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Mana efficiency is a big part of what makes a spell good, which is why you should be using your level one spells a ton. Throw Flame is lousy because it costs twice as much mana as flame tongue but to my knowledge doesn't do anywhere near twice the damage. This is another reason why I don't like Ice for blaster starts; Your cheap bread&butter is melee range and your other damage spells are single target & expensive. I'd give more advice but I don't know which of the 7~ caster starts you are trying.
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Jan 4, 2016 05:01
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I die on casters all the time because I just get frustrated with running out of mana and pressing so many buttons and poo poo and I basically suicide. Like "oh, I have no more mana to kill this undead warrior with, well, I'd rather die meleeing him than continue doing this". Also I've been dying a lot lately because I take the risk of continuing fighting at like around 1/3rd HP and then get nuked by something that does 50+ damage when I never expect it.
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Jan 4, 2016 05:08
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True horror; going down the stairs and seeing 4 caustic shrikes when you have no corrosion resistance.
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Jan 4, 2016 05:58
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Floodkiller posted:E: Also you can't say you're an awfulplayer anymore, IronicDongz, your win percentage is now 1.10%. Yay! This makes me feel g HisMajestyBOB posted:And not all of my wins are Gr 
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Jan 4, 2016 17:32
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Darox posted:Mana efficiency is a big part of what makes a spell good, which is why you should be using your level one spells a ton. Throw Flame is lousy because it costs twice as much mana as flame tongue but to my knowledge doesn't do anywhere near twice the damage. This is another reason why I don't like Ice for blaster starts; Your cheap bread&butter is melee range and your other damage spells are single target & expensive. i feel like you're seriously underselling Throw Icicle here
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Jan 4, 2016 17:44
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Yeah, freeze is the most mana efficient level one spell unless you're double zapping groups of enemies with shock, which is dangerous play in itself, or kiting everything to death with sting, which is boring as hell. Throw icicle is also a rock solid single target nuke from the time you can cast it until the mid-late game. It's incredibly efficient and is probably the single most reliable attack spell in any of the starting books. That said, I agree IE doesn't play best as a straight blaster, it's best for hybrids. But I don't think pure blaster is really the best way to play a caster anyway. Being able to take a hit and deal damage without using MP makes being a caster a lot more enjoyable as well as much safer.
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Jan 4, 2016 17:57
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Heithinn Grasida posted:Yeah, freeze is the most mana efficient level one spell unless you're double zapping groups of enemies with shock, which is dangerous play in itself, or kiting everything to death with sting, which is boring as hell. quote:Throw icicle is also a rock solid single target nuke from the time you can cast it until the mid-late game. It's incredibly efficient and is probably the single most reliable attack spell in any of the starting books. IE's biggest fault is that it has no multitarget spells in its start book, but it's generally not that hard to get at least one of Freezing Cloud/Ozofridge/Bolt of Cold by midgame.
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Jan 4, 2016 18:11
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Hello thread - I think I've found a 0.17.0 bug (possibly a Gozag bug) : when you kill a dancing weapon, it doesn't drop itself so that you can pick it up. I spotted this in Elf 2, and I was worshipping Gozag. I can't seem to find any mention of this in the changelog, nor any mention on Mantis. Does anyone know if this is actually intended behaviour?
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Jan 4, 2016 18:13
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FnF posted:Hello thread - I think I've found a 0.17.0 bug (possibly a Gozag bug) : when you kill a dancing weapon, it doesn't drop itself so that you can pick it up. I spotted this in Elf 2, and I was worshipping Gozag. I can't seem to find any mention of this in the changelog, nor any mention on Mantis. Does it turn into a pile of gold, or just disappear? E: If they're just disappearing then it's definitely a bug. If they're turning into gold, then it's probably intended Gozag behavior, but I don't know for sure. Not My Leg fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 18:24
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What gods do you folks like for IE?
