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ah yes, Victor Sullivan, that altruistic paragon of virtue with no blood on his hands and who never swindles anyone for personal gain. Sully is a great character, but let's not pretend he's somehow above the kinds of things Nate does. hell, Sully brought him up to do just that.
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Dec 30, 2016 09:40
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Correct in everyway except all the wrong bits on line 2 (all of line 2)
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Dec 30, 2016 09:47
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I think people are talking at cross-purposes about what the word 'betray' actually means. Usually, when you're talking about a betrayal in a narrative sense, betrayal means a shocking turn around where you reveal you were working against the other party, working for their enemies, all in all basically being a spy. What Sam did was a much more personal kind of shittiness. Sam's still 100% on Team Nathan. There's no reason to believe that Sam was ever planning to kick Nathan off a cliff and steal the money for himself, or hand it all to Rage. But he lied to and tricked Nathan to get him onto Team Sam. Which, sure, that's an emotional betrayal and all that, but it's not really 'betraying' Nathan in a narrative sense, when the teams are pretty clearly defined. In fact, you could probably draw some parallels to the lies Sam tells Nathan to get Nathan to go on this adventure to the lies Nathan told Elena to get Nathan to go on this adventure.
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Dec 30, 2016 09:52
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Tendales posted:I think people are talking at cross-purposes about what the word 'betray' actually means. Usually, when you're talking about a betrayal in a narrative sense, betrayal means a shocking turn around where you reveal you were working against the other party, working for their enemies, all in all basically being a spy. Nate told Elena lies because he's gone far the opposite of Uncharted 3. In Uncharted 3 he basically gave no fucks about anyone else it was all about the treasure to him and it cost him everything until it appeared it ACTUALLY cost him everything. That shook him. Now he's not wanting to lose Elena, but his first suggestions to Sam upon hearing his 'plight' were to help him, hook him up with Cutter, anything that didn't involve him doing it himself.Yes. Nate missed the adventure and continued the lie and he absolutely is having a blast being on it... until he lost everything. And now he's discovered that everything he lost was for nothing. Sam told Nate lies because he doesn't think Rafe 'deserves' the treasure, and like Rafe rightly said "We're all thieves here." The thing is, Nate's lies ruined Nates life, but Sam's lies didn't ruin Sam's life, they ruined Nates life. They cut him off from his friends and family. They may look similar but is the difference in cutting off a finger and cutting off someone elses finger. Yes, in both cases, a finger has been severed, but in practice only the person losing the finger has suffered. Sam cut off Nates fingers and he made Nate cut off his fingers, even as he saw his brothers life being destroyed he pushed him onwards. gently caress Sam.
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Dec 30, 2016 10:11
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Hang on. Are you all trying to tell me that people committing theft, arson, wrecked-less driving, possessing and using explosives and firearms in public, mass-murder, corruption, and uh loving jaywalking on a now daily basis might be bad people when they start lying to each other? Okay.
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Dec 30, 2016 10:28
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Fabulousvillain posted:Hang on. Are you all trying to tell me that people committing theft, arson, wrecked-less driving, possessing and using explosives and firearms in public, mass-murder, corruption, and uh loving jaywalking on a now daily basis might be bad people when they start lying to each other? Okay. Look, say what you will about Nathan Drake, but he doesn't take those little tags off mattresses. He's not a monster. His brother, though? Who knows? He might even talk loudly in movie theaters.
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Dec 30, 2016 10:54
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Fabulousvillain posted:Hang on. Are you all trying to tell me that people committing theft, arson, wrecked-less driving, possessing and using explosives and firearms in public, mass-murder, corruption, and uh loving jaywalking on a now daily basis might be bad people when they start lying to each other? Okay. I mean, the lying to each other is the entire conceit of the story, it's the reason for all of that. So yeah, the lies in this situation are worse than all that because they're what caused it all to happen.
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Dec 30, 2016 11:35
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I would like to say that I did not see the betrayal of trust coming because I tried to be optimistic about how much Sam cared about Nate. This is probably because I'm sort of the Sam of my family, and I've been trying for years to mend my ways. Now, I'm just angry and disappointed in Sam for giving no shits about his brother's life, instead co-opting it for himself despite everything Nate built up without Sam in his life. What a loving poisonous person.
