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EwokEntourage
Jun 10, 2008

BREYER: Actually, Antonin, you got it backwards. See, a power bottom is actually generating all the dissents by doing most of the work.

SCALIA: Stephen, I've heard that speed has something to do with it.

BREYER: Speed has everything to do with it.


EwokEntourage posted:

Pay the ticket

Am I correct this time?

EwokEntourage fucked around with this message at 05:15 on Jul 29, 2016

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nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

DaveSauce posted:

First: We're in Wake County, NC.

A few weeks ago my wife got a ticket for "failure to yield to blue lights," which is basically she didn't pull over right away for a cop with lights and sirens on. The exact law she was cited for is NC general statute 20-157. Section (a) I'm pretty sure.

The thing is, the cop wasn't there to pull her over, he was trying to pull someone else over. So because she didn't immediately dive to the shoulder, the cop got pissed and pulled her over as well. As an excuse, she swears the officer didn't have his siren on, which is pre-requisite for the citation....she was listening to NPR and didn't hear it, and when she noticed the cop waving at her after he pulled up next to her she turned the radio off and still didn't hear it. Now this doesn't mean he didn't just do a quick "blip" or something and she missed it...but I know she listens to the radio real quiet, so honestly the chances of missing a siren are pretty slim, especially when it's NPR.

But regardless, she's not planning on fighting it using that reasoning. We would need a lawyer and also some means to prove that the office didn't use the siren...so a dash cam from the office, which would have to be subpoenaed, and I haven't a clue how that works or how much that would cost...or if it would prove her right or wrong. So that said, her plan is to explain the situation and hope they're nice about it and just want to get her out the door without a fight.

What the hell does this mean and what's going to happen?

Mainly, what the hell is the process? She has to appear on Thursday (I know too late to really do anything), so what's going to happen? I don't know how the system works...all I know is that if she's going to fight the ticket, she has to schedule a new court date where the officer is available. So is she going to plead guilty to a clerk who's going to hit her with the max fine? Or a magistrate who will listen and cut her some slack?

And finally, North Carolina has a thing called "Prayer for Justice Continued," or PJC. Basically, the way I read it, is that you plead guilty and ask the judge to "continue judgement," which means all you do is pay court fees and nothing else happens...for 3 years. If 3 years elapses and you've been good, everything goes away. If you get nailed on a similar ticket, then you're double hosed and have to pay for both tickets.

This can generally be used for traffic violations, but the above violation is a class 2 misdemeanor. I have no idea if the PJC can be used for this or not...or even how to do it.

So I think I already know the answer...talk to a lawyer. I'm just hoping to get some clarity here and not have to have this hang around for a long time.

This is a loving misdemeanor, which means you can go to jail. Also, as it is essentially a crime similar to what would generically be called "fleeing to elude," it almost certainly comes with a license consequence. She needs a lawyer ASAP. This is not a crime they dismiss because you're nice -- it isn't a speeding ticket, it is a serious crime.

DaveSauce
Feb 15, 2004

Oh, how awkward.

nm posted:

This is a loving misdemeanor, which means you can go to jail. Also, as it is essentially a crime similar to what would generically be called "fleeing to elude," it almost certainly comes with a license consequence. She needs a lawyer ASAP. This is not a crime they dismiss because you're nice -- it isn't a speeding ticket, it is a serious crime.

She has no priors, so max sentence is $1,000 and 1-30 days of "community punishment," which i take to mean community service. Is that not not a correct assessment?

Hot Dog Day #91
Jun 19, 2003

Hire a lawyer at 9 am tomorrow. That's not a traffic ticket.

Edit: having a lawyer greatly increases the chances of getting the charge changed to something less bad.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

DaveSauce posted:

She has no priors, so max sentence is $1,000 and 1-30 days of "community punishment," which i take to mean community service. Is that not not a correct assessment?

