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Soonmot posted:At that point, you might as well take ride the wave style and min max your character. While having every gangrel able to hand out lethal damage to vampires still makes them threats, masquerade gangrels able to pop agg damage at will made even the meekest gangrel something to watch for and keep on your side. Uh, I don't know if I understand. If your main goal is 'do agg damage with my claws', then yes, you should take stuff that supports that goal, like Ride the Wave style. And dots in brawl, and maybe some discipline dots in Celerity and Vigor, and a lot of other decisions aimed at making your character a melee combatant. If it's more 'my clan identity is tied to easy access to aggravated damage because how will other players know to respect and fear me, drat it' then that's a different thing, I dunno. I still think Protean is good, Unmarked Grave is surprisingly good and Predatory Aspect has the potential to make you immune to Dominate and parts of Nightmare.
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Aug 12, 2018 06:49
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MonsieurChoc posted:I generally don't like the 2E power creep and preferred the 1E weaker supernaturals. Weaker in some ways, not in others. A Ventrue Ordo could operate at full effectiveness and not need to ever actually harm a human being, which, while strong, is not strong in a way that enforces theme.
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Aug 12, 2018 06:55
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MonsieurChoc posted:I generally don't like the 2E power creep and preferred the 1E weaker supernaturals. I think there's a happy medium to be found. I can say having played it that Promethean 2E gets the balance just about right; Changeling 2E looks to but I haven't played it yet. Demon on the other hand is dumb about power levels if you minmax even a little. At character creation, before you get a single XP even, you can make a guy who can cast the equivalent of Time Stop, buff a shotgun to do extra damage and convert it to agg, and one-shot most of the sample antagonists in the Demon book. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 08:28 on Aug 12, 2018 |
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Aug 12, 2018 08:26
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I think there's a happy medium to be found. I can say having played it that Promethean 2E gets the balance just about right; Changeling 2E looks to but I haven't played it yet.
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Aug 12, 2018 11:31
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Bosushi! posted:This was the 1st Edition Get Tribebook. The very first mention of the Get in the fiction, IIRC, was the braided novel When Will You Rage... which had a jewish Get kinfolk killing the poo poo out of a whole line of Get of Fenris because one of their ancestors (and his direct father) was a no-poo poo Nazi who was an officer in the camps before escaping to the US and is quoted as saying his mother would 'make a nice jacket'. Edit: Found my copy. Story is 'A Sheep In Wolf's Clothing' by Vincent Courtney Dawgstar posted:(The Assamites have a better claim to join the Cam, at least some of them, he say sulkily.) The Assamites should stay neutral and turn into antagonists, honestly. Just go full on murder frenzy on anyone they remotely think is a threat or who someone else will pay to have merked. Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Aug 12, 2018 |
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Aug 12, 2018 16:39
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Liquid Communism posted:The Assamites should stay neutral and turn into antagonists, honestly. Just go full on murder frenzy on anyone they remotely think is a threat or who someone else will pay to have merked. I dunno. I really dug the Revised clanbook. Putting them into three groups, with one of them acting just as you recommend but also a group that could work with Cams (the Sabbat having their own brand already) just worked for me. And even the last group you could probably have a fun 'what does it mean to be Haqim's blood in the Final Nights' game with the Dispossessed.
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Aug 12, 2018 17:02
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If I'm trying to jump into Mage 2E, do I actually need the Chronicles of Darkness core for anything, and if so, do I also need the World of Darkness core, too (which for some reason Chronicles of Darkness itself says is necessary)? Mage 1E needed the old WoD core, but the new edition seems at a glance to have all of the core mechanics.
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Aug 12, 2018 18:31
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Pussy Cartel posted:If I'm trying to jump into Mage 2E, do I actually need the Chronicles of Darkness core for anything, and if so, do I also need the World of Darkness core, too (which for some reason Chronicles of Darkness itself says is necessary)? Mage 1E needed the old WoD core, but the new edition seems at a glance to have all of the core mechanics. The 2e core has all the core mechanics in it. The Chronicles of Darkness core may be useful for a couple of subsystems we didn't have room for (vehicles, investigations, monster creation) but we got more of the core rules into Mage than the other 2e cores did, and none of them need CofD either.
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Aug 12, 2018 18:35
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Pussy Cartel posted:If I'm trying to jump into Mage 2E, do I actually need the Chronicles of Darkness core for anything, and if so, do I also need the World of Darkness core, too (which for some reason Chronicles of Darkness itself says is necessary)? Mage 1E needed the old WoD core, but the new edition seems at a glance to have all of the core mechanics. You don't need the first edition core for anything in 2e. You don't super need the CoD core if you have any of the other cores, but there are more and expanded subsystems in it for stuff like investigation or more Merits. Some or all of that stuff might be in the free God-Machine Chronicles update, I don't quite remember. (But the GMC references the 1e core, so.)
