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Yeah Cho'Gall seems wildly ineffective in league play - his skillshots are fairly easy to dodge and he's a damage magnet. I get that people want to make it work, but he just lost to a 3 warrior comp, his team was stuck defending him all game. They literally didn't get a single tick on the Braxis beacons, and the event fired four or five times. Unless HHE dedicates a lot of time to making him work as a last-two pick with a comp that doesn't give it away ahead of time, I don't think it will without buffs.
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Jul 28, 2018 03:13
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I wouldn't mind seeing Cho'Gall buffed to make him feasible in TL, but to compensate Blizz could alter QM to allow the opposing team to mulligan their hero choice in response to matching against Cho'Gall (or other co-op heroes we might see in the future). Also where the gently caress is that new Blizzard Classic character, dammit. Gimmie a Fang skin for Greymane, at least.
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Jul 28, 2018 03:43
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Cho'gall's damage is fine, but they suffer from being too easily focused. I feel like Cho'gall would benefit the most from moving the bomb roll/detonation to be entirely under Gall's control and adding a new defensive ability to Cho. Maybe make Molten Block baseline?
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Jul 28, 2018 03:50
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Hmm let's just play a couple rounds of qm. Oh look, some rear end in a top hat cheesing with a chogall comp. Nerf chogall into the ground imho
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Jul 28, 2018 04:42
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Lord_Magmar posted:I agree with the spoiler, it’s just Garrosh and Whitemain are uniquely disappointing, Garrosh moreso. Whitemain’s big iconic moment is literally resurrecting her champion in the middle of a fight to protect her, and this kit has 0 of that. It could even just be that the damage ult is animated with a scarlet crusade Paladin dashing all over to hit enemies and it would work. 
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Jul 28, 2018 04:51
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I’ve seen that before and it still feels weak as a justification, if you can’t put her most iconic moment in the game maybe you should not be using her for this kit. Also I think making the damage ult animation be more interesting than a glowing golden ball would be a good thing and you can use her summoning the dude as how she casts it. So it isn’t a pet just a fancy animation like Cassia’s Valkyrie thing.
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Jul 28, 2018 06:44
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What's funny is that in the BfA cinematic Anduin does this huge AOE heal thing which basically seems like her big AOE ult. So they kind of jumped through hoops to make Whitemane work when they really didn't have to.
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Jul 28, 2018 07:22
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Lord_Magmar posted:Also I think making the damage ult animation be more interesting than a glowing golden ball would be a good thing and you can use her summoning the dude as how she casts it. So it isn’t a pet just a fancy animation like Cassia’s Valkyrie thing. I'm not gonna defend the damage ball as some super cool FX, but replacing it with a dude would have ramifications for teamfight clarity and intuitiveness.
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Jul 28, 2018 08:03
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ChickenHeart posted:I wouldn't mind seeing Cho'Gall buffed to make him feasible in TL, but to compensate Blizz could alter QM to allow the opposing team to mulligan their hero choice in response to matching against Cho'Gall (or other co-op heroes we might see in the future).
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Jul 28, 2018 08:34
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Garroshs kit is perfect for him because he's a huge heel that will ruin your poo poo and people love to hate him. He is also one of the few characters that can completely screw over one of his allies. It's a perfect translation. They captured the spirit of the character, just not his moves. The worst characters are those that are way too insistent on having their respective games directly translated into a genre that is ill-suited for these effects: The obnoxious Overwatch Assassins that just have features upon features shoved into their basic kit, making Blizzard endlessly gently caress with their numbers until a semblance of balance can be achieved. I do agree that parts of Whitemanes kit are boring though. Maybe her numbers and waveclear are good enough to bring back some dual support gameplay? Looking forward to trying her out in any case. The great support purge has left me wanting.
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Jul 28, 2018 08:54
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I said the same thing about Fenix when he came out  Mierenneuker posted:Looks like he'll be worse than Lunaara at launch! Turns out everything but "complexity" should have been maxed out for launch Fenix!
