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SirPhoebos posted:There's a side-quest in Elpis that involves flowers that temper animals as a defense mechanism. Don't worry, instead we just got normal flowers that attach themselves to bears to control them like parasitic fungi. (See: Saint Mocianne's Arboretum)
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May 11, 2022 18:35
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DanielCross posted:Emet-Selch does not outright lie to the party once during all of Shadowbringers, he makes misleading-but-still technically-true statements at worst, so this makes no sense as an assertion when coming to him saying he's tempered. Everything Emet-Selch says comes with a huge slice of bias. According to him, murdering you doesn't count because you aren't a real person, and anyway, he's absolutely not responsible for his actions because he's like, super-tempered. Livingway, meanwhile, says that Zodiark, being correctly-constructed by someone who knew what he was doing, might temper somebody a little bit, but honestly, hardly at all. Is Emet-Selch overstating his tempering to ease his conscience? Is Livingway being overly-blithe about horrible danger? It is ambiguous.
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May 11, 2022 21:11
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He never says he's "super-tempered." He says he's tempered and makes no clarification. Biased as he is, he's never caught in a lie.
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May 11, 2022 21:14
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I basically agree that the easiest way to weave through the shaky evidence is with the claim that the convocation were mildly tempered, and that that tempering resulted in them being inclined to use Zodiark to solve all their problems, but left them essentially unchanged other than that it's not quite textual but both extremes of "they aren't tempered at all" and "they're fully mind-controlled" are pretty clearly counter-textual imo
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May 11, 2022 21:19
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cheetah7071 posted:I basically agree that the easiest way to weave through the shaky evidence is with the claim that the convocation were mildly tempered, and that that tempering resulted in them being inclined to use Zodiark to solve all their problems, but left them essentially unchanged other than that This makes the most sense with the narrative as well. Emet-Selch is possessed of the same flaw as the rest of his people: He was unable to cope with actual, horrible trauma when confronted with it and fell apart. Because their great blessings insulated them from any hardship other than Actual World Destruction.
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May 12, 2022 04:16
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One thing I've been wondering about, is where do the thirteen shards exist in the wider cosmos? I somehow doubt that Venat created thirteen whole other physical universes when she sundered the world. Do they just exist in little cosmic snowglobes, cut off from the rest of reality, or if you were to somehow escape the First's surface would you end up orbiting the Source? I should probably stop thinking about this before I give myself a headache.
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May 12, 2022 04:29
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Bloody Pom posted:One thing I've been wondering about, is where do the thirteen shards exist in the wider cosmos? I somehow doubt that Venat created thirteen whole other physical universes when she sundered the world. Do they just exist in little cosmic snowglobes, cut off from the rest of reality, or if you were to somehow escape the First's surface would you end up orbiting the Source? They exist in the same space, probably cut off from the outside.
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May 12, 2022 04:30
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Its further complicated by the existence of the rift, which is the space between dimensions
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May 12, 2022 04:30
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It seems like the Source exists from the perspective of the physical universe beyond, but the Shards can be accessed once you have arrived AT the Source. Considering that they each have an elemental affinity, we can probably guess this has to do with however different aether aspecting works. Maybe it's like the old DnD model of different planes of existence existing at different vibrational frequencies?
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May 12, 2022 04:36
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I'm not sure if it'd be funny or depressing if one of the shards managed to reach technological parity with the Allagans, and attempted to explore space/fly to the moon only to bonk off of the 'skybox'.
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May 12, 2022 04:37
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Bloody Pom posted:I'm not sure if it'd be funny or depressing if one of the shards managed to reach technological parity with the Allagans, and attempted to explore space/fly to the moon only to bonk off of the 'skybox'. I get the feeling that if they went out past the 'skybox' they'd just end up in the real universe, but if they went back their aetheric signature would mean they head back to their homeland.
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May 12, 2022 04:41
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Bloody Pom posted:I'm not sure if it'd be funny or depressing if one of the shards managed to reach technological parity with the Allagans, and attempted to explore space/fly to the moon only to bonk off of the 'skybox'. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gn5kuDdeGzs
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May 12, 2022 04:45
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did they say they're envisioning 6.1 as the start of a hypothetical post-zodiark/hydaelyn saga onboarding? or was that supposition?
