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Jack Gladney posted:This was the game where you play as a human man and your only sidekick choices ("team") are a dog, a horse, a robot, and a woman? Can you see how these are not comparable cases? Bakeneko fucked around with this message at 09:27 on Apr 28, 2017 |
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Apr 28, 2017 09:25
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Bakeneko posted:I don't see how this refutes my point at all. The video implied that Quiet was another example of the "useless damsel" character who the player had to protect, but this isn't the case. She fights alongside Snake rather than just doing odd tasks like picking locks, and she's basically invincible during normal gameplay so you don't have to protect her. Just like the horse would do?
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Apr 28, 2017 09:28
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Jack Gladney posted:Just like the horse would do? Unless there's a way I don't know about of making the horse pick up a rifle and fight, no, they aren't the same. (although it is a Kojima game so who knows?) KayTee posted:Yes. Quiet does not need a manly man to protect her from the scary people. She does, however, perform tasks on demand and stays out of sight (literally) to minimalist her inconveniencing of the male main character.
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Apr 28, 2017 09:32
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Bakeneko posted:How would you change her role in the game, then? I mean, aside from putting her in a non-humiliating outfit which I think we can all agree is a good idea. I'd have her act indipendantly. You want sniper support - you attack in a way that uses it. She moves to the best spot and advises you of her position and cover range allowing you to work as a team. She can advise on optimal approaches and call you an idiot when you charge in with a bazooka. You know. Like a teammate. As a suggestion. So long as we're answering all new questions instead of admitting that you've gotten target-locked on a single facet rather than observing the whole argument.
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Apr 28, 2017 09:51
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Man, it's a videogame. Of course the main character is gonna do all the fun poo poo.
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Apr 28, 2017 09:59
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On that same sort of thought, characters who just critique you and then go "No I'm gonna do this instead" tend to get really grating, really quickly, no matter what or who they are. Also because that kind of thing is often used to mask the director going "No, you play the game like this" and it removes discovering fun emergent junk.
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Apr 28, 2017 10:17
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KayTee posted:I'd have her act indipendantly. You want sniper support - you attack in a way that uses it. She moves to the best spot and advises you of her position and cover range allowing you to work as a team. She can advise on optimal approaches and call you an idiot when you charge in with a bazooka. You know. Like a teammate. The problem with this idea is that it relies on the presence of an AI that can accurately judge what the player is thinking. A real teammate could do all of that because they have a real human brain; a more linear game could fake it using scripted events, but a sandbox like MGSV has to rely on some amount of direct player control because video game AI just isn't that good yet. The only other option would be to turn it into a co-op mode with another player controlling Quiet, which is a neat idea in theory but in practice almost nobody would use it because of how unreliable online co-op tends to be. And what exactly have I gotten “target-locked” on? I made a comment about one little part of the video, someone responded to my comment, and the discussion progressed from there. Most of the stuff in the video I didn't comment on because I thought it was fine.
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Apr 28, 2017 10:31
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Its a decent enough video, but I don't think there is a need to distinguish the Escorts by gender. The mechanic is usually a shitshow no matter the characters gender and no matter the main characters gender. This reminded me of a fun thing in Armored Core For Answer. You can get assistance on some missions from fellow mercenaries and if you're not the one doing the most damage and being the most active in said mission, you'll get chewed out and eventually abandoned because they don't feel like doing your job for you. That's something you don't see too often and I wish more games had that.
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Apr 28, 2017 11:25
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Archer666 posted:Its a decent enough video, but I don't think there is a need to distinguish the Escorts by gender. The mechanic is usually a shitshow no matter the characters gender and no matter the main characters gender. It's more an extension of the "All vidyagame protagonists are straight, white dudes" problem, how on the rare occasions that a female character does get to participate in gameplay, she's more likely than not to be relegated to a lovely sidekick role.
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Apr 28, 2017 11:55
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Bakeneko posted:Unless there's a way I don't know about of making the horse pick up a rifle and fight, no, they aren't the same. If you are able to play a video game where you play a human man and choose between teaming up with a dog and teaming up with a woman and you can play the game both ways, the video game equates the woman with the dog in a more fundamental way than it equates her with the human man. I'm not sure what part of the equation gets tricky.
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Apr 28, 2017 12:00
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I wish I was good enough to be equals with D-Dog
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Apr 28, 2017 12:07
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I think you can have female and animal party members without necessarily equating them as the same thing. I mean I only know quiet from reputation since I never played that game, but I think that things like the way the camera treats the character, or how their costume design betrays their intent to be jack off material is more valid than things like 'there is also a dog in the game' when it comes to finding the sexism.
