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Kild posted:idk how you can hate her more than endeavor
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Mar 26, 2018 00:57
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Honestly, I don't know what to make of Koichi's mom at this point and I wouldn't be surprised if when she shows up next she'll be a little different because holy poo poo that was tonally bizarre. It was like if they played Todoroki's family life for laughs.
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Mar 26, 2018 04:06
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PMush Perfect posted:Endeavor's recent realizations that he's an absolute shithead have softened me on him just a little bit. Not a lot, but enough that 'hit a baby every day until he stopped using his quirk' manages to edge out. meh, I think participating in eugenics and wife beating puts him a step ahead in the "worst parent" category
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Mar 26, 2018 04:18
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Endeavor now has the same problem that Bakugo has currently: Initial impressions have done quite a bit to diminish any interest in later redemptions.
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Mar 26, 2018 04:48
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PMush Perfect posted:Endeavor's recent realizations that he's an absolute shithead have softened me on him just a little bit. Not a lot, but enough that 'hit a baby every day until he stopped using his quirk' manages to edge out. ugh i really hope there isn't a redemption arc for the fire rapist
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Mar 26, 2018 04:52
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Vigilantes is like a mirror version of My Hero Academia, in that while My Hero Academia focuses on what drives people to excel for the sake of helping other people, Vigilantes has a lot of scenes, like the one where the kid walks away holding bee-girl's hand, which focus on societal forces holding people back
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Mar 26, 2018 04:55
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Yinlock posted:ugh i really hope there isn't a redemption arc for the fire rapist Agreed.
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Mar 26, 2018 05:32
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Shinjobi posted:Endeavor now has the same problem that Bakugo has currently:  but... he hasn't done anything to redeem himself yet.Bakugo's gone through a lot and has earned his place on the "not a shithead" list, while Endeavor... well he's said he should do better but he's both got a lot more poo poo he needs to own up to and has done basically none of it yet. galenanorth posted:Vigilantes is like a mirror version of My Hero Academia, in that while My Hero Academia focuses on what drives people to excel for the sake of helping other people, Vigilantes has a lot of scenes, like the one where the kid walks away holding bee-girl's hand, which focus on societal forces holding people back That's the basic premise of the comic, that "Vigilantes" are basically heroes without societal acceptance. SatansBestBuddy fucked around with this message at 05:51 on Mar 26, 2018 |
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Mar 26, 2018 05:48
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Yinlock posted:ugh i really hope there isn't a redemption arc for the fire rapist I don't think he is a rapist. Uncaring and abusive in the past however is true. Shinjobi posted:Endeavor now has the same problem that Bakugo has currently: People are shockingly unwilling to forgive anything. Fun fact I don't think Endeavor has done a single awful thing in the present. The stuff we were shown in the past of him being abusive namely his harsh training of 5 year old Shoto and knocking his wife away when she tried to stop him was more then 10 years ago in story. And there has been zero indication that he still does stuff like that. Combined with the fact that after his meeting with All Might he has expressed genuine interest in healing his relationship with Shoto. SatansBestBuddy posted:
I don't even think 10 chapters have passed since Endeavor realized he wanted to fix his relationship with his family.
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Mar 26, 2018 05:51
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MonsterEnvy posted:Fun fact I don't think Endeavor has done a single awful thing in the present. 
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Mar 26, 2018 05:52
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Name one thing he has done in the present that has been bad. Honestly if we never saw Todoroki's flashback I don't even think the guy would be hatable. (Of course this is not to down sell the lovely stuff he did in the past. Cause he did do lovely stuff in the past which is what made him hateble.) MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 05:56 on Mar 26, 2018 |
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Mar 26, 2018 05:54
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Shinjobi posted:Endeavor now has the same problem that Bakugo has currently: I think that's kind of unfair to the characters - and even the writer. Bakugo was a massive poo poo when he first appeared. And he's been routinely humbled since, justly. He's also very much a product of his environment where he was raised by the system he was in, and celebrated by the people around him as the best. As far as we know, he's never been punished for his attitude and actions towards other students like Deku either considering how even the teacher got in on that poo poo. Remember, they're still kids at that point. If we were shown him continually being rewarded for his attitude and behavior post-UA then yeah, that'd be a problem. But we haven't. Every step of the way he's been told that as powerful as his quirk is, he's loving up on every other front and his ego monster poo poo didn't fly in front of teachers that took their job seriously. Endeavor was an adult who made intentional decisions and took deliberate actions to harm and abuse other people. He did this out of spite for another person and to soothe his own damaged ego. Bakugo has, slowly, been redeemed for his first appearance. He's been proved wrong, and it's been shown that people don't actually like him as much as we were led to believe. That the way he acted put himself, and everyone, in more harm than it ever did good. But the environment that encouraged him to act that way was what led him to believe he was correct. He's been changing and growing like every other main character. Compare that to Endeavor who, as far as we know, spent the majority of his adult life being a reprehensible jackass without any desire to change despite an entire backstory to do so. In short; Yinlock posted:ugh i really hope there isn't a redemption arc for the fire rapist But Bakugou has been improving.