I would not assume that. And in many cases "community service" is in lieu of jail, which means if he car breaks down on the way, she gets to do a month in county.
Also, it means she has a misdemeanor on her record, one which will look fairly bad on any employment application, will prejudice cops next time they stop her, and lets not forget that there is almost certainly a license consequence. Here it is 6months to 12 months of no driving (IIRC), which is a big deal if she needs to use a car.

She cannot, 100%, handle this without a lawyer.

Ham Equity
Apr 16, 2013

The first thing we do, let's kill all the cars.
Grimey Drawer

DaveSauce posted:

This can generally be used for traffic violations, but the above violation is a class 2 misdemeanor. I have no idea if the PJC can be used for this or not...or even how to do it.

You know what's more expensive than hiring a lawyer? Not hiring one when you should. This is definitely one of those times when you should.

DaveSauce
Feb 15, 2004

Oh, how awkward.
I guess the officer seemed pretty dismissive when he gave her the citation...I guess he told her that it's not the end of the world or something.

But anyhow I guess we didn't realize how serious this could be. Honestly I'm not confident that anything major will come of it, but the fact that it COULD be serious means we're going to get in contact with a few lawyers tomorrow.

So the follow up would be:

First, what the hell is going to happen on Thursday? Does she just go in and plead not guilty and schedule a court date? Are they going to try to goad her in to doing something?

And then how does one find a lawyer? Of course we got a pile of mail from lawyers after she got the ticket...do they have any legitimacy, or is that just a pile of trash? Also, I found a couple on yelp that have good reviews (when most others don't have any reviews)...is that a valid place to look? Or are there better places to look?

Ham Equity
Apr 16, 2013

The first thing we do, let's kill all the cars.
Grimey Drawer

DaveSauce posted:

I guess the officer seemed pretty dismissive when he gave her the citation...I guess he told her that it's not the end of the world or something.

But anyhow I guess we didn't realize how serious this could be. Honestly I'm not confident that anything major will come of it, but the fact that it COULD be serious means we're going to get in contact with a few lawyers tomorrow.

So the follow up would be:

First, what the hell is going to happen on Thursday? Does she just go in and plead not guilty and schedule a court date? Are they going to try to goad her in to doing something?

And then how does one find a lawyer? Of course we got a pile of mail from lawyers after she got the ticket...do they have any legitimacy, or is that just a pile of trash? Also, I found a couple on yelp that have good reviews (when most others don't have any reviews)...is that a valid place to look? Or are there better places to look?
Best thing to do is get a recommendation from a lawyer you know and trust. Second-best is ask around to see if any of your friends knows a good criminal lawyer. After that, it's probably best to contact the state bar for a referral. Yelp should really be a last resort. Avvo should be a never-ever resort.

IANAL, but if you don't end up with a lawyer by Thursday, your best bet is probably to ask for a stay so that you can find one. Tell them the truth (that you didn't realize how serious it was until very recently, and weren't able to secure a lawyer in time for trial; if you can name some lawyers you talked to, that would probably help). Judges are usually pretty generous with stays on criminal matters, especially when not granting one would mean you'd have to go forward without a lawyer.

Nakar
Sep 2, 2002

Ultima Ratio Regum
When you say "appear" do you mean there's a trial date, or is this an appearance docket to enter a plea? If it's the latter all she has to do is show up, plead not guilty, and they'll reset for an actual trial date which gives you time to find a lawyer. If it's a trial date you shouldn't have put it off for so long, but you may still have an option:

Thanatosian posted:

IANAL, but if you don't end up with a lawyer by Thursday, your best bet is probably to ask for a stay so that you can find one. Tell them the truth (that you didn't realize how serious it was until very recently, and weren't able to secure a lawyer in time for trial; if you can name some lawyers you talked to, that would probably help). Judges are usually pretty generous with stays on criminal matters, especially when not granting one would mean you'd have to go forward without a lawyer.
Do this if you need more time. Judges will almost 100% of the time accept this and give you a reset to go find a lawyer, with the caveat that they expect you to have one ready next time. A criminal judge has no real interest in letting poor cases go to trial and would rather deal with a lawyer who understands procedure than a pro se defendant who needs to be handheld through the process.

xxEightxx
Mar 5, 2010

Oh, it's true. You are Brock Landers!
Salad Prong
Car towed from a private lot in North Carolina, towing company says management requested the tow, management denies the claim. Towing company wants $200 to release the car. Any real options here? Seems best to pay it or negotiate it down,

DaveSauce
Feb 15, 2004

Oh, how awkward.

