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Palladium
May 8, 2012

Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️

well america can fight a million wars, as long as he is sipping lattes blaming the guys in the trenches stabbing him in the back behind a screen in whitest suburbia

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Nix Panicus
Feb 25, 2007

gimme the GOD drat candy posted:

the us wouldn't do that on their own behalf

The market has determined that the US already has the optimal number of tanks. Who are you to question the wisdom of markets?

CN CREW-VESSEL
Feb 1, 2024

敌人磨刀我们也磨刀

Nix Panicus posted:

The market has determined that the US already has the optimal number of tanks. Who are you to question the wisdom of markets?

I am slowly becoming the joker because of this web module I have to do this week











But imagine it's a tank, and the big assignment is "war with Russia"

nomad2020
Jan 30, 2007

What I learned is that I can charge more for tanks if I wait until all the other tank machines close for the night.

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007
but what if.... we charged a premium for tanks and then didn't bother to supply them? it's pure profit!

Bar Crow
Oct 10, 2012
Interesting! You can be tormented into paying more.

Gripweed
Nov 8, 2018

CN CREW-VESSEL posted:

I am slowly becoming the joker because of this web module I have to do this week











But imagine it's a tank, and the big assignment is "war with Russia"

It's like that joke of walking past a business class and seeing the professor write "Profits=income-costs" on the whiteboard and all the students diligently taking notes.

sum
Nov 15, 2010

CN CREW-VESSEL posted:

I am slowly becoming the joker because of this web module I have to do this week











But imagine it's a tank, and the big assignment is "war with Russia"

It's kind of funny to come up with a mathematical model of economic activity by massively simplifying human behavior, and then quiz people's "understanding of economics" by how they say their behavior would match their model. And they call Marxists unscientific!

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

CN CREW-VESSEL posted:

I am slowly becoming the joker because of this web module I have to do this week











But imagine it's a tank, and the big assignment is "war with Russia"

are you... taking an Econ 99 final?

Atrocious Joe
Sep 2, 2011

Why does the USS Carney have a Norse flag
https://twitter.com/CENTCOM/status/1789698310342636002?t=co4gmuJyDvleeUYo1GMwog&s=19

DickParasite
Dec 2, 2004


Slippery Tilde

CN CREW-VESSEL posted:

I am slowly becoming the joker because of this web module I have to do this week











But imagine it's a tank, and the big assignment is "war with Russia"

I will pay 1E10 dollars for a cup of coffee.

CN CREW-VESSEL
Feb 1, 2024

敌人磨刀我们也磨刀

sum posted:

It's kind of funny to come up with a mathematical model of economic activity by massively simplifying human behavior, and then quiz people's "understanding of economics" by how they say their behavior would match their model. And they call Marxists unscientific!

I'm losing my mind.

Muscle Tracer posted:

are you... taking an Econ 99 final?

It's considered professional development to gain defence spending expertise, which of course has to be quantified in some credential, so I had to take a loving e-module on Econ.

KomradeX
Oct 29, 2011


That's the least rusty navy ship to be seen in this thread like ever

jetz0r
May 10, 2003

Tomorrow, our nation will sit on the throne of the world. This is not a figment of the imagination, but a fact. Tomorrow we will lead the world, Allah willing.



DickParasite posted:

I will pay 1E10 dollars for a cup of coffee.

i will pay -999999999999 dollars for a cup of coffee

TeenageArchipelago
Jul 23, 2013


Regarde Aduck posted:

there's also a point where this just becomes ww 3 and everything that means

i don't think they realise that the west is playing a really dumb game of chicken right now and isn't actually committed to total war

I'm not sure that western planners remember that they're supposed to be playing a really dumb and brutal game of chicken.

zetamind2000
Nov 6, 2007

I'm an alien.