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Aug 12, 2018 18:36
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Crasical posted:Uh, I don't know if I understand. If your main goal is 'do agg damage with my claws', then yes, you should take stuff that supports that goal, like Ride the Wave style. And dots in brawl, and maybe some discipline dots in Celerity and Vigor, and a lot of other decisions aimed at making your character a melee combatant. Yeah, it was more that every gangrel potentially had agg damage. Protean is still great, I love the build a bear approach to creating a beast form and then getting to improve upon it at level 4. I just have some weird hang up
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Aug 12, 2018 23:27
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The Dungeons and Dragons adage of 'Turning into a giant monster bear solves most problems' holds true.
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Aug 13, 2018 03:20
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Crasical posted:The Dungeons and Dragons adage of 'Turning into a giant monster bear solves most problems' holds true. The Gurahl Did Nothing Wrong is probably a T-Shirt, somewhere.
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Aug 13, 2018 05:34
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Shockeh posted:The Gurahl Did Nothing Wrong is probably a T-Shirt, somewhere. I mean their one big mistake was choosing the absolute worst time to try and teach the Garou a lesson.
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Aug 13, 2018 05:53
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Kurieg posted:I mean their one big mistake was choosing the absolute worst time to try and teach the Garou a lesson. While they were awake?
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Aug 13, 2018 06:20
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Rand Brittain posted:While they were awake? The crown prince of the Garou was assassinated while on a diplomatic mission to the Grondr and the when they went to the Gurahl to have him brought back to Life the Gurahl said "nah he probably deserved to die." So the Garou thought that the Grondr and the Gurahl were probably in cahoots and then the war of rage happened.
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Aug 13, 2018 06:45
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Kurieg posted:The crown prince of the Garou was assassinated while on a diplomatic mission to the Grondr and the when they went to the Gurahl to have him brought back to Life the Gurahl said "nah he probably deserved to die." Imagine trying to make sense of this sentence without the required foreknowledge.
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Aug 13, 2018 09:24
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Mendrian posted:Imagine trying to make sense of this sentence without the required foreknowledge. I'm more annoyed that despite it being over ten years since I last looked at a WtA book, I understood all of it.
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Aug 13, 2018 10:13
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I'm familiar enough with WtA that I might be able to name most of the Breeds off the top of my head, and I'm still like "the Garou had a crown prince?"
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Aug 13, 2018 10:14
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That Old Tree posted:I'm familiar enough with WtA that I might be able to name most of the Breeds off the top of my head, and I'm still like "the Garou had a crown prince?" Still do (or at least did in the nineties, haven't really paid much attention to any of the newer WtA stuff)
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Aug 13, 2018 11:45
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The Silver Fangs have never really understood that no one actually cared about their monarchy.
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Aug 13, 2018 12:58
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I mean to be fair the entire point of werewolves is them destroying the world because they can't accept they aren't important.
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Aug 13, 2018 13:31
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That Old Tree posted:I'm familiar enough with WtA that I might be able to name most of the Breeds off the top of my head, and I'm still like "the Garou had a crown prince?" Back in prehistory the silver fangs were a lot more universally respected by the tribes. So, yes they sort of did. Mulva posted:I mean to be fair the entire point of werewolves is them destroying the world because they can't accept they aren't important. Well, yes. And Revised is them realizing that violence is not some universal problem solver and trying to fix that. Also the crown prince was assassinated by a Wyrm tainted Nagah(weresnake) and the rest of the Nagah decided that they were too important to risk raising the Garou's anger and it wasn't like they were going to kill everyone right? Then getting righteously indignant when their non interference didn't solve the problem. I think the moral of werewolf is "Rage was a mistake".
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Aug 13, 2018 13:56
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Gaia was just incredibly bad at designing servants.
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Aug 13, 2018 13:57
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Mors Rattus posted:Gaia was just incredibly bad at designing servants. Poor weresharks, just too horny to be playable.
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Aug 13, 2018 14:55
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Kurieg posted:I think the moral of werewolf is "Rage was a mistake". To riff off of this, I’ve always disliked the Rage/Frenzy Rules because it always felt very binary when it came to the chance of frenzy. It’s almost impossible to Frenzy if you don’t have 4 Perm Rage, but extremely likely if you do. It’s definitely one area where I think the game would benefit from the 5th ed design by giving them Rage Dice, similar to V5’s Hunger Dice, to give that sense of a growthing threat of Frenzy. It’ll be interesting to see how they do it, especially in regards to keeping the theme of the Auspice’s varying levels of Rage. It also raises the issue of how they’ll handle Gnosis as a completely separate resource.
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Aug 13, 2018 15:02
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Lord_Hambrose posted:Poor weresharks, just too horny to be playable. "No you can't play a human!" "That's fine, I can just be a Squamus and walk around on land." "gently caress THAT WOMAN OVER THERE RIGHT NOW!" "..what?" "ENTER THE ENCHANTED PISS FORESTTTTTT"
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Aug 13, 2018 15:02
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Clearly humans were meant to be the true servants, but then the Garou done went and hosed that up too.