Nakar posted:

When you say "appear" do you mean there's a trial date, or is this an appearance docket to enter a plea? If it's the latter all she has to do is show up, plead not guilty, and they'll reset for an actual trial date which gives you time to find a lawyer. If it's a trial date you shouldn't have put it off for so long, but you may still have an option:


Pretty sure it's the appearance to enter a plea, but I honestly don't know how this whole process works. Thursday is the date that the citation says she needs to appear at the courthouse, and up until now we have not had any contact with the county to enter a plea or anything.

That said, I haven't discussed it in detail, but my wife was able to speak with a lawyer this morning who says this shouldn't be a problem. Or rather, I guess he says he can do Thursday...she's going to go in to the details later, but she seemed awfully calm about it so I presume the lawyer said he was going be able to plea it to a lesser charge or something.

The next question: She needs to sign a "waiver of appearance," which I understand is just something to give the attorney the ability to represent her in court without her being present.

I presume that's pretty standard?

xxEightxx posted:

Car towed from a private lot in North Carolina, towing company says management requested the tow, management denies the claim. Towing company wants $200 to release the car. Any real options here? Seems best to pay it or negotiate it down,

I'm very interested in the answer to this. I've lived in a few apartments that loved to tow cars without parking stickers (at 3am right outside my window, but that's another story). I've always been paranoid that the tow company would "accidentally" tow legit cars and make a bunch of money. What is the recourse for an illegally towed car?

xxEightxx
Mar 5, 2010

Oh, it's true. You are Brock Landers!
Salad Prong

DaveSauce posted:

I'm very interested in the answer to this. I've lived in a few apartments that loved to tow cars without parking stickers (at 3am right outside my window, but that's another story). I've always been paranoid that the tow company would "accidentally" tow legit cars and make a bunch of money. What is the recourse for an illegally towed car?

I have a friend in a current lawsuit in a similar situation. A shady body shop went "out of business", the landlord of the property took possession of the place and claimed everything left behind was now his and could be used to satisfy unpaid rent, including my friends car. He claims it was abandoned and has refused to return it. She is paying two car payments and it's been a year and a half. The moral is that a finding that the car was "illegally taken" requires the court, best to do whatever you can to get the car back ASAP, possession being 9/10ths etc.

lord1234
Oct 1, 2008
Let's say a certain Realtor board of a certain state publishes a copy of an iron-clad lease agreement online, but at the top of it says "Use of this form unless you are a realtor is unauthorized". There is a Copyright value on the form. What legal trouble could one get into using this form without being a Realtor? What if one makes minor modifications to said form?

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin

xxEightxx posted:

Car towed from a private lot in North Carolina, towing company says management requested the tow, management denies the claim. Towing company wants $200 to release the car. Any real options here? Seems best to pay it or negotiate it down,

Pay it, because the cops and politicians are all on the towing company's side and you'll get charged another $30 a day or whatever if it stays there. I've seen cars get towed from their own spot, confirmed with the towing company's paperwork + lease of the towee and there's still nothing you can do.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

lord1234 posted:

Let's say a certain Realtor board of a certain state publishes a copy of an iron-clad lease agreement online, but at the top of it says "Use of this form unless you are a realtor is unauthorized". There is a Copyright value on the form. What legal trouble could one get into using this form without being a Realtor? What if one makes minor modifications to said form?

Why don't you hire a lawyer to write you a specific lease for your situation.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

And before you say "save money" let me tell you how much money you are going to spend litigating a bad lease.

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer
Pay to get the car back, then gently caress with them to get your money back. Get a letter from the business saying they didn't order the tow (they probably did, and won't give you the letter).