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Mar 26, 2018 05:57
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Some key differences here are that Horikoshi, with Bakugo, is probably going "Ehhh, let's maybe all forget about him suggesting Deku commit suicide." It's a retcon of a bit of the first chapter. With Endeavor it doesn't seem to be redemption so much as he's trying to salvage some measure of a relationship with his son. Basically, on the road from having a "horrific" relationship to maybe one day having a "complex" relationship, at best. At least, it's my hope that he isn't heading for your typical shonen redemption.
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Mar 26, 2018 05:58
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pretty sure by present he means since the story actually started, which is kinda true. he's a dick a lot of the time but he hasn't done anything like todoroki's flashbacks outside of said flashbacksYinlock posted:ugh i really hope there isn't a redemption arc for the fire rapist he's bad but that's not something that's ever even implied
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Mar 26, 2018 05:58
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He married a woman against her will by forcing her family to let him do so. And then forced her bear children for him.
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Mar 26, 2018 06:04
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Mr. Fowl posted:Some key differences here are that Horikoshi, with Bakugo, is probably going "Ehhh, let's maybe all forget about him suggesting Deku commit suicide." It's a retcon of a bit of the first chapter.
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Mar 26, 2018 06:07
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Hate-Senpai posted:He married a woman against her will by forcing her family to let him do so. And then forced her bear children for him. a woman who, by the way, hates him so much that she had a nervous breakdown and harmed her own child because he was starting to look more like his father Yinlock fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Mar 26, 2018 |
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Mar 26, 2018 06:10
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Nuebot posted:But Bakugou has been improving. Bakugou is a total piece of poo poo but at least he hasn't crossed the line to irredeemable I mean I doubt he will ever ask for Deku's forgiveness and I doubt Deku will ever forgive him, but they can at least work together sometimes and Bakugou's desire to be a hero is genuine even if it's for a selfish reason
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Mar 26, 2018 06:16
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I don't know how we got from "I have a more personal connection to the terrible things Koichi's mom has done" to "Endeavor did nothing wrong", but I'm sorry for my part in it. How about that Knuckleduster, huh?
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Mar 26, 2018 06:17
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nobody said he did nothing wrong
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Mar 26, 2018 06:19
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MonsterEnvy posted:Name one thing he has done in the present that has been bad. Honestly if we never saw Todoroki's flashback I don't even think the guy would be hatable. (Of course this is not to down sell the lovely stuff he did in the past. Cause he did do lovely stuff in the past which is what made him hateble.) i don't think the lack of crimes in the present means that past crimes suddenly don't exist but even if we discount his past for some stupid reason he's still an emotionally abusive control-freak shithead e: I actually don't mind Endveaour as a character because he's a super hateable dude that the audience is expected to hate, that's fine I just don't want any kind of redemption for him Yinlock fucked around with this message at 06:23 on Mar 26, 2018 |
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Mar 26, 2018 06:20
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SatansBestBuddy posted:
I know, but do you at least feel like the series is trying to soften him at the very least? Like, if it ended today the Endeavor character arc would be "rear end in a top hat---->rear end in a top hat." But I dunno, I can't shake the feeling that the series is trying to get him somewhere closer to someone tolerable. EDIT: For what it's worth, I'm not even saying that I don't enjoy reading about the trials and tribulations of Todoroki's family. It's a complicated upbringing, which I can definitely relate to. And I fully expect to see Endeavor show us more of who he is beyond what we've been told up to this point. But at no point would I really feel comfortable with an about-face with his attitude. I think he's more than just an rear end in a top hat, but by the end of the series I would prefer to still see that aspect of his character remain. So yeah, no turning Vegeta/Frieza into a begrudging sidekick, ya know? Just wouldn't quite feel right in this series. Bakugo is learning as he goes. I don't know if we'll ever see mention of his harsher childhood moments, but it'd be nice to see something get hashed out there. Shinjobi fucked around with this message at 06:31 on Mar 26, 2018 |
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Mar 26, 2018 06:25
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Yinlock posted:i don't think the lack of crimes in the present means that past crimes suddenly don't exist I never said the past crimes don't exist. I am just saying if we did not know about the past events. I doubt anyone of use would hate him. Throughout the present of the story he has not done anything awful or abusive.