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Jul 28, 2018 08:54
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Lord_Magmar posted:I’ve seen that before and it still feels weak as a justification, if you can’t put her most iconic moment in the game maybe you should not be using her for this kit. I used to not care, but nowadays I'm honestly in the same camp. Blizzard has no fear of making up characters whole-cloth to match class fantasies (see: any of the Nephalem) or unit fantasies (see: any of the SCII generics), so I'd honestly rather see characters with unique and iconic moments made into their own thing. I'm still futilely waiting for the day that Blizzard makes Jimmy an entirely new kit and shuffles his current one on to S76.
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Jul 28, 2018 08:59
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Whitemane should've been
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Jul 28, 2018 09:49
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lei shen when
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Jul 28, 2018 11:04
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appropriatemetaphor posted:Hmm let's just play a couple rounds of qm. Oh look, some rear end in a top hat cheesing with a chogall comp. Nerf chogall into the ground imho Nerf chromie into the ground first , she can cheese QM and terrorize HL
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Jul 28, 2018 13:12
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I'm excited for horny priestess and I find it funny how many people are getting their poo poo in a twist about 'thenatic design' in a game stuffed with characters who do nothing close to their original counterparts. Mmm, yes, remember when Deckard Cain used his classic lorenado in Diablo 2? What a great moment they have forever captured in HotS, amen.
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Jul 28, 2018 13:50
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Erik should have a baseline jump and no way to deal damage other than charging into the enemy and losing a third of his HP, as the old blizzard gods intended
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Jul 28, 2018 13:53
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SirSamVimes posted:lei shen when I like to believe they’re holding Lei Shen back until they can get Jim Cummings back in the studio to do his reveal trailer HIS NAME: LEI SHEN DA TUNDA KING
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Jul 28, 2018 14:07
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Macaluso posted:I like to believe they’re holding Lei Shen back until they can get Jim Cummings back in the studio to do his reveal trailer Only if he does it in his Pooh voice.
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Jul 28, 2018 14:13
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Kurieg posted:Only if he does it in his Pooh voice. Consider this: official Winnie the Pooh HOTS announcer "They're attacking the core! Oh bother"
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Jul 28, 2018 15:22
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Something interesting that was picked up on about Whitemane, it seems like her Q's the only skill she has that consumes mana. That already makes her a lot more interesting than just another healbot.
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Jul 28, 2018 15:35
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Geckoagua posted:I'm excited for horny priestess and I find it funny how many people are getting their poo poo in a twist about 'thenatic design' in a game stuffed with characters who do nothing close to their original counterparts. Mmm, yes, remember when Deckard Cain used his classic lorenado in Diablo 2? What a great moment they have forever captured in HotS, amen. Deckard had become a Diablo meme so they turned him into a character with a meme kit, basically. Both of his ults are literally jokes turned into actual abilities. The fact that he has only really existed for giving the player exposition (lore) and the fact that he is a long winded grandpa talking your ear off when you just want to go fight things. Wasn't he also an April Fool's HotS joke as well? That said, like with any healer, I'll check her out when she is on rotation or something. I don't much play support anyway, so it doesn't affect me much.
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Jul 28, 2018 16:41
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I'm just sort of afraid it'll be another Malfurion where if you can spin the plates of keeping the buff up and staying in range to do damage while still keeping yourself safe, you're golden. Can't do all of that? You kinda suck now, sorry. Malfurion is like, one of the most wrongfully labeled 'difficulties' since his rework.
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Jul 28, 2018 17:07
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Macaluso posted:Consider this: official Winnie the Pooh HOTS announcer (Player disconnects from the game)"They say that nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day."