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Jan 4, 2016 18:44
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IronicDongz posted:
Hmm almost there 
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Jan 4, 2016 18:57
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FnF posted:Hello thread - I think I've found a 0.17.0 bug (possibly a Gozag bug) : when you kill a dancing weapon, it doesn't drop itself so that you can pick it up. I spotted this in Elf 2, and I was worshipping Gozag. I can't seem to find any mention of this in the changelog, nor any mention on Mantis. pretty sure this is working as intended. they turn into gold when you kill 'em, like all things killed with Gozag I am Otis posted:What gods do you folks like for IE? Vehumet to shoot for Glaciate quickly, personally, though i've gone the skald-y hybrid route with Ashenzari/whatever hybrid god of choice with some degree of success too
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Jan 4, 2016 19:01
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EightFlyingCars posted:Yeah I'm not itching to pick a fight with them or anything but I've already seen one hydra and that was just on Lair 1. I've got a few teleport scrolls to burn but I figured if I have to fight I might as well keep SOMETHING for it. A better option than 'fight a hydra with a spear' or 'teleport' is the powerful "walk away" spell, imho.
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Jan 4, 2016 19:03
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I am Otis posted:What gods do you folks like for IE? Vehemut for blaster. Ash for a hybrid. Chei for maximum chilling. Makhleb for a hybrid that's primarily melee (because if you're damaging primarily with spells you'll prefer Veh's mana regen). This isn't an exclusive list by any means. IE is a start that lends itself so well to hybridization that you can really worship just about anybody that fits the playstyle you want to go with (that doesn't have a restrictive casting penalty, like Pak).
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Jan 4, 2016 19:06
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My first "serious" / semi-successful caster: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/meatpath/meatpath.txt I was able to clear Lair relatively easily, but I haven't lucked out on gear at all. I somehow survived clearing Nessos and Maud in the same hallway back to back on D:13 (by the skin of my teeth), so I've been surprised at the power this character has. But, I really don't know what I'm doing when it comes to magic. I got charms up to cast Battlesphere, and I pushed Earth up enough to cast Iron Shot reliably. Got a gift from Sif that had Tornado in it (and also have a book of Air), so I'm training Air at the moment, but it feels all over the place. I also feel like I'm not very survivable right now, so I'm not sure if I should keep pushing in the Dungeon or try to do Orc. Any glaring problems with my build so far, or any major obvious things I'm screwing up as a caster?
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Jan 4, 2016 19:16
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PleasingFungus posted:A better option than 'fight a hydra with a spear' or 'teleport' is the powerful "walk away" spell, imho. Ya walk away to lair 8 then kill all the misc bs when you go back up and are stronger
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Jan 4, 2016 19:18
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IE of Qazlal is the choice for players who appreciate marching around in a giant cloud of ice and crushing everything alongside a horde of air elementals.
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Jan 4, 2016 19:21
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68k posted:My first "serious" / semi-successful caster: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/meatpath/meatpath.txt HI YOU KILLED MY GHOST I'm in a similar place myself, just finished Lair and could use some advice on what to do next: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Arivia/Arivia.txt This run has been kind of stupidly really weird, complete with no identify scrolls until D:5 and the last half of lair being literally full of death yaks. I killed 27. I know I missed some. Getting Bolt of Cold and Freezing Cloud was a huge power jump though, and I took down like a swarm of 20 yaks with a bunch of clouds and some sniping at the edges. I think this is working? Couple things I'm curious about : 1) Should I bother with getting an actual weapon going? The best one I've found is that morningstar of protection, which isn't great. 2) What about defenses? The robe I'm wearing gives me the best AC/EV, but I still feel like I'm made of paper. 3) So Vehumet gave me freezing cloud and bolt of cold, which I hear people talking up as good mid-game spells. Since I have the staff of cold, I figure that's where I'm headed. Any tips for using those two spells? (I feel like I can forget searing ray and ball lightning. picking the latter up was a mistake.) 4) Where should I be going next? Finish off Dungeon, then Orc? 5) And what about skilling? I was working on getting Stealth up to 11 since that seems to be a good baseline for a caster, I need to turn Conjurations back on, and what should I prioritize first out of Spellcasting/Dodging/Fighting/Ice Magic? I feel like I'm not at a comfortable level of power yet, especially with my new bread and butter spells of Freezing Cloud and Bolt of Cold.
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Jan 4, 2016 19:37
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Today I learned that mermen are jerks.
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Jan 4, 2016 19:43
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EightFlyingCars posted:Today I learned that mermen are jerks. Men are jerks. Mermen are no exception.
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Jan 4, 2016 19:44
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Aren't all the generic merfolk female now? I actually thought that was pretty neat since previously the enemies with distinguishable genders were male-looking unless the name implied they were female (like sirens).