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May 12, 2022 04:56
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Valentin posted:did they say they're envisioning 6.1 as the start of a hypothetical post-zodiark/hydaelyn saga onboarding? or was that supposition? Yoshi-P said that. Not the near future, but it was designed with the idea that it could be a starting point somewhere down the line. That's why you go visiting everyone to get backstory and fill out your encyclopedia.
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May 12, 2022 04:59
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Commander Data would explain that the planet has multiple pocket dimensions occupying the same physical space, but shifted out of phase and unable to interact with this reality. The civilizations appear to be mostly pre-industrial, but there are extensive technological ruins and evidence of massive natural disasters. Recommend leaving a probe in orbit to study the phenomenon.
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May 12, 2022 05:00
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There is the fact that the YoRHa stuff manifested on the First and not the Source. Crossover or no, it's treated as having happened in XIV. Though even more dimensional shenanigans seem involved there so it's not necessarily a point against a "if someone approached the weird Sundered Worlds bubble from outside they'd reach the Source" hypothesis.
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May 12, 2022 05:44
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aren't a lot of people opposed to the idea of XIV being a theme park of other SE IPs?
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May 12, 2022 06:31
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Hogama posted:There is the fact that the YoRHa stuff manifested on the First and not the Source. Crossover or no, it's treated as having happened in XIV. We know if you approach from outside you get to the Source, because the Midgarsormr and Omega did exactly that.
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May 12, 2022 06:51
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Qwertycoatl posted:We know if you approach from outside you get to the Source, because the Midgarsormr and Omega did exactly that. And, for that matter, Ultima. But The Grotesqueries came from somewhere beyond the Rift, most likely, using the Crystal Tower as a target.
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May 12, 2022 06:57
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Gearhead posted:And, for that matter, Ultima. The Machine Network were replicating the Grotesqueries and their methods, but it was still actually the Machine Network, not the real Watchers/Grotesqueries. The White Orb/Seed was a copy of the ones from Drakengard made by the Machine Network, not the same thing.
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May 12, 2022 07:23
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Lord_Magmar posted:The White Orb/Seed was a copy of the ones from Drakengard made by the Machine Network, not the same thing. Small mercies and all that, I suppose. Still just waiting for another goddamn space monster though.
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May 12, 2022 22:35
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Also wasn't there something in the Nier plot that suggested the invaders were aligned towards light? Or did I read that in myself in the haze of doing the raids? Because that could play into the aether alignment hypothesis and why they ended up tethering to the First--their relative stasis suggests their aether is heavily light aspected leaving them on the same 'phase' as the First.
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May 12, 2022 23:18
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the phase transition has the boss say 'let the light in' but its lower case light and not Light
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May 12, 2022 23:25
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Yeah that seems more nier aesthetic than primordial force of umbral stasis.
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May 12, 2022 23:26
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This talk of the Nier raids is reminding me that I need to do Puppets' Bunker some more, so that I can get the fending coat for my planned Vash the Stampede GNB glam.
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May 12, 2022 23:34
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Yeah that seems more nier aesthetic than primordial force of umbral stasis. My point being that when they come to FFXIV, that's what they align to. My short stint in Nier (I've barely touched it) makes me think it is a very static world. Whatever crossover magic justifies them being in FFXIV makes me think that's what they'd align to.
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May 12, 2022 23:43
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Bruceski posted:Yoshi-P said that. Not the near future, but it was designed with the idea that it could be a starting point somewhere down the line. That's why you go visiting everyone to get backstory and fill out your encyclopedia. If that's true i think they did a pretty terrible job. If you start the game and the first thing you do is the 6.1 MSQ it would be an awful experience with you going round chilling with random NPCs you don't know and all the boring conversations about the dragon kid and his sister. Even as someone who knew the characters and what they were talking about it dragged on a bit.
