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V. Illych L. posted:i'm not a fan of central bankers constantly saying how we need to stop having wage increases to keep interest rates down tbh isn't the whole point of trepartssamarbeidet that wages will never increase beyond what's sustainable/possible for the sectors anyway? the way these cunts in sentralbanken, banking in general and economy journalists speak, completely undermines that whole arrangement. if I was conspiratorially inclined, I'd say something to the effect of "I guess that's their real agenda"
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May 11, 2024 16:35
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ulvir posted:isn't the whole point of trepartssamarbeidet that wages will never increase beyond what's sustainable/possible for the sectors anyway? the way these cunts in sentralbanken, banking in general and economy journalists speak, completely undermines that whole arrangement. It's not much of a conspiracy theory when there's a uniform, coordinated push by a unified class of professional bankers that aren't and have never been aligned with anything remotely like the poor and/or the working class at any point in the history of civilization. Like they aren't even hiding it.
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May 11, 2024 17:05
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Didn't EU or some EU related entity just do an official investigation into the current wave of massive inflation and conclude that it has nothing at all to do with wages and everything to do with corporate greed?
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May 11, 2024 17:22
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SplitSoul posted:PolitikenDiff: Oh, they did it again.  Guess nobody questions Israel's moral superiority after the editors make their pass.
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May 12, 2024 13:22
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ulvir posted:isn't the whole point of trepartssamarbeidet that wages will never increase beyond what's sustainable/possible for the sectors anyway? the way these cunts in sentralbanken, banking in general and economy journalists speak, completely undermines that whole arrangement. to be fair to the central bank people all they have is monetary policy and a mandate to keep inflation at an absurdly low level. at that point, everything starts looking like a nail. my impression is quite simply that norwegian social economists are not really taught how the social economy of norway and the rest of scandinavia has been set up to work, relying rather on a US-based neoclassical doctine heavily influenced by monetarism. this means that every economist is effectively trained to be fundamentally opposed to the basic structure of the nordic class compromise
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May 13, 2024 21:22
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i still don't fully understand why we all just sort of accept that monetary policy should be completely siloed off from fiscal policy, or that purchasing power in the form of cheap debt is better than purchasing power in the form of wages. i only know for sure that i will never ask a norwegian economist less than sixty years old to explain it to me, for they are basically a bunch of traitors
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May 13, 2024 21:26
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V. Illych L. posted:to be fair to the central bank people all they have is monetary policy and a mandate to keep inflation at an absurdly low level. at that point, everything starts looking like a nail. my impression is quite simply that norwegian social economists are not really taught how the social economy of norway and the rest of scandinavia has been set up to work, relying rather on a US-based neoclassical doctine heavily influenced by monetarism. this means that every economist is effectively trained to be fundamentally opposed to the basic structure of the nordic class compromise the central bank is one thing, but then you have journalists who decide to walk in step and not question the premise that a moderate raise, well within the predictions that Norges bank themselves made prior, should somehow topple the entire oh so fragile balance. I don’t expect more from the investors that pop up constantly, not even from that ponytailed guy who pretended to be a staunch social democrat in an interview. I guess that’s on me, too. it’s increasingly apparent that most journalists in the daily papers aren’t about speaking truth to power, they’re just there to hold the microphone, but I still can’t let go of how I want journalism to be.
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May 14, 2024 10:03
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ulvir posted:isn't the whole point of trepartssamarbeidet that wages will never increase beyond what's sustainable/possible for the sectors anyway? the way these cunts in sentralbanken, banking in general and economy journalists speak, completely undermines that whole arrangement. The biggest reason for how bad it is now (and have been for the past 3 decades) is because the "front fagene" (export businesses) get to negotiate first as a baseline for the rest of us. Problem is that it's always a part left to "local negotiations", and the "front fag" gets these while others usually gets a lot less in local negotiations. Also, the export business is doing great when the krone is worth less - so the offer we got this year isn't very good, despite what they all say. Class Unity is dead
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May 14, 2024 10:10
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l teach high school pupils for a living, so i’m not exactly thrilled with how frontfagsmodellen is practiced in the public sector, but the ideal of it is solid, and on the whole is a net positive
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May 14, 2024 10:38
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ulvir posted:l teach high school pupils for a living, so i’m not exactly thrilled with how frontfagsmodellen is practiced in the public sector, but the ideal of it is solid, and on the whole is a net positive Oh, the ideal is great. Just like communism in the USSR It doesn't work because the oil workers are selfish and not willing to go on strike for the rest of us
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May 14, 2024 11:07
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I'm seeing double: four Satans!