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Dec 30, 2016 11:56
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Tendales posted:I think people are talking at cross-purposes about what the word 'betray' actually means. Usually, when you're talking about a betrayal in a narrative sense, betrayal means a shocking turn around where you reveal you were working against the other party, working for their enemies, all in all basically being a spy. so it's not a betrayal because you made up a definition of betrayal that doesn't include it, got it
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Dec 30, 2016 15:24
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Onmi posted:... IS Sam supposed to be likable? I know he's been 'helping' but the moment we met the guy I didn't like him. Like, beyond him ruining a good thing for Nate, the two times we saw him when we were playing as "Younger Nate" he just seemed like that terrible family member who doesn't have his life together in the worst ways. He looked like a balding druggy (Well... Looks) And everything about him seemed to convey "You are supposed to think this man is the slimiest son of a bitch." While I was gone on vacation, my fiancee got into Uncharted 4 and played the whole thing. She actually did like Sam, probably because the game puts a ton of effort into building up the brothers' relationship and rapport as they adventure together. For that matter, though, she also considers Elena the queen and agrees that Sully is everyone's favorite grease grandpa. Onmi posted:Also, I was fine with the Nadine thing this episode until she was up on her feet after being punched through the floor, not because of the punch, but because they all just fell and hit rock. There is no amount of training in the world that makes you tanky enough to get up after falling through the floor that distance to rock. And there was no reason that the scene couldn't have played out the same way, and if anything, further solidified Sam as the grub he is, being willing to pull the gun in a two on one situation, and in fact, completely being willing to execute Nadine even knowing he'd just die when his hostage was dead. Exactly how is Nadine being fine from her fall the one thing that breaks your suspension of disbelief? The game is an action movie where improbable things happen 24/7. Throughout the entire series of 4 games, everyone regardless of their physical fitness shrugs off things that would cripple or kill people in real life. Nate's never rolled an ankle, Elena took no effort to become an action movie star killing dozens of people without flinching despite being a reporter, and Sully hasn't broken a hip trying to climb a sheer cliff in Borneo.
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Dec 30, 2016 15:44
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chitoryu12 posted:Exactly how is Nadine being fine from her fall the one thing that breaks your suspension of disbelief? The game is an action movie where improbable things happen 24/7. Throughout the entire series of 4 games, everyone regardless of their physical fitness shrugs off things that would cripple or kill people in real life. Nate's never rolled an ankle, Elena took no effort to become an action movie star killing dozens of people without flinching despite being a reporter, and Sully hasn't broken a hip trying to climb a sheer cliff in Borneo. The rest of them reacted like they'd fallen through a floor and hit sheer rock, but Nadine just didn't. She's pretty much a terminator when it comes to shrugging off hits that hurt everybody else when it happens to them. 
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Dec 30, 2016 15:48
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This game is such loving bullshit with its immense secret pirate havens that no one's discovered with the advent of Google Earth, drones and satellites and implausibly lucky protagonist who shrugs off being in a car crash within the same day. And now they're trying to push that some random 5'5" mercenary lady who heads a PMC can take on two guys that're six and ten inches taller than her with no apparent combat training aside from street fighting at once? Sonna bakana!
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Dec 30, 2016 16:14
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It's really not as silly as you're acting like it is to expect the game to obey its own rules. Drake falls from some serious heights and survives just fine, but they at least have the courtesy to make him go "ouch that hurt" instead of "..."
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Dec 30, 2016 16:17
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CJacobs posted:It's really not as silly as you're acting like it is to expect the game to obey its own rules. Drake falls from some serious heights and survives just fine, but they at least have the courtesy to make him go "ouch that hurt" instead of "..." Oh, so the problem is she didn't go 'I'M IN PAIN!!!!' after she fell.
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Dec 30, 2016 16:30
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[Watches video where Sam literally takes a bullet for Nate.] Man that rear end in a top hat Sam, I can't believe he doesn't care about Nate.