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Jul 28, 2018 17:12
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NameHurtBrain posted:I'm just sort of afraid it'll be another Malfurion where if you can spin the plates of keeping the buff up and staying in range to do damage while still keeping yourself safe, you're golden. Yeah... Malf is weird for me. I "get" how he works, and it "seems" cool to me, but he also seems like way more effort than I would normally want to put into playing a support, especially since it isn't easy for him to do what he needs to be doing. Also the lovely misclicking regrowth when your team is clumped up or someone is basically dry humping you for heals. Whitemane seems like a cross between Malf and Auriel so I dunno how down for that I am going to be.
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Jul 28, 2018 17:13
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NameHurtBrain posted:I'm just sort of afraid it'll be another Malfurion where if you can spin the plates of keeping the buff up and staying in range to do damage while still keeping yourself safe, you're golden.
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Jul 28, 2018 18:19
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I think the laser heal talent is their attempt at avoiding Malf's high skill cap plate juggling by giving less skilled players an out.
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Jul 28, 2018 18:27
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Gobbeldygook posted:I think she'll be exactly that: really strong in practiced hands but garbage in lower leagues. So I predict like a 40% win rate at launch unless they massively over tune her. I suspect she'll be one that always has a large gulf in her win rate between leagues. And she looks complicated/involved enough that even high skill players will probably not do that great with her relative to other healers like Alex or Malf the first week or so even if she is equally effective in skilled hands. Unless she's overtuned; it seems like Deckard was the only hero not needing a lot of tweaks right out of the gate in the last few releases.
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Jul 28, 2018 18:30
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healing via lifesteal is always an iffy proposition but Her Royal Thighness has 100% aoe lifesteal across AAs and spell damage which is a pretty serious amount.
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Jul 28, 2018 18:32
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:healing via lifesteal is always an iffy proposition but Her Royal Thighness has 100% aoe lifesteal across AAs and spell damage which is a pretty serious amount. She can heal for 145 with her Q, 318 with her W, and anywhere between 82 and a fuckton with her E. She'll be alright.
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Jul 28, 2018 18:44
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Geckoagua posted:I'm excited for horny priestess and I find it funny how many people are getting their poo poo in a twist about 'thenatic design' in a game stuffed with characters who do nothing close to their original counterparts. Mmm, yes, remember when Deckard Cain used his classic lorenado in Diablo 2? What a great moment they have forever captured in HotS, amen. Lorenado is from Diablo 3.
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Jul 28, 2018 19:02
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Lord_Magmar posted:I agree with the spoiler, it’s just Garrosh and Whitemain are uniquely disappointing, Garrosh moreso. Whitemain’s big iconic moment is literally resurrecting her champion in the middle of a fight to protect her, and this kit has 0 of that. It could even just be that the damage ult is animated with a scarlet crusade Paladin dashing all over to hit enemies and it would work. Forcing designs from other games doesn't work well, and the more annoying Overwatch heroes are evidence of that. Scarlet Aegis is clearly an homage to the mass res, while Garrosh is an angry orc grunt from the old Horde, which makes sense for him. The Old God stuff, which was just one expansion in WoW anyway, could be referenced with a skin.
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Jul 28, 2018 19:19
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Yeah, Lorenado is an April Fool's thing. I'm actually surprised the upgrade isn't to make it do actual damage. I would have totally played an Archivist in D3 but I guess cosplaying Deckard doesn't really play into the game's power fantasy aspect. That said, Deckard Cain is a fan favorite with no literal combat prowess, so they have to pull poo poo out of their rear end. I think the kit they gave him works pretty well for what theme he has, he's basically just throwing random poo poo he's collected over the years. He's not running on raw power, just cleverly using what he has. He's pretty much Scholar Batman in a way. I'm trying to think of a similar character who could fit that label of fan favorite non-combatant, but most moderately popular characters in WoW have some sort of combat prowess, i don't know enough about Starcraft or Overwatch to really pull from that, and the only other character who comes to mind in Diablo notable enough and not really a warrior is Leah, whose combat abilities are: uselessly plink at enemy with bow. Also being corrupted and turning into Diablo, but that niche is filled by...um, Diablo. And I'm not really hearing people clamoring for her anyway. Blizzard seems to go on the idea that if a character gets popular, they have to kick rear end in some way.