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May 14, 2024 11:50
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So, who will be the first to leave NATO? Do last in, last out rules apply here?
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May 14, 2024 15:06
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Why would anyone leave?
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May 14, 2024 15:09
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Rappaport posted:Why would anyone leave? Unwillingness to prop up the American defence industry with 2% of GDP? I maintain that an EU military would and should make NATO obsolete, but I'm not exactly in the majority with this opinion. Especially as a Dane.
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May 14, 2024 15:21
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They'd need to spend more than 2% GDP to go so, and there's only so much domestic military production capacity in the EU 
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May 14, 2024 15:41
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BonHair posted:Unwillingness to prop up the American defence industry with 2% of GDP? This was the Finnish opinion for a long time, but for their own reasons GERMANIA chose not to go along with this idea. And now it is moot since Russia has engaged a genocidal war and we're all in NATO now.
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May 14, 2024 16:20
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Rappaport posted:Why would anyone leave? Unwillingness to bomb countries into open air slave markets on behalf of Al-Qaeda, again?
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May 14, 2024 17:32
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SplitSoul posted:Unwillingness to bomb countries into open air slave markets on behalf of Al-Qaeda, again? I hate to be the guy, but it seems I have to be the guy. I have some sad news for you when it comes to Uffe and bombing.
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May 14, 2024 17:35
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Anders posted:Oh, the ideal is great. Just like communism in the USSR tbf if the petroleum sector tried to strike it'd be broken before you could say "tvungen lønnsnemnd". last year, increased military expenditure ate up a lot of the "glidning" and caused a disproportionately favourable gross outcome for the state as a sector, which means that we're considered to have had a good round of negotiations. ime it's really fellesforbundet (so the electrochemical workers, service workers and construction sector) who really have to want to do a confrontation to increase the general frame. this is all combined with a seemingly very optimistic teknisk beregningsutvalg liking to be very moderate about the rate of price increase projection. i haven't got the impression that IE is typically been the outliers in salary negotiations - pr e.g. https://www.ssb.no/arbeid-og-lonn/lonn-og-arbeidskraftkostnader/statistikk/lonn/artikler/manedslonnen-okte-med-3-200-kr it's especially the finance industry which has been breaking the "ramme". the problem with fronfaget in norway today is that municipal employees basically have no negotiating power, so they keep dropping off and when they try to strike they just get starved out
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May 14, 2024 18:08
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re: NATO it really is creepy to me that people seem so blithely happy about having it as official policy that they would rather see the world disappear in atomic fire than lose a war
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May 14, 2024 18:10
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V. Illych L. posted:re: NATO it really is creepy to me that people seem so blithely happy about having it as official policy that they would rather see the world disappear in atomic fire than lose a war Aren't you Norwegian?
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May 14, 2024 18:15
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V. Illych L. posted:tbf if the petroleum sector tried to strike it'd be broken before you could say "tvungen lønnsnemnd". And under what pretense could the government do that? It wouldn't hold up in Haag and would lead to a lot of ILO boycotts of Norwegian business Tvungen lønnsnemnd can only be used when it's a threat to health and safety, or puts a significant portion of the population in danger The simple answer is that they get significant increases in local negotiations while the rest of the work force don't. This discrepancy has gone on steadily for decades widening the gap It's been good for the government, corporations, and some export workers, while the rest of us has gotten a slightly smaller piece of the cake year after year
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May 14, 2024 18:48
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Anders posted:Tvungen lønnsnemnd can only be used when it's a threat to health and safety, or puts a significant portion of the population in danger Like with the teachers strike, or what? They can use this poo poo whenever they want, and they do.