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Dec 30, 2016 16:34
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chitoryu12 posted:While I was gone on vacation, my fiancee got into Uncharted 4 and played the whole thing. She actually did like Sam, probably because the game puts a ton of effort into building up the brothers' relationship and rapport as they adventure together. For that matter, though, she also considers Elena the queen and agrees that Sully is everyone's favorite grease grandpa. Be- CJacobs posted:The rest of them reacted like they'd fallen through a floor and hit sheer rock, but Nadine just didn't. She's pretty much a terminator when it comes to shrugging off hits that hurt everybody else when it happens to them. Yeah pretty much that, because they all fell from the same height and Nate and Sam were both struggling back to their feet. I don't care that Nadine's a woman, If it had been... who's the guy in Uncharted 2? The Warlord? Whoever, I'd be calling bull the same on him just being on his feet. I wouldn't have even mind if they'd been shown to hit the ground and then she'd pushed herself off it quickly while the two brothers were still trying to get to their feet. That feels appropriately badass without making it feel weird. Just because it happens off screen doesn't mean it's not weird. It's like how cutscene bullets are immediately more lethal/dangerous than gameplay ones. Obviously, everyone is far more wary about guns and the like when the cutscenes hit despite eating a chain gun and nipping behind a wall to recover. But if a character in a cutscene basically didn't care about a gun being to their head, got shot, and then punched the person who shot them, while that's what happens in the gameplay, it'd be really weird. I also would have taken her snatching a branch on the way down so she could just drop to her feet, shows her reflexes and again, establishes that she's far more skilled than them there Drake boys. It'd be the same weirdness if it were Sam the one on his feet kicking Nadine after the fall. You can't be the only character with a crippling weakness to cutscenes. RareAcumen posted:This game is such loving bullshit with its immense secret pirate havens that no one's discovered with the advent of Google Earth, drones and satellites and implausibly lucky protagonist who shrugs off being in a car crash within the same day. And now they're trying to push that some random 5'5" mercenary lady who heads a PMC can take on two guys that're six and ten inches taller than her with no apparent combat training aside from street fighting at once? And I really don't get this one. I have no problem with the fight scene, especially since Nadine is very clearly being groomed as the final boss. Rafe's a clown, he's displayed no skills and despite his attempts at appearing to be light hearted treasure hunter, he has no cool. I don't think Nadine will betray him because... frankly. She seems very professional and unless she gets hosed over seems perfectly happy taking her split and then no harm no foul. It's actually really good set up to a boss battle. She's showed now in two encounters that 1. She can take Nate hand to hand with no problem and 2. Even with Sam, she can beat them effortlessly, though together they got more openings to exploit. I think Naughty Dog are pretty smart at building encounters. So the obvious third encounter will likely build on that, exploiting weaknesses to chip away at Goliath's stamina until you finally take her down. Dimebags Brain posted:[Watches video where Sam literally takes a bullet for Nate.] It's not that he doesn't care about Nate, it's that he cares more about the idea of "The Drake Brothers finding Avery's Gold" than what Nate was actually doing with his life, or what he's cost him. Hell the update just before this one, Nate's saying they can go an Sam loses it "This is about buying back my future!" Which was a lie. Sam is playing the role of Uncharted 3 Nate. And Nate is playing the role of Uncharted 3 Sully. Nate does not think this treasure is worth it, and was clearly only doing this because he thought it was to save his brother. Sam on the other hand, does not care what he destroys in the process, he needs to be the one to find Avery's treasure with Nate. But that doesn't mean he didn't betray his brother and destroy his life for his own selfish goals. You can love someone and betray them and be selfish. Onmi fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Dec 30, 2016 |
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Dec 30, 2016 16:35
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RareAcumen posted:Oh, so the problem is she didn't go 'I'M IN PAIN!!!!' after she fell. I really should have expected that response. No, I did not literally mean that they should have had her just vocalize that it hurt because the player is unable to assume that falling 2 stories onto rocks hurts. I think Naughty Dog trusts in the player to make that assumption. What I meant is more that the game teeters on the edge of being realistic and unrealistic in how the characters react when they get hurt, and Nadine is just enough on the unrealistic side that it feels out of place.
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Dec 30, 2016 16:39
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I think I hate Rafe more than Lazarevic, the guy from UC1, or that suited guy and Sully's old flame from UC3. He's not just a prick, he's a prick who pretends to be nice about how much of a prick he is, like a used car salesman. Never has it been more glaringly obvious that he's going to kill everyone the moment they're no longer useful, so why even bother helping him at all. I also really would like the inevitable supernatural element to finally show up and add some variety to all the mercenaries.
