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Digital Osmosis posted:Ratkin are objectively the best changing breed; they had auspices to play a rat of NIHM and to play an insane swashbuckling Baron Munchausen I've had it for a week and its thin in some places (entitlements, pledges, kiths) while filling out holes in others (trods, bedlam). Haven't had time to go through all the contracts and I'm confused how Elemental seeming benefits work when taught to non-Elementals- do you choose a set element at the time of being taught, is it always your teacher's type, or is it free-for-all?
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Aug 14, 2018 03:49
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Digital Osmosis posted:edit: By the way, anyone see any reviews for CtL 2E? I bought the physical book but not the pdf because I didn't know there would be like a year difference between their release dates, and I'm hungry for more information / wondering if I should just double-dip and buy the pdf. Did you do something weird through Backerkit? All the rewards on the Kickstarter that give you a physical book look like they give you a PDF, too. You might make sure you don't already have a coupon in your email.
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Aug 14, 2018 03:54
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Gerund posted:I've had it for a week and its thin in some places (entitlements, pledges, kiths) while filling out holes in others (trods, bedlam). Haven't had time to go through all the contracts and I'm confused how Elemental seeming benefits work when taught to non-Elementals- do you choose a set element at the time of being taught, is it always your teacher's type, or is it free-for-all? Not clear. I'd assume always your teacher's type, though?
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Aug 14, 2018 09:27
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Loomer posted:Oh, for sure. But in terms of the Impergium, the Ajaba are the best piece of evidence the Garou were loving morons. The Apis too, but of course, the Apis turned into tyrants who tore families apart and got what they deserved (have I posted my theory about it actually being the original fae that killed the Apis, actually?) I thought those guys just did forest maintainance, how did THAT justify wolf-induced genocide
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Aug 14, 2018 10:05
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The apis were the cows. But i dont remember seeing anything about them going bad
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Aug 14, 2018 10:25
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Nah, they got wrecked in the Near East trying to keep the Garou out of Africa, then their kin all got domesticated so they couldn't breed anymore and died out.
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Aug 14, 2018 10:26
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I suppose the last surviving one was the Minotaur?  I'd say having your descendants become What's For Dinner manages to be worse than just being killed off.
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Aug 14, 2018 10:29
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Even weirder. Apparently as a last gasp they made a mass run on the Deep Umbra to try and find a solution. The Minotaur is one who showed back up thousands of years later and lost his poo poo into perma-frenzy when he found out all the others were dead, even the Kin.
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Aug 14, 2018 10:31
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Gerund posted:I've had it for a week and its thin in some places (entitlements, pledges, kiths) while filling out holes in others (trods, bedlam). Haven't had time to go through all the contracts and I'm confused how Elemental seeming benefits work when taught to non-Elementals- do you choose a set element at the time of being taught, is it always your teacher's type, or is it free-for-all? I would have appreciated more kiths as 'come up with powers on your own' is troublesome to say the least.
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Aug 14, 2018 11:23
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The Apis met their end when mankind discovered gold could kill them and rose up against them c. 5000BC. The Garou only started kicking their heads in after mankind did.
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Aug 14, 2018 11:39
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Digital Osmosis posted:Ratkin are objectively the best changing breed; they had auspices to play a rat of NIHM and to play an insane swashbuckling Baron Munchausen What do you want to know about it?
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Aug 14, 2018 12:48
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Which Requiem book had the Methuselah who kept an underground rose garden full of the parasitized bodies of other vampires? I thought it was 1000 Years of Night but I can't find her in there.
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Aug 14, 2018 13:00
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Dawgstar posted:I would have appreciated more kiths as 'come up with powers on your own' is troublesome to say the least. A lot of Kiths got cut for space and are planned for the player's guide.
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Aug 14, 2018 13:09
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Which Requiem book had the Methuselah who kept an underground rose garden full of the parasitized bodies of other vampires? I thought it was 1000 Years of Night but I can't find her in there. Think it's Secrets of the Covenants, which introduces second edition's mandragora.
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Aug 14, 2018 13:16
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nofather posted:Think it's Secrets of the Covenants, which introduces second edition's mandragora. It is; thanks!
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Aug 14, 2018 13:25
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Pocky In My Pocket posted:The apis were the cows. But i dont remember seeing anything about them going bad They bred people like animals and oddly enough, mankind wasn't on board with the inhuman monsters telling them who they had to have sex with.
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Aug 14, 2018 14:56
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Digital Osmosis posted:Ratkin are objectively the best changing breed Quoting because this is the truth and doesn't get enough recognition.
