly to them. Oh and don't forget the billion star systems Lololol revolutionary game by Chris Roberts has one a
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Nov 28, 2015 14:43
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Sarsapariller posted:https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3uknz0/spoiler_the_beginning_of_squadron_42_and/ Back in Sept when I said that SQ42 was probably a 2017 release IF they survived 2016, I got yelled at by White Knights. If this game was ever going to be a 2016 release, even Fall 2016, they would have some gameplay (combat etc) to show by now.
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Nov 28, 2015 14:44
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