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Jul 28, 2018 19:24
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The Innkeeper from Hearthstone would be another "non-combatant", because everything would technically be a summoned from a card. Unless they turn him into Gambit/Twisted Fate and let the cards themselves do direct damage.
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Jul 28, 2018 19:36
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Arcturus Mengsk from SC and SC2 has no combat abilities (at least none that are shown in game), he's just a ruthless power-hungry politician. Fans have been talking about adding him for a while. I kinda hope they don't unless they make him another Abathur (which probably won't happen), but there's a popular non-combatant.
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Jul 28, 2018 19:50
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Macaluso posted:Consider this: official Winnie the Pooh HOTS announcer I will pay fat stacks of cash for this.
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Jul 28, 2018 19:52
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NameHurtBrain posted:I'm trying to think of a similar character who could fit that label of fan favorite non-combatant, but most moderately popular characters in WoW have some sort of combat prowess, i don't know enough about Starcraft or Overwatch to really pull from that, and the only other character who comes to mind in Diablo notable enough and not really a warrior is Leah, whose combat abilities are: uselessly plink at enemy with bow. Depends on whether you mean someone who literally can't fight, or someone who is neither a player character or boss, but still presented as tough. I'm assuming the former, at any rate. In Starcraft, medics don't have any form of attack, so that's Morales. And Abathur is a weird brain-slug who is basically the Zergish Folding@home. Her skills are about half-and-half straight from the game and new stuff that "makes sense" thematically. I think Aba might've been developed in tandem with the SC2 Co-op mode; in any case, he shares abilities with his source material. I can think of a handful of non-combatants from each franchise that aren't in HotS. Again, mostly Starcraft's scientists & commanders. Overwatch probably has the least, to be honest. It'd be neat if Tracer had a skin based on her girlfriend, because in that reality they switched or whatever, but you couldn't build a kit for her as a Hero in her own right.
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Jul 28, 2018 20:05
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Kith posted:I used to not care, but nowadays I'm honestly in the same camp. Blizzard has no fear of making up characters whole-cloth to match class fantasies (see: any of the Nephalem) or unit fantasies (see: any of the SCII generics), so I'd honestly rather see characters with unique and iconic moments made into their own thing. The problem is that by the dev team's own admission you can't really do the Resurrect Ult without it either being broken or garbage and considering the history of Mercy in Overwatch and Auriel's own useless resurrect, I'm willing to believe them. I actually like it a lot when Blizzard either creates whole-cloth new characters like you mentioned, but I also dig the way the HOTS team is able to salvage thinly-written third-stringers like Dehaka, Gazlowe, and Rehgar and give them a life of their own. Whitemane is known for her hat first, the resurrect second, and then nothing really. Outside of Legion, where she becomes a Death Knight, she had the one line of dialog and maybe some backstory in some terrible comic that no one read and that was it. But they managed to spin her out into some vicious dominatrix weirdo with a haughty anime laugh, and that's cool too and feels natural and pretty consistent with the Scarlet Crusade since they're torture obsessed overly dramatic freaks. Semper Fudge fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Jul 28, 2018 |
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Jul 28, 2018 21:12
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That's a new one. On Towers, the red team Ana used her ult to stop me from capping an altar for a good 15 seconds while the rest of her team finished some business elsewhere. Every time I almost had the cap, a single shot came in to interrupt me.
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Jul 28, 2018 22:32
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Thats actually pretty cool but I stand by the point that many characters have abilities that never actually made it into their published game. Also I was thinking about it and Cain would've been better and more lore accurate if players had to right click him to heal or 'ID equipment' for temporary buffs 
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Jul 28, 2018 23:50
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