WhiskeyJuvenile
Feb 15, 2002

by Nyc_Tattoo
DC:

My wife's law firm was bought by another law firm. She had an accrued balance of annual leave. It seems to have disappeared into the ether. Something like $4000 in wages at stake.

I'd assume next step is to file a Office of Wage and Hour complaint against the old practice?

Difficulty level: Equity partners at old firm are now with the new firm.

dpkg chopra
Jun 9, 2007

Fast Food Fight

Grimey Drawer
Why would you file it against the old firm instead of the new firm? The new firm has theoretically absorbed all obligations.

Also, if they still exist as two separate entities (why? they merged, didn't they?) why not file against both?

Not a US laywer but that's what I would do here.

Guy Axlerod
Dec 29, 2008
Have you tried asking HR?

WhiskeyJuvenile
Feb 15, 2002

by Nyc_Tattoo

Guy Axlerod posted:

Have you tried asking HR?

old HR said it's all within old firm; she's talking to new firm tomorrow.

KaiserSchnitzel
Feb 23, 2003

Hey baby I think we Havel lot in common
Honestly? I'd be looking for a new job rather than filing a complaint. Then, when I got the new job, I'd file the complaint. Document everything.

Ham Equity
Apr 16, 2013

The first thing we do, let's kill all the cars.
Grimey Drawer
IANAL, and local laws vary tremendously, but generally speaking, in the U.S., leave is not part of pay, and employers can jerk you around however they want on it. Good employers generally won't, but there's a good chance it's legal.

EDIT: Oh, and if she's got an employment contract, it's an entirely different deal.

Ham Equity fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Jul 28, 2016

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

Thanatosian posted:

IANAL, and local laws vary tremendously, but generally speaking, in the U.S., leave is not part of pay, and employers can jerk you around however they want on it. Good employers generally won't, but there's a good chance it's legal.

While most states don't require vacation pay, most states (including VA and MD) require an employer that does promise vacation pay to honor that promise. (in accordance with the original vacation pay agreement)

xxEightxx
Mar 5, 2010

Oh, it's true. You are Brock Landers!
Salad Prong

WhiskeyJuvenile posted:

DC:

My wife's law firm was bought by another law firm. She had an accrued balance of annual leave. It seems to have disappeared into the ether. Something like $4000 in wages at stake.

I'd assume next step is to file a Office of Wage and Hour complaint against the old practice?

Difficulty level: Equity partners at old firm are now with the new firm.

What state

Ham Equity
Apr 16, 2013

The first thing we do, let's kill all the cars.
Grimey Drawer

xxEightxx posted:

What state

I think by "DC" he means Washington, D.C.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."
If DC is a leave=cash state, I would assume a clerical error and be patient. Law firms don't really gently caress with legally mandated leave (unless you take >2 weeks at a time).
She's not a lawyer IIRC?

Also, I love gubberment law because my union can fight this all for me.

Hot Dog Day #91
Jun 19, 2003

WJ: you know well enough that you gotta talk to the firms before filling any complaints, especially given your wife's status in the firm as support staff. But practically speaking, does she have a senior partner she works for that can and will go to bat for her if they get nasty?

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!
$4000 should be peanuts from a management point of view

Ham Equity
Apr 16, 2013

The first thing we do, let's kill all the cars.
Grimey Drawer

Phil Moscowitz posted:

$4000 should be peanuts from a management point of view
One would think, but having worked for a really lovely law firm...

Hot Dog Day #91
Jun 19, 2003

From the info WJ has dropped, that's about 3 weeks vacation for his wife, who worked at a decent sized firm.