Bar Crow posted:

Specifying that Europe, not NATO, should be fed into the chipper shredder.

time for austria, ireland, and switzerland to pay their dues

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007
there are presumably some left who realize it is all a farce to maintain domestic control and make the number go up. i don't think they have any veto power over the true believers any more, though.

poisonpill
Nov 8, 2009

The only way to get huge fast is to insult a passing witch and hope she curses you with Beast-strength.


you stated that you would spend no more than $60,000,000 for a fighter plane.

Let’s see if your choice will change under a given scenario.

Imagine you are fighting WWIII against an industrial powerhouse that is producing more fifth generation fighter jets per month than you have in the last three years. The only company making jets that you can buy is Lockheed Martin, but they are selling them for $109,000,000 per unit. You need more planes to survive the coming battle.

How much are you willing to spend on a fighter jet?

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

Gripweed posted:

It's like that joke of walking past a business class and seeing the professor write "Profits=income-costs" on the whiteboard and all the students diligently taking notes.

lmao yeah it's precisely this

Nix Panicus
Feb 25, 2007

Muscle Tracer posted:

are you... taking an Econ 99 final?

Higher level econ doesnt get any better, it just adds a lot of graphs, pseudo scientific 'formulas', and linear regressions to take twenty pages to come to equally facile conclusions. Liberal economics settles for wearing the clothing of physics, but it desperately wants to be mathematics and free itself entirely from the anchors of observation and experimentation

Pidgin Englishman
Apr 30, 2007

If you shoot
you better hit your mark

poisonpill posted:

you stated that you would spend no more than $60,000,000 for a fighter plane.

Let’s see if your choice will change under a given scenario.

Imagine you are fighting WWIII against an industrial powerhouse that is producing more fifth generation fighter jets per month than you have in the last three years. The only company making jets that you can buy is Lockheed Martin, but they are selling them for $109,000,000 per unit. You need more planes to survive the coming battle.

How much are you willing to spend on a fighter jet?

You answered yes, even though $116,000,000 per unit is quite a lot more than $60,000,000. Think about what might have changed you purchasing decision.

Interesting, under the right circumstances it appears you'd be willing to pay more for for a fifth generation fighter jet than you previously stated. What you're willing to pay now is $134,000,000 per unit.

You have now explored cost benefit and understand that your decisions may change if circumstances change, hence your willingness to pay $148,000,000 per unit.



How much are you willing to spend on a submarine?

Car Hater
May 7, 2007

wolf. bike.
Wolf. Bike.
Wolf! Bike!
WolfBike!
WolfBike!
ARROOOOOO!

poisonpill posted:

you stated that you would spend no more than $60,000,000 for a fighter plane.

Let’s see if your choice will change under a given scenario.

Imagine you are fighting WWIII against an industrial powerhouse that is producing more fifth generation fighter jets per month than you have in the last three years. The only company making jets that you can buy is Lockheed Martin, but they are selling them for $109,000,000 per unit. You need more planes to survive the coming battle.

How much are you willing to spend on a fighter jet?

I cut out the middleman by paying my enemies to lose. Promotion time baby!

sullat
Jan 9, 2012

Car Hater posted:

I cut out the middleman by paying my enemies to lose. Promotion time baby!

Ah yes, the ancient Chinese strategy of bribing enemy generals to surrender and then massacring their armies.

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

Nix Panicus posted:

Higher level econ doesnt get any better, it just adds a lot of graphs, pseudo scientific 'formulas', and linear regressions to take twenty pages to come to equally facile conclusions. Liberal economics settles for wearing the clothing of physics, but it desperately wants to be mathematics and free itself entirely from the anchors of observation and experimentation

say what you will about econ, but my econ 101 professor accidentally turned young me into a communist by introducing me to the concept of marginal utility. he didn't come to the same conclusions that i did!