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Jan 4, 2016 19:51
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Arivia posted:HI YOU KILLED MY GHOST Weapons are more of a nice thing to have than a necessity since you've built your skills towards full blaster. You don't have any buffs learned currently, you don't have any evocations so you can't even swing that staff of cold for decent damage, and you don't have any decent weapons lined up. That sounds like you're still well away from going hybrid. As for defenses, you could hunt down a shield for another layer, learn Ozo's Armour/Condensation Shield, or find a strong leather randart to replace the admittedly decent robe. More Fighting for the extra HP wouldn't hurt either. Freezing Cloud will flow to fill empty spaces, so be careful when you're using it close to yourself. If you want you can use the +Fog cloak to spawn a cloud underneath you and prevent a freezing cloud from expanding to you. Bolt of cold is strong for multi targetting but bear in mind that they can miss and can be blocked. They're best used against low-EV targets that aren't holding shields. Skill wise you're looking for what makes you stronger. Stealth isn't hugely necessary unless you're in specific places (Abyss is where I'll turn everything but Stealth off if I drop in there early) as your spells aren't loud and you can handle AOE pretty handily. Conjurations is at a good place and further investment there would be wasteful; you will gain more levels in the same amount of experience somewhere else. Since you've gone Ice Magic, that's where I'd focus on next. If you're running out of MP before finishing off a nasty target, I'd suggest skilling Spellcasting too. Not to mention the extra spell slots for utility spells you're missing like Blink. Dodge is fine as is where you're at but you could revisit it later on. And don't forget EVOCATIONS because having something when you're out of MP is a way of preserving your get-out-of-hell consumables. 68k posted:My first "serious" / semi-successful caster: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/meatpath/meatpath.txt Learning Tornado far before you're ever going to be successful casting it. Those spell slots could be used for easier utility spells. And then skilling towards it without having any spell to use in the interim from that spell school. You're accruing experience debt that won't solve killing things NOW, eventually leading to your death because you've got Tornado at 97% fail rate but not enough spell power from say Iron Shot to kill your doombringer. Learn Lightning Bolt instead and you've got a potential multi-target spell. NO EVOCATIONS, c'mon son.
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Jan 4, 2016 20:07
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cheetah7071 posted:Aren't all the generic merfolk female now? I actually thought that was pretty neat since previously the enemies with distinguishable genders were male-looking unless the name implied they were female (like sirens). While I was staring at the screen with two HP and surrounded by like five dudes while mesmerized, I noticed that the game uses the "it" pronoun for merpeople.
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Jan 4, 2016 20:21
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It actually uses "it" for all non-uniques I believe. I was referring to the new sprites though, which look female.
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Jan 4, 2016 20:25
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Crawl 0.17: Men are jerks. Mermen are no exception.
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Jan 4, 2016 20:30
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Locke Dunnegan posted:Crawl 0.17: Men are jerks. Mermen are no exception. to be totally fair we SHOULD kill all men
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Jan 4, 2016 20:47
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cheetah7071 posted:It actually uses "it" for all non-uniques I believe. I was referring to the new sprites though, which look female. there are a very tiny number of exceptions - e.g., harpies are female - but almost all non-unique monsters are referred to as neuter, yeah.
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Jan 4, 2016 20:56
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Occasionally I try to convince amethyst that they should use random genders for each individual intelligent creature - I know he was considering Spivaking them all, too.