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Apr 28, 2017 13:05
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Jack Gladney posted:If you are able to play a video game where you play a human man and choose between teaming up with a dog and teaming up with a woman and you can play the game both ways, the video game equates the woman with the dog in a more fundamental way than it equates her with the human man. I'm not sure what part of the equation gets tricky. or maybe the sidekick mechanics isn't that sophisticated enough. kinda a stretch to think the game is actively commenting that WOMEN IS THE SAME AS DOGS. Maybe if there's a male sidekick that plays differently than a female but there isn't.
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Apr 28, 2017 13:10
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Jack Gladney posted:If you are able to play a video game where you play a human man and choose between teaming up with a dog and teaming up with a woman and you can play the game both ways, the video game equates the woman with the dog in a more fundamental way than it equates her with the human man. I'm not sure what part of the equation gets tricky. You're reading too deeply into this. Alacron posted:It's more an extension of the "All vidyagame protagonists are straight, white dudes" problem, how on the rare occasions that a female character does get to participate in gameplay, she's more likely than not to be relegated to a lovely sidekick role. Fair enough. While I don't really agree with the first statement, even I noticed that AAA games lately have you play a father-ish role to (usually younger) female characters. Its weird.
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Apr 28, 2017 13:18
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Archer666 posted:You're reading too deeply into this. It's because a generation of gamers are growing up from horny, maladjusted teenagers to horny, maladjusted dads. Pretty simple, really.
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Apr 28, 2017 13:35
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That seems to be a weird trend in everything recently. Logan is the most recent thing that comes to mind but there's a fuckton of others that have been really noticeable.
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Apr 28, 2017 13:37
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The Deleter posted:That seems to be a weird trend in everything recently. Logan is the most recent thing that comes to mind but there's a fuckton of others that have been really noticeable. I'm not sure I'd put Logan in that trend, given that relationships like that have been Wolverine's schtick since pretty much day one.
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Apr 28, 2017 13:50
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Laura also took none of Logan's poo poo and did half his job for him at 11. Not to say the dynamic isn't overused (and done badly) to the point of cringe though, Naughty Dog in particular seems content to just lean on it until it's ground to dust. Playstation 4 fucked around with this message at 14:04 on Apr 28, 2017 |
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Apr 28, 2017 13:57
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Quiet's definitely a weird example of the useless sidekick role considering that you can just point at an enemy base and let her clean house
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Apr 28, 2017 15:00
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Archer666 posted:You're reading too deeply into this. What is your metric for reasonable analysis? Mine is that if there is a menu screen that rotates between a dog, a horse, and a woman and you can choose one to use to play the game, then the game understands them as more similar to each other than they are different from each other. Like it may not have been anyone's deliberate choice to equate a woman with an appliance or a dog, but the choice to build a game where there's a woman and a dog and you choose one to help you means that in the logic of the game the woman and the dog are more alike than different. Like how if you have the choice of a pen or a pencil to take notes, the pen and the pencil are both utensils that allow you to take notes even if they are not identical.
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Apr 28, 2017 16:45
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Arcsquad12 posted:When you find out why Quiet dresses the way she does you will feel ashamed of yourselves. Isn't the reason she dresses like she does is because she's a fictional character, and the series designer, who is in complete control of every aspect of this fictional world, is a horrific sexist pervert who wanted to jack off to cosplayers? lornekates fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Apr 28, 2017 |
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Apr 28, 2017 16:49
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lornekates posted:Isn't the reason she dresses like she does is because she's a fictional character, and the series designed, who is in complete control of every aspect of this fictional world, is a horrific sexist pervert who wanted to jack off to cosplayers? No it's because she breathes through her skin. Seriously. lmao
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Apr 28, 2017 16:57
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Archer666 posted:Fair enough. While I don't really agree with the first statement, even I noticed that AAA games lately have you play a father-ish role to (usually younger) female characters. Its weird. Bioshock (all of them), Last of Us, Walking Dead S1. Hmm. Though I will admit, when playing through Walking Dead S1-- it was in the middle of a years-long struggle with fertility issues. Playing as a father figure was-- cathartic? Therapeutic? Helpful, for sure. There certainly was no sexual anything between Lee and Clem, and Lee's role wasn't a "stand back helpless female SUPER MAN DUDE IS HERE". He was there to assist and guide Clem on her own journey, and teach an already capable child into becoming a fully functional and self-reliant adult. I played it right after Bioshock I and II, and the "father figure" role is VASTLY different. And given everything I was going through, it was very emotional and touching and I will freely admit brought me to tears more than once. ... Then I played Last of Us, enjoyed the game, but still wanted to choke Joel with his own selfishness (which I know was intentional and part of the story and all but still).