Nix Panicus
Feb 25, 2007

Yeah, marginal utility being a perfect justification to confiscate excessive wealth to benefit society while causing very little real harm is not an argument econ professors like to hear, so the following units are always about 'dead weight losses' from government inefficiency and wealth as incentive to create jobs

E: my favorite bit was a unit on insurance, where we learned to calculate the 'risk premium' a person was willing to pay based on their 'revealed preferences' for insurance costs compared to the insurers known costs. The idea that huge disparities in information (I can at best guess my future health needs, and I have little to no information on how much treatment costs vs insurers employing vast teams of people to create actuarial tables and negotiate prices in advance) or limited options for insurance might invalidate the 'rationality' of the choice were just never addressed! Every person knows their own risk function, and questioning the validity of that statement questions the principle of individual freedom and right to choose!

Nix Panicus has issued a correction as of 04:20 on May 13, 2024

Gripweed
Nov 8, 2018

sullat posted:

Ah yes, the ancient Chinese strategy of bribing enemy generals to surrender and then massacring their armies.

China could probably guarantee no war with the US ever if they started giving cushy high-paying no-work gigs to retired US officers.

ModernMajorGeneral
Jun 25, 2010

Gripweed posted:

China could probably guarantee no war with the US ever if they started giving cushy high-paying no-work gigs to retired US officers.

This already happens now and then and the USA is wise to it being a problem, so anyone who takes it up is made an example of.


quote:

SYDNEY, May 12 (Reuters) - A former U.S. Marine pilot, fighting extradition from Australia on U.S. charges of training Chinese military pilots to land on aircraft carriers, unknowingly worked with a Chinese hacker, his lawyer said.

Daniel Duggan, 55, a naturalised Australian citizen, also feared requests by Western intelligence agencies for sensitive information were putting his family at risk, the lawyer said in a legal filing seen by Reuters.

The lawyer's filing supports Reuters reporting linking Duggan to convicted Chinese defence hacker Su Bin.

Duggan denies allegations that he broke U.S. arms control laws. He has been in an Australian maximum security prison since his 2022 arrest after returning from six years working in Beijing.

Best Friends
Nov 4, 2011

a thing about Econ that pushed me very left from where I was, was realizing that the perfect efficient market we’re all supposedly moving towards - economist heaven - is a nightmare. Every single person spends every day choosing between working for just enough to live, or choosing to starve to death. there’s a lot about economics that’s ridiculous, but if you take all of it as an axiom and work with its assumptions, it wants the perfectly efficient market. where everything and everyone has a price, and that price is only infinitesimally higher than the price of saying gently caress it, just kill me. liberal economics spends a lot of time talking about rising tides and all that, but you work through the blueprints and it very explicitly is trying to build the worst possible future.

bedpan
Apr 23, 2008

Best Friends posted:

a thing about Econ that pushed me very left from where I was, was realizing that the perfect efficient market we’re all supposedly moving towards - economist heaven - is a nightmare. Every single person spends every day choosing between working for just enough to live, or choosing to starve to death. there’s a lot about economics that’s ridiculous, but if you take all of it as an axiom and work with its assumptions, it wants the perfectly efficient market. where everything and everyone has a price, and that price is only infinitesimally higher than the price of saying gently caress it, just kill me. liberal economics spends a lot of time talking about rising tides and all that, but you work through the blueprints and it very explicitly is trying to build the worst possible future.

the tide is rising and you are lashed to the pier

Ardent Communist
Oct 17, 2010

ALLAH! MU'AMMAR! LIBYA WA BAS!
can also confirm a standard liberal education in economics converted me into a communist. it's so obviously all bs, so the smallest amount of empathy and you just know it's all justification for an unfair society.
history always is a good cure to the standard brainwashing, if you actually do some of your own reading. i find military history is actually better for this because at least until recently, people knew you'd only look good as a winner if you made your opponent look skilled or brave. so there was more of a fair analysis. plus results tend to speak for themselves.

dads friend steve
Dec 24, 2004

I’m glad the Canadian army guy has to melt his brain on inane Econ 101 horseshit

Kitfox88
Aug 21, 2007

Anybody lose their glasses?

we couldn't mobilize the country to sit on our asses and watch netflix while a hyper infectious disease killed 9/11s worth of citizenry every day but yeah sure we'd all form a star spangled voltron of patriotism to wage total absolute war on multiple fronts while quality of life dropped even faster than it already does