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Dec 30, 2016 16:44
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we didnt even see how Nadine fell she could have done anything to get a better landing I really dont feel its a problem
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Dec 30, 2016 16:55
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I just can't handle all of this simulfictive disaccord
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Dec 30, 2016 17:08
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CJacobs posted:I really should have expected that response. No, I did not literally mean that they should have had her just vocalize that it hurt because the player is unable to assume that falling 2 stories onto rocks hurts. I think Naughty Dog trusts in the player to make that assumption. What I meant is more that the game teeters on the edge of being realistic and unrealistic in how the characters react when they get hurt, and Nadine is just enough on the unrealistic side that it feels out of place. But that's how the formula worked all those other times Nate got hurt! http://i.imgur.com/M4pGwJy.mp4 Dimebags Brain posted:[Watches video where Sam literally takes a bullet for Nate.] And how did Nate end up in that situation though? This whole adventure is Sam's fault, if he'd been straight up with him from the beginning and said 'Rafe sprung me out of jail to go look for this lost pirate treasure and I bailed on him because he tore some dude's ear off for bringing him an espresso with too little foam. Wanna help me steal some treasure from the prick?' and Nate agreed then that would've been fine. DeafNote posted:we didnt even see how Nadine fell I think she's pretty invincible. Like some kind of slasher villain. Or a robocop.
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Dec 30, 2016 17:09
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To be fair to Sam, he did half-heartedly try to get Nate to tell Elena the truth about where he was going. I mean, he still lied to Nate about why he wanted the treasure, but he didn't intend to ruin Nate's life forever.
Clarste fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Dec 30, 2016 |
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Dec 30, 2016 17:25
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RareAcumen posted:But that's how the formula worked all those other times Nate got hurt! What the hell is this immersion ruining bullshit. They took the camera focus off Nate for something he couldn't even look at
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Dec 30, 2016 17:30
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Sinners Sandwich posted:What the hell is this immersion ruining bullshit. They took the camera focus off Nate for something he couldn't even look at I can't believe we're four games in and no one has acknowledged the Lakitu following Nathan Drake around.
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Dec 30, 2016 17:34
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RareAcumen posted:I can't believe we're four games in and no one has acknowledged the Lakitu following Nathan Drake around. You leave that poor Lakitu alone, it's put in hard work.
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Dec 30, 2016 17:37
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Onmi posted:You leave that poor Lakitu alone, it's put in hard work. Someone could at least say hi to it or something! drat, they ignore it like it's homeless or something.
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Dec 30, 2016 17:39
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Clarste posted:To be fair to Sam, he did half-heartedly try to get Nate to tell Elena the truth about where he was going.. I mean, he still lied to Nate about why he wanted the treasure, but he didn't intend to ruin Nate's life forever. This. Sam didn't ruin Nate's marriage, he did that one on his own. Sam's deception sucks balls but this doesn't absolve Nate being a dickheaded moron by deceiving Elena several times.
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Dec 30, 2016 18:01
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Sam was the one who fell with Nadine and he didn't seem particularly beat up either (he was on his hands and knees, but he didn't seem to be in much pain, and he was able to scamper quickly to the gun). for all we know, Sam could have broken part of Nadine's fall or something, or they could have fallen on a slightly softer part of the ground. Nadine just stood up first, while Nate took a breather and Sam chose to look for the gun.double nine posted:This. Sam didn't ruin Nate's marriage, he did that one on his own. Sam's deception sucks balls but this doesn't absolve Nate being a dickheaded moron by deceiving Elena several times. It doesn't make Nate not a moron for not telling Elena, but Sam's still an absolute shithead for lying about his life being on the line when really he's just a selfish bastard. Playing on the fact that your brother thought you were dead for the last two decades and probably doesn't want you to die right after he finds you again, just to get the treasure you always wanted is a dick move. Sam is a terrible brother, especially since he's had multiple opportunities to see the things Nate has been doing to his own life because of the lie and has continually decided to not tell the truth. He's not even the one who finally tells Nate--Rafe has to expose it, and Sam shows basically no guilt about the whole thing. morallyobjected fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Dec 30, 2016 |
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Dec 30, 2016 18:02
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double nine posted:This. Sam didn't ruin Nate's marriage, he did that one on his own. Sam's deception sucks balls but this doesn't absolve Nate being a dickheaded moron by deceiving Elena several times. Nate had legit reason to fear Elena knowing, and it isn't anyone going after her. It's the fear she'll leave him. Of any fear Nathan Drake has shown throughout all of uncharted, it has been the most human reaction period. Did he enjoy the adventure? Sure, as much as someone who quits smoking enjoys the initial feeling of breaking down and lighting up. But he also knows what adventure cost him, and what it almost cost him. morallyobjected posted:Sam was the one who fell with Nadine and he didn't seem particularly beat up either (he was on his hands and knees, but he didn't seem to be in much pain, and he was able to scamper quickly to the gun). for all we know, Sam could have broken part of Nadine's fall or something, or they could have fallen on a slightly softer part of the ground. Nadine just stood up first, while Nate took a breather and Sam chose to look for the gun. Point 1 is actually a legitimate observation, thank you for pointing it out to me. I did find it weird she wasn't under Nate when it appeared he'd punched her through but going back and watching, Nate basically just collapses the floor and they scatter, while Nadine and Sam were locked together, and him being a cushion for her fall definitely works. And Point 2 is also true. It's not that Nate wasn't a moron, though again, his reaction is basically so human and real that I don't think anything else in Uncharted comes quite as close as that. Not only did Sam lie, but even when he's telling Nate "Oh we can go on without you." it's in such an obvious smarmy guilt tripping way that weasels obviously do it. I've encountered people who talk like that. Sam may love Nate as his brother but he doesn't give a loving drat what happens in Nate's life outside of the Sam Drake show.