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Mar 26, 2018 06:25
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Yinlock posted:Bakugou is a total piece of poo poo but at least he hasn't crossed the line to irredeemable I don't think he'll ask Deku's forgiveness but Deku would totally forgive him if he did.
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Mar 26, 2018 06:30
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Endeavor literally exists as a wrinkle in the idea of a symbol of peace. He wouldn't exist if he didn't have some maddeningly unattainable goal to achieve in surpassing All Might. He's meant to show you that All Might had just as much of an effect on heroes as he did on villians. He's interesting in that way, and deserves some screen time, but you're definitely not supposed to like him and he can't be redeemed from the things he has done. I think him grappling with the poo poo he did in the past and why his son hates him is pretty good storytelling, but I doubt it's setting up some tasteless redemption arc. Honestly, Endeavor achieving #1 with a permanent asterisk next to it (and everyone sort of offhandedly mentioning it as a footnote) was pretty cathartic, and bound to make him think some poo poo through. He hasn't had a character arc yet because he really couldn't so long as he still had All Might to chase.
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Mar 26, 2018 06:34
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^^^ What Shere said.Shinjobi posted:I know, but do you at least feel like the series is trying to soften him at the very least? Like, if it ended today the Endeavor character arc would be "rear end in a top hat---->rear end in a top hat." But I dunno, I can't shake the feeling that the series is trying to get him somewhere closer to someone tolerable. My point is that saying he wants to be a better hero and acting on that idea are two different things. He's had a talk with All Might recently that points to him wanting to improve, but that's been it. MonsterEnvy posted:I don't even think 10 chapters have passed since Endeavor realized he wanted to fix his relationship with his family. Yes. That's my point. His last appearance had him talking, but not doing. He has yet to do. There is more to do after he's done talking and he hasn't done it yet. And until then he's gonna be stuck on the shithead list. I mean gently caress he wasn't even talking to his kid or his wife he was talking to All Might and the only reason he felt at all comfortable doing that is because All Might is retired now.
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Mar 26, 2018 06:34
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MonsterEnvy's post only makes sense from the shounen lens of "well Vegeta hasn't murdered anybody this arc so,"
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Mar 26, 2018 07:02
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I don't think Vegeta has murdered anyone at all in any arc of Boku no Hero Academia so far.
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Mar 26, 2018 07:03
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Rhonne posted:I don't think he'll ask Deku's forgiveness but Deku would totally forgive him if he did. if bakugou asked deku's forgiveness he wouldn't be bakugou i kinda like that they just straight-up cannot stand one-another though e: Shere posted:Endeavor literally exists as a wrinkle in the idea of a symbol of peace. He wouldn't exist if he didn't have some maddeningly unattainable goal to achieve in surpassing All Might. He's meant to show you that All Might had just as much of an effect on heroes as he did on villians. the main point i'm trying to get at is that i don't want him to have a character arc, i just want him to get beat up and then a bird poops on him for being bad and evil Yinlock fucked around with this message at 07:14 on Mar 26, 2018 |
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Mar 26, 2018 07:11
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Eej posted:MonsterEnvy's post only makes sense from the shounen lens of "well Vegeta hasn't murdered anybody this arc so," Nah it's more like if we were introduced to Vegeta from super, and only told of some of his actions back in Z through short flashbacks.