Kitfox88 has issued a correction as of 06:20 on May 13, 2024

dads friend steve
Dec 24, 2004

for a couple weeks right when COVID hit it was hard to get paper towels, at least where I am, and people were losing their poo poo. the ports were all hosed up for months. everything being just-in-time meant things were randomly out of stock and you didn’t know when they’d be back. people legitimately didn’t know how to function under the mildest of deprivation and that was when everyone wanted stuff to start flowing again.

the consequences of an actual war with China, hot or trade, would be unfathomable for a lot of people.

Clip-On Fedora
Feb 20, 2011


I feel like you would need a New Deal or at least some sort of a Great Society to pull this off, but I don't think we have either of those things

Jon Pod Van Damm
Apr 6, 2009

THE POSSESSION OF WEALTH IS IN AND OF ITSELF A SIGN OF POOR VIRTUE. AS SUCH:
1 NEVER TRUST ANY RICH PERSON.
2 NEVER HIRE ANY RICH PERSON.
BY RULE 1, IT IS APPROPRIATE TO PRESUME THAT ALL DEGREES AND CREDENTIALS HELD BY A WEALTHY PERSON ARE FRAUDULENT. THIS JUSTIFIES RULE 2--RULE 1 NEEDS NO JUSTIFIC



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdtY14DbASU

KomradeX
Oct 29, 2011

Clip-On Fedora posted:

I feel like you would need a New Deal or at least some sort of a Great Society to pull this off, but I don't think we have either of those things

Youd need an industrial base for that

DickParasite
Dec 2, 2004


Slippery Tilde

KomradeX posted:

Youd need an industrial base for that

I look at modern Western nations and genuinely don't understand how anyone could think they're capable of fighting a conventional war.

Nix Panicus
Feb 25, 2007

Marines are only 50 minerals, and if you need more you can just build a bunch of barracks with reactors.

KomradeX
Oct 29, 2011

DickParasite posted:

I look at modern Western nations and genuinely don't understand how anyone could think they're capable of fighting a conventional war.

Lots of propaganda. 10 years ago I thought that while we were seeing the beginning of l the ene of American military dominance we were still decades away from it passing, and well a decade later the US Navy has been defeated by a nation without a blue water navy

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Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler

Nix Panicus posted:


E: my favorite bit was a unit on insurance, where we learned to calculate the 'risk premium' a person was willing to pay based on their 'revealed preferences' for insurance costs compared to the insurers known costs. The idea that huge disparities in information (I can at best guess my future health needs, and I have little to no information on how much treatment costs vs insurers employing vast teams of people to create actuarial tables and negotiate prices in advance) or limited options for insurance might invalidate the 'rationality' of the choice were just never addressed! Every person knows their own risk function, and questioning the validity of that statement questions the principle of individual freedom and right to choose!

There was a really good UK-focused study on this:

https://www.bi.team/publications/the-shrouded-economy/

It points out that, while we expect ordinary people to intelligently choose goods and services, insurance, energy suppliers etc based on selecting the option that provides the best service for the most cost-effective price, most people are incapable of doing this. Even where suppliers aren't deliberately making it difficult to compare their offerings (over-complex products, withholding information etc), most people just don't have the time or the maths and comprehension skills to make these sort of decisions.

quote:

Across the economy, consumers struggle to tell the difference between good and bad products. Critical information, from price to quality, is either missing, hard to access, or hard to compare. The markets are ‘shrouded’.

This has obvious costs for consumers, but the effects on the economy run much deeper. If consumers cannot identify the best products and services, firms have no incentive to
compete on quality, stifling innovation. The most productive firms, who can offer the best products and services, struggle to differentiate themselves and grow, stifling productivity growth. And when the shrouded market itself is designed to increase productivity – such as markets for business advice and services – the inability to distinguish good providers makes the difference between services that deliver large productivity improvements, and a regrettable expenditure.

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