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Dec 30, 2016 18:11
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Onmi posted:Nate had legit reason to fear Elena knowing, and it isn't anyone going after her. It's the fear she'll leave him. Of any fear Nathan Drake has shown throughout all of uncharted, it has been the most human reaction period. Did he enjoy the adventure? Sure, as much as someone who quits smoking enjoys the initial feeling of breaking down and lighting up. But he also knows what adventure cost him, and what it almost cost him. This would make sense if Nate was just going on an adventure for shits and giggles like he used to, but he believed he had a legitimate reason to do it to save a life. Instead of bringing Sam in for coffee and telling his wife all about his brother's existence and what happened, he lied and ran off. By the time he told Elena the truth, she had been lied to so much that she couldn't even trust that he was telling the truth any more. Elena's not exactly a wimp. She's been an adventurer of her husband's caliber for years and has seen all the crazy supernatural poo poo he did. She'd understand where Nate was coming from, maybe even find alternative ways to help Sam or reveal that Alcazar has been dead for months. She definitely isn't the kind of person who would hear her husband telling her about Sam's plight and go "If you try to save his life I will divorce you".
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Dec 30, 2016 18:24
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chitoryu12 posted:This would make sense if Nate was just going on an adventure for shits and giggles like he used to, but he believed he had a legitimate reason to do it to save a life. Instead of bringing Sam in for coffee and telling his wife all about his brother's existence and what happened, he lied and ran off. By the time he told Elena the truth, she had been lied to so much that she couldn't even trust that he was telling the truth any more. Well yes, if you're being reasonable and logical you know, especially since Elena had just told him "Go speak to Sully and see if he needs help." since she could see her husband going stir crazy, that she would have supported him all the way. Elena doesn't feel betrayed because Nate went on an adventure, she feels betrayed he lied about it. Nate is... quite frankly. loving stupid. In his mind it's "Last time I went on adventures I lost Elena and almost lost Sully. No more adventures, cold turkey, don't even want to think about it, I don't want to lose Elena." In turn, doing the only thing (lying to Elena) that could actually make him lose her. That's the comedic tragedy of it all, the one thing he was trying to do is keep their relationship together, and in doing so he destroyed it. I mean I'm fairly certain that's one of Aesop's fables, though not with adventure. We the players know lying to Elena is bad and dumb, but Nate the character is a short sighted idiot.
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Dec 30, 2016 18:34
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CJacobs posted:I mean, the lying to each other is the entire conceit of the story, it's the reason for all of that. So yeah, the lies in this situation are worse than all that because they're what caused it all to happen. That's one way of looking at it, but then I think of that scene in the attic or coming into the house where Elena was waiting and realize that if Sam didn't lie he could've still convinced Nate to go even if it took more time or whatever. All I'm really seeing is an excuse and selfish rationalization of Nate wanting to do treasure hunting, and not wanting to look like a bad guy while doing it. Just like why he stopped Sam from shooting Nadine even though he's totally okay with offing hundreds of goons that probably wouldn't be there because of her, or maybe it's because he's just dumb. "You can't kill her, she has a name. And who else are we gonna be the hand-to-hand boss fight?"