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May 13, 2022 01:07
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6.1 as is would not at all be an effective intro I think, though to be fair it's not up against very strong competition versus early ARR either. If they're expecting people to not be confused and get caught up to speed with the encyclopedia thing that fills out as you do 6.1, that does seem like a dim hope because I think many people will tune out when the first thing they see is a minutiae filled 10 paragraph essay about tataru. I guess at least it's very a very honest vertical slice of what the modern MSQ is often like (going around and asking people for their opinions and/or help about politics and science problems). My feeling is they would almost have to add some kind of other new starting experience preceding it, at least
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May 13, 2022 01:24
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i would think 6.1 encyclopedia entries are for existing players to implement and test the feature and the proper ‘prologue’ if theyre onboarding people at 7.0 would either be in 7.0 itself or the last patch before it. and then they just give people the encyclopedia entries if they dont already have them
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May 13, 2022 02:01
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I have to imagine that any hypothetical start-at-90 feature would have some sort of onramp for new players to at least get used to the system. Presumably it could be a story tutorial that also gives you what you need to know to get going, as well
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May 13, 2022 02:03
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My pitch for an onboarding point would be 7.0, assuming we are headed to Mercydia or the New World. Start the story with getting ship-wrecked, and if you are starting fresh then you have anime-style amnesia. And once you finish 7.0 this onboarded WoL gets enough memories back that you don't have to write two scripts going further (and if they want to explore older content in greater detail, that can be presented as further memory restoration).
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May 13, 2022 02:22
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SirPhoebos posted:My pitch for an onboarding point would be 7.0, assuming we are headed to Mercydia or the New World. Start the story with getting ship-wrecked, and if you are starting fresh then you have anime-style amnesia. And once you finish 7.0 this onboarded WoL gets enough memories back that you don't have to write two scripts going further (and if they want to explore older content in greater detail, that can be presented as further memory restoration). Also your character will be required to be red-haired and play paladin.
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May 13, 2022 02:28
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I thought Emet-Selch said the fact that Zodiark Tempered him is probably why he can't adapt to the changes in the world and change his mind.
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May 13, 2022 06:10
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Warmachine posted:My point being that when they come to FFXIV, that's what they align to. My short stint in Nier (I've barely touched it) makes me think it is a very static world. Whatever crossover magic justifies them being in FFXIV makes me think that's what they'd align to. I don't think any of the crossover stuff really "aligns" to anything because none of them are aether-based lifeforms.
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May 13, 2022 07:56
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The Nier crossover was stupid and I hope they never try to tie it into the "canon" and leave it as it is.
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May 13, 2022 12:58
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Ibram Gaunt posted:The Nier crossover was stupid and I hope they never try to tie it into the "canon" and leave it as it is. It was a bunch of fun actually, but also mostly it added lore for Nier whilst being a nice story about the dwarves for FFXIV. Well a "nice" story.
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May 13, 2022 13:12
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That scene where the fake YorHa blow up the dwarf village feels so bizarre to me.
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May 13, 2022 14:14
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Lord_Magmar posted:It was a bunch of fun actually, but also mostly it added lore for Nier whilst being a nice story about the dwarves for FFXIV. Well a "nice" story. I thought the raids themselves were fun and even though I didn't really care for the metanarrative or the dwarf stuff much I don't mind that it exists, I just don't really want them to try to tie the Nier poo poo into the cosmology on any deeper level. Like just leave it alone imo.
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May 13, 2022 14:25
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I feel like the expectations of the Nier raids were broken by expectations of modern audiences when they hear 'crossover'. The MCU has kinda trained people to think crossovers are a big narrative deal; 'Iron Man and Captain America are in this one, it must be important'. The Nier raids are more like older crossovers you'd see, where there's nothing necessarily all that special about it to the characters involved, they just happen to be two different groups crossing paths while doing their individual thing. To them it's just a 'two ships in the night' thing, it's only important to us because we know both their journeys.
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May 13, 2022 14:35
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Cleretic posted:I feel like the expectations of the Nier raids were broken by expectations of modern audiences when they hear 'crossover'. The MCU has kinda trained people to think crossovers are a big narrative deal; 'Iron Man and Captain America are in this one, it must be important'. Ah yes - the Scooby Doo principle
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May 13, 2022 14:37
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