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Aug 13, 2018 15:02
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Also there's no value to animal shape-shifting as part of their default abilities. At all. It's not like it's made them particularly more in tune with nature and their animal brethren, pretty much every single changing breed left their animal kin to die and started having more sex with humans to make up for it. There is literally nothing of value in the entire design of the changing breeds. Objectively they were a mistake, and the werewolves were the greatest mistake of all. At least the Judeo-Christian God has this ineffable distance thing going on, where even Lucifer at the end is not even vaguely aware of what God's whole plan is [Or even if God is still alive]. Gaia is worshiped by the breeds, but also manifestly a moron. That has to suck, knowing your god is real and also stupid and bad at everything.
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Aug 13, 2018 15:10
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'Okay, so, I have decided. That I am going to make a new servant race.' '...please, Lady Gaia, don't-' 'No, no, these ones won't kill people, and also they will be diplomats.' '...okay? What are they-' 'THEY ARE FOXES! Also I made them all in Asia because I got distracted and never got around to the European or American foxes.' '...um.' 'Also they're all super horny and have sex all the time.' 'Lady Gaia, are you sure that-' 'But don't worry! I decided that this time I wouldn't make them unable to breed with each other, so we can't run out!' '...of course you did.'
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Aug 13, 2018 15:24
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Mors Rattus posted:'Okay, so, I have decided. That I am going to make a new servant race.' 'But every time one of them is born, one of their parents dies!' 'W...why?' 'So by default they're either a special snowflake or have a tragic backstory! Sometimes BOTH of their parents die!' 'You're entirely too happy about this.'
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Aug 13, 2018 15:26
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Mulva posted:That has to suck, knowing your god is real and also stupid and bad at everything. IIRC that was ReindotHagen's partial intention- God is real and you can communicate directly with them and know what they want, even if it's wrong or stupid. There is a lot of lapsed Catholic angst in WtA 1st Edition.
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Aug 13, 2018 16:17
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Loomer posted:Clearly humans were meant to be the true servants, but then the Garou done went and hosed that up too. The Ratkin were doing fine keeping human population levels low in a non-lethal way, but... you know... Garou.
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Aug 13, 2018 16:17
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Can't forget the Ajaba, either. The fact that there was not one, but two whole breeds whose purpose was to prune and cull human populations (and a breed dedicated to making them grow healthy and strong!) really shows that the Garou were loving morons with the Impergium. "Hurr durr I'm a psychotic killing machine whose main role is to kill banes, i can definitely be trusted with eugenics!"
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Aug 13, 2018 16:24
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Dawgstar posted:The Ratkin were doing fine keeping human population levels low in a non-lethal way, but... you know... Garou. TB:CoG's take on the ratkin purges are particularly hilarious.
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Aug 13, 2018 16:35
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Ratkin are objectively the best changing breed; they had auspices to play a rat of NIHM and to play an insane swashbuckling Baron Munchausen edit: By the way, anyone see any reviews for CtL 2E? I bought the physical book but not the pdf because I didn't know there would be like a year difference between their release dates, and I'm hungry for more information / wondering if I should just double-dip and buy the pdf.
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Aug 13, 2018 17:36
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Loomer posted:Can't forget the Ajaba, either. The fact that there was not one, but two whole breeds whose purpose was to prune and cull human populations (and a breed dedicated to making them grow healthy and strong!) really shows that the Garou were loving morons with the Impergium. The Simba seem to be a bigger boat anchor to the Ajaba, and that's fair. Lions are super huge dicks to hyenas.
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Aug 13, 2018 18:00
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Digital Osmosis posted:edit: By the way, anyone see any reviews for CtL 2E? I bought the physical book but not the pdf because I didn't know there would be like a year difference between their release dates, and I'm hungry for more information / wondering if I should just double-dip and buy the pdf. They walked back a lot of the stuff that I thought was dumb from the early releases like Seeming being exclusively a factor of your escape from Arcadia and Beast Seeming being real horny. I'm moderately satisfied with mine.
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Aug 14, 2018 01:48
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I mean, I think everyone who was paying attention took away from WtA that the Garou as a society were incredibly, impossibly arrogant and dumb. Gaia made killing machines, and then forgot that they could turn on the rest of her kids too.
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Aug 14, 2018 02:04
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The main mistake the Garou made, to my mind, was not recognizing that their golden age fell apart because nobody actually wanted to live in it.
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Aug 14, 2018 02:27
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Dawgstar posted:The Simba seem to be a bigger boat anchor to the Ajaba, and that's fair. Lions are super huge dicks to hyenas. Oh, for sure. But in terms of the Impergium, the Ajaba are the best piece of evidence the Garou were loving morons. The Apis too, but of course, the Apis turned into tyrants who tore families apart and got what they deserved (have I posted my theory about it actually being the original fae that killed the Apis, actually?)
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Aug 14, 2018 03:28
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