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Dec 30, 2016 19:20
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RareAcumen posted:This game is such loving bullshit with its immense secret pirate havens that no one's discovered with the advent of Google Earth, drones and satellites and implausibly lucky protagonist who shrugs off being in a car crash within the same day. And now they're trying to push that some random 5'5" mercenary lady who heads a PMC can take on two guys that're six and ten inches taller than her with no apparent combat training aside from street fighting at once? 1: look up what suspension of disbelief means 2: the secret pirate haven isn't a series of boring forced boss fight that's more like a cutscene and doesn't exist entirely to be a bigbad dragon that just comes along and sets the proverbial village on fire before leaving scott free over and over. it's just an excuse to jump on things and make quips 3: why do you encourage the idea that all respectable women in games have to be conventionally attractive instead of having a cool swole lady that would actually make sense as the leader of a PMC that leads by the front 4: p sure that after 3 and a bit games worth of murdering people drake has more combat experience than blackwater does, can effortlessly take down men wearing combat gear with a single stone/iron/unobtainum fist and has literally fought monsters multiple times so the idea that somehow he's helpless against someone he has a physical advantage on even with help is lovely and makes no sense. this wouldn't be an issue if the game itself didn't want you to take it's story super seriously and feel really invested in the characters of drake and sam instead of just being an excuse to rip of indiana jones a bunch like say, uncharted 1, but by focusing more on the writing every wrinkle stands out more darealkooky fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Dec 30, 2016 |
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Dec 30, 2016 19:22
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Fabulousvillain posted:That's one way of looking at it, but then I think of that scene in the attic or coming into the house where Elena was waiting and realize that if Sam didn't lie he could've still convinced Nate to go even if it took more time or whatever. All I'm really seeing is an excuse and selfish rationalization of Nate wanting to do treasure hunting, and not wanting to look like a bad guy while doing it. Just like why he stopped Sam from shooting Nadine even though he's totally okay with offing hundreds of goons that probably wouldn't be there because of her, or maybe it's because he's just dumb. "You can't kill her, she has a name. And who else are we gonna be the hand-to-hand boss fight?" in what world where Nate has repeatedly said "it's not worth it; I've seen how this goes" before Sam says "But I'll die, remember, and it'll be your fault for not helping me" do you think that Nate is still just treasure hungry and using Sam as a justification? yes, he enjoys doing it, but even he thinks the stakes here are too high, and he's only along because of Sam. without the lie, there'd have been no reason to run off without telling Elena at all, because he could walk away, and even if he did get interested later, Elena's been trying to good him into doing more adventurous things lately anyway so he could have run with that. he has wanted to walk away from this at almost every turn, but Sam always pulls him back with "What about my life, Nathan?" and the guilt Nate has felt for not knowing Sam was alive for the last two decades and leaving him there in prison. what I'm saying is Sam is the real villain of Uncharted 4
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Dec 30, 2016 19:32
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Fabulousvillain posted:"You can't kill her, she has a name. And who else are we gonna be the hand-to-hand boss fight?" Exactly what stops the final boss fight from being Rafe?
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Dec 30, 2016 19:43
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chitoryu12 posted:Exactly what stops the final boss fight from being Rafe? Hes a tiny wiener of a man He the face gets melted nazi Not the get shredded by a propeller nazi Rigged Death Trap fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Dec 30, 2016 |
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Dec 30, 2016 19:44
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Rigged Death Trap posted:Hes a tiny wiener of a man Not once he gets his hands on that cursed pirate treasure and transforms
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Dec 30, 2016 19:49
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Rigged Death Trap posted:He the face gets melted nazi so you're saying that at the end he reads the replies in this thread
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Dec 30, 2016 19:56
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Rigged Death Trap posted:Hes a tiny wiener of a man Didn't stop Talbot from being the boss of the last one. They just gave him a knife and he was ready to fight off Nate and Sully. darealkooky posted:1: look up what suspension of disbelief means 1  2 ??? 3 Kinda feel like you're projecting a bit there, all I'm saying is that she's punching a bit above her weight class since her opponents are both taller than her and this ain't Hajime no Ippo. 4 Ah, fair enough. I agree with you there, since Drake has won all his fights in previous games, he is therefore the strongest human in the Uncharted universe and we should look forward to his inclusion in the Dragon Ball Super anime after defeating Broly without using his hands.
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Dec 30, 2016 20:01
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Nate isn't a great fighter, but neither are the mooks he fights, which is why he wins. there's no reason to expect that he should be able to take on Nadine, even with Sam, who has been in prison forever before just getting out and probably isn't a great fighter himself, so I don't understand why some people in this thread find it unreasonable that she keeps loving up Nate and Sam's day in a fight
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Dec 30, 2016 20:05
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