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Aug 14, 2018 15:10
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Mors Rattus posted:A lot of Kiths got cut for space and are planned for the player's guide. Very good. I missed my Draconic.
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Aug 14, 2018 15:21
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I heard V5 finally released and have been seeing not great reception. I want to launch a game set on oWod - should I stick to V20/B&S with translation guide? Or V5 is not that bad?
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Aug 14, 2018 15:41
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Cable posted:I heard V5 finally released and have been seeing not great reception. I want to launch a game set on oWod - should I stick to V20/B&S with translation guide? Or V5 is not that bad? From reading this thread, V20 or Requiem would be the better option. Mostly because you don't have to give WW money. A few people have given reviews here but I don't think anyone has run V5 here yet.
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Aug 14, 2018 15:50
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:They bred people like animals and oddly enough, mankind wasn't on board with the inhuman monsters telling them who they had to have sex with. Yup. And when you consider as well the way that selective breeding actually works, the undertone is super horrifying on multiple levels. It's why I have my little 'alternate explanation' that ties the fae in.
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Aug 14, 2018 16:00
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Thread making me appreciate W:tF even more.
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Aug 14, 2018 16:08
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Pretty much everything in WtA is told through unreliable narrators who believe the myth that it was a golden age. The horror aspect is that it wasn't and these monsters hosed up not only their own system but the whole planet due to their hubris. In typical White Wolf fan fashion, people don't pick up on any of the subtext and think Werewolves are heroes.
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Aug 14, 2018 18:44
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Cable posted:I heard V5 finally released and have been seeing not great reception. I want to launch a game set on oWod - should I stick to V20/B&S with translation guide? Or V5 is not that bad? V5 has way better rules than Revised and V20, but it has serious issues with presentation, the setting is really bare and in terms of amount of content it is several steps back in relation to Revised's core. IMNHO. In comparison to Requiem, it does some things differently, but is surprisingly similar despite Swedish Dracula's posturing (TN of 6 and difficulty set by minimum successes instead of changing the dice available). I think the interesting stuff is the Hunger mechanic (instead of spending blood points you gain hunger dice, which can modify results to represent the Beast's influence), new Humanity (you set it by chronicle theme and per character, so you can adjust it for the tone you intend for your game) and the Loresheets (merits that connect a PC to metaplot elements and characters, which I feel really plays up to the strengths of Masquerade's setting). It also has some interesting stuff for Coteries and Predator archetypes. If you're doing an oWOD game I suggest you stick to B&S with the translation guide for the missing disciplines and the setting as it is presented in V20, but if you don't mind giving WW the cash there's some interesting mechanics you can grab from V5. I am definitely adding the above stuff when I do my own MasqueRequiem game later in the year. ZearothK fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Aug 14, 2018 |
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Aug 14, 2018 19:19
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Gerund posted:I've had it for a week and its thin in some places (entitlements, pledges, kiths) while filling out holes in others (trods, bedlam). Haven't had time to go through all the contracts and I'm confused how Elemental seeming benefits work when taught to non-Elementals- do you choose a set element at the time of being taught, is it always your teacher's type, or is it free-for-all? Agreed, pledges in particular could have used some serious fleshing out. It seems like they removed the vast majority of the mechanical benefits from pledges, which is a shame - there's nothing about using them to grant or obtain backgrounds, or make dream pacts, or any of the benefits of fealty. Now they have a handful of minor benefits, a list of sample consequences for breaking your word, and nothing further.
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Aug 14, 2018 22:29
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The mechanics overall aren't bad, and have some discrete chunks that have already been mentioned in answer to your question that can be mined. The xp system as written is the biggest regressive mechanical element I noticed, where RAW its even slower on advancement than classic world of darkness was, using exponential xp costs but stingier on awards. Its not super hard to change or anything, but it is still annoying. Most of the negativity comes from the setting and presentation. IMO the book is ugly as gently caress and has layout that varies from "annoying" in some parts to "classic illegible bullshit" in others. The art itself isn't necessarily poorly done, but there's not much coherency to it, and IMO the attempts to show fashionable kindred mostly end up looking hilariously stupid. In terms of actual setting material, I found the it mostly just sparse, bland, and stylistically superficial, which certainly fit the other fiction nuWW has released so far. It tries to change up the setting with a second inquisition and events that put the sabbat and most elders out of the equation in your standard game (at least to start), but it does so in a very ham-fisted way with a lot of bits that seem very contrived. It comes across to me like what it is: one of a billion superficial homebrew/"I'm gonna fix Vampire" ideas that you'd run across in larps and on message boards throughout the oWoD tenure. Only this one managed to buy the property and make his hackneyed ideas "canon".