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Mar 26, 2018 07:15
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I don't think Endeavor's crimes are irredeemable, but I'm pretty soft-hearted and a huge believer in rehabilitation. I would say it's up to Shoto, his mom, and the rest of his family whether or not Endeavor gets any form of "redemption" for what he did, since they're the ones he wronged; without earning forgiveness from his victims, there's no way for him to achieve it. The way Shoto has been written so far I strongly doubt he's ever going to actually forgive his father so much as learn to live with him - which is not the same thing at all - so Endeavor will probably go unredeemed.
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Mar 26, 2018 07:41
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Kanos posted:I don't think Endeavor's crimes are irredeemable, but I'm pretty soft-hearted and a huge believer in rehabilitation. I would say it's up to Shoto, his mom, and the rest of his family whether or not Endeavor gets any form of "redemption" for what he did, since they're the ones he wronged; without earning forgiveness from his victims, there's no way for him to achieve it. That is pretty much my view. Down to the being soft hearted and rehabilitation believer.
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Mar 26, 2018 07:54
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endeavor is the #1 hero
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Mar 26, 2018 09:20
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Yinlock posted:the main point i'm trying to get at is that i don't want him to have a character arc, i just want him to get beat up and then a bird poops on him for being bad and evil What is better: having Endeavor get beat up and pooped on once, or him realizing that his entire life's work, his ambition, his dream ended up pretty much falling into his lap and that all of the crazy, murky-grey dark crap he got up to had absolutely no bearing on him achieving it? And then having to live with the realization of what he did and the ramifications of those actions for the rest of his life. Sometimes redemption doesn't end in forgiveness. Sometimes it ends in lifelong suffering and stigma. Often with polite (read 'i'm saying this because i am socially expected to not because i actually mean it') forgiveness. Or in shorter words, wouldn't you rather Endeavor get beat up and pooped on metaphorically for the entire rest of his life rather than it actually happening just once? To bring this back around to the original point, I don't like what Todoroki's mom did but I can understand the why she did it. A baby that can fly is an absolutely terrifying thing to a loving parent, especially a baby who hasn't figured out what terminally stupid poo poo is yet in order to not do it. Emphasis on terminal IE 'doing this will probably kill you so don't do it.' There's really no good answer for that.
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Mar 26, 2018 10:05
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Kanos posted:I don't think Endeavor's crimes are irredeemable, but I'm pretty soft-hearted and a huge believer in rehabilitation. I would say it's up to Shoto, his mom, and the rest of his family whether or not Endeavor gets any form of "redemption" for what he did, since they're the ones he wronged; without earning forgiveness from his victims, there's no way for him to achieve it. I mean, Shoto isn't a real person so it's not up to him to do anything. Personally I think Horikoshi is walking a real fine line with the recent attempts at making Endevour not such a shithead. He's a thousand times worse than Bakugo ever was and I know that for me any attempt at redeeming him or having Shoto or his mom forgive him will fall flat. I think it's a pretty disgusting message to try and push and no I don't see why it matters at all that he was 'only' terrible in flashbacks. He's the worst character in the series and should be treated like it. I joked a few pages ago about Dabi being revealed as his son and then killing him but I do genuinely think thats the best thing that could happen to the character. Writing a character as an absolutely despicable, abusive scumbag and then just having him say sorry and it all be forgiven is frankly offensive writing. Don't be Naruto.
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Mar 26, 2018 10:19
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MonsterEnvy posted:Name one thing he has done in the present that has been bad. Honestly if we never saw Todoroki's flashback I don't even think the guy would be hatable. (Of course this is not to down sell the lovely stuff he did in the past. Cause he did do lovely stuff in the past which is what made him hateble.) he straight up murdered that nomu by burning it to death.
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Mar 26, 2018 11:49
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Once again, we return to the seminal question: Is it better to be redeemed, or to be good from the very beginning?
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Mar 26, 2018 11:51
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anime has ruined the word redeemed
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Mar 26, 2018 14:22
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Speaking of anime and words, how about that deconstruction, fellas?
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Mar 26, 2018 14:26
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Kild posted:he straight up murdered that nomu by burning it to death. Considering how a nomu is created, I think the better term is put it out of its misery.
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Mar 26, 2018 14:36
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