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May 14, 2024 18:59
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Anders posted:And under what pretense could the government do that? It wouldn't hold up in Haag and would lead to a lot of ILO boycotts of Norwegian business you tell me, it seems like the government managed to get by ILO without problems on their last two tvungen lønnsnemd-stunts (shut down the strike across the whole public sector because there was a regular garbage can that was someplace with lots of sun, pretending that teachers had sole responsibility for pupils (mental) health, whether or not their parents had enough time and resources to follow up on them, or what kids and youths did outside of school).
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May 14, 2024 19:05
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The difference is that teachers and health care workers are in the public sector where the two previous criterias are valid. ILO aren't happy with tvungen lønnsnemnd, but they accept it because LO accepts it. LO would not accept it being used against export industries
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May 14, 2024 19:07
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Rappaport posted:Aren't you Norwegian? yes. part of the benefit of this is that we have had this precise discussion every couple of decades since the inception of nato, to the point where it once launched a fairly prominent party as a single issue Anders posted:The difference is that teachers and health care workers are in the public sector where the two previous criterias are valid. ILO aren't happy with tvungen lønnsnemnd, but they accept it because LO accepts it. LO would not accept it being used against export industries the security guards would like to say hello
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May 14, 2024 19:09
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it's a complete fairy tale to imagine that an effective petroleum shutdown wouldn't see some kind of effect arise that could formally trigger tvungen lønnsnemnd. somewhere along the line the government would be able to say "ah! liv og helse! back to work, peons". see, for instance, https://www.tu.no/artikler/tvungen-lonnsnemnd-i-oljestreiken/520802 which wasn't even a whole thing
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May 14, 2024 19:12
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V. Illych L. posted:yes. part of the benefit of this is that we have had this precise discussion every couple of decades since the inception of nato, to the point where it once launched a fairly prominent party as a single issue I'm certain it is a pain upon you, but it might amaze you to know that Norway's NATO allegiance was something of a displeasure on Finland
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May 14, 2024 19:33
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Listen, hear me out now. What if we simply ignored tvungen lønnsnemnd?
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May 14, 2024 19:34
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Nice piece of fish posted:Listen, hear me out now. Or replaced it with tvungen ledelsesnemd?
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May 14, 2024 19:42
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Nice piece of fish posted:Listen, hear me out now. Also this
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May 14, 2024 20:08
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Rappaport posted:I'm certain it is a pain upon you, but it might amaze you to know that Norway's NATO allegiance was something of a displeasure on Finland i'm sure it was! i'm equally sure that it has not been for at least twenty years
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May 14, 2024 20:28
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like, rappaport, i'm not sure what you're getting at but i do not consider nato a good thing for norway, finland or, indeed, the world and have been pretty vocal about this position on several occasions
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May 14, 2024 20:29
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V. Illych L. posted:re: NATO it really is creepy to me that people seem so blithely happy about having it as official policy that they would rather see the world disappear in atomic fire than lose a war
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May 14, 2024 20:45
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But we'd be freed from shitposting... 
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May 14, 2024 20:50
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Wibla posted:But we'd be freed from shitposting... Wibla knows a lot about doomsday
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May 14, 2024 21:46
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A Buttery Pastry posted:The world wouldn't disappear if we had a nuclear war. true; a regrettably anthropocentric slip from my part
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May 14, 2024 21:57
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V. Illych L. posted:like, rappaport, i'm not sure what you're getting at but i do not consider nato a good thing for norway, finland or, indeed, the world and have been pretty vocal about this position on several occasions We are in agreement, then.
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May 15, 2024 01:33
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Wibla posted:They'd need to spend more than 2% GDP to go so, and there's only so much domestic military production capacity in the EU there would need to be some big initial investments but if the production was run by state armories instead of the dysfuctional private run production we have right now it could be done pretty cheaply
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May 15, 2024 02:57
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It's impossible to separate NATO from the USA, but the latter is definitely the problem, while the former is just their instrument to control their vassals. I don't think NATO is good or bad, maybe not even really meaningful, but getting the EU tangled out of American interests would be very good, and replacing NATO with a European defence force is a way to do that.
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May 15, 2024 06:13
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