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Apr 28, 2017 17:00
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Augus posted:No it's because she breathes through her skin. And who made the decision to have her breath through her skin? Was it a Thermian?
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Apr 28, 2017 17:01
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Arcsquad12 posted:When you find out why Quiet dresses the way she does you will feel ashamed of yourselves. Source your quotes.
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Apr 28, 2017 17:01
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Ashamed of your words and deeds! Oh, Kojima. You can be so full of poo poo it's entertaining.
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Apr 28, 2017 17:03
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I never knew Kojima actually despised women and compares them to horses and dogs because his video game only lets you have 1 partner at a time.
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Apr 28, 2017 17:17
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Alacron posted:In which MovieBob discusses The Matrix, it's sequels, transgender readings, and redpillers. KayTee posted:Christ he is such an idiot. The fact that this JUST THAT GOOD series handles only popular, well-liked movies just cements it as breathless fanboyism. Maybe he has some points to make. I have no idea, I give up in minutes with these videos.
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Apr 28, 2017 17:43
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Augus posted:No it's because she breathes through her skin. The hilarious part is even the game itself can't keep that arguement with a straight face, because at one point she gets suffocated from wearing a prisoner jumpsuit after being captured... and all she needs is to lose the pants before she's back to peak superhuman. Which means she doesn't actually need all that much bare skin to breathe fine.
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Apr 28, 2017 17:50
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Neddy Seagoon posted:The hilarious part is even the game itself can't keep that arguement with a straight face, because at one point she gets suffocated from wearing a prisoner jumpsuit after being captured... and all she needs is to lose the pants before she's back to peak superhuman. Which means she doesn't actually need all that much bare skin to breathe fine. I'm pretty sure the reason she was suffocating was because someone was attempting to drown her. Edit: Actually, maybe you're right. I can't remember if her head was submerged or not. Metal Gear.
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Apr 28, 2017 17:56
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SleepCousinDeath posted:I'm pretty sure the reason she was suffocating was because someone was attempting to drown her. Nope, the clothes. Sticking her head in water does squat when she's breathing through her skin, and the moment her pants are off she gets murdery.
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Apr 28, 2017 17:59
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Yeah, that makes more sense. Eh, I still think Quiet is cool.
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Apr 28, 2017 18:00
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Nope, the clothes. Sticking her head in water does squat when she's breathing through her skin, and the moment her pants are off she gets murdery. Did The End breath in a similar way or am I thinking of a character that only exists in my head?
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Apr 28, 2017 18:03
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No the End was given the dignity of photosynthesizing through the leaves and moss growing on him and his clothing.
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Apr 28, 2017 18:11
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People focus on Quiet, but the real elephant in the room is Paz, aka the worst character in any video game ever. She's a child, but the games take every opportunity to sexualize her as they can. The first cutscene you're introduced to her, there's an easter egg where you can see through her clothes (and none of the guys', so you know it wasn't supposed to be a joke). You can go on a really creepy "date" with her (this time however you can choose to go on a date with a guy, though). The game makes a flimsy excuse to have her pilot a mech in her underwear. Don't worry though, she's actually 30, she just looks like a 12 year old! So it's totally okay! The villain captures her, and forces her and the boy she had formed a bond with to have sex, for no reason than to show how evil he is. Because of course we had to add rape. She is fridged solely to further Big Boss's angst. Said fridging involves putting a bomb in her torso, and then shoving another bomb inside her vagina, because why the gently caress not? So yeah, gently caress Kojima, he's a hack writer. I honestly can't blame any company for wanting to let him go.
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Apr 28, 2017 18:13
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lornekates posted:And who made the decision to have her breath through her skin? Was it a Thermian?
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Apr 28, 2017 18:14
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Quiet would've been much less creepy if she had been dressed like a marathon runner, and spoke Navajo from the start.
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Apr 28, 2017 18:16
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Kay Kessler posted:So yeah, gently caress Kojima, he's a hack writer. I honestly can't blame any company for wanting to let him go. He's somehow the biggest edgelord there ever was.
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Apr 28, 2017 18:18
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tbf Peace Walker is a weird game Like, it's where Big Boss and Miller get into fist fight while taking a shower together and Huey is the referee for the Mother Base football league.
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Apr 28, 2017 18:21
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Kay Kessler posted:People focus on Quiet, but the real elephant in the room is Paz, aka the worst character in any video game ever. Oh please it can't be that bad, let's just google this... 
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Apr 28, 2017 18:22
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