WhiskeyJuvenile
Feb 15, 2002

by Nyc_Tattoo

nm posted:

If DC is a leave=cash state, I would assume a clerical error and be patient. Law firms don't really gently caress with legally mandated leave (unless you take >2 weeks at a time).

old office was tiny DC satellite of out of state firm, new firm is biglaw

I'm assuming old firm didn't think of DC labor law, then?

quote:

She's not a lawyer IIRC?

nope


quote:

Also, I love gubberment law because my union can fight this all for me.

yup

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.
Jones v. District Parking Managers, 268 A.2d 860 (D.C. App. 1970)
NRA v Ailes, 428 A.2d 816 (D.C. App. 1981)

SabinBlitz
May 19, 2015

Firm believer that muscles conquers all
Perhaps this is the thread to ask.

I got a speeding ticket today in Salem, Oregon. It's an 85 degree day, roads are dry, medium traffic at 3:16pm, just before traffic gets really heavy in the area I'm in. I had just picked up kids from daycare and was heading home. There is a big bridge I need to cross that ALWAYS clusterfucks starting at around 4pm or so. This was a 4 lane road. (2 going east, 2 going west, there is also a center lane that separates traffic.) I was in the right lane moving with the flow of traffic at about 35 (in a posted 30) and a city bus is up ahead, a few cars ahead of me speed up and merge left, I also fight my way into the left lane because on this road, the bus stops IN the right lane, blocking traffic. The bus stops every other block, it's a big loving hassle to sit behind, EVERYBODY piles into the left lane to get around this thing. So I speed up to get into the left lane and once I merge, I slow down, get ahead of the bus and merge back into the right lane after I pass the bus and reduce back down to 35. I do not remember how fast I went to merge left lane but I was moving only slightly faster than the flow of traffic and the guy that let me in only slowed down a tad to squeeze me in but nobody had to pump brakes or anything like that.

I get pulled over about a block after. The officer was nice and to the point. He ran my Drivers and Insurance. He told me because I have no prior tickets on my record, he'll give me the min fine of $160 per offence # 811.111. Exceeding Speeding 11 - 20 mpg excess with alleged speed of 49. The Officer did tell me that if I head down to the court house in a week, I can plead with the teller about my good driving history and most likely only have to pay a $80 ticket.
(I have a clean record, this is my my 3rd ticket in my entire life with my last ticket about 7-8 years ago for doing 75 in a 65 on a highway. I was able to deflect the fine by doing community service but that ticket was bullshit too since I was with the flow of traffic but whatever...)

So yes, I did speed but I know I was in control of the vehicle (2006 Acura MDX) and I was only going with the traffic and following what everybody else was doing, merging into the left lane to get around the city bus, there were people behind literally cutting other cars off to get in.

I'm a white male, 31, I had my 4 year old girl and 2 year old son in the car in their proper carseats/restraints. (When I got pulled over my daughter said: "Oh daddy... You in trouble...")

My court date is in 1 month. Any chance I can plead the above case and convince the Judge to throw this out or at least poss deflect ticket into community service? Or should I just go and pay the $80 to the court next week.

Thoughts? I'm living paycheck to paycheck, I would prefer NOT to pay this but I will if that's what it comes to.

Hot Dog Day #91
Jun 19, 2003

Hey man, that sucks. But you will 100% be better off paying $80 bucks and letting it be over and done with.

Fighting it means you will possibly have more time off work, and still wind up with a larger fine and a driving record hit.

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer
"I was speeding because..." Is a losing defense to speeding.

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

bone shaking.
soul baking.
Also quit being impatient and stop speeding.

EwokEntourage
Jun 10, 2008

BREYER: Actually, Antonin, you got it backwards. See, a power bottom is actually generating all the dissents by doing most of the work.

SCALIA: Stephen, I've heard that speed has something to do with it.

BREYER: Speed has everything to do with it.

EwokEntourage posted:

Pay the ticket

Am I correct this time?

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

blarzgh posted:

"I was speeding because..." Is a losing defense to speeding.

Especially when followed up with 'well I don't know by how much because I wasn't paying attention'

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HookShot
Dec 26, 2005
I like the part where he says he was in control of the vehicle then told us it was a ten year old Acura and not, say, a Soviet-era tank.


And also how his other previous speeding tickets were bullshit too.

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