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Aug 14, 2018 22:36
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Just popping in to say that I like the new mechanics in Requiem 2e, but the writing style is worse than any White Wolf corebook I've seen outside of Beast. I don't know why they thought "Sex, smug, and unbelievably tryhard" was the tone they should go for. The in-character writing comes across like somebody trying to be the coolest kid in Les Vampyres Tavern chatroom on AOL.
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Aug 15, 2018 14:24
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Confession: I've been into WW poo poo since around oWoD second edition. Barring a very few exceptions (any of the werewolf comics, the opening to CtD 2E) I've always skipped right over the fiction. I have nothing against WoD fiction, I read a chunk of that huge clan-based novel series. And when information is presented in character (like say Clanbook: Mekhet) I'll sometimes read it. I have no idea why I'll read a stupid vampire novel series and not read a stupid vampire short story, especially considering I love short stories, but the pages spent on fiction in WoD sourcebooks have always been something I found mildly annoying.
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Aug 15, 2018 15:30
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WW fiction has occasionally been great, but it's more frequently been bad, so I often just ignore it unless I heard from somebody else that it's worth reading that bit. Scion 2e, incidentally, has some really great fiction written by Kieron Gillian of The Wicked and the Divine, which people aren't talking about as much as I expected.
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Aug 15, 2018 15:33
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Greg Stolze wrote a Demon: The Fallen novel trilogy which helped me get Demon way more than the core ever did.
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Aug 15, 2018 15:37
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Nigel D. Findley was a treasure; too bad he didn't do much writing for White Wolf.
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Aug 15, 2018 15:40
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Halloween Jack posted:The in-character writing comes across like somebody trying to be the coolest kid in Les Vampyres Tavern chatroom on AOL. This seems sort of in theme for Vampire, at least.
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Aug 15, 2018 15:49
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Halloween Jack posted:Nigel D. Findley was a treasure; too bad he didn't do much writing for White Wolf. That's a name I mostly know from Shadowrun. Good writer.
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Aug 15, 2018 15:51
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For anyone that did pick up V5, I just noticed they added a V5 quickstart to my PDF inventory. Not sure if that came with the core book. Anyway it's 43 pages with pregens and a lot of reading material, looks like enough to start up a game. Called "The Monsters". “The Monster(s)” is an atypical murder mystery, in that the protagonists will not solve a “whodunnit?”. Instead, they will be confronted by their own natures as they unravel the mystery behind the murders. Each section has a 'rules in this chapter' bit and introduces mechanics along the way. ritorix fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Aug 15, 2018 |
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Aug 15, 2018 16:06
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The Tzimisce novel is probably the worst book I've read in my life. I always skip the fiction in OPP/WW books unless there are several people talking about how good it is.
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Aug 15, 2018 16:13
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It may just be me, but that sounds exactly like any murder mystery I've ever played. Will there be spinach and artichoke dip be served? Because that would be the biggest difference for me. The in-book fiction has been mostly not memorable for me. Every once in a while there's one that sticks (like the in-chapter fiction from Seers of the Throne).
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Aug 15, 2018 16:22
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Halloween Jack posted:Nigel D. Findley was a treasure; too bad he didn't do much writing for White Wolf. I still smile every time I see the word 'jander.' His characters liked to jander.
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Aug 15, 2018 17:05
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To be clear, my issue isn't just with the "fiction" in 2e but any time it slips into the role of a person addressing you, the reader. Like "Poor baby. There’s you. There’s me. And there’re some folks who are dying to meet you…" and that's one of the less  examples.
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Aug 15, 2018 17:08
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Night10194 posted:This seems sort of in theme for Vampire, at least. I honestly love the way Requiem 2E reads. Not because the complaints are wrong, but because that desperate, over-extended, trying-too-hard flavor is exactly the point. That's what vampires are. They get to magically bamboozle mortals into believing their sexy/spooky bullshit, but convincing yourself and each other is another story.
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Aug 15, 2018 17:13
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ZearothK posted:The Tzimisce novel is probably the worst book I've read in my life. Is that the one where the Toreador signature character uses the power of fashion to defeat the tzimisce who captured her? And by "uses the power of fashion", I mean "dresses like a moron in a top hat and catsuit, which somehow makes the tzimisce horny enough she can kill him with a machinegun". I vaguely recall there was one or two of the clan novels that at least rose to the level of mediocre game fiction, but some of them were just hilariously stupid.
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Aug 15, 2018 17:30
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