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Jan 4, 2016 20:58
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FR: New class 'Menist'. Deals 1.5x damage to female enemies, 0.5 to male enemies. Starts with +1 Fedora but -15 Str
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Jan 4, 2016 21:12
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Arivia posted:1) Should I bother with getting an actual weapon going? The best one I've found is that morningstar of protection, which isn't great. If you can find a buckler or shield get that up and going (buckler would be preferable as it would require the least training). Staff weapons are one handed so there ain't no reason to get a little bit more defense going. Freezing Cloud drops a cloud of freezing vapors that can be spread out and used to great potential in a hallway. Bolt of Cold will pass through multiple targets, losing one range for each target it pierces. Play around with them to get the best feel. Go ahead and drop Ball Lightening if you do not have rElec. It will kill you. Use the levels off dropping it to get Repel Missiles, Regeneration, and Ozocubu's Armour if you have found their spell books. Do not bother getting more Charms and worry about their other schools as they will work well with your conjurations. You should be able to handle both the last floor of Dungeon or Orcish mines if you play it carefully. If you do Mines be careful for Sorcerers as they have a good chance of paralyzing you with your low MR. Skill wise I would probably turn back on Ice and get it to about 10-12 then take another look at where you're at. More fighting for more HP would not be a horrible thing to. Also the shield thing mentioned earlier. World Famous W fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 21:46
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Someone Awful! posted:pretty sure this is working as intended. [Dancing weapons] turn into gold when you kill 'em, like all things killed with Gozag Ah, that must have been a recent-ish change then. I'd just assumed dancing weapons were deliberately being treated differently. Fair enough, I guess that's reasonable. Thanks for the quick replies!
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Jan 4, 2016 21:48
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PleasingFungus posted:A better option than 'fight a hydra with a spear' or 'teleport' is the powerful "walk away" spell, imho. Okay but hydras have better-than-default land speed.
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Jan 4, 2016 21:55
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Ferrinus posted:Okay but hydras have better-than-default land speed.
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Jan 4, 2016 21:57
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Sage Grimm posted:Learning Tornado far before you're ever going to be successful casting it. Those spell slots could be used for easier utility spells. And then skilling towards it without having any spell to use in the interim from that spell school. You're accruing experience debt that won't solve killing things NOW, eventually leading to your death because you've got Tornado at 97% fail rate but not enough spell power from say Iron Shot to kill your doombringer. Learn Lightning Bolt instead and you've got a potential multi-target spell. Thanks for the tips. I definitely didn't know how far off I would be from being able to cast Tornado, so I amnesia'd it and learned Lightning Bolt (and Ball Lightning, which I might play around with, too). I'll come back to Tornado later, if I stay alive long enough. I was able to clear Orc with relative ease. Re: evocations: So, outside of being able to evoke wands more effectively, how important of a skill is it? Maybe I'm underestimating wands. But I thought the effect on total MP reserves defaulted to the highest skill you have between Spellcasting and Evocations, and since I have Spellcasting at 10, I had not thrown any into Evo yet. I did correct this, though, and got Evocations up to 5 in Orc. http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/meatpath/meatpath.txt
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Jan 4, 2016 22:02
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Ferrinus posted:Okay but hydras have better-than-default land speed. World Famous W posted:Hydras have 10 speed just as most other creatures. They do have a 6 in water though which is why Swamp can go belly up sometimes. Hydras were fast in very old versions of the game (and in the Nostalgia branch), but outside water, they're no faster than the average player. (To clarify W's post, they take 60% of the normal time to cross water, meaning they're 5/3 times as fast as normal players there - and even faster if you're slowed by the water.)
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Jan 4, 2016 22:13
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68k posted:Re: evocations: Evocations has relatively little effect on wand strength, and you're right wrt MP calculations. The only you're carrying that it'll really help with is that phial of floods, and that's not enough reason to put too much xp into it yet. imho.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:15
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Evocations is a skill I ignore entirely until extended, usually. Wands aren't improved enough by it and everything else is super rare and/or difficult to use well in the earlier parts of the game. The biggest exception is when I find a ring/cloak of invisibility for a stealthy character and don't have the spell.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:34
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Darox posted:Evocations is a skill I ignore entirely until extended, usually. Wands aren't improved enough by it and everything else is super rare and/or difficult to use well in the earlier parts of the game. Wands of Cold / Draining / Fireball being less ridiculous early on in exchange for better scaling and a spellpower cap higher than 84 might be an interesting trade-off.
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Jan 4, 2016 23:12
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Darox posted:Evocations is a skill I ignore entirely until extended, usually. Wands aren't improved enough by it and everything else is super rare and/or difficult to use well in the earlier parts of the game. Lucky staff of energy or crystal ball you intend to use is also a good reason to train some evo.
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Jan 4, 2016 23:19
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A staff of energy maybe, but a crystal ball is dangerous at the best of times. Using it when your max MP pool is lower and you're less likely to have options to bail out when it screws you is worrisome. I'd rather stick to sublimation or regular mp conservation tactics.
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Jan 4, 2016 23:24
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